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Its not an MMO

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  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    It feels more like a Diablo clone, or GW1 and DDO, its instanced, its online, but not an MMO since there are no real open zones.

     

    There are many games like this, it does not necessarily make them bad games, but it does not make them MMOs either, can we have a sepperate name for these online rpgs or action rpgs.

    Wrong..there are open zones in game.

    But then again it is a dungeon crawler so don't know what you expect.

    Its not that the game is not what i expected, or it isnt fun. As it is exactly what one might expect from an action based dungeon crawler.

     

    But labeling it as an MMO,  will harm the game more then calling it a multi player dungeoncrawler.  

     

    Then if we call NWO a multiplayer game then we can call all themepark MMOs multiplayer games and not MMOs ;).

    This discussion was held long ago, where a game very close to what we now see in Neverwinter was specifically not called an MMORPG by its developers but an CORPG, stands for Cooperative Online RPG, because there are no massive zones in these games. 

     

     

    Does anyone remember what game i am talking about?

    Does anyone even give a flying one about a past discussion regarding a different game by a different set of developers? I'll let you guess the answer, then I'll let you guess how much anyone really care what uninformed opinion you put out there in complete disregard for facts. Also may I point out that again by your own definition in this instance all themeparks are not MMOs? (if you decry one game for having instances and call it a CORPG or whatever you want then you nail the lid shut on all of em which further poses the question: why are you even talking considering you have no MMO experience by your definition).

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  • RomtimRomtim ParisPosts: 175Member
    Originally posted by moosecatlol
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    It feels more like a Diablo clone, or GW1 and DDO, its instanced, its online, but not an MMO since there are no real open zones.

     

    There are many games like this, it does not necessarily make them bad games, but it does not make them MMOs either, can we have a sepperate name for these online rpgs or action rpgs.

    I think you need to consider what instancing is.

    Is instancing the limitation of the amount of players in any one zone? Couldn't be, that would mean TERA, Guild Wars 2, and Defiance would fall into the category of "NOT OPEN-WORLD".

    Maybe it's Open-world that's more the defining term of this post? Is open world the ability to travel from "Zone" to "Zone" without loading? Well those same games also suffer from the inability to travel from "Zone" to "Zone" without loading.

    Could it be the size of each area?

    Is it the amount of players allowed in each area?

    People keep using that word "Instanced" as if  there ever was an alternative that removed it from a game. Even World of Warcraft had instances, they simply had a fantastic engine that allowed the preloading of relevant zones. In fact one might say that this was WoW's greatest achievement especially considering how flight paths worked, though knowing this you can probably figure out that the early WoW flight paths were specifically scenic for the purpose of working the current technological limitations, and as those limitations were lifted flight paths were able to be more direct in their routes.

    Every single online game has instancing, it's simply how the developers handle the instancing that makes the difference.

    I'd say the closest thing you're going to get to not having instancing is Minecraft, but in reality The End and The Nether are both seperate instance from the Overworld.

     

    Personally I enjoy the 5-10-15-25 player maps that separated and limited in order to insure that zerging doesn't occur. I also enjoy that I'm able to freely navigate between instances at will, something I oh so desire from Guild Wars2. Then again I guess that's because in Guild Wars 2, I find that players often fall into one of two categories out in the world, "Warm bodies" or "Pain the Ass". They're mostly Warm bodies when dealing with non-failstate events, but when it comes to any of the temple events, you can be sure that if there is a way to fail, they'll find it.

     

    Also I'm pretty sure that it was either MikeB or another community manager simply defined an mmo to be 500 players on a server. Though this was easily 3+ years ago. Good luck dredging that one up.

    I'm sorry, did you ever play Lineage 2? No instancing, a whole open world with no "zones".  No player limitations, so when a new server is open, there are thousands of players running around the starting locations for each race.  And no, that was not frustrating, since the point of the game was pvp. PvP for everything. For open-world raidbosses with 8-24 hour respawn timer (some of which were required for character progression such as sub-classes, nobless, which enforced the clans and alliances to fight over the control of them), epic open world raid bosses with several days - a week respawn timer, with unique gear, that had great tactical bonuses, over which hundreds of people sacrificed their sleep to fight over them. The daily "grind" involved constant PvP for survival. IF there are several groups of players each of which wants to gain experience in this point of the world, they fight each other, or declare war and kill on sight, only the strongest survive. Those, who are unable to fight are forced to take less prosperous exping spots. This whole game was around drama and pvp. 

