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Like GW2, Neverwinter Has No Healer?

RollieJoeRollieJoe Raleigh, NCPosts: 436Member

Just got to level 15 as a Cleric, my first beta weekend.  Was really enjoying the game, then I ran the Clocktower Dungeon (first 5-man dungeon) and realized that there is absolutely no need for a Healer since Potions are 1) extremely easy to get 2) far more powerful than any Cleric heal (including in Divinity mode) and 3) have nearly no cooldown.  Since there was absolutely no need for me to heal, even during boss fights, I felt more like a gimped DPS character with a bit of support options.

 

My question is: does this change later on in the game?  Or is the entire game, including dungeons, easily doable just spamming potions with no need for a healer?  Perhaps someone who was able to do some of the higher level content as a Cleric in the last beta weekend could give me their perspective.  Do Cleric heals eventually become stronger than potions?  I've really enjoyed the rest of Neverwinter so far, but for the same reason I never played and have no desire to play GW2, I want to play as a Healer role, not as a DPS support hybrid. 

 

Thanks!

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Comments

  • NetSageNetSage Lake Geneva, WIPosts: 1,040Member Uncommon
    to my understanding potions won't be cheap with in game money and thus a cleric will be nice to have.  As you said not needed though.  Personally I would always want to bring one just to avoid having to use potions on traps alone.
  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,923Member Uncommon

    They do have value to a group. I do believe potions do have a CD and at the same time it can be expected things can always shfit to make them less 'viable' as not having a healer. As far as the game seems, it tries to push in making roles not 'needed' though being very helpful in gameplay. You aid the group while also being able to do damage which isn't bad and can make up for it a good bit.  It just (for me) feels far better syngery wise then GW2 pushed it, though at the same time I do see how it can be viewed negatively which truthfully, I'm not 100% sure on.

     

    In DnD a healer did more then heal though at the same time people didn't have potions to chug, so perhaps some balancing will be done to make it more helpful whether its limiting the potions you can use or other means. Over-all its a 'wait and see', till then keep up playing cleric if you enjoy it. I don't think anyone will have a problem with you doing a bit less damage if your able to give healing to the group.

  • vmopedvmoped Athens, GAPosts: 1,708Member

    Keep in mind it appears that clerics have numerous bugs this go around.

    1) Aggro for healing is borked.

    2) Items are not boosting damage or healing.

    They also intentionally nerfed cleric's heals to themselves in that they receive ~50% healing from their own heals.

    Keep in mind this is beta.

    Cheers!

    MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S

  • SilentstormSilentstorm Rahway, NJPosts: 1,159Member
    Well in NW you have to think clerics as shadow priest in wow. You can do alot of healing with damage. In fact 4 skills do that so the higher your dps the higher you heal. This aspect I love in gaming so if I was to play this long term I can see being a beast. Once you understand the method behind it you can rule it. 
  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Silentstorm
    Well in NW you have to think clerics as shadow priest in wow. You can do alot of healing with damage. In fact 4 skills do that so the higher your dps the higher you heal. This aspect I love in gaming so if I was to play this long term I can see being a beast. Once you understand the method behind it you can rule it. 

    like chloro healing in Rift.. by far my favorite healing soul in rift:)

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon

    1) Your topic is misleading. Neverwinter does have a healer, you're playing as 1.

    2) Healing is actually important in dungeons from what I've seen. Potions definitely help (and need to be used), but they have a cooldown, and people still end up dying if they start getting hit. Infact my last clocktower run the tank died, and some of our DPS would have if I didn't get a few clutch stuns off when they needed a heal.

    Clerics often get asked for (even today) to run with groups. They are still one of the most in-demand classes in the game, along w/ the Guardian. They are actually pretty badass in this game. It might be harder to tell at earlier lvls, but as you start doing more difficult stuff they get more and more necessary. Even with potions you won't see Trickster Rogues taking damage that easily =P.

  • HorrorScopeHorrorScope Norcal, CAPosts: 612Member
    Originally posted by NetSage
    to my understanding potions won't be cheap with in game money and thus a cleric will be nice to have.  As you said not needed though.  Personally I would always want to bring one just to avoid having to use potions on traps alone.

    No reason to think pots will be any different in beta vs live. I hope you don't hit too many traps.

    The healing is weak, not quite GW2 weak, but well under your run of the mill mmo cleric.

  • GravargGravarg Harker Heights, TXPosts: 3,332Member Uncommon
    In later levels, healing becomes more important.  Level 1-20 are kind of like a tutorial/solo game.  After level 20 the difficulty gets ramped up and a good healer is hard to come by.
  • kjempffkjempff AarhusPosts: 882Member Uncommon

    Tried my first instance today as cleric, hoping to do my role as healer.

    I have enjoyed the game as a solo experince so far, but when it came to doing my role as a healer, the game failed with several issues:

    1. Heal aggro is messed up, everything went for me even on really small heal.

    2. de-aggro skills ? tank taunting skills ? Are there any ?

