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[Preview] Elder Scrolls Online: PAX East 2013 Impressions

13

Comments

  • NikopolNikopol The ZonePosts: 626Member Uncommon

    "I must offer this one caveat though. At least based on what I’ve played so far, it’s not as satisfying to play moment-to-moment as say, Skyrim. But anyone expecting a 1:1 recreation of that experience with ESO has their expectations set too high." - from the article

     

    To me, expecting moment-to-moment satisfaction on the level of Skyrim is not setting your expectations high. Sure, you lose a few key things in the translation to an MMO, but you also gain a few key things. I remember running around in Skyrim, really digging the experience, nevertheless unable to help thinking "This would be so much cooler if there were other players around." 

    So all things done right, I'd say the experience should be even more satisfying. After all, isn't that what a lot of TES fans always thought? "If only I could co-op this, it would be perfect!"

     

    By the way, from the stuff I've read, this game seems to lend itself well to co-op play; a previewer from Gamespot who admitted he didn't much like MMOs but really liked the TES games even said something like "It's like playing Skyrim with a friend".

    I hope they put some stuff that's really fun to duo in there. The 50+ and 50++ zones might be fun to duo...  People always go on about "soloing", but I say don't knock "duoing", either - it seems to be on the rise and can be much more fun. :)

     
  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,461Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Livnthedream
    Originally posted by BillMurphy
    Originally posted by Panzerbase
    And I'm hearing direct opposites on many of these points, that it is not living up to the name, that the character creation is asinine and needless with current implimation, and the closed world is telling of the departure from it's Skrim roots. My estimate is one of too much hype and too one too many biased opinions in the favor of the game. I guess money is the universal language of the world, well money under the table. 

    OR, Mike liked the game.

    /rolleyes

    But Bill, Mike also really likes Swtor, which sorta calls his opinion into question.

    wait what? No it doesn't. SWToR is a good game. It's just not a good game for people who wanted something else nor is it a great game at giving players something to do after level cap.

    but it's fun, it's clearly cast in the bioware way of making games.

    Heck, at PAX I met so many people who loved SWToR and even still played it.

    My guess is that "to each his own" applies here.

  • MaephistoMaephisto somewhere, DCPosts: 632Member

    I have a question for those who have played TESO:

    Does the combat you have experienced lead you to believe PvP will be fun and/or engaging?

    For example:  When I played Neverwinter, I could tell from the way the combat felt that the pvp was probably not going to be so good.

    image

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,461Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Maephisto

    I have a question for those who have played TESO:

    Does the combat you have experienced lead you to believe PvP will be fun and/or engaging?

    For example:  When I played Neverwinter, I could tell from the way the combat felt that the pvp was probably not going to be so good.

    But that's so subjective.

    can you perhaps help people out and tell us why Neverwinter's combat made you feel like pvp wasn't going to be "good"?

     

  • sk8chalifsk8chalif Montreal, QCPosts: 599Member Uncommon

    Video or this did not happend..

     

    no seriously for a game that is releasing in 2013 where are the video. lol

    i remember seeing alot of video from gw2 month and month before release, like gamecom and pax.

     

    did they had a demo at Pax east??

    image
    ~The only opinion that matters is your own.Everything else is just advice,~

  • LivnthedreamLivnthedream Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 555Member
    Originally posted by Sovrath

    wait what? No it doesn't. SWToR is a good game. It's just not a good game for people who wanted something else nor is it a great game at giving players something to do after level cap.

    but it's fun, it's clearly cast in the bioware way of making games.

    Heck, at PAX I met so many people who loved SWToR and even still played it.

    My guess is that "to each his own" applies here.

    Wait, Swtor is a "Bioware" game even though it has nothing to do with the studios that made Kotor, or ME, but ESO is not a TES game because "Bethesda" is not in the studio title?!

    As for "good" no. I wanted what it said it was selling, which is not what I received. Do not mistake me, I played the game for 2 months, played through the stories I wanted to play through, I most certainly "got my money's worth" but the game is flawed in far too many ways with a dev team that now lacks the money and knowledge to be able to fix it. Certainly not to the level Mike believes with articles like "Swtor coming out on top in 2013" and the like.

