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MJ on Stealth in CU

TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless ColumnistM, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon

"Mark Jacobs: No final decision on our stealth-type classes has been made, mainly because we have a new mechanic to use for stealth that we want feedback from our backers on. What I can say though is that we will not have a class capable of going into stealth instantly, popping out, having a strong opener/long-range DD and then instantly popping right back in. Also, we want to include a scout class if we meet one of our stretch goals. It would be designed, as the name implies, to be very strong at scouting but not at long-range damage dealing."

That sounds like a good balanced approach to stealth in RVR.

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Comments

  • Plastic-MetalPlastic-Metal Highland Heights, KYPosts: 405Member

    In before haters begin to hate.

    I'm all in favor for a class that utilizes stealth because the mechanic itself isn't the problem - it's the massive front load damage that's the primary issue.

    My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.

    image

  • fanglofanglo Virginia, VAPosts: 290Member

    Ya I'm glad someone asked that question :p

     

    I healed Mistwraith and all I got was this stupid tee-shirt!

  • MarkJacobsMarkJacobs CEO City State Entertainment Fairfax, VAPosts: 468Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Xobdnas

    "Mark Jacobs: No final decision on our stealth-type classes has been made, mainly because we have a new mechanic to use for stealth that we want feedback from our backers on. What I can say though is that we will not have a class capable of going into stealth instantly, popping out, having a strong opener/long-range DD and then instantly popping right back in. Also, we want to include a scout class if we meet one of our stretch goals. It would be designed, as the name implies, to be very strong at scouting but not at long-range damage dealing."

    That sounds like a good balanced approach to stealth in RVR.

    I've said that here first. :)

     

    Mark Jacobs
    CEO, City State Entertainment

  • SinsaiSinsai Reno, NVPosts: 236Member Uncommon

    Nice to hear Mark.

    I'm looking forward to seeing how it's implemented. :)

    image

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,998Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    Originally posted by Xobdnas

    "Mark Jacobs: No final decision on our stealth-type classes has been made, mainly because we have a new mechanic to use for stealth that we want feedback from our backers on. What I can say though is that we will not have a class capable of going into stealth instantly, popping out, having a strong opener/long-range DD and then instantly popping right back in. Also, we want to include a scout class if we meet one of our stretch goals. It would be designed, as the name implies, to be very strong at scouting but not at long-range damage dealing."

    That sounds like a good balanced approach to stealth in RVR.

    I've said that here first. :)

     

    That's the one thing I'd like to see changed from recent titles, once you come out of stealth, there's no going back in, no escape, you fight to the death like the rest of the visible classes have to, or escape while visible to all through some other mechanism.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
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  • TumblebutzTumblebutz Henderson, NVPosts: 322Member
    Nice!  Can't wait to hear more about it.

    Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival

    RED IS DEAD!

  • MortifyMortify None of your BusinessPosts: 95Member

    That sounds like a melee DPS with stealth. Fine with me.

    What i would not want to see is a wet-towel-with-stealh class.

    In DAoC i thoroughly enjoyed all sides of the rock-paper-scissors-lizard-spock system (see my sig), casters would always complain about assassins/archers, and assassins/archers would always complain about stun-nuke-nuke-nuke-dead.

    So what i sort of understand from MJ's story is that a CU scout would be (in daoc terms) a mercenary with stealth?

     

     

    Methos, Armsman, EU Excalibur
    Jager, Infiltrator, EU Excalibur
    Phos, Cleric, EU Excalibur
    Mortify, Sorcerer, EU Excalibur

  • VargurVargur OsloPosts: 143Member
    Originally posted by Xobdnas

    "Mark Jacobs: No final decision on our stealth-type classes has been made, mainly because we have a new mechanic to use for stealth that we want feedback from our backers on. What I can say though is that we will not have a class capable of going into stealth instantly, popping out, having a strong opener/long-range DD and then instantly popping right back in. Also, we want to include a scout class if we meet one of our stretch goals. It would be designed, as the name implies, to be very strong at scouting but not at long-range damage dealing."

    That sounds like a good balanced approach to stealth in RVR.

    Sounds like an assassin-type character without the strong opener. Hopefully they will get decent dps, so the class becomes playable in a group and not just a loner roaming to scout for their realm without hope of fighting anyone but other scouts.

