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Free to play is not about the companies caring about their players. Free to play is about maximising profits.
Making the game so that players are highly incentivised to spend money (either to relax restrictions or remove grind) is not, for me, a step in the right direction, especially when most of the playerbase tend not to notice that to remain competitve, or remove enough restrictions to have fun, you will be paying as much or more than a standard subscription.
Titan will more than likely be a P2P title because WoW has done so well and companies tend to stick with what they know. Hearthstone will be a test for F2P transactions but I don't think it will translate to Titan becoming F2P.
Why even bother debating this? You're not going to change the oppositions oppinion. Any argument you come up with is not going to make sense to the others.
Originally posted by nariusseldon http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/ Not a MMO but still. It is a sign that Titan will also be F2P.
every online TCG is free to play. buying those packs to give you something other than a crappy starter deck...not so free
What happens when you log off your characters????.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMkDark Age of Camelot
No problem with F2P unless it gets play to win. Either have good F2P models like Aion or to a degree Tera, or do premium membership providing very little in cash shop and making P2P players have all the traditional Sub goodies at their disposal without having to 'buy' anything from a cash shop (maybe mounts but honestly saying thats 'okay' will end up pushing all cosmetics to being extra tacked on good lowers stuff you can earn in game).
I do NOT want B2P. In some form I see it being used in AAA due to the initial cost, however it ends up being more of a money milker in case of point Gw2 and The Secret world. Its essencially a full cash shop but with you having to BUY the game as well which to me is a no no. Gw2 has less but has the terrible 'pay cash for gold' concept (bad ratio but the fact its given in game is a BAD thing, promoting Pay to Win, and yes its Pay To Win when a game essencially offers the best gear you can buy for GOLD, part of the reason with trying to get people to dedicated more time to game for adding in slightly better items you can earn from farming) while secret world you need to pay to look any bit decent with cosmetics, with from what I seen little to no way to customize without it.
Originally posted by Tayah Wow has been a successful subscription based mmo with a shop for vanity items. I doubt they need to go free to play with Titan, and I'm betting they won't. Why would they? If it's a good mmo, people won't mind paying a sub fee and they'll spend money in the shop, just like they do with WoW. F2P and B2P mmo's are garbage, imo.
Wow is an exception though. Did you read this interview (http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/15/feature/7216/World-of-Warcraft-Ghostcrawler-on-Thunder-King-and-Azeroths-Future.html) with Ghostcrawler? He specifically addresses alternative payment systems, why they won't be shifting WoW's model anytime soon, and infers they will look at payment models as whatever best fits their game.
Notice they already have B2P with Warcraft, Starcraft, and Diablo franchises. Are those franchises garbage due to their payment model or were you just posturing from your soapbox talking straight out of your butt? WoW has been sub-locked and why would they upset their playerbase that seems happy with that payment system. The CCG game is sub-free with DLC because that's sort of how CCG is setup (reference LoN and MTG).
Narius is baiting a little, and assuming a whole lot, with the original post. Titan, whatever that is, will have whatever payment model suits it.
Originally posted by Torvaldr Narius is baiting a little, and assuming a whole lot, with the original post. Titan, whatever that is, will have whatever payment model suits it.
Sure .. and it can even be P2P. However, given the unpopularity of P2P, there is a good chance that Blizz will try something else. And i suppose we will find out in due time.
Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by Torvaldr Narius is baiting a little, and assuming a whole lot, with the original post. Titan, whatever that is, will have whatever payment model suits it.
I agree, but not because of this. I think Ghostcrawler's interview is a lot more telling. He basically said, yeah WoW is p2p because it's stupid to rock the boat, but everything else is open to whatever we think is best.
C'mon you were yanking the chain a little with the thread. It made me chuckle.
Originally posted by Torvaldr Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by Torvaldr Narius is baiting a little, and assuming a whole lot, with the original post. Titan, whatever that is, will have whatever payment model suits it.
Only because people let me. If they are more like you, calm and logical, instead of foaming whenever F2P is mentioned, there is no chain to yank.
And here I thought WoW was going F2P. WoW is Blizzard, right?
