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TIRED of SWTOR hate!

velmaxvelmax palm bay, FLPosts: 216Member Uncommon
I'm not trying to be on the defense side on this game, as i did wish that Bioware had done a  little better with it. But i've seen SO much hate on this game; that i question myself what has made people hate it so much? I've probably have never seen so much hate on a mmo like swtor! I know people troll.... but this is more then trolling, if everyone hates on it. So tell me, why?


  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member

    i try not to post in these forums much because of how i feel towards the game.. but ill tell you a lot is from people who loved star wars galaxies and the freedom that game provided and many were looking for an updated improved version of the original.. but even if you were not expecting that and were expecting a themepark set in the star wars universe for many it still fell flat in so many ways...

    Star wars is a huge IP.. one of my favorites of all time.. if a game uses a no name IP and is bad usually no one gives two shits and moves on shortly after release(usually).. but when it's an IP you have grown up with and love you can expect people to be a little more passionate about how they react to it.

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk LiverpoolPosts: 1,411Member Rare

    I think a lot of the resentment comes from how things went with SWG when it was destroyed by the NGE. Then it got shut down over licensing to make room for SWTOR, which to be honest , was a bit of a disappointment to a lot of people, not just ex SWG players.

    TOR was ok in some respects but it had problems with the end game PvP zone, no raids for the hardcore PvE crowd, the space flight was on rails. The character customisation was basic, the races all looked the same, just different colours. All in all a major let down when you look at how EA hyped it up, and when you look at the massive amount of cash they threw into it. The whole thing just got old very quickly. Anyone that had played WoW (or any clone released after) had seen most of what TOR had to offer within a few levels.

    A lot of people called it WoW with lightsabers, and I can understand why. It was a very generic, tightly funneled themepark with average graphics and gameplay we've seen before. They only thing remotely new was the crew skills and having the companion out.

    Then when it went F2P they monetised the most rediculous things, like hotbars and the head gear on/off toggle. Insanity! You wonder why people hate on TOR? The game was mediocre and priced higher then any other MMO before or since. Perhaps they're not hating on TOR so much as EA. But that's another rant.

    If you enjoy it, that's fine. But you have to try and understand that not everyone feels that way, and maybe they have good reason not too.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Yahoo, COPosts: 4,990Member

    Some of them come up with some good zingers time after time. This game is the gift that keeps on giving.

    I never really let those that hate a game I enjoy get to me. To be honest I tend to get more irked by fanboys of a game or one I even enjoy that gloss over or ignore issues.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    I feel like I should be brought in as a special consultant for this thread.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • TimEisenTimEisen Columnist Posts: 2,814Member Rare

    To understand that u must first understand how Star Wars fans can both love and hate george lucas...

    I used to role-play a Warrior Priest now I role-play a writer.
    "Basically if a Ninja Turtle used it, or close to it, I like it."
  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Phoenix, AZPosts: 2,759Member Uncommon

    Its partly due to fans of SWG wanting a new SWG and being pissed SWTOR wasnt it, and partly the fact that well, its freaking Star Wars. One of the hugest IPs around, and the biggest budget ever spent on an MMO, with a massive company / dev team creating it.... and they created more of the same crap. They could have gone such a different route with many things in the game and actual made it very unique, but they settled for the equivalent of WoW with Lightsabers and more voiceovers.

    Its just very disappointing to watch companies turn potential gold into crap. Happens all the time in all forms of media. Just look at how many amazing books have been turned into atrocious movies or TV shows. My biggest example of dissappointment there was the Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind. Huge fan of the books for years, one of my favorite series of all time. Heard they were making the TV show Legend of the Seeker and couldnt wait. Then I wanted to stab myself in the brain and cut out the memories of the show. It wasnt even the same freaking story anymore. Who people were, their relations to eachother, etc were all changed, hell entire locations and races of people were just completely wiped from existence. Nothing beyond the very 1st episode had any real correlation to anything that happened in the books.

