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Originally posted by Burntvet Problem is that game companies want "millions" of customers, instead of a few hundred K that stick around for years. It is just a matter of short term vs long term game and business management. Excepting WoW, EvE is likely the most profitable P2P game in history, because CCP managed their primary game well over the long term. How many other companies have gone under, been sold to avoid bankruptcy, or are on the way to one of those, because of short term thinking? Most of them. But the developers in the genre now are more interest in a "quick win" than in long-term success. That being because doing things well over the long-term, is hard.
Don't leave out that most gamers now want to be the hero (Center of attention), want everything quick and easy, have no patience and seem to feel thinking is hard.
MMORPG's wouldn't be going the route they are if the masses weren't screaming for it, nor opening their wallets for it. Sadly...MMORPG's will soon be extinct in the sense of what made them different from other forms of gaming.
Originally posted by Waterlily If I look at these add on this site and on other gaming sites, I have to wonder why every MMO is suddenly catering to the Xbox pansy demographic of gamers. Can we get a real MMORPG for adults that takes RPG serious and makes a dangerous world. I don't want maps, I don't want quest markers, I don't want tutorials, I don't want twitch gameplay, I don't want solo play, I want a real MMO that makes me feel like I'm in danger if I don't find help. Bring on the naked corpse runs, bring on the grind. I thought the WoW plague was bad for the gaming industry, how wrong I was after I tried Guild Wars 2 and Tera, that's the real plague. Can we get our PC games back, PC gamers are the master race, why is everyone turning into sissies too affraid to accept a challenge.
What game has had this for you?
With the logical follow-ups....
Why don't you play the game that 'showed you the way' ? I bet it is still up.....
If no game exists with the features you 'know' make it the best, how exactly do you 'know' they are the best features to have?
Now, as far as calling people 'sissies', 'master race', cowards, etc. etc. You should stop saying things like that, you embarass yourself more than others.
LOL at this topic and replies.
So i guess there are people who actually believe they are a 'master race' only because they are PC gamers who love to play hard core titles.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."-Luke McKinney
Originally posted by Doogiehowser LOl at this topic and replies. So i guess there are people who actually believe they are a 'master race' only because they are PC gamers who love to play hard core titles. Hahaha!!
To identify the inferior, look for the badge of superiority they proudly display.
Originally posted by nariusseldon wow .. this rant again? Vote with your wallet & your feet. Devs has no obligation to produce the game you want.
What? You don't think semi-anonomous posts on un-affiliated fan sites will change game quality?
You have a lot of explaining to do to almost every member of this site.
no matter what people will complain games are too easy... but I'm curious as to what people really want? you want to get one shot by every mob in the game unless you dodge out of the way of every attack? what is hard? is having steep death penalities and overly punishing system equate to a hard game? Like most things difficulty is such a subjective thing it's very difficult on many levels for a developer to balance out what is challenging for people and what is just downright frustrating and annoying...
Sometimes it seems people want to run up to a mob and you have to solve Einstein's equations for a rotating black hole to kill it.. would that be hard enough for you?
a lot of what you ask for OP the majority of MMO players it seems does not want which is why you aren't getting games with such systems much anymore
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Step 1: Devs look at wow's success.
Step 2: they decide to make their game pretty much a carbon copy of wow to try to appeal to those gamers, and decide to be lazy insted of trying to do their own unique thing.
Step 3: Game fails hardcore and is shut down after 2-3 months or goes f2p to stay open.
Wild Star for example is going to fall on its face hard, since it is really just the newest carbon copy wow clone in a new skin. People who have left wow, or rift do not want to play a new mmorpg that is bascally the exact same thing they were just playing. This is why so many mmo's are failing lately.
ANyway yeah I wish they would add some of the old school back, like taking a few months to hit level cap even as a hardcore player, insted of 2-3 days in most mmo's now a day, this is also why they fail, they hit lv cap, raid, but there is no use for the raid gear except more raids, none of these games add something else that needs gear from raids to be done so they game just gets old fast. They also need more to do, there is a serious lack of fun things to do in most mmorpgs these days, I'm sorry but running random fetch quest nubmer 139562 just is not appealing or fun at all.
MMO's these days also have to stop being so soloable, they should require you to party to advance like FF11 used to back in the day. Funny thing is FF11 is still going strong with a good playerbase, mostly because when you get stuff done in FF11 you get that special sense of accomplishment that you do not get in wow and its clones.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
If a game offered superior group play with exciting situations, intelligent foes and tactical complexity while simultaneously offering a lesser solo experience for the same content then a great number of the player base will still choose to solo that content regardless of how enriching the group dynamic might be.
When grouping is its own reward people still disregard it because they are more interested in the occasional treat/'pat on the back'/trinket and numerical advancement than the experience of playing with other people and socializing. Is forced grouping the answer?
