Originally posted by Illyssia I just wonder if Bioware/EA shouldn't use this as a learning curve and go for the Mass Effect MMO. That would be really cool. Especially if they went next gen Xbox/playstation and PC for it. Problem with SWTOR is they designed it as a single player mmorpg that had a small end game. After 6-9 months all the cool kids quit just leaving a game that went F2P and hardcore cash shop.
You certainly are not playing the game.
I think F2P ruined the game. All it did was bring players back into the game, but the game is not progressing forward enough to keep it populated for 10 years. 2 million bought the game, and by Nov there about 500K subs still left, probably less. The game is not improved in any major way, since release, and while the game is enjoyable for a while (a frew months) it is not long term, unless spend 1 hour per week or something. SWTOR is designed like a single player game, where you play through the story and then have scripted repeataable content to do. P2P MMOs should be designed with tools in game for players to create their own content. STO is not a sandbox like SWG, but it has the foundry, which gets your creativity flowiing and the content is limited only by peoples imaginations. Until EA/BW do something like this then I see the game being dead by the end of the year, like it was last year
SWG was worth every penny of each monthly sub, there were tonnes of things to keep yourself amused without the devs having to do anything. I get much more fun from Dead Space series, Mass Effect, Tomb Raider, The Darkness etc as I do from SWTOR which does not have a monthly fee.
The reason I do not like SWTOR is because it is not a MMO I can sink my teeth into for years / forever, but for a few months play time like a single player game I do like it.
SWTOR needs to go fully free, but can not do because of its costs, then it can be viewed more so like a game like Sleeping Dogs. I play and pay to that more than I do SWTOR due to all its DLC it gets, as the main game is not restricted like SWTOR is. Also they need to start subbers needing to use the CM less, as the CM should only be used for people playing the game for free, and expansions should have the option to buy with CC.
2. Fully voiced did add a lot. Haters will say it didn't but they either didn't play the game or are those who never bothered with stories and just skip. But i think every MMO should have fully voiced dialouges cause it really helps in keeping it interesting.
I think it´s funny how people have the misconception of SWTOR being "fully voiced".
Yeah, they have fully voiced cutscenes. So does every other triple-A MMO which came out after 2011, TSW, Gw2 and upcoming ESO. Even AoC has many, many voiced quests up to lvl80, not all, but that came out in 2008.
What´s not voiced in SWTOR are the damn static NPCs standing around. They did not use their magical fourth pillar out in the open world. All we have is silent NPC clones waving their hands:
2. Fully voiced did add a lot. Haters will say it didn't but they either didn't play the game or are those who never bothered with stories and just skip. But i think every MMO should have fully voiced dialouges cause it really helps in keeping it interesting.
I think it´s funny how people have the misconception of SWTOR being "fully voiced".
Yeah, they have fully voiced cutscenes. So does every other triple-A MMO which came out after 2011, TSW, Gw2 and upcoming ESO. Even AoC has many, many voiced quests up to lvl80, not all, but that came out in 2008.
What´s not voiced in SWTOR are the damn static NPCs standing around. They did not use their magical fourth pillar out in the open world. All we have is silent NPC clones waving their hands:
so if voiceovers are SWTORs unique selling point; where are the voiceovers in the open world?
When people say full voiced over they are ofcourse talking about the way quests are given out which was something not that common before swtor. Now you can interpret the term 'full voiced over' in whatever manner you like. But that fact is that every single quest giver in SWTOR is voiced over. And like you said TSW, GW2 released after SWTOR. So the 'first' game with fully voiced NPC giving out quests still goes to SWTOR.
However, i like how you never forget to advertise TSW and AOC in almsot every reply of yours. And also use GW2 as an example when it is convenient because mostly you got nothing but very bad hate for GW2 as well as ANet.
PS both in TSW and AOC your character is a mute.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
We'll have to see, regardless, I preordered it anyways.
I appreciate the authors non-biased writing.
I expect we will see the Cathar, maybe solo-ranked wz, cool gear, 28 mods, mk-7/mk-8 augments, possibly paid server transfers coming soon, maybe another implementation of open world pvp(PVP announcements have really slowed down), why'd he say third faction like that "Taboro have revealed themselves as a third faction vying for control of the galaxy" ?
Huh? :0
Clearly you haven't played the on the PTS yet. We are getting level 30-33 gear, and mk-9 augments. The Hutts are a faction in the galaxy, like the Republic and Empire, but it's a NPC one. Think of them like the Black Sun pirates in Empire at War.
2. Fully voiced did add a lot. Haters will say it didn't but they either didn't play the game or are those who never bothered with stories and just skip. But i think every MMO should have fully voiced dialouges cause it really helps in keeping it interesting.
I think it´s funny how people have the misconception of SWTOR being "fully voiced".
Yeah, they have fully voiced cutscenes. So does every other triple-A MMO which came out after 2011, TSW, Gw2 and upcoming ESO. Even AoC has many, many voiced quests up to lvl80, not all, but that came out in 2008.
What´s not voiced in SWTOR are the damn static NPCs standing around. They did not use their magical fourth pillar out in the open world. All we have is silent NPC clones waving their hands:
so if voiceovers are SWTORs unique selling point; where are the voiceovers in the open world?
You mean, MMOs that came out after SWTOR copied SWTOR's techniques? Hmm... and BTW, SWTOR still has a lot more voice acting than those games, and your main character is voiced, and you have multiple branching voice dialogues. Downplay it all you want. It set a precedent.
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Originally posted by Elikal What the heck is a Krogan doing in that screenshot??
That's what I said.
