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[Preview] Star Wars: The Old Republic: The Hutt Cartel is Rising

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Comments

  • IncomparableIncomparable KuwaitPosts: 872Member
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by FromHell

    because you don't have any conclusive arguments, and most likely no professional knowledge about cinematography and cutscene dramaturgy.

    Anyway, you only see financial success as a success, I see intelligent game design for niche audiences as a success.

    I don't care about box sales of shiny blockbuster games for the lowest common denominator gamer and products stuffed with big marketing budgets. 

    Like i said been there and done that. Not even going to touch the whole discussion again. Already did enough circle jerking with you few months back . Nothing good came out of that duscussion.

    I see financial success as a success because that is what pays the bill and keeps the wheels turning. When i talk about financial success i am talking from prespective of companies who have to pay their employees who in turn have to pay their bills and put food on the table.  What is your definition of success means nothing in the real world where people jobs and lives  are on the line.

    So yeah maybe ypu don't care about the box sales but companies do because if sales are not good they have to lay off people like they did at TSW. As far as common denominator goes..all MMOS are simplistic at its best. If you want a real challenge i suggest play chess.

    It also depends on your playstyle, and if you have a lot of expereince in games or even a bit in MMOs. If your playstyle happens to like gear grinds that is fine for you, but how many veterans of MMOs like gear grinds that are needllessly tedious for the little reward?

    MMOs with teen ratings and WoW clones are basically gear grinds and are successful for simple designs that kids are willing to play and dont care as much about other kinds of games. Thier tastes are simple, and this is lucrative for a company.

    On the other hand, veteran players, who also might like gear grinds, have more experience, and generally do not want to repeat in the least a low quality gear grind that at least makes the 'jounrey' not feel like a grind in innovative ways.

    And MMOs are complete packages and its not about the journey only but also the end game. Unfortunately swtors journey was too costly reducing the end game development.

    And despite that, if you want to talk about swtor's success then going f2p to over compensate for the lack of developing end game is not a good sign of development, and factors like a teen rated game, a wow clone, and the SW IP help to keep those numbers alive. Also a cash shop giving them extra money, which some people are against due to how it can be exploitive of peoples behavior in overspending or gambling with random packs to be completionists.

    So alternatively, trying to go away from exploiting people's bad behavior requires more intelligent desgin that does not require inexpereinced players to put up with lower quality features that pay the bills to make the game 'successful'. The reason why someone would want a company to try to be innovative to a niche market is that in the end the content better suites someone that does not have to be on the hamster wheel to just do other content.

    For example: Pvp - its competitive. But there is a gear grind. And there is a rinse and repeat.

    Lvling - repeat raids/ops/FPs - when the challenge is essentially the same, but also not intuitive in the first place. WHich means a lot of the raids dont allow for players to adapt to the situation in natural ways becuase of the cost and time to try challenging content (die rerun through trash, and not clear signs of what is actually going on to kill a boss requires a lot of trial and error) so people will research online and memorize strategy which makes repeating content like a grind because its not dynamic once a person memoraizes those sequences.

    These are the problems with a themepark game, and releasing peices of more content resets the gear grind.

    A better comprimise would not put people in a situation to want to do gear grinds for the same pvp bracket for example.

    Or at least makes raids/OPs/FPS dynamic and less punishing so people can learn from them with trial and errorand have more fun. (e.eg change the map, rotate boss abilties differently and allow for environmental situations which with a map change means different things)

     

    “Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble”

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by FromHell

     

     

    As far as common denominator goes..all MMOS are simplistic at its best. If you want a real challenge i suggest play chess.

    This is a great way to approach the problem of SWTOR. You really nailed it:

    All MMOs are simple and stupid, SWTOR is an MMO

    therefore SWTOR is simple and stupid.

     

    It's a great excuse. Bioware ought to write it on the walls on the fleet. Or how about this for an advertisement: Come play Free to Play SWTOR, all MMOs are lame and this one is especially lame!

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser ParisPosts: 1,873Member
    Originally posted by ignore_me

     

    This is a great way to approach the problem of SWTOR. You really nailed it:

    All MMOs are simple and stupid, SWTOR is an MMO

    therefore SWTOR is simple and stupid.

     

    It's a great excuse. Bioware ought to write it on the walls on the fleet. Or how about this for an advertisement: Come play Free to Play SWTOR, all MMOs are lame and this one is especially lame!

    If you are going to quote me atleast make sure you don't try to put words into my mouth. i said MMOS are simplistic not stupid.  What you say is an excuse is what how i feel after playing majority of MMOS. So yeah i find MMOS simple and nothing more than a hobby to kill some free time. Sue me.