    Youre just left thinking "Really? You already had this completely awesome thing that exists. All you had to do was bring it to life in a cool way. But somehow you managed to turn it into THIS? Why did you even bother with the IP? You could have named it anything else and it could have been decent, but it doesnt even fit the IP anymore."

  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk LiverpoolPosts: 1,411Member Rare
    Originally posted by Xobdnas
    To understand that u must first understand how Star Wars fans can both love and hate george lucas...


  • velmaxvelmax palm bay, FLPosts: 216Member Uncommon
    Thanks for the responses, i definitely like understanding other people's perspective. 
  • AcorniaAcornia Spring Lake, RIPosts: 200Member Uncommon

    I'll step in one last time.  I quit SWTOR because it was just not fun for me to play.

    The game engine is very subpar.  When the zone could hold maybe 20 people at max, quests that said you had to swim to someplace and you end up walking across.  The game had a very dead feeling to it with static mobs just standing around, and near empty cites when you go there to do quests.

  • MardukkMardukk Posts: 2,059Member Uncommon

    I think it was fairly good, but many people went into it that were burnt out and bone tired of WoW.  SWTOR was not far enough away from WoW.  It lacked any form of freedom with an amazing IP that screams let me roam the galaxy.  I thought SWG was boring but as I've aged and played the MMO's that have come after it, I appreciate it much more.


    I hope someday that there will be a bladerunner/star wars dark sci fi MMO.  Not post apocalyptic...why do they all make it that?  With lots of freedom to explore and freedom to do what we want and pay the consequences for it.


    Edit:  Some of the complaints I've heard about SWTOR make no sense to me after the games most of these people came from.  Static lifeless cities...what?  No other MMO that released at the time of SWTOR was any better.  You would think linear mind numbing quest hubs would piss people off more than NPC's standing or walking but noooo.

  • TimEisenTimEisen Columnist Posts: 2,814Member Rare

    Ok, here it is. They spent a bagillion dollars on vo while we forum folk begged them not to. In beta from 1 to 4 they ignored pages upon pages of posts asking for swtor to be more than a wow wannabe so they would make it appeal to more main stream players. The last thing, and this makes me the most angry, rather than be happy with roughly 250k star wars and serious mmo fans and make a revolutionairy mmo they made a watered down corporate pos that was both star wars and mmo in name only. Greed and artistic sacrifice at its worst. When you compromise your soul and turn your back on the people that made you, you are destined to fail, and fail they did.

    I used to role-play a Warrior Priest now I role-play a writer.
    "Basically if a Ninja Turtle used it, or close to it, I like it."
  • TsumoroTsumoro EozeaPosts: 427Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by velmax
    I'm not trying to be on the defense side on this game, as i did wish that Bioware had done a  little better with it. But i've seen SO much hate on this game; that i question myself what has made people hate it so much? I've probably have never seen so much hate on a mmo like swtor! I know people troll.... but this is more then trolling, if everyone hates on it. So tell me, why?

    I think a lot of people hate on this because its what the 'trend' is at the moment. People are like sheep and don't want to feel out of touch with things so they just follow the herd. However, there were many issues with this game that I had, none of them about the core mechanics so to speak but i'll list them. But as I do, please bare in mind my opinions of this game are from Beta, launch and a couple of months from then onwards. 


    I actually got into the beta of this game and I was very excited. The game started of strong, then I began to have my reservations. After each play session you had, you filled in a survey where I conveyed my concerns. Of course, they weren't headed as were many other players not heaeded. I think, they were too far committed with the game with what they money had been spent on and were looking to push it out the door to get some of that money back that had been spent. Later it infuriated me to learn that one of the guys working on the project blamed the fans because they had built the game based on our advise and we were slamming them because it. Essentially, in spirit, they had built a KOTOR 3 game with multiplayer and NOT an MMO. 


    Now I played characters on both Republic and Empire and played through all the stories, some good, some okay and some meh. Thats not an issue, not everything will be a 'winner' to each person as story enjoyment is always subjective. 