Weird eh? Maybe we find Commander Shepard under a rock. XD
Speaking of which: As SImCity disaster compensation I had gotten a free Mass Effect 3 copy, which I just finished. And while I really loved it, mostly, it also felt like I had played the same story and seen the same characters and heard the same lines before. SOMEHOW all these Bioware games, KOTOR, DA, ME, SWTOR... they all feel so... alike. Like, seen one, seen all. Ok, that's a bit over the top, but... I had this deja vu feeling in ME3.
So that's why I am not surprised to see a Krogan in SWTOR.
Sidenote to sidenote: I hope Shepard returns in ME4. Tho I am tired hearing the name, lol. Why was EVERYONE constantly addressing me with my name in that damn game? Nobody does that in RL!
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Along with wow, swtor is my no1 game. Worst problem swtor had since start was not at all swtor itself ... but haters that have spread around even faster then those of wow. They have been bashing game over and over again in all possible forums. Majority never actually I guess played it.
But is truth i know many that do not like at all story telling, they would if possible just jump to end game, etc. Never ever all players will be happy with same game. This is mission impossible.
I love every bit of swtor, immersion, combat, story telling ... and particularly I lOVE VOICED ACTING. Ful voiced acting in all quests (great, but unfort only in starting area, were also of Aoc).
I still play and enjoy SWToR everyday since launch. Now i don't care much for endgame as im a RPer and get my fun out of roleplaying with others. So for me the setting is more important then the actual content when lvl 50. I had a blast playing trough the class quests and i enjoy that all quests are spoken dialouge. Haters been bashing the game rather unfairly in the early days. But it's nothing new, with every new MMORPG you got haters trying to destroy a game cause they favor another game. SWToR had the bad luck of being caught between two giant hater groups, the GW2 fanboys and the WoW fanboys who both attacked SWToR. GW2 fanboy's shouting that GW2 was gonna be a lot better and WoW Faboys shouting SWToR didn't do anything new.
SWToR might not be the best MMORPG for most people but it did some things right:
1. It wasn't another generic fantasy setting like almost every other freaking MMO out there.
2. Fully voiced did add a lot. Haters will say it didn't but they either didn't play the game or are those who never bothered with stories and just skip. But i think every MMO should have fully voiced dialouges cause it really helps in keeping it interesting.
3. You got to own your own little place, in SWToR its a ship. They should have given you options to customize it from the inside and do more with it (and once they had those plans until it became F2P). But still you got your own little place that is yours. GW2 has it with the districts.
For me SWToR is the first MMORPG that caught my attention for longer then a few months after release since WoW. I played WoW till shortly after Cata came out. I just couldn't settle into other MMO's and i tried. I tried to like AoC but the bugs eventually killed it for me, i wanted to like Warhammer but with no one around anymore and me being in the lower tiers meant no fun pvp so it killed it for me, Aion great on promise with flying was just a gimick bullcrap that was very limited, kiilled it for me. SWToR i been playing since the start as still love it.
However i do think Bioware/EA should do more with it and listen to the fans. They promised a huge space expansion that would be patched into the game shortly after release....we never saw it happen. They promised same sex relationships would be patched after release, they canned it just to make it a thing you can do on one planet only (i don't care what people think about same sex relationships, it was a feature that was suppose to be in the game and they just scratched it out just to make a basic version later again that you have to pay for), they promised seats to sit on, more then the three chairs in your space ship. But for some reason they never implanted it in the game. Why can't we sit on chairs i mean wtf? Oh and please don't give me the BS "Who gives a F about chairs to sit on, we want more endgame!" raiders aren't the only type of players okay, there are also RPers and frankly the european RP server has been highly poplulated since day one so one should also please them next to the end gamers and pvpers. Many things that where promised to be added over time never made it and they should do so. More races, more freedom in exploration.
What i don't get is that SWToR haters still come to SWToR topics and spill their guts out about how terrible the expension is gonna be. Why would you care? You don't play the game. You never did or only the first month but WoW or GW2 was more appealing (and that is your good right im not saying its wrong). Just return to your own game don't bother us. Let everyone enjoy their own game, no need to whine and cry about a game you don't play. SWtoR is a enjoyable game, it didn't do much to change the MMORPG scene, but so what, not one of the current MMORPG's has done that. Not even GW2, it only did something that do it a little different. But it are mostly things that where normal in MMORPG's before WoW.
I agree with everything in your post. As for why SWTOR haters keep coming back for the sake of coming back to spill their guts about a game they don't play... Why can't I have all of their freetime?
2. Fully voiced did add a lot. Haters will say it didn't but they either didn't play the game or are those who never bothered with stories and just skip. But i think every MMO should have fully voiced dialouges cause it really helps in keeping it interesting.
I think it´s funny how people have the misconception of SWTOR being "fully voiced".
Yeah, they have fully voiced cutscenes. So does every other triple-A MMO which came out after 2011, TSW, Gw2 and upcoming ESO. Even AoC has many, many voiced quests up to lvl80, not all, but that came out in 2008.
What´s not voiced in SWTOR are the damn static NPCs standing around. They did not use their magical fourth pillar out in the open world. All we have is silent NPC clones waving their hands:
It's just more of the same, with a different background scenery.
For how this Special Announcement was played up at DarthHater, TorWars, Duffy, and other sites, this news is nothing short of a complete letdown.
TORWars said the news was so good that "You'll explode!" .. leading to speculation about engine revamps, open world PVP done right, freeroam space flight .. expansive planets ... immersive features ...
But instead the secret message decoded to: "Don't forget to drink your Ovaltine!"
I got to be fair to DarthHater on this one, as he had hoped to go more into depth with it but the NDA he was under prevented him going into more detail at the time he said he would. If I remember he said something like "Check back tomorrow for some news you don't want to miss" which I believe he meant to give the low-down on the content he had been beta testing, but was not able to do so until NDA lifted. I actually not checked out the new 'news' on his site, but I would honestly say if you were expecting the second coming with this content, you were always being set up for disapointment.