    3. targeting other players for heals was a nightmare with that fast paced combat, because you cant target people other than mouseover.. mouse that is blocked by mobs, players moving around too fast etc.

     

    Im sure aggro will get fixed as that is just a matter of some tweaking, but I am a bit concerned about targeting and aggro management, as it that seem like a more fundamental problem.

    Real class role distinctions are needed, but while pvp and paced action pulls in the other direction, I am having my doubts to be honest.. Time will tell.

    But at the same time, I have this "yes a real massive multiplayer online role playing game" feeling about it.

  • DraemosDraemos Antartica, AKPosts: 1,469Member
    Originally posted by vmoped

    Keep in mind it appears that clerics have numerous bugs this go around.

    1) Aggro for healing is borked.

    2) Items are not boosting damage or healing.

    They also intentionally nerfed cleric's heals to themselves in that they receive ~50% healing from their own heals.

    Keep in mind this is beta.

    Cheers!

    This, Clerics are screwed up this push

  • BlackcatZeroBlackcatZero Ottumwa, IAPosts: 46Member
    I'm useing a Cleric as my Merc but when I saw Clerics in the world I was wondering if I could talk one into follow me around doing the same Quest and helping each other out.  and I always thank them when they healed me.
  • RollieJoeRollieJoe Raleigh, NCPosts: 436Member

    Some responses:

     

    Yes I noticed healing aggro is broken this beta, I'm sure they'll fix that though.  I'm not really worried about that aspect.

     

    Some people have mentioned the cooldown on potions.   Potions have no significant cooldown.  It ranges from between about 0 and 10 seconds - they can be spammed non-stop during the entire dungeon run, and are far, FAR more powerful than cleric healing.

     

    I didn't know that items were also broken and not adding to damage and healing, perhaps with the additional healing from items it would make a difference.  Would need to be a fairly huge effect though, at minimum around a 200% increase.

     

    Complaints about the lack of a true healing role aside, the potions are SO powerful and SO cheap and SO spammable, that the content just seems jokingly easy.  I can restore 100% of my entire HP bar every 10 seconds or less, instantly, using potions, making it impossible to die unless I'm fighting mobs 20 levels above me that 1-shot me.

     

    Again, perhaps this changes later in the game and potions are no longer viable replacements to both Clerics and Challenge.   But they most certainly are now at my level, and that has me worried.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Silentstorm
    Well in NW you have to think clerics as shadow priest in wow. You can do alot of healing with damage. In fact 4 skills do that so the higher your dps the higher you heal. This aspect I love in gaming so if I was to play this long term I can see being a beast. Once you understand the method behind it you can rule it. 

    Yeah, they're a damage leech, direct heal hybrid.   I think they're fun too.  Currently I'm building Wis/Str, with Weapon Master and Repurpose soul for crit splash aoe healing.  The rest goes into attributes that buff divine power gain and action point gain.  I'm still not sure about paragon paths quite yet.  There are multiple options there.

  • jdnycjdnyc Long Island City, NYPosts: 1,696Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Silentstorm
    Well in NW you have to think clerics as shadow priest in wow. You can do alot of healing with damage. In fact 4 skills do that so the higher your dps the higher you heal. This aspect I love in gaming so if I was to play this long term I can see being a beast. Once you understand the method behind it you can rule it. 

    like chloro healing in Rift.. by far my favorite healing soul in rift:)

    very apt comparison.

  • ranncoreranncore omaha, NEPosts: 93Member
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Silentstorm
    Well in NW you have to think clerics as shadow priest in wow. You can do alot of healing with damage. In fact 4 skills do that so the higher your dps the higher you heal. This aspect I love in gaming so if I was to play this long term I can see being a beast. Once you understand the method behind it you can rule it. 

    Yeah, they're a damage leech, direct heal hybrid.   I think they're fun too.  Currently I'm building Wis/Str, with Weapon Master and Repurpose soul for crit splash aoe healing.  The rest goes into attributes that buff divine power gain and action point gain.  I'm still not sure about paragon paths quite yet.  There are multiple options there.

    Take the bottom path :)

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ranncore
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Silentstorm
    Well in NW you have to think clerics as shadow priest in wow. You can do alot of healing with damage. In fact 4 skills do that so the higher your dps the higher you heal. This aspect I love in gaming so if I was to play this long term I can see being a beast. Once you understand the method behind it you can rule it. 

    Yeah, they're a damage leech, direct heal hybrid.   I think they're fun too.  Currently I'm building Wis/Str, with Weapon Master and Repurpose soul for crit splash aoe healing.  The rest goes into attributes that buff divine power gain and action point gain.  I'm still not sure about paragon paths quite yet.  There are multiple options there.

    Take the bottom path :)

    I've done that one.  The best so far has been a mix of bottom and middle paths.

    The companion you choose makes a huge difference too.  The dog and control wizard companions are good.