    Just check out the types of pvp (it ranges from sieges to daily pvp on spots here)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAQLbzIE7Ec

    <a -="" .="" 8-24="" a="" alliances="" and="" are="" around="" as="" bosses="" character="" check="" clans="" constant="" control="" daily="" days="" declare="declare" drama="" each="" enforced="" epic="" everything.="" experience="" exping="" fight="" for="" forced="" from="" gain="" game="" great="" groups="" had="" hour="" data-cke-saved-href="http://I'm sorry, did you ever play Lineage 2? No instancing, a whole open world with no " href="http://I'm sorry, did you ever play Lineage 2? No instancing, a whole open world with no " http:="" hundreds="" if="" in="" involved="" is="" it="" just="" kill="" less="" locations="" new="" no="" not="" of="" on="" only="" open="" open-world="" or="" out="" over="" people="" player="" players="" point="" progression="" prosperous="" pvp="" pvp.="" race.="" raid="" raidbosses="" ranges="" required="" respawn="" running="" sacrificed="" server="" several="" sieges="" since="" sleep="" so="" some="" spots="" spots.="" starting="" strongest="" such="" survival.="" survive.="" tactical="" take="" that="" the="" their="" them.="" there="" they="" this="" thousands="" timer="" to="" types="" unable="" unique="" v="UAQLbzIE7Ec" "="" wants="" war="" was="" week="" were="" when="" which="" who="" whole="" with="" world="" www.youtube.com=""> 

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  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member
    Originally posted by tagtarsis

    Overall the deeper I get into NWO the harder the game gets and the more interesting the game gets. They introduce item enchants/augments, more open zones with harder mobs and more frequent encounters.

    Exactly.  Even though the first 10 levels have been pretty much a breeze, there are moments when you can see just how the game could get more difficult.  All you'd have to do is add more mobs and/or make them more powerful, and the same hits you take at level 4 could ruin your day at level 40 (I think I heard the level cap is 60?).  That's much more enjoyable to me than just padding your character with "stats" and then being able to take any hit without even moving.

  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Somewhere Out There, PAPosts: 2,320Member Uncommon

    I don't have a problem calling it any MMO. Massive Multiplayer Online is all that term ever stood for, it's people who made it something else and even then that varies based on opinion. 

    But yes, it's HEAVILY instances. And spare me the 'open' maps people, I played into the 30s. Those maps are not 'open', they are paths areas with a sky. Adding a sky to a map doesn't make it open when you have invisible walls, trees, houses, etc., creating specific paths you move through and portals to a new zone, which btw is usually just to another NPC that's going to send you into another instance. Personally, I like instancing, so this isn't something that's a killer for me, but don't try to portray the game as something it isn't. You're going to give people the wrong idea and in the end, only do harm to a game you like. 

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  • jdnycjdnyc Long Island City, NYPosts: 1,696Member
    If this isn't a MMO, then how was someone else able to steal a quest objective from me when I was fighting all the nearby mobs around it? :(
  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by gaeanprayer

    I don't have a problem calling it any MMO. Massive Multiplayer Online is all that term ever stood for, it's people who made it something else and even then that varies based on opinion. 

    But yes, it's HEAVILY instances. And spare me the 'open' maps people, I played into the 30s. Those maps are not 'open', they are paths areas with a sky. Adding a sky to a map doesn't make it open when you have invisible walls, trees, houses, etc., creating specific paths you move through and portals to a new zone, which btw is usually just to another NPC that's going to send you into another instance. Personally, I like instancing, so this isn't something that's a killer for me, but don't try to portray the game as something it isn't. You're going to give people the wrong idea and in the end, only do harm to a game you like. 

    so basically same as swtor... also "open" is subjective.. hell people argue gw2 has no "open" zones even though you can wander all over them in all directions..