Although SWTOR is not something I play any more, I do like to keep up to date with the news and the thing is, for a subscriber new content is coming out in a reasonable manner and it does appear to be good. But is it too little too late? Or is it something that if you left it a year and came back to it that you would have a much more full-filling experience?
2. Fully voiced did add a lot. Haters will say it didn't but they either didn't play the game or are those who never bothered with stories and just skip. But i think every MMO should have fully voiced dialouges cause it really helps in keeping it interesting.
I think it´s funny how people have the misconception of SWTOR being "fully voiced".
Yeah, they have fully voiced cutscenes. So does every other triple-A MMO which came out after 2011, TSW, Gw2 and upcoming ESO. Even AoC has many, many voiced quests up to lvl80, not all, but that came out in 2008.
What´s not voiced in SWTOR are the damn static NPCs standing around. They did not use their magical fourth pillar out in the open world. All we have is silent NPC clones waving their hands:
so if voiceovers are SWTORs unique selling point; where are the voiceovers in the open world?
What's funny is how you choose to bash SWTOR everywhere you show up, it's like you are obsessed.
The fact of the matter is that none of the games you mentioned has the quality of SWTOR's voiceovers and story overall, not by a longshot.
As for the expansion, it's great news, more quality content is always a good thing and i'm looking forward to it.
Dare say something bad about AOC and TSW and he will rip you a new one. Go ahead give it a try.
The roles of hater and fanboy keep changing depending upon what game you like and hate and in between all this people forget the irony and hypocricy of their actions.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Along with wow, swtor is my no1 game. Worst problem swtor had since start was not at all swtor itself ... but haters that have spread around even faster then those of wow. They have been bashing game over and over again in all possible forums. Majority never actually I guess played it.
But is truth i know many that do not like at all story telling, they would if possible just jump to end game, etc. Never ever all players will be happy with same game. This is mission impossible.
I love every bit of swtor, immersion, combat, story telling ... and particularly I lOVE VOICED ACTING. Ful voiced acting in all quests (great, but unfort only in starting area, were also of Aoc).
Voice acting was great and all, and it still is the best leveling experiance in any MMO..but with that said, its issue was not "haters", its issue was itself. I was sooo stoked when it launched, you wouldnt believe. Everything was amaizing, i couldnt have asked for more. In fact, I was so pleased, i had actually not renewed my WoW sub....then I hit endgame....and started raiding....cleared through the "hardmode" raids in 1 night...not to mention bugging out the puzzle boss in karaga's palace...also not to mention with master looter option turned on, we all realised we couldnt do a /roll for gear....wtf.... then also noticing there was no combat log what so ever, we would die, and wernt able to see what killed us..then there was the GCD issue that screwed us up doing nightmare modes, where 1 heal not going off causes the tank to die...something that was there even after tier 2 launched....after all the broken fundementals, I finally had enough, as did many I imagine.
Originally posted by Illyssia I just wonder if Bioware/EA shouldn't use this as a learning curve and go for the Mass Effect MMO. That would be really cool. Especially if they went next gen Xbox/playstation and PC for it. Problem with SWTOR is they designed it as a single player mmorpg that had a small end game. After 6-9 months all the cool kids quit just leaving a game that went F2P and hardcore cash shop.
You certainly are not playing the game.
I think F2P ruined the game. All it did was bring players back into the game, but the game is not progressing forward enough to keep it populated for 10 years. 2 million bought the game, and by Nov there about 500K subs still left, probably less. The game is not improved in any major way, since release, and while the game is enjoyable for a while (a frew months) it is not long term, unless spend 1 hour per week or something. SWTOR is designed like a single player game, where you play through the story and then have scripted repeataable content to do. P2P MMOs should be designed with tools in game for players to create their own content. STO is not a sandbox like SWG, but it has the foundry, which gets your creativity flowiing and the content is limited only by peoples imaginations. Until EA/BW do something like this then I see the game being dead by the end of the year, like it was last year
SWG was worth every penny of each monthly sub, there were tonnes of things to keep yourself amused without the devs having to do anything. I get much more fun from Dead Space series, Mass Effect, Tomb Raider, The Darkness etc as I do from SWTOR which does not have a monthly fee.
The reason I do not like SWTOR is because it is not a MMO I can sink my teeth into for years / forever, but for a few months play time like a single player game I do like it.
SWTOR needs to go fully free, but can not do because of its costs, then it can be viewed more so like a game like Sleeping Dogs. I play and pay to that more than I do SWTOR due to all its DLC it gets, as the main game is not restricted like SWTOR is. Also they need to start subbers needing to use the CM less, as the CM should only be used for people playing the game for free, and expansions should have the option to buy with CC.
Is your point of view, people have been talking about the death of swtor for more than a year, never happened and it wont happen anytime soon. Since the f2p model they have earning new subs and players everyday, and the Cartel Market is a huge success for them and thats good for us because they have more money and resources to keep making new content. You are talking about STO, you remember how it was at launch and 1 year after?, look at it now and imagine how good and huge can be swtor with at least 1 more year of updates. They are working in really a lot of thigs for this game, features and content that will come, like the new space combat proyect. But the hate around this game is just huge, swtor is not swg, is weird because now everyone is talking about how good SWG was, but when the game was still running SWG was everything but good.
TOR's environments were actually always pretty good and with a lot of interesting places to visit. Except no one ever bothered to explore the vast majority of the planets because there was absolutely no reason to, and the design still failed by cornering off Republic and Empire from each other, which totally prevented world pvp.
As for the rest, I'm only coming back the game when I see some serious progression in the fields of open PvP / grind reduction and see real indication that they will continually succeed to update it in engaging new ways.