  • MaephistoMaephisto somewhere, DCPosts: 632Member
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by Maephisto

    I have a question for those who have played TESO:

    Does the combat you have experienced lead you to believe PvP will be fun and/or engaging?

    For example:  When I played Neverwinter, I could tell from the way the combat felt that the pvp was probably not going to be so good.

    But that's so subjective.

    can you perhaps help people out and tell us why Neverwinter's combat made you feel like pvp wasn't going to be "good"?

     

    Ummm....I could help you out by saying I trust your opinion.  Most topics here are subjective, I just concern myslef with the opinions of those I have grown to value more.

    To answer your question though, the combat lacks fluidity, felt clunky and overly encumbered.  Rooting is one main cause.  I played a trickster rogue, and based off of group combat, I could tell there were some imbalances (atleast at lower levels).  The rogue had a number of skills that synergized well with eachother early on.  I didnt experience anything like that with the cleric or control wizard. 

    (example:  the rogue can warp to the enemies back, stealth, use this ability that gives +50% dmg while in stealth, then stun the target.  This could be chained together in a matter of a couple of seconds.)

     

    image

  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member
    Originally posted by Livnthedream
    Originally posted by Sovrath

    wait what? No it doesn't. SWToR is a good game. It's just not a good game for people who wanted something else nor is it a great game at giving players something to do after level cap.

    but it's fun, it's clearly cast in the bioware way of making games.

    Heck, at PAX I met so many people who loved SWToR and even still played it.

    My guess is that "to each his own" applies here.

    Wait, Swtor is a "Bioware" game even though it has nothing to do with the studios that made Kotor, or ME, but ESO is not a TES game because "Bethesda" is not in the studio title?!

    As for "good" no. I wanted what it said it was selling, which is not what I received. Do not mistake me, I played the game for 2 months, played through the stories I wanted to play through, I most certainly "got my money's worth" but the game is flawed in far too many ways with a dev team that now lacks the money and knowledge to be able to fix it. Certainly not to the level Mike believes with articles like "Swtor coming out on top in 2013" and the like.

    SWTOR was made by bioware through and through, lead writer was from dragon age as was the combat designer and james ohlen the lead designer worked on baldurs gate and was lead designer for kotor, cant get much more bioware than that

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,461Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Livnthedream
    Originally posted by Sovrath

    wait what? No it doesn't. SWToR is a good game. It's just not a good game for people who wanted something else nor is it a great game at giving players something to do after level cap.

    but it's fun, it's clearly cast in the bioware way of making games.

    Heck, at PAX I met so many people who loved SWToR and even still played it.

    My guess is that "to each his own" applies here.

    Wait, Swtor is a "Bioware" game even though it has nothing to do with the studios that made Kotor, or ME, but ESO is not a TES game because "Bethesda" is not in the studio title?!

    As for "good" no. I wanted what it said it was selling, which is not what I received. Do not mistake me, I played the game for 2 months, played through the stories I wanted to play through, I most certainly "got my money's worth" but the game is flawed in far too many ways with a dev team that now lacks the money and knowledge to be able to fix it. Certainly not to the level Mike believes with articles like "Swtor coming out on top in 2013" and the like.

    It plays like a bioware game and I hate to break it to you but everything that they said SWToR would be it was. Excpet for the pvp. I went in expecting exactly what I got so I'm not sure what else you added to inflate the game beyond what it was.

    Is it flawed? sure as hell it is. But most games are. to greater or lesser degree depending on what you like/want.

    As far as Bethesda not making the elder scrolls you are correct. But it seems to me that they were never interested in an online game.

    But now we have one. The question is are people going to read into it what they want "good or bad" or will they temper their expectations, listen to what the devs are saying and see if the game comes close to "reality".

    @sk8chalif:  yes there was a demo at PAX.

  • SuperDonkSuperDonk Vancouver, WAPosts: 781Member Common
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Wraithone
    Originally posted by BillMurphy
    Originally posted by Panzerbase
    And I'm hearing direct opposites on many of these points, that it is not living up to the name, that the character creation is asinine and needless with current implimation, and the closed world is telling of the departure from it's Skrim roots. My estimate is one of too much hype and too one too many biased opinions in the favor of the game. I guess money is the universal language of the world, well money under the table. 