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  • HorrorScopeHorrorScope Norcal, CAPosts: 612Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by gaeanprayer

    I don't have a problem calling it any MMO. Massive Multiplayer Online is all that term ever stood for, it's people who made it something else and even then that varies based on opinion. 

    But yes, it's HEAVILY instances. And spare me the 'open' maps people, I played into the 30s. Those maps are not 'open', they are paths areas with a sky. Adding a sky to a map doesn't make it open when you have invisible walls, trees, houses, etc., creating specific paths you move through and portals to a new zone, which btw is usually just to another NPC that's going to send you into another instance. Personally, I like instancing, so this isn't something that's a killer for me, but don't try to portray the game as something it isn't. You're going to give people the wrong idea and in the end, only do harm to a game you like. 

    so basically same as swtor... also "open" is subjective.. hell people argue gw2 has no "open" zones even though you can wander all over them in all directions..

    SWOTR is heavily isntanced as well.

    I agree there is a point where it is big enough to call open and enough people within it. I do feel GW2's zones are big enough and have enough people in them to call open. NWO's zones are like 1/25th the size in both size and players in their open areas.

  • versulasversulas None of your damn business, WAPosts: 286Member Uncommon

    Well... He might not be that far off considering they give you an option to skip all the content and go straight to max level in a couple of hours by simply doing a 15 sec. instanced foundry quest over and over and over again. Mind-numbingly boring yes, but easily do-able with a good netflix queue. Hope to hell they fix that at launch or else you're going to have a ton of max level, undergeared people who have no clue how to play their class.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by versulas

    Well... He might not be that far off considering they give you an option to skip all the content and go straight to max level in a couple of hours by simply doing a 15 sec. instanced foundry quest over and over and over again. Mind-numbingly boring yes, but easily do-able with a good netflix queue. Hope to hell they fix that at launch or else you're going to have a ton of max level, undergeared people who have no clue how to play their class.

    xp is increased a decent amount for the beta weekends to allow players to hit higher level areas for testing. 

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • DraemosDraemos Antartica, AKPosts: 1,469Member
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    It feels more like a Diablo clone, or GW1 and DDO, its instanced, its online, but not an MMO since there are no real open zones.

     

    There are many games like this, it does not necessarily make them bad games, but it does not make them MMOs either, can we have a sepperate name for these online rpgs or action rpgs.

    Is as much of an MMO as Champions, and more-so than STO

  • RedcorRedcor Austin, TXPosts: 426Member
    Logged in , checked it out, logged out, uninstalled. This might have been a decent game if it was released 10 years ago. Looks and feels really old in every aspect. Not like a new game at all. Been a disapointing beta weekend with this and Defiance both missing the mark in my opinion.

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  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    It feels more like a Diablo clone, or GW1 and DDO, its instanced, its online, but not an MMO since there are no real open zones.

     

    There are many games like this, it does not necessarily make them bad games, but it does not make them MMOs either, can we have a sepperate name for these online rpgs or action rpgs.

    Good job at not playing the game for more than 15 minutes... after the firt 5-10 quests you enter one of the larger zones in the game. But oh well, ignorance is bliss and  those who are ignorant are rewarded so.

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  • OmaliOmali MMO Business Correspondent Orchard Park, NYPosts: 1,114Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    It feels more like a Diablo clone

    Finally, someone who understands. Neverwinter is just like Diablo.

    You know, except for the graphics. And controls. And camera perspective. Oh and the crafting. And I guess the loot system. Quests are pretty different. But they are both video games on the internet. You probably couldn't tell them apart.

    Check out my monthly column on MMORPG.com.

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  • Slappy1Slappy1 columbus, OHPosts: 458Member
    Originally posted by mmprime
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    aside from the dungeons most areas you quest in you are not in your own instance you see people all around.. as you get higher you will get to more much larger areas.. You don't have the huge open world feel of games like wow and such but its hardly a lobby game like gw1 or vindictous where you never seen anyone else unless you are in a party with them or in town.. Yes its a dungeon crawler at heart though but i'd still consider this a MMO

    30 or 40 players in one instanced zone. That's not massively, if you ask me.