That's still missing atm.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
2. Fully voiced did add a lot. Haters will say it didn't but they either didn't play the game or are those who never bothered with stories and just skip. But i think every MMO should have fully voiced dialouges cause it really helps in keeping it interesting.
I think it´s funny how people have the misconception of SWTOR being "fully voiced".
Yeah, they have fully voiced cutscenes. So does every other triple-A MMO which came out after 2011, TSW, Gw2 and upcoming ESO. Even AoC has many, many voiced quests up to lvl80, not all, but that came out in 2008.
What´s not voiced in SWTOR are the damn static NPCs standing around. They did not use their magical fourth pillar out in the open world. All we have is silent NPC clones waving their hands:
so if voiceovers are SWTORs unique selling point; where are the voiceovers in the open world?
What's funny is how you choose to bash SWTOR everywhere you show up, it's like you are obsessed.
The fact of the matter is that none of the games you mentioned has the quality of SWTOR's voiceovers and story overall, not by a longshot.
As for the expansion, it's great news, more quality content is always a good thing and i'm looking forward to it.
Dare say something bad about AOC and TSW and he will rip you a new one. Go ahead give it a try.
The roles of hater and fanboy keep changing depending upon what game you like and hate and in between all this people forget the irony and hypocricy of their actions.
Some people are unable to admit the obvious weaknesses and design errors of SWTOR, then they preach the "fully voiced" feature to excuse the lack of gameplay mechanics. Voiceover =/= fun gameplay. No need to throw in your old hater/fanboy paradigm.
Would be nice if SWTOR cutscenes wouldn´t lack cinematic quality, because there is not a single cutscene with camera movement, guess you didn´t notice that 99% of cutscenes show two characters standing side by side, waving hands. Still better cutscenes than GW2 with their generic still background though.
Yes, I can say TSW and AoC are objectively better made games than SWTOR, by simply making a bullet point feature list, I thought SWTOR would set a new level of quality for MMOs, it did not, it was two steps back plus voiceovers, end of story.
2. Fully voiced did add a lot. Haters will say it didn't but they either didn't play the game or are those who never bothered with stories and just skip. But i think every MMO should have fully voiced dialouges cause it really helps in keeping it interesting.
I think it´s funny how people have the misconception of SWTOR being "fully voiced".
Yeah, they have fully voiced cutscenes. So does every other triple-A MMO which came out after 2011, TSW, Gw2 and upcoming ESO. Even AoC has many, many voiced quests up to lvl80, not all, but that came out in 2008.
What´s not voiced in SWTOR are the damn static NPCs standing around. They did not use their magical fourth pillar out in the open world. All we have is silent NPC clones waving their hands:
so if voiceovers are SWTORs unique selling point; where are the voiceovers in the open world?
What's funny is how you choose to bash SWTOR everywhere you show up, it's like you are obsessed.
The fact of the matter is that none of the games you mentioned has the quality of SWTOR's voiceovers and story overall, not by a longshot.
As for the expansion, it's great news, more quality content is always a good thing and i'm looking forward to it.
Dare say something bad about AOC and TSW and he will rip you a new one. Go ahead give it a try.
The roles of hater and fanboy keep changing depending upon what game you like and hate and in between all this people forget the irony and hypocricy of their actions.
Some people are unable to admit the obvious weaknesses and design errors of SWTOR, then they preach the "fully voiced" feature to excuse the lack of gameplay mechanics. Voiceover =/= fun gameplay. No need to throw in your old hater/fanboy paradigm.
Would be nice if SWTOR cutscenes wouldn´t lack cinematic quality, because there is not a single cutscene with camera movement, guess you didn´t notice that 99% of cutscenes show two characters standing side by side, waving hands. Still better cutscenes than GW2 with their generic still background though.
Yes, I can say TSW and AoC are objectively better made games than SWTOR, by simply making a bullet point feature list, I thought SWTOR would set a new level of quality for MMOs, it did not, it was two steps back plus voiceovers, end of story.
You don´t need to be a film student to notice the differences right?
You mean just like you are unable to admit the obvious flaws and shortcomings of TSW and AOC? i think you are the last person from whom i need a lesson in objectivity. I can give you a long list of what is wrong with TSW and why it tanked so badly that they had to go B2P to save their asses within few months. But this is not the right forums for it.
So yeah my hater / fanboy paradigm fits in perfectly. I have seen the role reversal way too many times.
And i think you already discussed about the cinematoography of cut scenes in length few months back..didn't you? i have no intention to get into same stale argument again.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
2. Fully voiced did add a lot. Haters will say it didn't but they either didn't play the game or are those who never bothered with stories and just skip. But i think every MMO should have fully voiced dialouges cause it really helps in keeping it interesting.
I think it´s funny how people have the misconception of SWTOR being "fully voiced".
Yeah, they have fully voiced cutscenes. So does every other triple-A MMO which came out after 2011, TSW, Gw2 and upcoming ESO. Even AoC has many, many voiced quests up to lvl80, not all, but that came out in 2008.
What´s not voiced in SWTOR are the damn static NPCs standing around. They did not use their magical fourth pillar out in the open world. All we have is silent NPC clones waving their hands:
so if voiceovers are SWTORs unique selling point; where are the voiceovers in the open world?
What's funny is how you choose to bash SWTOR everywhere you show up, it's like you are obsessed.
The fact of the matter is that none of the games you mentioned has the quality of SWTOR's voiceovers and story overall, not by a longshot.
As for the expansion, it's great news, more quality content is always a good thing and i'm looking forward to it.
Dare say something bad about AOC and TSW and he will rip you a new one. Go ahead give it a try.