     

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

    image

  • Heretic451Heretic451 Santa Rosa, CAPosts: 69Member
    I just want to know when they're going to allow player characters to sit in the thousands of chairs they've placed in the game...
     
  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by ignore_me

     

    This is a great way to approach the problem of SWTOR. You really nailed it:

    All MMOs are simple and stupid, SWTOR is an MMO

    therefore SWTOR is simple and stupid.

     

    It's a great excuse. Bioware ought to write it on the walls on the fleet. Or how about this for an advertisement: Come play Free to Play SWTOR, all MMOs are lame and this one is especially lame!

    If you are going to quote me atleast make sure you don't try to put words into my mouth. i said MMOS are simplistic not stupid.  What you say is an excuse is what how i feel after playing majority of MMOS. So yeah i find MMOS simple and nothing more than a hobby to kill some free time. Sue me.

     

    I think you accurately described the process. I won't sue you, but EA might sue you for revealing their marketing plan.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by Heretic451
    I just want to know when they're going to allow player characters to sit in the thousands of chairs they've placed in the game...
     

    From EA's previous comments about allowing sitting in all chairs being a massive undertaking, I could guess that objects in the world are not modular and were disassociated from templates when they were "hardcoded" into the world.

     

    Thus, it's not about fixing several chair styles to make sitting universal .. EA would need to revisit each copy of a chair art and make them sittable, one by one, replacing them as objects instead of eye candy.

     

    Upgradeability was apparently not on the plate when this game was being designed.  Sad since beta testers were asking for that feature for years.

     

    They did mention that some future chairs would be made sittable.  But that could be next year, or 5 years from now.  Kind of sad when a future paid for DLC will highlight a handful of chairs that can be sat on.  If I ever get the chance to sit on one of them, I guarantee you I'm gonna hog it. "Get up!" .. "NO!"

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by Heretic451
    I just want to know when they're going to allow player characters to sit in the thousands of chairs they've placed in the game...
     

    From EA's previous comments about allowing sitting in all chairs being a massive undertaking, I could guess that objects in the world are not modular and were disassociated from templates when they were "hardcoded" into the world.

     

    Thus, it's not about fixing several chair styles to make sitting universal .. EA would need to revisit each copy of a chair art and make them sittable, one by one, replacing them as objects instead of eye candy.

     

    Upgradeability was apparently not on the plate when this game was being designed.  Sad since beta testers were asking for that feature for years.

     

    They did mention that some future chairs would be made sittable.  But that could be next year, or 5 years from now.  Kind of sad when a future paid for DLC will highlight a handful of chairs that can be sat on.  If I ever get the chance to sit on one of them, I guarantee you I'm gonna hog it. "Get up!" .. "NO!"

    You cant make a Star Wars MMO without some obvious important element being left out. For SWG it was a 3rd axis of movement. For SWTOR it's the rest of Newtonian physics.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • maccajnrmaccajnr LA, CAPosts: 86Member Uncommon
    I'm more waiting for the release of Star Wars episode 7, then SWTOR update that will make me come back.
  • chopgrchopgr AthensPosts: 179Member
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by daltanious

    Along with wow, swtor is my no1 game. Worst problem swtor had since start was not at all swtor itself ... but haters that have spread around even faster then those of wow. They have been bashing game over and over again in all possible forums. Majority never actually I guess played it.

    But is truth i know many that do not like at all story telling, they would if possible just jump to end game, etc. Never ever all players will be happy with same game. This is mission impossible.

    I love every bit of swtor, immersion, combat, story telling ... and particularly I lOVE VOICED ACTING. Ful voiced acting in all quests (great, but unfort only in starting area, were also of Aoc).

    Voice acting was great and all, and it still is the best leveling experiance in any MMO..but with that said, its issue was not "haters", its issue was itself. I was sooo stoked when it launched, you wouldnt believe. Everything was amaizing, i couldnt have asked for more. In fact, I was so pleased, i had actually not renewed my WoW sub....then I hit endgame....and started raiding....cleared through the "hardmode" raids in 1 night...not to mention bugging out the puzzle boss in karaga's palace...also not to mention with master looter option turned on, we all realised we couldnt do a /roll for gear....wtf....
    then also noticing there was no combat log what so ever, we would die, and wernt able to see what killed us..then there was the GCD issue that screwed us up doing nightmare modes, where 1 heal not going off causes the tank to die...something that was there even after tier 2 launched....after all the broken fundementals, I finally had enough, as did many I imagine.

     

    "The Heavens burned, the stars
    cried out
    And under the ashes of infinity,
    Hope, scarred and bleeding,
    breathed its last."