    OR, Mike liked the game.

    /rolleyes

    Given my experience over the years, MikeB has always seemed to be fair and even handed.  I've always respected that of him.  But lets not forget, that fan bias can impact anyones judgement.   Look at my support of Firefall, as an example of hope over reason... ^^

    I've never been any great fan of TES series, so if its not like that series, I'd not count it a negative.

    Everyone should do their own research on games, and make their own decisions.

    I doubt that MikeB (or you) would allow money to bias your columns, but that possibility does exist out and about, so I'd not take it personally when someone mentions it.

    You can't trust a website like MMORPG.com, when they fire people for giving big budget games a 4/10. (SWTOR)

    This is why I only read user reviews if I am interested in the truth. "Professional" reviews are no longer unbiased reviews that the consumer can rely on.

  • DaemonweaverDaemonweaver MostaPosts: 100Member Uncommon

    Here is Forces breakdown of his 2hrs hands on with ESO. The floaty, weightless combat is evident right from the start of the vid, but his comments later about the combat and how it works for me are what is most worrying. Everything else sounds amazing.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvEBPhaW4bk

  • NikopolNikopol The ZonePosts: 626Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Livnthedream
    Originally posted by Sovrath

    wait what? No it doesn't. SWToR is a good game. It's just not a good game for people who wanted something else nor is it a great game at giving players something to do after level cap.

    but it's fun, it's clearly cast in the bioware way of making games.

    Heck, at PAX I met so many people who loved SWToR and even still played it.

    My guess is that "to each his own" applies here.

    Wait, Swtor is a "Bioware" game even though it has nothing to do with the studios that made Kotor, or ME, but ESO is not a TES game because "Bethesda" is not in the studio title?!

    ...

     

    James Ohlen (the lead designer of not only KOTOR but also Baldur's Gate II and Neverwinter Nights) is the game director for SWTOR, so, what are you on about? Of course it's a Bioware game.

    Also, I'm with Sovrath on this. I can see people calling SWTOR a good game in many regards, and it has some novelties you won't see in other games (like multiplayer conversation). For my money it's also got the best quest presentation, the best storylines and the best voice work in MMOs. I'm not nearly a fan of the game, but it's absurd to think it's this objective fact that SWTOR is just not good as it's absurd to argue someone's opinion is void because he or she likes SWTOR.

  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Reading, PAPosts: 1,213Member Uncommon

    Has anyone on this site played TERA in the higher levels?  Combat in that game is innovative and action-oriented.  Melee characters eat range-characters alive pretty often with stuns, knockdowns and closing skills/sprints and dodges/blocks.

    "Blob fighting" (more often described as "zerging" by players of MMOs) exists, but within each zerg battle there are individual battles that determine the outcome.  If you're playing the game "swinging blindly" or "Just casting range spells until you can't anymore", you would not be a very good player in TERA because the game emphasizes strategy in fast-paced action-oritented pvp scenarios.

    The paragraph describing pvp combat just basically pretends that TERA doesn't exist.  I know not everyone can play EVERY MMO, but TERA has over a million players now worldwide and is growing.  You'd think reviews of combat would at least acknowledge that it exists, especially since it's the first real meaningful and fun innovation in MMOs in like a decade.

     

    SMITE: the awesomely addictive 3rd person MOBA

  • StonesDKStonesDK SomewherePosts: 1,805Member

    It goes to reason that bad-mouthing MMOs, that pay top dollar for ad space is bad business practice, regardless if anybody is willing to admit that or not. That makes any "professional" preview/review/opinion suspect at best or invalid at worst.

    That's not a conspiracy theory that's just common sense. A site that pays your salory and also has a hand in the cookie jar from the very games that's being talked about, isn't going to have people lining up to buy ads if you bite the hand that feeds you.

  • Rollcage8Rollcage8 SydneyPosts: 63Member
    Originally posted by sk8chalif

    Video or this did not happend..