The roles of hater and fanboy keep changing depending upon what game you like and hate and in between all this people forget the irony and hypocricy of their actions.
Some people are unable to admit the obvious weaknesses and design errors of SWTOR, then they preach the "fully voiced" feature to excuse the lack of gameplay mechanics. Voiceover =/= fun gameplay. No need to throw in your old hater/fanboy paradigm.
Would be nice if SWTOR cutscenes wouldn´t lack cinematic quality, because there is not a single cutscene with camera movement, guess you didn´t notice that 99% of cutscenes show two characters standing side by side, waving hands. Still better cutscenes than GW2 with their generic still background though.
Yes, I can say TSW and AoC are objectively better made games than SWTOR, by simply making a bullet point feature list, I thought SWTOR would set a new level of quality for MMOs, it did not, it was two steps back plus voiceovers, end of story.
You don´t need to be a film student to notice the differences right?
You mean just like you are unable to admit the obvious flaws and shortcomings of TSW and AOC? i think you are the last person from whom i need a lesson in objectivity. I can give you a long list of what is wrong with TSW and why it tanked so badly that they had to go B2P to save their asses within few months. But this is not the right forums for it.
So yeah my hater / fanboy paradigm fits in perfectly. I have seen the role reversal way too many times.
And i think you already discussed about the cinematoography of cut scenes in length few months back..didn't you? i have no intention to get into same stale argument again.
Concerning your sig:
Recent historic research has proven that Caligula was the victim of a defamtion campaign. And I would *assume* the word against the so called "entitlement" of Online Gamers is just the same. Sometimes just because dozens of people claim this and that person is oh so wicked/selfish, it's more often a campaign. A slander. Most of his life was actually made up for political reasons.
Caligula is dead a long time. No one speaks for him, but everyone takes his name now as the epitome of madness and evil. Wrongly so. And while his name today is highly irrelevant, maybe the fact that both, Caligula and the Online Gamer are targets of a slander campaign, that does say something. In fact I think most Online Gamers are far too easily satisfiend, brushed off, lulled and lied to.
And despite I owe Emperor Caligula nothing, I hate injustice and slander. Even to a long dead Roman Emperor.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I agree with everything in your post. As for why SWTOR haters keep coming back for the sake of coming back to spill their guts about a game they don't play... Why can't I have all of their freetime?
It's just more bitching and moaning from the same people that have been hounding this game since day one, really, there must be one giant void in their lives for them to consistently bitch and moan about a videogame for 1 year +. I like SWTOR but I don't go to the forums because these losers have been obsessing with their irrational hatred for so long.
You'd think that at some point they'd move on but no, their hatred is an utter obsession which brings into question their self-esteem and dysfunctional lives, they seriously need to chill-out and take a look at themselves. Anyone marginally functional knows what real problems are in real life, they wouldn't waste time on something like this.
2. Fully voiced did add a lot. Haters will say it didn't but they either didn't play the game or are those who never bothered with stories and just skip. But i think every MMO should have fully voiced dialouges cause it really helps in keeping it interesting.
I think it´s funny how people have the misconception of SWTOR being "fully voiced".
Yeah, they have fully voiced cutscenes. So does every other triple-A MMO which came out after 2011, TSW, Gw2 and upcoming ESO. Even AoC has many, many voiced quests up to lvl80, not all, but that came out in 2008.
What´s not voiced in SWTOR are the damn static NPCs standing around. They did not use their magical fourth pillar out in the open world. All we have is silent NPC clones waving their hands:
so if voiceovers are SWTORs unique selling point; where are the voiceovers in the open world?
What's funny is how you choose to bash SWTOR everywhere you show up, it's like you are obsessed.
The fact of the matter is that none of the games you mentioned has the quality of SWTOR's voiceovers and story overall, not by a longshot.
As for the expansion, it's great news, more quality content is always a good thing and i'm looking forward to it.
Dare say something bad about AOC and TSW and he will rip you a new one. Go ahead give it a try.
The roles of hater and fanboy keep changing depending upon what game you like and hate and in between all this people forget the irony and hypocricy of their actions.
Some people are unable to admit the obvious weaknesses and design errors of SWTOR, then they preach the "fully voiced" feature to excuse the lack of gameplay mechanics. Voiceover =/= fun gameplay. No need to throw in your old hater/fanboy paradigm.
Would be nice if SWTOR cutscenes wouldn´t lack cinematic quality, because there is not a single cutscene with camera movement, guess you didn´t notice that 99% of cutscenes show two characters standing side by side, waving hands. Still better cutscenes than GW2 with their generic still background though.
Yes, I can say TSW and AoC are objectively better made games than SWTOR, by simply making a bullet point feature list, I thought SWTOR would set a new level of quality for MMOs, it did not, it was two steps back plus voiceovers, end of story.
You don´t need to be a film student to notice the differences right?
You mean just like you are unable to admit the obvious flaws and shortcomings of TSW and AOC? i think you are the last person from whom i need a lesson in objectivity. I can give you a long list of what is wrong with TSW and why it tanked so badly that they had to go B2P to save their asses within few months. But this is not the right forums for it.
So yeah my hater / fanboy paradigm fits in perfectly. I have seen the role reversal way too many times.
And i think you already discussed about the cinematoography of cut scenes in length few months back..didn't you? i have no intention to get into same stale argument again.
because you don't have any conclusive arguments, and most likely no professional knowledge about cinematography and cutscene dramaturgy.
Anyway, you only see financial success as a success, I see intelligent game design for niche audiences as a success.
I don't care about box sales of shiny blockbuster games for the lowest common denominator gamer and products stuffed with big marketing budgets.
because you don't have any conclusive arguments, and most likely no professional knowledge about cinematography and cutscene dramaturgy.