    Now, considering the story was meant to be this fourth pillar nonsense they were going on about it was painting a picture that 'your' choice mattered in shaping your journey and the interactions around you. Sadly, this was never the case, they essentially gave you dialog options... but all paths led to Rome so to speak. Sure, you could kill this person, or not kill this person, or save this person or not etc etc. But these choices did not affect anything in the story other than the decision made at that time. With regards to the Light side and dark side points, essentially the morality engine in this game it really did not change how others regarded you. Your morality was always centric and never cast outwards to the world you lived in, apart from the odd jibe or remark. For example, as a Jedi I slept with a woman, then lied I had done it to my master, it earnt me dark side points but nothing about that encounter added any shape or direction to the future. 

    Then we move to very lack luster environments. Things looked pretty, but lacked any oomph to them, they were eseentially all the same thing apart from some rare exceptions. This made me feel that going to other planets kinda boring, they all had a tile set and a gimmick but over all, they just felt bland and lifeless. 

    Speaking of planets, it is a very linear progression, you consume planets like you would if you were that big planet eating robot from the transformer movie, you know, the one that turns Megatron into Galgatron.. forgot it's name. Essentially you moved planet to planet without any need to revist any of the other planets. There was very little incentive or reward to do so. So you all ended up on Illum, doing dailies which would take you about 2 months of continuation in order to get your Epic and although fun the first couple of rounds, very tedious when doing it EVERY day because it was the ONLY thing to do. 

    Speaking of grinds, elite or epic mobs, these are listed as Group quests or even the HARD quests you get when you complete a planey were such a chour to do. It was a missed opputunity in my opinion because it was something I could of seen used to reward those for dedication with something fun or quicky. But you soon learn that aside from the additional story there is no real benefit in doing so. 

    Gear, although I believe the models have been updated they initially looked terrible, absolutely diabolical and it suffers with all End game content MMO's where everyone and everything begins to look a like. The Raiding gear and token gear including all of the tiers all had the same armour design, just in different colours. The gear was not impressive at all nor did it make me want to earn it, I found the art absolutely deplorable especially when given a freaking wonderful palette such as Star Wars!!! There is so much ART in the canon of star wars, from the movies, comics and books as well as some unique fan made art work that you would of thought their artists would of come up with something more heroic and imaginative. But no, they did not alas and some might argue that the gear is more 'canon'  with the universe they need to also accept that this is an MMO and requires more creative flair to get people interested. 

    Raiding in the game was sooooooooooo much a freaking hassle, I think by the time Rise of the Rakghouls came out (which was very fun to be honest) they still had not fixed their raids. Gharj would bug out so freaking much as would the platforms of the first raid. Kaggies Palace was a little bit better to be honest, but the hinderances to this raids made it very hard to enjoy especially when going in with a lot of people as you try and problem solve and work around the bugginess of the content. 

    Raiding, for me bugged me the most to be honest. Not because of its content, but more to do with its out of freaking no-where relevance. Normally in games, you have a lore established and a villain or antagonist established so everything you are doing within the game works to that end. Which is what they had with Darth Malgus (whatever his name is) but they kill him (quite epically) in one of the latter flashpoints. So, you kinda get a 10 min dialog introduction right at the end of this Raid encounter you are meant to give a crap about... but don't... because essentially for you, your story quest is done as is the main villain of the piece dead. So your purpose, your mission and goal is all but gone!

    I just found it very weak that a game centric to story just kinda shoe-horned these raids into the game because they knew they had to have them. 