"You can't experience this world unless you follow around a group of people you likely loathe and in the rare case you find a group of like minded individuals you can tolerate you still wouldn't group all the time unless it was required."
So, yet another solo vs group thread in the guise of 'hardcore' debate. Let's face it, most of these games provide enough of a rough framework for roleplaying and socializing but people are far more concerned with the advancement mechanics and the acquisition of 'shinies'.
If you could solo all the raids in a game you would solo them. Does this mean I want a game full of raids I can do solo and get no additional reward for grouping for? Hell no.
Improved rewards for grouping is this only way to get people motivated to group. Also there is far more wrong with modern MMOs than the lack of grouping, the whole social dynamic has gone and gamers are forced to play twitch style games more and more.
Originally posted by Eir_S Originally posted by Doogiehowser Playing XBOX makes you a pansy and PC games a tough bad ass? You learn something new every day on these forums.
Yeah, finding out that PC gamers are "the master race" was enough "education" for me for one day. I swear I've heard that term used dramatically somewhere before... hmmmm.
Originally posted by MuffinStump If a game offered superior group play with exciting situations, intelligent foes and tactical complexity while simultaneously offering a lesser solo experience for the same content then a great number of the player base will still choose to solo that content regardless of how enriching the group dynamic might be. When grouping is its own reward people still disregard it because they are more interested in the occasional treat/'pat on the back'/trinket and numerical advancement than the experience of playing with other people and socializing. Is forced grouping the answer? "You can't experience this world unless you follow around a group of people you likely loathe and in the rare case you find a group of like minded individuals you can tolerate you still wouldn't group all the time unless it was required." So, yet another solo vs group thread in the guise of 'hardcore' debate. Let's face it, most of these games provide enough of a rough framework for roleplaying and socializing but people are far more concerned with the advancement mechanics and the acquisition of 'shinies'.
I wonder if this argument could be made without sweeping generalizations and strawmen? It could be the challenge OP is looking for.
Down with easy-mode thinking!
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Originally posted by Quirhid I wonder if this argument could be made without sweeping generalizations and strawmen? It could be the challenge OP is looking for. Down with easy-mode thinking!
True, we need to take it easy now , It not like designer will change they mind in 1 or 2 years .
Maybe 10 years and we will see the change, lol
Honestly , everytime i play those new MMORPGs , only thought i have in my mind's "they are same"
I don't see much diffrence from MMO nowadays , follow your [quests] , max lvl then start endgame "gears grind".
I feel like eating "fast food" MMO. Yeah, you can finish it fast lol.
Nothings for you to discover , no adventure. Just follow [Quest] and you can finish everything.
When i said 10 years they will change , i don't think 10 years are enough for them to change they thought.
Maybe it will take forever.
Wtf are you supposed to be? The Hans and Franz of the mmo world? Least you could have done is thrown in a girly man somewhere for god's sake.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
"REAL MEN " don't play MMO's
Don't confuse forced grouping with difficulty. Much of the content in Asheron's Call was soloable yet was one of the most challenging MMO's I've played. There were certainly a lot of quests where groups were required for the disarming of puzzles or fighting a boss, etc., but the player had a lot of freedom in regards playing with other people. I've found other games where soloing is discouraged to be mostly disatisfying.
But then most people haven't played AC
May be the OP should play some ARPGs ... both D3 and PoE are known to be challenging. Or just play LOL .. i am sure there is a long long ladder to climb for him.
Well, though I agree with some of what you said such as no quest markers, and "danger" I personally like both group and solo play and prefer the new "action combat" method over tab targetting. Having said that...
I know more people than not who would say that playing games is "not" an adult thing and even some who think it's a big waste of time and more pansy than not.
I have a hard time thinking that pc video games are for the "real adults".
Originally posted by coretex666 I also want MMORPG which I could take a little more seriously. There is not a single one for me out there which would make me feel immersed and motivated to play for years to come. There are plenty of games which provide me with a quick relaxed fun, like WoW, GW2, Rift, etc. It is fine that they exist. When I come home from work, I am glad I can jump in WoW and play some RBGs, Arenas, etc. P.S. I have a feeling that this thread is gonna get ugly
This thread started ugly thanks to the hardcore OP...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Originally posted by aleosBecause apparently people that actually play games dont pay money for horrible games.
Your sig link, below, is to a fantastic article. Best one I've read, TBH. Thanks for sharing!
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Wow Clone! Hand Holding! Dumbed Down! Solo! Carebear! Casuals! Instant Gratification!
Op and sympathizers: why don’t you guys just copy and paste the above for your posts instead of making us read the entire rant. Ok?
I swear, it’s like a skipping disk in these forums sometimes.