Anyway, you only see financial success as a success, I see intelligent game design for niche audiences as a success.
I don't care about box sales of shiny blockbuster games for the lowest common denominator gamer and products stuffed with big marketing budgets.
Like i said been there and done that. Not even going to touch the whole discussion again. Already did enough circle jerking with you few months back . Nothing good came out of that duscussion.
I see financial success as a success because that is what pays the bill and keeps the wheels turning. When i talk about financial success i am talking from prespective of companies who have to pay their employees who in turn have to pay their bills and put food on the table. What is your definition of success means nothing in the real world where people jobs and lives are on the line.
So yeah maybe ypu don't care about the box sales but companies do because if sales are not good they have to lay off people like they did at TSW. As far as common denominator goes..all MMOS are simplistic at its best. If you want a real challenge i suggest play chess.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
because you don't have any conclusive arguments, and most likely no professional knowledge about cinematography and cutscene dramaturgy.
Anyway, you only see financial success as a success, I see intelligent game design for niche audiences as a success.
I don't care about box sales of shiny blockbuster games for the lowest common denominator gamer and products stuffed with big marketing budgets.
Like i said been there and done that. Not even going to touch the whole discussion again. Already did enough circle jerking with you few months back . Nothing good came out of that duscussion.
I see financial success as a success because that is what pays the bill and keeps the wheels turning. When i talk about financial success i am talking from prespective of companies who have to pay their employees who in turn have to pay their bills and put food on the table. What is your definition of success means nothing in the real world where people jobs and lives are on the line.
So yeah maybe ypu don't care about the box sales but companies do because if sales are not good they have to lay off people like they did at TSW. As far as common denominator goes..all MMOS are simplistic at its best. If you want a real challenge i suggest play chess.
It also depends on your playstyle, and if you have a lot of expereince in games or even a bit in MMOs. If your playstyle happens to like gear grinds that is fine for you, but how many veterans of MMOs like gear grinds that are needllessly tedious for the little reward?
MMOs with teen ratings and WoW clones are basically gear grinds and are successful for simple designs that kids are willing to play and dont care as much about other kinds of games. Thier tastes are simple, and this is lucrative for a company.
On the other hand, veteran players, who also might like gear grinds, have more experience, and generally do not want to repeat in the least a low quality gear grind that at least makes the 'jounrey' not feel like a grind in innovative ways.
And MMOs are complete packages and its not about the journey only but also the end game. Unfortunately swtors journey was too costly reducing the end game development.
And despite that, if you want to talk about swtor's success then going f2p to over compensate for the lack of developing end game is not a good sign of development, and factors like a teen rated game, a wow clone, and the SW IP help to keep those numbers alive. Also a cash shop giving them extra money, which some people are against due to how it can be exploitive of peoples behavior in overspending or gambling with random packs to be completionists.
So alternatively, trying to go away from exploiting people's bad behavior requires more intelligent desgin that does not require inexpereinced players to put up with lower quality features that pay the bills to make the game 'successful'. The reason why someone would want a company to try to be innovative to a niche market is that in the end the content better suites someone that does not have to be on the hamster wheel to just do other content.
For example: Pvp - its competitive. But there is a gear grind. And there is a rinse and repeat.
Lvling - repeat raids/ops/FPs - when the challenge is essentially the same, but also not intuitive in the first place. WHich means a lot of the raids dont allow for players to adapt to the situation in natural ways becuase of the cost and time to try challenging content (die rerun through trash, and not clear signs of what is actually going on to kill a boss requires a lot of trial and error) so people will research online and memorize strategy which makes repeating content like a grind because its not dynamic once a person memoraizes those sequences.
These are the problems with a themepark game, and releasing peices of more content resets the gear grind.
A better comprimise would not put people in a situation to want to do gear grinds for the same pvp bracket for example.
Or at least makes raids/OPs/FPS dynamic and less punishing so people can learn from them with trial and errorand have more fun. (e.eg change the map, rotate boss abilties differently and allow for environmental situations which with a map change means different things)
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
Comments
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I think F2P ruined the game. All it did was bring players back into the game, but the game is not progressing forward enough to keep it populated for 10 years. 2 million bought the game, and by Nov there about 500K subs still left, probably less. The game is not improved in any major way, since release, and while the game is enjoyable for a while (a frew months) it is not long term, unless spend 1 hour per week or something. SWTOR is designed like a single player game, where you play through the story and then have scripted repeataable content to do. P2P MMOs should be designed with tools in game for players to create their own content. STO is not a sandbox like SWG, but it has the foundry, which gets your creativity flowiing and the content is limited only by peoples imaginations. Until EA/BW do something like this then I see the game being dead by the end of the year, like it was last year
SWG was worth every penny of each monthly sub, there were tonnes of things to keep yourself amused without the devs having to do anything. I get much more fun from Dead Space series, Mass Effect, Tomb Raider, The Darkness etc as I do from SWTOR which does not have a monthly fee.
The reason I do not like SWTOR is because it is not a MMO I can sink my teeth into for years / forever, but for a few months play time like a single player game I do like it.
SWTOR needs to go fully free, but can not do because of its costs, then it can be viewed more so like a game like Sleeping Dogs. I play and pay to that more than I do SWTOR due to all its DLC it gets, as the main game is not restricted like SWTOR is. Also they need to start subbers needing to use the CM less, as the CM should only be used for people playing the game for free, and expansions should have the option to buy with CC.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
I think it´s funny how people have the misconception of SWTOR being "fully voiced".
Yeah, they have fully voiced cutscenes. So does every other triple-A MMO which came out after 2011, TSW, Gw2 and upcoming ESO. Even AoC has many, many voiced quests up to lvl80, not all, but that came out in 2008.