    Crafting itself was very unique and did take up some of the 'gathering' burdon. I also found that because of which it made the world seem rather lifeless. People just did all the crafting and gathering from the safety of the star port or their ship which made world interaction rather dull and I feel also harmed the economy very very badly. Essentially, there was nothing to trade and things that were about the trade were binded to you. The only thing I could sell with any level of consistancy were the companion items. I did like the differen't versions of items you could make by unlocking them by crafting them a certain amount of times, that was a good system. But, it would of been better served to make crafting a bit more a grind and exploration more potent in addition to having some fun and unique things thrown in. Typically, you would very seldom use anything you made from crafting that you couldn't get from questing. The end game part of crafting was very costly and time consuming but the items were rewarding and compairable to raid based gear. One of the people in my guild literally maxed everything, every single combination and outcome, they put a lot of love into it hoping for something cool and ultimately it was nothing more but a cash sink. 

    Companions... by the god what a missed opputunity there as well! You are the main character, you are centric to the development to your own story. You pick up companions as you go, however they are kinda flat and 2 dimensional and sure you can romance them but it is kinda strange and doesnt feel organic. In games where you have companions they should each have their own motivations and you apart of them either succeeding or failing those motivations. However what you do is level up their interest enough to get a new dialog scene from them. Sometimes they go off on their own adventures and tell you about them. What should of happened is that these adventures were shared, they are part of your team and you should go with them and flesh out their back stories. Much like the companions of Mass Effect. It would of made your story and interactions with your companions seem more organic, real and would even make the romance feel less strained. I was shouting at the screen literally because I wanted to go on Fourex's adventures with him!

    PvP wasn't bad, needed some improvements in some areas, more to do with stuns and balance issues, but the concepts were sound and cool. Like the Hutt ball, sadly getting people to work together is a little bit harder than the actual participation of the actual arenas.


    In closing, I played for around 3 months, not including beta which I was in. Essentially you are playing KOTOR with multiplayer and your story ends and then you are shoe horned into other stuff with little motivation or care about it. Raiding was buggy and although they had their quirks, not everything was very interesting. You were then presented with the End game content which basically meant you did your dailies on Illum, then... that was it, you waited until Raid night. There was nothing to really distract you with aside Datacrons. 


    Now Datacrons are a good idea, they shouldnt of been the case where they rewarded you stat increases though. It kinda made it feel essentially to have them all. Especially the group based one which I think was a +10 on the star port. The grappling system of which was very buggy. These should of unlocked cool things, fun things, little perks and so forth, like pets, cosmetics etc to show your accomplishments. 

    I also forgot world bosses, ugh these were tiresome. Easily encounter with a large enough swarm of you which rewarded you with gear. But, not very interesting in design nor encounter mechanics. 

    In beta when I did the surveys as well as when I left I felt, and still do that the game needed the following. 

    • Reputation system (now added I believe) which rewarded you with cool things like pets and so forth, also rival factions and light/dark side factions to invest into. To flesh your character out a bit. 
    • Datacrons to be cosmetic and non-essential. They are meant to 'reward' players that adventure, not to be a requirement to help play. 
    • More art on the gear, to make people feel at least a little unique!
    • The story to shape the encounters you take part in and to shape your story. As well as the decisions you make having a greater impact. Some impacts giving you benefits and restrictions. 
    • Reasons for returning to a planey, be it rep, gimmicks, fun etc. 
    • More indepth crafting, character enchancements and trinkets of the like which make the investment and the economy more viable. 
    • Cut down on the amount of travel, people want to spend their time playing, not walking. 
    • They said heroic combat, but nothing felt heroic, you essentially just fought packs of weaker mobs. Numbers do not mean heroic. 
    • The world to feel more alive, NPC's talking with each other. Little touches here and there to make it feel like stuff is going on when your not there. 
    • Distractions such as chess, pod racing or whatever you want really to make the game have more 'breathers' and 'distractions'.
    • Companions should have their own motivations and ideals, companions should leave if displeased, or love you if pleased. You should also be able to help them with their problems and goals. 
    • Combat to be upgraded a bit, some abilities feel so underwhelming, as a tank trooper I felt kinda boring with the stuff I could do and the animations seem to be a bit buggy. Like how I would charge would have me sometimes flying into the air to butt someone with my gun. Looked silly. 
    I really could go on and on, but I have to get ready for work. 
    I'll finish on this, SWTOR has still a lot of potential. Although its F2P model doesn't suit me, it does a lot of people and for those who love star wars, being able to experience an MMO around it is a treat. As a gamer, I just didn't get on with it, which was very sad considering I was looking to move from WoW to it. I was very bored in the later stages of that game, and I had alts and leveled them too. But there is only so much you can do before the same content becomes a bit tedious to do. Now I understand they have made strides with the game, improvements here and there and I imagine if they had adopted the B2P method Funcom had, I would be playing now snapping up all the DLC. 
    But as it stands, its not the game for me and a lot of people. 
    I would also love to hear a counter arguement to my posting about what they love about this game as mine is very negative, but it is also my personal experience with the game. So, if you love the game please say so and say why you love it :)