    Question that rises from this is if there is room for an archer-type class in this game? Maybe they lose stealth but receives dps+utility ala a caster?

  • fanglofanglo Virginia, VAPosts: 290Member
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    Originally posted by Xobdnas

    "Mark Jacobs: No final decision on our stealth-type classes has been made, mainly because we have a new mechanic to use for stealth that we want feedback from our backers on. What I can say though is that we will not have a class capable of going into stealth instantly, popping out, having a strong opener/long-range DD and then instantly popping right back in. Also, we want to include a scout class if we meet one of our stretch goals. It would be designed, as the name implies, to be very strong at scouting but not at long-range damage dealing."

    That sounds like a good balanced approach to stealth in RVR.

    I've said that here first. :)

     

    That's the one thing I'd like to see changed from recent titles, once you come out of stealth, there's no going back in, no escape, you fight to the death like the rest of the visible classes have to, or escape while visible to all through some other mechanism.

     

    Just last week I was solo'ing on my Druid, a hunter pops on me so I pop my rr5 to stay alive, put my pet on him. I then insta root his pet and start chasing him down. I use my AoE Root to stop him, he purges, speed bursts I pop my arti speed burst but it's a bit slower (longer duration) if he didn't re-stealth I would have eventually caught up with him to finish him off. That fight I felt really cheated. This guy pops on me things go bad and he easily gets away. That should never happen, never. If you pop on me you start with the advantage, if I can overcome your advantage you shouldn't be able to get away so easily.

    I healed Mistwraith and all I got was this stupid tee-shirt!

  • time007time007 Houston, TXPosts: 490Member Uncommon

    Sounds like it won't be on a timer, so I'm happy.  haha i can't post anymore about it.  I'm drained from that 1000 page thread i had like 1.5 months ago.   Unless it for some reason it gets put on a timer in testing/beta, which would suck.  Which would then cause me to write a book on the subject to try to defend us.

     

    Any other DAOC stealthers feel like joining me in a toast though?  I'm happy with what i've heard so far.

    image
  • MortifyMortify None of your BusinessPosts: 95Member
    Originally posted by fanglo
    Just last week I was solo'ing on my Druid, a hunter pops on me so I pop my rr5 to stay alive, put my pet on him. I then insta root his pet and start chasing him down. I use my AoE Root to stop him, he purges, speed bursts I pop my arti speed burst but it's a bit slower (longer duration) if he didn't re-stealth I would have eventually caught up with him to finish him off. That fight I felt really cheated. This guy pops on me things go bad and he easily gets away. That should never happen, never. If you pop on me you start with the advantage, if I can overcome your advantage you shouldn't be able to get away so easily.

    He wouldn't be able to stealh if your pet is on him. Next time wait with insta root until he speedbursts. ;)

    I always hated when they tried to burst away from my infiltrator... but that's what crippling poisons were for ;)

    Methos, Armsman, EU Excalibur
    Jager, Infiltrator, EU Excalibur
    Phos, Cleric, EU Excalibur
    Mortify, Sorcerer, EU Excalibur

  • MarkJacobsMarkJacobs CEO City State Entertainment Fairfax, VAPosts: 468Member Uncommon

    Folks,

       Again, just keep in mind that I've been saying the same thing for weeks:

    1) No decision has/will be made until we can present our BSC mechanic to our backers.

    2) If we have stealthers, I'm not a fan of making them "invisiblilty on/invisibility off" + lots of powerful attacks.

    3) I love the idea of a pure scout class.

    4) Remember #1

    Mark

    Mark Jacobs
    CEO, City State Entertainment

  • OldskooOldskoo Minneapolis, MNPosts: 189Member
    Originally posted by Xobdnas

    "Mark Jacobs: No final decision on our stealth-type classes has been made, mainly because we have a new mechanic to use for stealth that we want feedback from our backers on. What I can say though is that we will not have a class capable of going into stealth instantly, popping out, having a strong opener/long-range DD and then instantly popping right back in. Also, we want to include a scout class if we meet one of our stretch goals. It would be designed, as the name implies, to be very strong at scouting but not at long-range damage dealing."

    That sounds like a good balanced approach to stealth in RVR.