     

    no seriously for a game that is releasing in 2013 where are the video. lol

    i remember seeing alot of video from gw2 month and month before release, like gamecom and pax.

     

    did they had a demo at Pax east??

    Videos only occur when the developer is proud of their product and the product can sell itself. So far TESO is using environmental shots (which every game can look good doing) and doesn't shot any meanginful content at all. Press and demos are very limited in what is available to see. So far the game is following SWTOR/AoC/WAR 101. 

    1) don't show real footage of the gameplay. Just setup environmental trailers and waste time. 

    2)market the crap out of it to hype box sales. 

    3)Use PAX events to further the hype without showing or allowing the world to see what the game is really like.

    Next steps:

    4)Beta exclusive and under lockdown. 

    5) Pre-orders with bonus "items that cost you +$20" 

    6) if really concerned start offerring lifetime subscriptions prior to game launch.

  • The thing with AOE is you either Over due it and it ends up like WAR with Bright Wizards (which was eventually toned down)

    Or you underpower AOE and end up like Guild Wars 2, which rewards nothing but mindless zerg play for baddies....

    I'd honestly prefer the WAR version of it over GW2 any day of the week.

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by BillMurphy
    Originally posted by Panzerbase
    And I'm hearing direct opposites on many of these points, that it is not living up to the name, that the character creation is asinine and needless with current implimation, and the closed world is telling of the departure from it's Skrim roots. My estimate is one of too much hype and too one too many biased opinions in the favor of the game. I guess money is the universal language of the world, well money under the table. 

    OR, Mike liked the game.

    /rolleyes

    Well...your previews, reviews and columns will never be complete without someone accusing you guys for taking money 'under the table' for every MMO you are excited about. lol

    Thats because they get excited for EVERY MMO. I dont think I have ever once seen a Columnist from this site come back with a less than stellar review(preview) about every AAA MMO that has come down the pipe.

    Maybe because they are fans of the genre and new games actually excite them? Shock horror I know.

    So many negative nancies on here screaming doom and gloom.

    If the articles by the staff were as pessimistic and and genre loathing as half the posters on here I doubt many people would bother to read them.

  • jbombardjbombard SapporoPosts: 531Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nikopol
    Originally posted by Livnthedream
    Originally posted by Sovrath

    wait what? No it doesn't. SWToR is a good game. It's just not a good game for people who wanted something else nor is it a great game at giving players something to do after level cap.

    but it's fun, it's clearly cast in the bioware way of making games.

    Heck, at PAX I met so many people who loved SWToR and even still played it.

    My guess is that "to each his own" applies here.

    Wait, Swtor is a "Bioware" game even though it has nothing to do with the studios that made Kotor, or ME, but ESO is not a TES game because "Bethesda" is not in the studio title?!

    ...

     

    James Ohlen (the lead designer of not only KOTOR but also Baldur's Gate II and Neverwinter Nights) is the game director for SWTOR, so, what are you on about? Of course it's a Bioware game.

    ...

    Pretty much everyone else that made Bioware the great company it *was* has pretty much left ages ago.  Ray and Greg left like a month before F2P release and they were the heart and soul of the company.  SWTOR as it was created may have been a Bioware game, SWTOR as it exists now... not so much.  

     

    I personally think that SWTOR at release was a pretty good game, where they failed was following through on the release, getting things fixed in a timely manner and getting new content out in a timely manner.  Then instead of doing right by doubling down and providing subscribers with value, they had the quickest cut and run to F2P I can remember.

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,119Member Uncommon

    In Response to Rollcage8,

    Most developers don't release videos till they have presentable animations.  Those that release too early have learned the hard way.

    image
  • miguksarammiguksaram Fort Meade, MDPosts: 826Member Uncommon
    So first let me apologize if this is an "old subject" or was already covered but one of the things I noted from some videos on youtube related to PAX East tutorial footage was that hard/strong swings don't seem to use endurance.  Equally it appeared that gear didn't have weight associated with it.  Now I know for many those things are an annoyance better left out for the enjoyment of the gamer but they were a part of the original TES games for a reason.  One, that I as least, felt added depth to the game usually lost among modern games.
  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by miguksaram
    So first let me apologize if this is an "old subject" or was already covered but one of the things I noted from some videos on youtube related to PAX East tutorial footage was that hard/strong swings don't seem to use endurance.  Equally it appeared that gear didn't have weight associated with it.  Now I know for many those things are an annoyance better left out for the enjoyment of the gamer but they were a part of the original TES games for a reason.  One, that I as least, felt added depth to the game usually lost among modern games.