  • ego13ego13 Reno, NVPosts: 267Member

    As a preface I must say; I'm not a Star Wars fan.  I like the world, the setting, however, you can't just toss Star Wars on something and have me like it as you can so many SW Fanboys.

    Given that...this game failed on so many levels.  MMORPG?  No, not really.  Linear game with "online elements" similar to MMORPG's?  Yes, very much so.  This game, hands down, has the WORST replayability of any other game, mainly because no matter which class you play or which race you play you get to go through the same exact story and follow the same exact path through the planets.  Was this necessary?  No, not at all.  This is, sadly, what happens when you let a console gaming company create an "open universe" that really is just a segmented single player game that requires a connection and dealing with other retards that can barely function.


    I had fun with many elements, however, when it went back to leveling up your character again (outside of pvp) for any class other than tank classes you basically had to play support to your companion OR make your companion be only support.


    These are just a couple of my issues, really, the hate is well deserved and if I were an actual fan I could go on at even more length, fortunately I'm not.

    Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.


  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG MelbournePosts: 1,265Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by velmax
    TIRED of SWTOR hate!

     Then don't read the forums. Problem solved.

    Save your energy from trying to understand why even. Better spent on doing other more productive things.

  • tristanryantristanryan Elkton, VAPosts: 233Member
    Originally posted by Xobdnas
    Greed and artistic sacrifice at its worst. When you compromise your soul and turn your back on the people that made you, you are destined to fail, and fail they did.


  • CorehavenCorehaven Colorado Springs, COPosts: 1,533Member Uncommon

    Well OP, since you've seen a lot of hate threads and posts regarding Swtor I'm very sure they included what they hated about the game in the very rants you are referring to.  Now you come here and want to know why?  Basically asking for more. 


    I can't really see the point of thise thread at all. 


    You say you're tired of Swtor hate, then create a thread askying why people hate it, therefore inviting more of the same stuff you've already obviously been reading.  What could possibly be the point of that?

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member



    Nice post, I read it and can't really disagree with what was said.  I like the part about Darth Malgus too - SWTOR built that villain up, only to just have him accidentally fall over a cliff in a drunken stupor, metaphorically.  Afterwards it's like .. huh?


    I would only add that SWTOR relased far before it was ready (ala Warhammer Online also by EA).  Bugs were everywhere and that only helped drive fans away.  How long was that Illum daily bugged .. the +10 stat datacrom was a frustrating mess also .. laser didn't work, or you couldn't pick up the color crystals .. or one of them, think the blue.  Bugs that just sat and sat, and sat... couldn't drop quests .. Ilum crapped up quest logs with unnecessary garbage quests... etc etc (I mention the older bugs since this is your timeframe)

    Now some stuff got fixed, and Ilum was fixed by making it go away, but new bugs keep cropping up.  And bugs still don't get address in a timely maner, if at all.  It's EA's philosophy that pisses folk off.  Stuff in the cash shop works fine though, and gets released on a much more consistent schedule .. hmm!!!


    It wasn't any wonder why EA's customer service stunk .. they made a game that begged for multiple tickets per account, weekly, which overloaded them.  And still does, to some degree.  I've given up with tickets though, I just would get a bot auto-dontcare response, so why bother.