What´s not voiced in SWTOR are the damn static NPCs standing around. They did not use their magical fourth pillar out in the open world. All we have is silent NPC clones waving their hands:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUdZn5v5sEU
so if voiceovers are SWTORs unique selling point; where are the voiceovers in the open world?
Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw
Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
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The Return of ELITE !
When people say full voiced over they are ofcourse talking about the way quests are given out which was something not that common before swtor. Now you can interpret the term 'full voiced over' in whatever manner you like. But that fact is that every single quest giver in SWTOR is voiced over. And like you said TSW, GW2 released after SWTOR. So the 'first' game with fully voiced NPC giving out quests still goes to SWTOR.
However, i like how you never forget to advertise TSW and AOC in almsot every reply of yours. And also use GW2 as an example when it is convenient because mostly you got nothing but very bad hate for GW2 as well as ANet.
PS both in TSW and AOC your character is a mute.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Clearly you haven't played the on the PTS yet. We are getting level 30-33 gear, and mk-9 augments. The Hutts are a faction in the galaxy, like the Republic and Empire, but it's a NPC one. Think of them like the Black Sun pirates in Empire at War.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
You mean, MMOs that came out after SWTOR copied SWTOR's techniques? Hmm... and BTW, SWTOR still has a lot more voice acting than those games, and your main character is voiced, and you have multiple branching voice dialogues. Downplay it all you want. It set a precedent.
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That's what I said.
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Weird eh? Maybe we find Commander Shepard under a rock. XD
Speaking of which: As SImCity disaster compensation I had gotten a free Mass Effect 3 copy, which I just finished. And while I really loved it, mostly, it also felt like I had played the same story and seen the same characters and heard the same lines before. SOMEHOW all these Bioware games, KOTOR, DA, ME, SWTOR... they all feel so... alike. Like, seen one, seen all. Ok, that's a bit over the top, but... I had this deja vu feeling in ME3.
So that's why I am not surprised to see a Krogan in SWTOR.
Sidenote to sidenote: I hope Shepard returns in ME4. Tho I am tired hearing the name, lol. Why was EVERYONE constantly addressing me with my name in that damn game? Nobody does that in RL!
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I agree with everything in your post. As for why SWTOR haters keep coming back for the sake of coming back to spill their guts about a game they don't play... Why can't I have all of their freetime?
What's funny is how you choose to bash SWTOR everywhere you show up, it's like you are obsessed.
The fact of the matter is that none of the games you mentioned has the quality of SWTOR's voiceovers and story overall, not by a longshot.
As for the expansion, it's great news, more quality content is always a good thing and i'm looking forward to it.
I got to be fair to DarthHater on this one, as he had hoped to go more into depth with it but the NDA he was under prevented him going into more detail at the time he said he would. If I remember he said something like "Check back tomorrow for some news you don't want to miss" which I believe he meant to give the low-down on the content he had been beta testing, but was not able to do so until NDA lifted. I actually not checked out the new 'news' on his site, but I would honestly say if you were expecting the second coming with this content, you were always being set up for disapointment.
Although SWTOR is not something I play any more, I do like to keep up to date with the news and the thing is, for a subscriber new content is coming out in a reasonable manner and it does appear to be good. But is it too little too late? Or is it something that if you left it a year and came back to it that you would have a much more full-filling experience?
I honestly don't know.
Dare say something bad about AOC and TSW and he will rip you a new one. Go ahead give it a try.
The roles of hater and fanboy keep changing depending upon what game you like and hate and in between all this people forget the irony and hypocricy of their actions.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Voice acting was great and all, and it still is the best leveling experiance in any MMO..but with that said, its issue was not "haters", its issue was itself. I was sooo stoked when it launched, you wouldnt believe. Everything was amaizing, i couldnt have asked for more. In fact, I was so pleased, i had actually not renewed my WoW sub....then I hit endgame....and started raiding....cleared through the "hardmode" raids in 1 night...not to mention bugging out the puzzle boss in karaga's palace...also not to mention with master looter option turned on, we all realised we couldnt do a /roll for gear....wtf....
then also noticing there was no combat log what so ever, we would die, and wernt able to see what killed us..then there was the GCD issue that screwed us up doing nightmare modes, where 1 heal not going off causes the tank to die...something that was there even after tier 2 launched....after all the broken fundementals, I finally had enough, as did many I imagine.
Is your point of view, people have been talking about the death of swtor for more than a year, never happened and it wont happen anytime soon. Since the f2p model they have earning new subs and players everyday, and the Cartel Market is a huge success for them and thats good for us because they have more money and resources to keep making new content. You are talking about STO, you remember how it was at launch and 1 year after?, look at it now and imagine how good and huge can be swtor with at least 1 more year of updates. They are working in really a lot of thigs for this game, features and content that will come, like the new space combat proyect. But the hate around this game is just huge, swtor is not swg, is weird because now everyone is talking about how good SWG was, but when the game was still running SWG was everything but good.
TOR's environments were actually always pretty good and with a lot of interesting places to visit. Except no one ever bothered to explore the vast majority of the planets because there was absolutely no reason to, and the design still failed by cornering off Republic and Empire from each other, which totally prevented world pvp.
As for the rest, I'm only coming back the game when I see some serious progression in the fields of open PvP / grind reduction and see real indication that they will continually succeed to update it in engaging new ways.
That's still missing atm.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Some people are unable to admit the obvious weaknesses and design errors of SWTOR, then they preach the "fully voiced" feature to excuse the lack of gameplay mechanics. Voiceover =/= fun gameplay. No need to throw in your old hater/fanboy paradigm.
Would be nice if SWTOR cutscenes wouldn´t lack cinematic quality, because there is not a single cutscene with camera movement, guess you didn´t notice that 99% of cutscenes show two characters standing side by side, waving hands. Still better cutscenes than GW2 with their generic still background though.