    The 'depth' it added was questionable, particularly the weight restrictions. You usually ended up carrying far more than a whole caravan could. I don't see the point of bringing that pseudo-realism into loot based games.

    In 'reality' you would only carry a few objects that you find valuable, not gather loot off everything you kill.

  • umie214umie214 TOronto, ONPosts: 123Member

    " Two of the main issues that seem to plague just about any MMO with large-scale PvP are the prevalence of AOE spells and the general lack of purpose for melee characters altogether. Much of the large scale PvP I’ve experienced seems to break down into blob vs. blob combat where everyone is just slinging ranged spells and abilities at each other for as long as they can possibly get away with it."

     

    I guess you havent played GW2. Therefore, you probably havent heard of hammer warriors, d/d eles, thieves, shatter mesmers, tankcat engies, bunker rangers, gs/hammer guards, all of which are more than viable in zerg vs. zerg combat. there is tons of strategy in WvW, and my guild wins 5v15-20 all the time. and we're considered casuals.

    i wish TESO GL, but i know they likely wont even come close to what ANet has achieved with WvW, especially now after the culling fix. 

  • miguksarammiguksaram Fort Meade, MDPosts: 826Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Originally posted by miguksaram
    So first let me apologize if this is an "old subject" or was already covered but one of the things I noted from some videos on youtube related to PAX East tutorial footage was that hard/strong swings don't seem to use endurance.  Equally it appeared that gear didn't have weight associated with it.  Now I know for many those things are an annoyance better left out for the enjoyment of the gamer but they were a part of the original TES games for a reason.  One, that I as least, felt added depth to the game usually lost among modern games.

    The 'depth' it added was questionable, particularly the weight restrictions. You usually ended up carrying far more than a whole caravan could. I don't see the point of bringing that pseudo-realism into loot based games.

    In 'reality' you would only carry a few objects that you find valuable, not gather loot off everything you kill.

    Again I say that is the thought of current gamers and while I can understand the frustration it brings with it the fact remains it added a dynamic that other modern games do not.  Old school MMORPG's and D&D based RPG gamers are more likely to see my point.  Whether they agree with it is another story.

    EDIT: I realize some will argue that limited bag space (in the form of item slots) serves the same purpose but I personally disagree because items are rarely larger than a single slot regardless of how much encumbrance they otherwise cause.

  • PanzerbasePanzerbase Chicago, ILPosts: 423Member
    So I guess my original post was questioned or source material, hell just go to the damn forums, There's tons of people saying this just isn't what they thought it was. One thing that stood out from this series to me was just the shear scope of the game, you felt you could do anything in the world, and I'm sorry the route they are taking with the mmo is as anti-TESo as you can get. They're killign exactly what made the game a legend, freedom. 
  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon

    Is the playable areas explorable in the same vein as Skyrim.  Meanign even though there are quests and a linear path to follow, does it still have the same breadth of gameplay that running off i na cardinal direction and coming upon places to explore like Caves, Grottos, Keeps, Camps and all the other flair that made exploring in Skyrim so fun.

     

    Having a storyline and a linear quest path is ok but there needs to be open-ended zones to explore with all the afore-mentioned points of interest or it is not a TES game.  Theres a reason why Skyrim, Oblivian and Morrowind were so fun for millions and likely it's because of the open-ended gameplay elements.  Please tell me those are in the same vein as say Skyrim and I am sold, but if the explorable gameplay elements are limited then I'll pass.

     

    In Skyrim I could run off and find countless hours and hundreds of P.O.I.'s to explore but if ESO limits it to say a couple per zone then it will be it's death knell. 

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

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