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  • MysteryBMysteryB Midland, TXPosts: 353Member Uncommon

    I think the second comment is correct, Star Wars Galaxies gave players more freedom than any MMO before it (or since) and the fact that SWTOR isnt nearly as open, not to mention that with 200 MILLION DOLLARS they made a WoW clone.


    Dont get me wrong I am a subscriber to SWTOR atm but if City of Heroes or Star Wars Galaxies were around I wouldnt be.

    Mystery Bounty

  • OnomasOnomas USAPosts: 1,130Member Uncommon

    [mod edit] There were like 300k tops subs for SWG, more than double that quit SWTOR and hate that game. Has nothing to do with SWG, has to do with the time they spent, the amount of money dropped on this game, and it failing to live up to a true and epic mmorpg they claimed it would be. Along with many other flaws.  Most the SWG fans already knew ahead of time this wouldnt hold up,  so stop blaming the SWG fans.

    [mod edit]

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by velmax
    I'm not trying to be on the defense side on this game, as i did wish that Bioware had done a  little better with it. But i've seen SO much hate on this game; that i question myself what has made people hate it so much? I've probably have never seen so much hate on a mmo like swtor! I know people troll.... but this is more then trolling, if everyone hates on it. So tell me, why?

    It isn't just SWTOR, this forum is just a cess pit of vitriol against any 'themepark' MMO. Don't take it personally.

  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG MelbournePosts: 1,265Member Uncommon

    It annoys me whenever someone mention 300k subs in 2003 and thought that was "bad"...

    Because whenever they say that it is clear that they have no understanding of the mmo gaming market at the time [mod edit]

    300k is A LOT of players to play any mmo back in 2003. There are no million pops mmo before WoW. Most mmos sit around that figures.

    It is like comparing 50 bucks in 1900 to 50 bucks in 2013... 50 bucks in 1900 can probably buy you a lot of things consider back in 1900 Ford's first automobile cost $100.

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Phoenix, AZPosts: 2,759Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Onomas
    For all you blaming this hate on SWG fans, please shut up. There were like 300k tops subs for SWG, more than double that quit SWTOR and hate that game. Has nothing to do with SWG, has to do with the time they spent, the amount of money dropped on this game, and it failing to live up to a true and epic mmorpg they claimed it would be. Along with many other flaws.  Most the SWG fans already knew ahead of time this wouldnt hold up,  so stop blaming the SWG fans. And true swg fans are still playing SWG ;)

    This wasnt a discussion of why people left the game. It was why is there so much hate on the forums about it. Plenty of SWG vets on these forums, many of them who are pissed that SWTOR was not SWG2.

  • ktanner3ktanner3 lakeland, FLPosts: 4,050Member Uncommon
    OP, perhaps you haven't been around here long enough but this site has been a hater's haven for as long as I've been here and that's been since 2006. It basically all boils down to what happened on Nov. 2005 when SOE revamped SWG. The sheer number of people that were raving after that move led to a separate "vet" forum within the SWG forum. Unfortunetly, it never stayed contained and every new MMO forum that gets released has had to deal with them. Just check the fun that's going on over at the ESO forum. TOR got a little more ever since pre-release when the devs made it clear well in advance that this wasn't going to be SWG 2. It's been a little over year since release and most haters have moved on from TOR with the exception of the same few suspects who can't get over the fact that people like this game.

    Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  • triton54xtriton54x canton, GAPosts: 39Member Uncommon

    noone sloves star wars as much as me and i was sad when  this was a flop

    i knew it would be crap when i bought the game and installed it and realiezed i had to pay for a time card to get the first month free. which was crazy . not that it was about the money. its  was the time cuz i was wanting to play sooo bad

  • stayontargetstayontarget Tacoma, WAPosts: 6,429Member Uncommon
    Unfulfilled expectations.

    Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...

This discussion has been closed.