  • chopgrchopgr AthensPosts: 179Member
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by daltanious

    Along with wow, swtor is my no1 game. Worst problem swtor had since start was not at all swtor itself ... but haters that have spread around even faster then those of wow. They have been bashing game over and over again in all possible forums. Majority never actually I guess played it.

    But is truth i know many that do not like at all story telling, they would if possible just jump to end game, etc. Never ever all players will be happy with same game. This is mission impossible.

    I love every bit of swtor, immersion, combat, story telling ... and particularly I lOVE VOICED ACTING. Ful voiced acting in all quests (great, but unfort only in starting area, were also of Aoc).

    Voice acting was great and all, and it still is the best leveling experiance in any MMO..but with that said, its issue was not "haters", its issue was itself. I was sooo stoked when it launched, you wouldnt believe. Everything was amaizing, i couldnt have asked for more. In fact, I was so pleased, i had actually not renewed my WoW sub....then I hit endgame....and started raiding....cleared through the "hardmode" raids in 1 night...not to mention bugging out the puzzle boss in karaga's palace...also not to mention with master looter option turned on, we all realised we couldnt do a /roll for gear....wtf....
    then also noticing there was no combat log what so ever, we would die, and wernt able to see what killed us..then there was the GCD issue that screwed us up doing nightmare modes, where 1 heal not going off causes the tank to die...something that was there even after tier 2 launched....after all the broken fundementals, I finally had enough, as did many I imagine.

     

    pretty much... THIS

     

    The inability to perform a seemless combat due to the Ability Lag, if nothing else, it ruins the game.

    "The Heavens burned, the stars
    cried out
    And under the ashes of infinity,
    Hope, scarred and bleeding,
    breathed its last."

  • Heretic451Heretic451 Santa Rosa, CAPosts: 69Member
    Originally posted by Karteli
    Originally posted by Heretic451
    I just want to know when they're going to allow player characters to sit in the thousands of chairs they've placed in the game...
     

    From EA's previous comments about allowing sitting in all chairs being a massive undertaking, I could guess that objects in the world are not modular and were disassociated from templates when they were "hardcoded" into the world.

     

    Thus, it's not about fixing several chair styles to make sitting universal .. EA would need to revisit each copy of a chair art and make them sittable, one by one, replacing them as objects instead of eye candy.

     

    Upgradeability was apparently not on the plate when this game was being designed.  Sad since beta testers were asking for that feature for years.

     

    They did mention that some future chairs would be made sittable.  But that could be next year, or 5 years from now.  Kind of sad when a future paid for DLC will highlight a handful of chairs that can be sat on.  If I ever get the chance to sit on one of them, I guarantee you I'm gonna hog it. "Get up!" .. "NO!"

    Heheh. Well, you can sit on the chairs in your cockpits, and the ones in the world can be sat in by NPCs (which looks curiously like you sitting in your cockpit's), and they're solid, and mostly sized correctly...

     

    I really think they're completey full of it.

     

    Such a simple thing, like all the other fluff that was ignored. And where the hell is our Pazaak?

     
  • Sevenstar61Sevenstar61 Centreville, VAPosts: 1,690Member Uncommon

    Taking about roleplaying...

    This is the magnificent piece of work :) Enjoy

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFSbxC7nEZQ

    image
    Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
    Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
    Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E

  • FromHellFromHell NY, NYPosts: 1,311Member
    Originally posted by Sevenstar61

    Taking about roleplaying...

    This is the magnificent piece of work :) Enjoy

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFSbxC7nEZQ

    Well done!  A bunch of fans is able to move cameras in cutscenes, something Bioware is unable (or too lazy) to do.

    The game would be much more enjoyable if they wouldn´t have those extremely static cinematics.

    Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

    Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
    .


    .
    The Return of ELITE !
    image

  • AridArid Rock Hill, SCPosts: 14Member
    Originally posted by winter

    WoW where does the guy that wrote this article come up with this stuff??!!

    Seriously you think Bioware asked its players what they wanted in SW:TOR and they said we want F2P? I've seen alot of request from players for more story content which Bioware did not release during its first full year. I've seen requests for free roaming space or a secret space project which of course Bioware is totally ignoring in favor of what F2P with Biowares now trade mark paid DLC. of course most of that now paid for DLC was originally planned for free release last year. thats EA/ware for you if they can't nickle and dime you for release day DLC then they'll just hold the content till later when they can charge for it.

     

    Making free romaing space and all that in this Engine is a no-go. This runs on the SAME EXACT but newer engine of Champions Online or City of Heroes. The HERO Engine. Not everything people ask for is possbile and that kind of ignorance saying "They're ignoring us" Is silly. Yes they are nickle and diming but that does not mean they're ignoring you.

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