     I for one enjoy stealth classes. As we discussed in another thread, I believe stealth classes could be dealt with differently than it has in the past if need be but, as a kid cutting my teeth on paper and pencil D&D back in the day, I became an adult who is most attracted to games that followed those old games core concepts. A rogue/theif class (along with healer, fighter, and wizard) were the primary roles in most groups I was a part of. While they may have less a role in an RvR game, a stealth class is something I still would like to see, even if it is in a different way than we have previously seen in other MMO's. 

     

    Simply a stealth class that can only hide in certain areas that aren't well lit (or in the bush) and can only move at a slower pace while stealthed is my preference. I don't have a problem with an opening hitter if its limited in damage (no one hitters) because this character is an opportunist by nature that can't stand up in a prolonged battle. I am ok with not allowing them to re-hide or stealth while engaged or being targeted and would avoid any type of ranged opener/big hit out of stealth. The stealth class brings an entire different unique element to gameplay that I believe should be done in a way that is acceptable, if possible, instead of avoided.  

     

    Either way, it's not a huge deal to me because I am not a die-hard rogue player. Mark is the one that has to deal with balancing, and other factors, that I (as someone who is not a developer) am likely not aware of. I will be interested in how they design a Scout class that is not a long range damage dealer while creating a role that is fun to play. 

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  • VargurVargur OsloPosts: 143Member
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs

    Folks,

       Again, just keep in mind that I've been saying the same thing for weeks:

    1) No decision has/will be made until we can present our BSC mechanic to our backers.

    2) If we have stealthers, I'm not a fan of making them "invisiblilty on/invisibility off" + lots of powerful attacks.

    3) I love the idea of a pure scout class.

    4) Remember #1

    Mark

    Which is why the stealth community will try to keep up the pressure until we (hopefully not) are eliminated.

    BTW, what is the BSC mechanic? I haven't come across that acronym before.

  • meddyckmeddyck Athens, GAPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Xobdnas

    "Mark Jacobs: No final decision on our stealth-type classes has been made, mainly because we have a new mechanic to use for stealth that we want feedback from our backers on. What I can say though is that we will not have a class capable of going into stealth instantly, popping out, having a strong opener/long-range DD and then instantly popping right back in. Also, we want to include a scout class if we meet one of our stretch goals. It would be designed, as the name implies, to be very strong at scouting but not at long-range damage dealing."

    That sounds like a good balanced approach to stealth in RVR.

    I'm perfectly fine with no high damage from stealth attacks.

    It sort of sounds like he is thinking along the same lines of the rogue class I had previously suggested except "not at long-range damage dealing" makes it seem like it won't also be an archer class. I guess Mark played the level 42 caster that complained to Sanya and got archers nerfed in early DAOC ;)

    I would be pretty disappointed if there is no archer class at all, but maybe tanks and healers will be able to use bows. Bow using healer would be something you don't see much in fantasy MMOs and would open some interesting possibilities.

    I wonder if the scout will still be able to climb into keeps.

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  • MasahikoKobeMasahikoKobe Plantation, FLPosts: 51Member
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs

    Folks,

       Again, just keep in mind that I've been saying the same thing for weeks:

    1) No decision has/will be made until we can present our BSC mechanic to our backers.

    2) If we have stealthers, I'm not a fan of making them "invisiblilty on/invisibility off" + lots of powerful attacks.

    3) I love the idea of a pure scout class.

    4) Remember #1

    Mark

    Ahh the Scoot class. Im fine with them as long as there is a way for them to work in groups as well.

  • VymmVymm Manhattan, NYPosts: 112Member

    A real scouting class sounds like hot fire to me.  A WTFPWN opener class sounds like a rehash of all the games I have played over the past decade and I doubt anyone wants to see that rearing it's ugly head again.  I am dying to hear more about this proposed idea (though open to change #1) and can't wait to see them transmogrify over the course of time into something that fits the RVR plan.

     

    Vymm

    image

  • TumblebutzTumblebutz Henderson, NVPosts: 322Member
    Originally posted by time007

    Sounds like it won't be on a timer, so I'm happy.  haha i can't post anymore about it.  I'm drained from that 1000 page thread i had like 1.5 months ago.   Unless it for some reason it gets put on a timer in testing/beta, which would suck.  Which would then cause me to write a book on the subject to try to defend us.

     

    Any other DAOC stealthers feel like joining me in a toast though?  I'm happy with what i've heard so far.