  • ranncoreranncore omaha, NEPosts: 93Member

    I meant for your Paragon Path, to take the bottom one. Feats for refilling your Divine Power bar, giving action points whenever an encounter power comes off cooldown and action points whenever you crit. 

     

    I also like splashing into the top one to get an added heal to Prophecy of Doom (a dot which refills AP when it expires) and Rising Hope (decreases recharge time for encounter powers)

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,436Member Uncommon
    Classes are made to be more self sufficient in NW. You won't be just healing the tank constantly while he soaks up all the damage. It's action combat so things are expected to be more frantic.

    image
  • RollieJoeRollieJoe Raleigh, NCPosts: 436Member

    My point was, TERA and GW2 both have "action combat" but TERA has traditional MMO roles.   You can't beat a 5-man dungeon boss without a tank, DPS, and a healer.  GW2 does not have these roles.

     

    Neverwinter, in its current state, has an important Tank role, and DPS, but no healer role.  It is perfectly possible (and very easy) to beat a 5 man dungeon boss with no Cleric or Healer of any kind in the party, just using potions.

     

    Some people may love this, some people may hate this.  But no matter your opinion, that's how the game is right now.  What I'd like to know is if that is going to change, either late-game or post-beta.

  • ranncoreranncore omaha, NEPosts: 93Member
    Originally posted by RollieJoe

    My point was, TERA and GW2 both have "action combat" but TERA has traditional MMO roles.   You can't beat a 5-man dungeon boss without a tank, DPS, and a healer.  GW2 does not have these roles.

     

    Neverwinter, in its current state, has an important Tank role, and DPS, but no healer role.  It is perfectly possible (and very easy) to beat a 5 man dungeon boss with no Cleric or Healer of any kind in the party, just using potions.

     

    Some people may love this, some people may hate this.  But no matter your opinion, that's how the game is right now.  What I'd like to know is if that is going to change, either late-game or post-beta.

    You must not be very high level in Neverwinter. It might seem like this during the first delve, but try fighting your first dragon without a healer.

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,064Member Uncommon

    Since characters take damage quite slowly... healing is much more slow but sufficient to keep your team alive without using potions...

     

    Potions with that rediculous cooldown of 10 secconds and healing people up to full are rediculously overpowered. On tp of that, They tried to repair cleric selfhealing by lowing it with 50%, they should change that to 50% + 10% for every team member. Problem solved with group content...

     

     

    There is enough healing to be done by a good cleric to warrant hi, a role in the party...

     

     

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • RollieJoeRollieJoe Raleigh, NCPosts: 436Member

    The problem is, even if a good cleric *could* be useful, there is no reason to have one if potions do the job much better.   As of level 23 potions still heal me from 0 to 100% instantly with basically no CD.

     

    Does this change later?  Can someone who has gotten level 40+ answer if potions at that level still instantly heal basically your whole bar?  If so, no reason to have a slow-healing cleric taking up a valuable party slot when you could have a better DPS and just instantly heal yourself anytime you want.

  • ranncoreranncore omaha, NEPosts: 93Member
    Originally posted by RollieJoe

    The problem is, even if a good cleric *could* be useful, there is no reason to have one if potions do the job much better.   As of level 23 potions still heal me from 0 to 100% instantly with basically no CD.

     

    Does this change later?  Can someone who has gotten level 40+ answer if potions at that level still instantly heal basically your whole bar?  If so, no reason to have a slow-healing cleric taking up a valuable party slot when you could have a better DPS and just instantly heal yourself anytime you want.

    It does. The first 30 levels are purposefully made incredibly easy to solo. By the time you are level 50 you will realize that you need a well balanced group to take on any delve or skirmish. The max potion available in the game hits for 10k, max level characters will have 20-30k hp. That is, unless every party member stocks up on the p2w items like the stone of health and rez scrolls. 

  • ranncoreranncore omaha, NEPosts: 93Member
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Since characters take damage quite slowly... healing is much more slow but sufficient to keep your team alive without using potions...

    In addition to what I said above, it's worth noting that this also becomes untrue at high levels. Bosses will easily 1-shot most characters unless a cleric has stacked debuffs on the opponent and damage mitigation buffs on party members. And even then bosses will often 1-shot squishier targets like rogues and casters, making it almost impossible to take them on without resurrection scrolls (that are only available from the cash shop, as clerics have no rez spell). 

  • RollieJoeRollieJoe Raleigh, NCPosts: 436Member

    Thanks for the info Ranncore (and 2x thanks for providing it in a neutral, informative way, a rare treat on forums).

     

    Guess I'll wait for open beta/release and give it another shot.  I really, REALLY like alot of Neverwinter.  The combat is fantastic, and I like the graphics personally.  But I want to be able to play a Healer in groups, and its a deal-breaker if I can't, just my personal taste.  Hopefully they get things nicely balanced up for launch, because I could see this being my "new MMO" if they do.

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