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
The industry is pushing hard for P2W to become accepted by consumers because that means more $$ out of your pocket and into theirs.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Originally posted by AlBQuirky And here I thought WoW was going F2P. WoW is Blizzard, right?
WOW is made by Blizz. Big difference. Blizz made more than 1 game, you know.
Originally posted by Arclan The industry is pushing hard for P2W to become accepted by consumers because that means more $$ out of your pocket and into theirs.
No .. it means free to me, and more $$$ out of someone else's pocket. You know, that is the phenomenon of whales. A small minority paying to subsidize everyone else.
Originally posted by nariusseldonOriginally posted by ArclanThe industry is pushing hard for P2W to become accepted by consumers because that means more $$ out of your pocket and into theirs.
Originally posted by Scorchien I dont see any scenario where Titan would be F2P at Launch , why would they .. and this is Blizz we are taliking about , they have 10 mill paying subs right now.... Now , Why would you not give that business model a chance to succeed with your Next product as it did with Wow... Or just ahh hell with it lets go F2P .............. i could see how that meeting would go ... And i thinkl you are taking to much out of the simple TCG with cash shop .. to relate it to Titan
To avoid a scenario where 9 million people drop their wow sub for a titan sub, and instead create an atmosphere conducive to a player keeping their wow sub AND playing titan.
Or how about to adjust their business model to the modern climate, because all indicators are that the success with WoW is an anomoly rather than the rule?
Or how about because they have discovered a f2p plan that not only makes them more money with fewer players
Or there's always, because we have so little information on Titan, any business model would be pure speculation, might as well be f2p.
....so I can think of a few scenarios where it would be possible
I don't get the obsession with F2P games. For example, World of Tanks. To me, it's a great game in which I have a lot of fun. It's free, and there's the MMO progression (you have to play for a while to get to a certain level, in this case a tank). If you pay you can get there quicker (premium, 50% more xp and silver) or just buy the xp and/or silver you need to get a certain tank. OR just buy a premium tank.
Now, they could've just made the game a $30 purchase (or whatever) with everyone having all the tanks unlocked. This would make gaming a lot more fun. It would be less of a chore. It's no wonder that a lot of consoles sell, it's just that console games tend to be more fun that their PC equivalents.
Obviously, if a game is F2P, you're going to have some grind (probably lots), which you can minimise by paying. I get it, the developers have to make some money, but damn, can't they just charge us 30-50 dollars and give us FUN? FUN, not a job, FUN!
First let me say I am not a fan of f2p, but I understand the reasons a company goes that route.
I would like to play devils advocate with people who support the f2p game model. Why does it matter if the shop goes p2w ... I mean you are already playing for free and some p2w items should not affect you, right?
Here is the thing, there are always people at game companies who want to push the edge of making money and making items that are desirable to the whales. Simple cosmetic gear can only entice whales so much and after awhile they will start looking for more and it may take them from your game. f2p games do not give a rats backside about anybody except the whales, and if enough whales ask for something trust me they may just get it. I know a company that shafted hundreds of users that had been hacked saying that they could not roll back to before the hacking, yet the few whales that had been hacked had everything and then some returned before the phone call ended. So a game that starts out with weapon and armor skins might go on to xp boosts or crafting/faction boosts. In the end playing a game for free means just that, you are free to play or you are free to leave.
I worked on two f2p games and I can say a little part of me died each time the cash shop manager came into a design meeting. She was a psych/sociology major who had always wanted to work in the industry. Well some of the things made the company a lot of money, but more or less ruined the game for anyone who wanted to play for free. Every time anyone talked gameplay or balance or fun, the answer was the gamers will buy it either because they are whales and will be unable to pass it up or they will be the ultra competitor and be unable to let the newb have the good stuff. The term divide and rule was the phrase she kept using. The players already divided themselves up into hardcore, carebear, raider, PvP, PvE, casual ... the rest is just like taking candy from a baby she would say.
Any model benefits the publisher and some more than others, but in the f2p games the publisher is holding all the cards.
Originally posted by Drakynn Is there any online card game that isn't F2P?Why would anyone P2P one jsut because it's blizzard?