    /toast

     

    It sounds like MJ's design for stealth will NOT be to facilitate DPS of any sort... and I can get on board with that.  I do hope he includes an Archer class with or without stealth.

    Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival

    RED IS DEAD!

  • HairyzacHairyzac Atlanta, GAPosts: 57Member
    Originally posted by MarkJacobs

    Folks,

       Again, just keep in mind that I've been saying the same thing for weeks:

    1) No decision has/will be made until we can present our BSC mechanic to our backers.

    2) If we have stealthers, I'm not a fan of making them "invisiblilty on/invisibility off" + lots of powerful attacks.

    3) I love the idea of a pure scout class.

    4) Remember #1

    Mark

    +1

  • sweetdigssweetdigs Washington, DCPosts: 196Member
    Originally posted by Xobdnas

    "Mark Jacobs: No final decision on our stealth-type classes has been made, mainly because we have a new mechanic to use for stealth that we want feedback from our backers on. What I can say though is that we will not have a class capable of going into stealth instantly, popping out, having a strong opener/long-range DD and then instantly popping right back in. Also, we want to include a scout class if we meet one of our stretch goals. It would be designed, as the name implies, to be very strong at scouting but not at long-range damage dealing."

    That sounds like a good balanced approach to stealth in RVR.

    All sounds awesome to me.  I'm not a particularly big fan of stealth classes, but a scouting class with stealth abilities that isn't damage oriented sounds ideal.  I would love to play a class like that to scout weak enemy positions or pockets that are ripe for pillaging. 

  • RealLifeGobboRealLifeGobbo Yorktown, VAPosts: 218Member

    I may love steath classes (well a bunch of other classes too!), but I liked the perma-stealth like DAoC.  You could also go counter-stealth and hunt down stealthers.  I do agree with the fact that the cooldown before reuse should be much longer, like a minute.  Nothing is more frustating than zapping a stealther only for them to dissappear in front of you and there is nothing you can do.

    Aspiring Game Musician <<>> Inquiring ears, feel free to visit: http://www.youtube.com/user/vagarylabs

  • Set_in_InkSet_in_Ink Saint Louis, MOPosts: 48Member
    He doesn't say the scout class WON'T be ranged.  He says that it will have strong scouting capabilities, but not strong, long-ranged damage capabilities.  It could be an archer class with average range (think 1500 range in DAoC instead of 1875 bolt range) and average damage which also has some average melee capabilities.  Add strong scouting abilities and this sort of class matches the definition given in the original post.  I wouldnt expect a scouting class to not have ranged capabilities.  I, personally, would love a class such as this.

    'I think that there are certain crimes which the law cannot touch, and which therefore, to some extent, justify private revenge.' -Sherlock Holmes

  • OldskooOldskoo Minneapolis, MNPosts: 189Member
    Originally posted by Set_in_Ink
    He doesn't say the scout class WON'T be ranged.  He says that it will have strong scouting capabilities, but not strong, long-ranged damage capabilities.  It could be an archer class with average range (think 1500 range in DAoC instead of 1875 bolt range) and average damage which also has some average melee capabilities.  Add strong scouting abilities and this sort of class matches the definition given in the original post.  I wouldnt expect a scouting class to not have ranged capabilities.  I, personally, would love a class such as this.

    Yeah, good catch. I had to go back and re-read his quote. I'm hoping the scout has some kind of movement speed enchancment or temporary bonus to help get away while out searching for the enemy. 

    image

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by MarkJacobs
    Folks,   Again, just keep in mind that I've been saying the same thing for weeks:1) No decision has/will be made until we can present our BSC mechanic to our backers.2) If we have stealthers, I'm not a fan of making them "invisiblilty on/invisibility off" + lots of powerful attacks.3) I love the idea of a pure scout class.4) Remember #1. Mark

    QFT

  • OutisOutis Birchwood, TNPosts: 105Member
    Originally posted by time007

    Sounds like it won't be on a timer, so I'm happy.  haha i can't post anymore about it.  I'm drained from that 1000 page thread i had like 1.5 months ago.   Unless it for some reason it gets put on a timer in testing/beta, which would suck.  Which would then cause me to write a book on the subject to try to defend us.

     

    Any other DAOC stealthers feel like joining me in a toast though?  I'm happy with what i've heard so far.

    I will raise a glass with you.

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    image
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