Yes, I can say TSW and AoC are objectively better made games than SWTOR, by simply making a bullet point feature list, I thought SWTOR would set a new level of quality for MMOs, it did not, it was two steps back plus voiceovers, end of story.
Regarding cutscene cinematography in TSW:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIolXCBH2Es
You don´t need to be a film student to notice the differences right?
Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw
Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
.
.
The Return of ELITE !
You mean just like you are unable to admit the obvious flaws and shortcomings of TSW and AOC? i think you are the last person from whom i need a lesson in objectivity. I can give you a long list of what is wrong with TSW and why it tanked so badly that they had to go B2P to save their asses within few months. But this is not the right forums for it.
So yeah my hater / fanboy paradigm fits in perfectly. I have seen the role reversal way too many times.
And i think you already discussed about the cinematoography of cut scenes in length few months back..didn't you? i have no intention to get into same stale argument again.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Concerning your sig:
Recent historic research has proven that Caligula was the victim of a defamtion campaign. And I would *assume* the word against the so called "entitlement" of Online Gamers is just the same. Sometimes just because dozens of people claim this and that person is oh so wicked/selfish, it's more often a campaign. A slander. Most of his life was actually made up for political reasons.
Caligula is dead a long time. No one speaks for him, but everyone takes his name now as the epitome of madness and evil. Wrongly so. And while his name today is highly irrelevant, maybe the fact that both, Caligula and the Online Gamer are targets of a slander campaign, that does say something. In fact I think most Online Gamers are far too easily satisfiend, brushed off, lulled and lied to.
And despite I owe Emperor Caligula nothing, I hate injustice and slander. Even to a long dead Roman Emperor.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Haha, I also thought that looked like a Krogan!
this april 14th coming your way :- Coin Wars : The Cartel Republic.
(Quoting a very vocal swtor offical forum poster)
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
It's just more bitching and moaning from the same people that have been hounding this game since day one, really, there must be one giant void in their lives for them to consistently bitch and moan about a videogame for 1 year +. I like SWTOR but I don't go to the forums because these losers have been obsessing with their irrational hatred for so long.
You'd think that at some point they'd move on but no, their hatred is an utter obsession which brings into question their self-esteem and dysfunctional lives, they seriously need to chill-out and take a look at themselves. Anyone marginally functional knows what real problems are in real life, they wouldn't waste time on something like this.
because you don't have any conclusive arguments, and most likely no professional knowledge about cinematography and cutscene dramaturgy.
Anyway, you only see financial success as a success, I see intelligent game design for niche audiences as a success.
I don't care about box sales of shiny blockbuster games for the lowest common denominator gamer and products stuffed with big marketing budgets.
Secrets of Dragon?s Spine Trailer.. !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw
Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
.
.
The Return of ELITE !
Like i said been there and done that. Not even going to touch the whole discussion again. Already did enough circle jerking with you few months back . Nothing good came out of that duscussion.
I see financial success as a success because that is what pays the bill and keeps the wheels turning. When i talk about financial success i am talking from prespective of companies who have to pay their employees who in turn have to pay their bills and put food on the table. What is your definition of success means nothing in the real world where people jobs and lives are on the line.
So yeah maybe ypu don't care about the box sales but companies do because if sales are not good they have to lay off people like they did at TSW. As far as common denominator goes..all MMOS are simplistic at its best. If you want a real challenge i suggest play chess.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
It also depends on your playstyle, and if you have a lot of expereince in games or even a bit in MMOs. If your playstyle happens to like gear grinds that is fine for you, but how many veterans of MMOs like gear grinds that are needllessly tedious for the little reward?
MMOs with teen ratings and WoW clones are basically gear grinds and are successful for simple designs that kids are willing to play and dont care as much about other kinds of games. Thier tastes are simple, and this is lucrative for a company.
On the other hand, veteran players, who also might like gear grinds, have more experience, and generally do not want to repeat in the least a low quality gear grind that at least makes the 'jounrey' not feel like a grind in innovative ways.
And MMOs are complete packages and its not about the journey only but also the end game. Unfortunately swtors journey was too costly reducing the end game development.
And despite that, if you want to talk about swtor's success then going f2p to over compensate for the lack of developing end game is not a good sign of development, and factors like a teen rated game, a wow clone, and the SW IP help to keep those numbers alive. Also a cash shop giving them extra money, which some people are against due to how it can be exploitive of peoples behavior in overspending or gambling with random packs to be completionists.
So alternatively, trying to go away from exploiting people's bad behavior requires more intelligent desgin that does not require inexpereinced players to put up with lower quality features that pay the bills to make the game 'successful'. The reason why someone would want a company to try to be innovative to a niche market is that in the end the content better suites someone that does not have to be on the hamster wheel to just do other content.
For example: Pvp - its competitive. But there is a gear grind. And there is a rinse and repeat.
Lvling - repeat raids/ops/FPs - when the challenge is essentially the same, but also not intuitive in the first place. WHich means a lot of the raids dont allow for players to adapt to the situation in natural ways becuase of the cost and time to try challenging content (die rerun through trash, and not clear signs of what is actually going on to kill a boss requires a lot of trial and error) so people will research online and memorize strategy which makes repeating content like a grind because its not dynamic once a person memoraizes those sequences.
These are the problems with a themepark game, and releasing peices of more content resets the gear grind.
A better comprimise would not put people in a situation to want to do gear grinds for the same pvp bracket for example.
Or at least makes raids/OPs/FPS dynamic and less punishing so people can learn from them with trial and errorand have more fun. (e.eg change the map, rotate boss abilties differently and allow for environmental situations which with a map change means different things)
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble