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ESO is the perfect example of what I hope CU avoids.

WellzyCWellzyC Stillwater, MNPosts: 557Member Uncommon

 

 

I’m sure everyone who has been following ESO has seen the recent changes they have made to the in the latest press preview they held last week. It is just a testimony to how lost the mmo genre has become over the past decade. Any and all qualities about a game that make it immersive or group oriented just gets whittled away by the consistent complaining of the casual crowd. Any and all qualities that make an mmo feel more like a world is just seen as “inconvenient” and gets removed.

 

They are trying so hard to appeal to the casuals that the game doesn’t even make sense anymore. It just shows how the Genre has been so saturated by the casual console crowd, looking for something to do between Call of Duty games, that the spirit of the mmo that the niche crowd loved so much has just been lost.

 

People claim to enjoy mmorpgs, yet constantly complain on the dev boards about: the time it takes to travel- leveling takes too long- grinding is boring- not enough story content- I want to be the hero- I don’t want to share loot… I could go on and on.

 

Devs appease these people and end up creating a game this is no more than a solo “Tomb Raider” third person action game with a chat box, so dumbed down where your leveling experience is simply following an arrow on your map for 20 hours of gameplay.

 

Games where grouping is an afterthought, instanced story lines and solo questing take center stage, and teaming up with people is counterproductive. Games that make “grouping” just mindless zerging with faceless people who might as well be NPC’s. Games where you can teleport to any part of the map because traveling there apparently isn’t fun. Games where you don’t need to team up with anyone because you can tank, heal, dps, melee, cast, summon companions, and do pretty much anything by yourself. Everything is scripted to the point where you don’t even have to think anymore, even dungeons have story lines you are forced to follow in order to progress to the next part. Your entire mmo experience is just one big steaming pile of scripted crap.

 

Communication, organization, and working as a team between strangers and friends are an obsolete gaming mechanic that only gets in the way of casual gamers, Thus it must be stricken out.

Casual gamers don’t have the want or inclination to group, thus solo content is made the only outlet in order to develop your character.

----------

 

This is what I hope CU will avoid with their “founding principles”. Going back to what made mmo’s actually mmo’s; what made them popular in the first place.

 

I almost feel that the word MMORPG has been so destroyed by the new generation of kiddies and casual console players that we need to use another name to call it.

 

We don’t want a flashy third person action game that is as shallow as a puddle; we want a world that is alive, where the fun is in the interaction between players, not a script. A game with a world to explore; to escape reality; to battle other players for glory and prestige; to create friendships; to Role-play;and most of all.. Feel a part of a community.

...and thats my monday blues rant.

 

The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.

The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...


www.CeaselessGuild.com

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Comments

  • gylnnegylnne South Hutchinson, KSPosts: 320Member
    Originally posted by WellzyC

     

     

    I’m sure everyone who has been following ESO has seen the recent changes they have made to the in the latest press preview they held last week. It is just a testimony to how lost the mmo genre has become over the past decade. Any and all qualities about a game that make it immersive or group oriented just gets whittled away by the consistent complaining of the casual crowd. Any and all qualities that make an mmo feel more like a world is just seen as “inconvenient” and gets removed.

     

    They are trying so hard to appeal to the casuals that the game doesn’t even make sense anymore. It just shows how the Genre has been so saturated by the casual console crowd, looking for something to do between Call of Duty games, that the spirit of the mmo that the niche crowd loved so much has just been lost.

     

    People claim to enjoy mmorpgs, yes constantly complain on the dev boards about: the time it takes to travel- leveling takes too long- grinding is boring- not enough story content- I want to be the hero- I don’t want to share loot… I could go on and on.

     

    Devs appease these people and end up creating a game this is no more than a solo “Tomb Raider” third person action game with a chat box, so dumbed down where your leveling experience is simply following an arrow on your map for 20 hours of gameplay.

     

    Games where grouping is an afterthought, instanced story lines and solo questing take center stage, and teaming up with people is counterproductive. Games that make “grouping” just mindless zerging with faceless people who might as well be NPC’s. Games where you can teleport to any part of the map because traveling there apparently isn’t fun. Games where you don’t need to team up with anyone because you can tank, heal, dps, melee, cast, summon companions, and do pretty much anything by yourself. Everything is scripted to the point where you don’t even have to think anymore, even dungeons have story lines you are forced to follow in order to progress to the next part. Your entire mmo experience is just one big steaming pile of scripted crap.

     

    Communication, organization, and working as a team between strangers and friends are an obsolete gaming mechanic that only gets in the way of casual gamers, Thus it must be stricken out.

    Casual gamers don’t have the want or inclination to group, thus solo content is made the only outlet in order to develop your character.

    ----------

     

    This is what I hope CU will avoid with their “founding principles”. Going back to what made mmo’s actually mmo’s; what made them popular in the first place.

     

    I almost feel that the word MMORPG has been so destroyed by the new generation of kiddies and casual console players that we need to use another name to call it.

     

    We don’t want a flashy third person action game that is as shallow as a puddle; we want a world that is alive, where the story is in the interaction between players, not a script. A game with a world to explore; to escape reality; to battle other players for glory and prestige; to create friendships; to Role-play;and most of all.. Feel a part of a community.

    ...and thats my monday blues rant.

     

    This post in my opinion deserves an Oscar.:P Good post and agree 1,000%

  • WazlukWazluk Killeen, TXPosts: 159Member
    /applaud

    Terminus
    Legend Gaming Website | Join Us!
    Wazluk - Legionnaire of Terminus
    Draken Stalker
  • LordSneergLordSneerg Lorton, VAPosts: 119Member
    Still wondering how you can talk about a game you have not played. ESO is still in development. Soooooo your point makes no sense. Try basing your argument on a game currently being played. 
  • grvmpybeargrvmpybear Jacksonville, FLPosts: 90Member
    *stands, wipes away a single glimmering tear, and begins a slow clap*

    Currently playing: GW2 (Maguuma), DAoC (Uthgard), & Aion
    Waiting For / Watching: TUG, CU, Black Desert, Archeage,Wildstar, and ESO.

  • LordSneergLordSneerg Lorton, VAPosts: 119Member
    Originally posted by LordSneerg
    Still wondering how you can talk about a game you have not played. ESO is still in development. Soooooo your point makes no sense. Try basing your argument on a game currently being played.   There are plenty out there.
    Signed,
    TESO fanboi. 

     

  • gylnnegylnne South Hutchinson, KSPosts: 320Member
    Originally posted by LordSneerg
    Still wondering how you can talk about a game you have not played. ESO is still in development. Soooooo your point makes no sense. Try basing your argument on a game currently being played. 

    Pick one Lord. Almost every game out right now fits this post.

    And his post is not an argument but his opinion on how the industry has changed.

  • WazlukWazluk Killeen, TXPosts: 159Member
    Originally posted by LordSneerg
    Still wondering how you can talk about a game you have not played. ESO is still in development. Soooooo your point makes no sense. Try basing your argument on a game currently being played. 

    ESO is being played and previews are being written by press.  Even their devs describing gameplay designs back up what the OP said.  Try basing your argument on facts.

    Terminus
    Legend Gaming Website | Join Us!
    Wazluk - Legionnaire of Terminus
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  • WellzyCWellzyC Stillwater, MNPosts: 557Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by LordSneerg
    Still wondering how you can talk about a game you have not played. ESO is still in development. Soooooo your point makes no sense. Try basing your argument on a game currently being played. 

     

    Well.. I have played The Secret World, Rift, SWTOR,

    And they have all gone down this scripted mmo path. After reading a lot of source info on ESO, they talk about the same stuff. Think it would be pretty foolish to assume ESo would be any different.

    The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.

    The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...


    www.CeaselessGuild.com

  • Niix_OzekNiix_Ozek Calgary, ABPosts: 397Member
    What ESO do now?

    Ozek - DAOC
    Niix - Other games that sucked

  • gylnnegylnne South Hutchinson, KSPosts: 320Member
    Originally posted by WellzyC
     

    lol Well love your sig:P

    The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.

    The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, Linear Story, Cut-Scenes...

  • Plastic-MetalPlastic-Metal Highland Heights, KYPosts: 405Member
    Awesome write up, WellzyC.   /applaud

    My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.

    image

  • sweetdigssweetdigs Washington, DCPosts: 196Member

    Agree with the OP.

     

    BTW, played the Neverwinter open beta this weekend.  It's basically just a rehashed WOW and SWTOR.  Mostly a single player game.  Lots of instances you can immediately jump to by queueing.  Zero interaction with the world.  Lots of pay to win (and pretty ridiculous prices, like $40 for a horse).  Death is meaningless.

    In some ways it's entertaining.  Like playing through a single player game would be.  But it's certainly not a game that will have any sort of significant lasting community nor do I feel compelled to be a part of the world.

    Much like what I expect ESO to be.

  • gylnnegylnne South Hutchinson, KSPosts: 320Member
    Originally posted by sweetdigs

    Agree with the OP.

     

    BTW, played the Neverwinter open beta this weekend.  It's basically just a rehashed WOW and SWTOR.  Mostly a single player game.  Lots of instances you can immediately jump to by queueing.  Zero interaction with the world.  Lots of pay to win (and pretty ridiculous prices, like $40 for a horse).  Death is meaningless.

    In some ways it's entertaining.  Like playing through a single player game would be.  But it's certainly not a game that will have any sort of significant lasting community nor do I feel compelled to be a part of the world.

    Much like what I expect ESO to be.

    Apprently a living, breathing world is not required to make an MMO anymore. Just tons of instances, p2w stuff, fast travel and ding you have made a game that caters to the microwave folks.:P

  • TrionicusTrionicus Fort Lauderdale, FLPosts: 497Member

    So after they finish WOW-ifying and GW2-ifying the market and sales continue to NOT be like WOW in it's prime maybe they'll notice a trend.

    I don't know about anyone else but I can usually tell a lot about a game from GAMEPLAY FOOTAGE.

  • WellzyCWellzyC Stillwater, MNPosts: 557Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sweetdigs

    Agree with the OP.

     

    BTW, played the Neverwinter open beta this weekend.  It's basically just a rehashed WOW and SWTOR.  Mostly a single player game.  Lots of instances you can immediately jump to by queueing.  Zero interaction with the world.  Lots of pay to win (and pretty ridiculous prices, like $40 for a horse).  Death is meaningless.

    In some ways it's entertaining.  Like playing through a single player game would be.  But it's certainly not a game that will have any sort of significant lasting community nor do I feel compelled to be a part of the world.

    Much like what I expect ESO to be.

     

    Thats exactly how I felt about it too.

    I think when I first logged in and saw the shimmering path that shows you where to go, I just planted my forehead on my desk. Think I still have a mark.

    The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.

    The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...


    www.CeaselessGuild.com

  • KappenWizKappenWiz Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 162Member
    Originally posted by Niix_Ozek
    What ESO do now?

    Yeah, what?

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    Even in the (supposedly) most themepark of themepark MMOs, WoW, group-only content is the highest pinnacle of character advancement, and character advancement via PvP at the top tiers is 100% team focused, coordination/communication required.

    Have you played any MMO recently?

    People think WoW destroyed the MMO genre - but you know what? WoW is still very hardcore at the elder game - a true successor to EQ.

    Sadly all the successors to UO are low budget, low quality Indie titles that failed to learn the big lesson(s) UO learned back in 2000-2001.

    ESO? Only a fool would think ESO would be a open world forced-grouping sandbox / PvP game.

    ESO was/is at best going to be an open world Co-Op RPG, which it pretty much appears to be.

     

    And as for CU? I really hope it fulfills your dream old-school MMO experience, but don't count your chickens.

    As far as the world knows right now, CU is just a bunch of text on a website and a promise from a man who has done some good things and some bad things in this genre.

     

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member

    Its SOOO Ture.

    Adding 1st person view is a casual move that makes it non-hardcore.

    Adding opening up an enemy zone at level 50 for instanced content that doesnt "actually" place you in their lands because you are not playing with them makes the game "casual" and not for hardcore players.

    Adding the ability to train in all crafting skills even though you can only master two of them or be a piss poor generalist makes the game casual, and bends a knee to casuals pushing hardcore out the window.

    Its true, its true because CU is going to be more "hopefully" like DaoC and thus I need to attack TESO.

    Yes, this is coming from someone that dislikes BOTH games because its based on vastly limited gameplay elements that handicaps gameplay and makes PvP for carebears because its themepark based and requires the developers to CREATE the situations, the atmosphere and the pride for you. DaoC wasnt hardcore, it was the beginning of themepark MMORPGs, a PvP game for people who didnt PvP because it was fun, they PvPed because a carrot on a stick was dangled in front of their eyes.

     

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • EdanyEdany Phoenix, AZPosts: 178Member
    Great post Wellzy. Here's to hoping our hopes and dreams aren't dashed upon the jagged rocks of today's Current MMO shores when it comes to CU.
  • gylnnegylnne South Hutchinson, KSPosts: 320Member
    Originally posted by WellzyC

     

    Thats exactly how I felt about it too.

    I think when I first logged in and saw the shimmering path that shows you where to go, I just planted my forehead on my desk. Think I still have a mark.

    rofl, ouch!

  • LordSneergLordSneerg Lorton, VAPosts: 119Member
    Everyone will have his/her own opinion about the game. MMO's are great because you can make them into what you want. The raidi g will be different of course but the game can be as social as you make it. People forget... The group of people that play mmos has changed. More casual players then hardcore. If your goal is to make money you market to the masses. Sorry just good business.  The days where 150k users playing a mmo is successful is gone. Times have changed the genere has changed. The games are made for everyone and not the elite few. Again, everyone has different opinions and it is tough to make one on a game you never played. I hope CU Iis a big success for the hardcore players.  Just tired of seeing the bashing of a game that very few have played and could still be in alpha phase of testing. True mmos are made by the players and not the designers. A great community can make or break a game. For some reason the new community that has started wants to bash and not support.  That's why the mmos suck. I remember being a new player did not mean getting called names. I digress but your facts mean nothing cause they are not facts. The game is not out. The community will end up determining if the game is successful. A good example is the rabid wow fans. To me the game has changed into a pile of poo but there are a millions of players who enjoy the game. I ask who is right?  Me or the millions of players?  I think blizzard knows the answer to that
  • KareliaKarelia HeraklionPosts: 668Member
    GZ to OP. Best article of the month (at least). Thats the true state of the mmo's today
  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by WellzyC

    ESO is the perfect example of what I hope CU avoids.
     

    CU has zero PVE -- i guess CU avoids this ;)

  • Lazarus71Lazarus71 Celina, OHPosts: 1,025Member Uncommon

    Agree whole heartedly with all of the OP excluding the "casual console crowd" statement which was not needed at all to contribute to an otherwise great post. I'm a pc gamer at heart but I am so tired of people using the "console crowd" statement as an insult. News flash plenty of us PC players are also console players. PC players are no more enlightened or intelligent than any other gamer regardless of choice of platform. I think people would be surprised how many console players are yearning for deeper more meaningfull games to be made for their system of choice.

    Rant over.   

     

    As I said otherwise great post OP

    No signature, I don't have a pen

  • gylnnegylnne South Hutchinson, KSPosts: 320Member
    Originally posted by LordSneerg
    To me the game has changed into a pile of poo but there are a millions of players who enjoy the game. I ask who is right?  Me or the millions of players?  I think blizzard knows the answer to that

    Your opinion on what u like is as valid as a million people so you are both right. Wow just happen to figure out how to market to the casual player is all.

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