    Then what exactly is massively?I mean wth?If you're in an instanced zone with 30+ people and that's just one of dozen's of zone's with many people in each...how is this not massively?It's the very definition of massive,you have many more than 1 group of people in a zone and there are multiple zone's with this occurring.How is that not massive?

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  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Redcor
    Logged in , checked it out, logged out, uninstalled. This might have been a decent game if it was released 10 years ago. Looks and feels really old in every aspect. Not like a new game at all. Been a disapointing beta weekend with this and Defiance both missing the mark in my opinion.

     What game these days do you consider on the mark? TERA? Failed for having no content. Secret World online, Failed for having no content. Age of Conan, failed for having no content. Guild Wars 2, failed for having no content. What's the difference with other games and this one? Nothing at all, it's all in your mind and if you believe only 5-10 minutes worth of play time equals a good review of the game you're quite mistaken.

     But who knows, I know you won't from the short inspection you gave it. I believe the graphics are quite good for the art style it's going for. It's not TERA in a sense of top of the line graphics but it's not a bland game in any sense. In addition to your remark of a game 10 years ago, you had stuff like EQ and DAOC. I think you're a bit out of the loop of how little quality MMO's back then actually had. Here are a few screen shots just to clarify 10 years ago:

    Ultima Online

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    Everquest

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    Dark Age of Camelot

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    Neverwinter

    photo neverwinter_zps1950441f.png

    To those old games. That's a complete difference in detail

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  • DeniZgDeniZg ZagrebPosts: 669Member Uncommon

    If a game can be played with other players in a persisent world, than it is indeed an MMO.

    On a sidenote, NWO does fell a lot like SWTOR, beacause of instancing and very similar map design (canyons, invisible walls etc.) Still, loading screens are much quicker and combat is way more engaging.

    Adding to previous post, here's a screenshot from GW2. NWO is not too far behind on scenery.

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,549Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DeniZg

    If a game can be played with other players in a persisent world, than it is indeed an MMO.

    On a sidenote, NWO does fell a lot like SWTOR, beacause of instancing and very similar map design (canyons, invisible walls etc.) Still, loading screens are much quicker and combat is way more engaging.

    Adding to previous post, here's a screenshot from GW2. NWO is not too far behind on scenery.

    the enclave is like one block of the GW2s city lol

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,549Member Uncommon

    For those who keep saying this is not an mmorpg well thats wrong because it is.

    Massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) (MUH'-mor-PUH-guh) is a genre of role-playing video games in which a very large number of players interact with one another within a virtual game world.

    As in all RPGs, players assume the role of a character (often in a fantasy world) and take control over many of that character's actions. MMORPGs are distinguished from single-player or small multi-player online RPGs by the number of players, and by the game's persistent world (usually hosted by the game's publisher), which continues to exist and evolve while the player is offline and away from the game

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_role-playing_game

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,205Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    It feels more like a Diablo clone, or GW1 and DDO, its instanced, its online, but not an MMO since there are no real open zones.

    There are many games like this, it does not necessarily make them bad games, but it does not make them MMOs either, can we have a sepperate name for these online rpgs or action rpgs.

    Wow, I really didn't expect you to post this thread.  Are you really going with the zone size argument?  So EQ2 is an mmo because it has big zones, but Neverwinter isn't because their zones are smaller.  They have the exact same zone system.  D&D:N zones are public from the very first point you enter the game.  There are private instances but I'm sure you're not going to go down that road.

    Stop trying to shove the genre in a pre-conceived box.  The game is an mmo, it's just not what you want your mmo to be.  You might even like the game, and I get where you're coming from, but you're way out there with this one.

     

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    It feels more like a Diablo clone, or GW1 and DDO, its instanced, its online, but not an MMO since there are no real open zones.

     

    There are many games like this, it does not necessarily make them bad games, but it does not make them MMOs either, can we have a sepperate name for these online rpgs or action rpgs.

    You do realize the name of the game is Dungeons & Dragons Neverwinter. I guess I just don't understand why people keep complaining that this game feels like DDO. Of course it does, it's a followup of that game. It's not WoW 2.0, it's DDO 2.0 with action combat.

  • wordizwordiz Eugene, ORPosts: 464Member
    Open zones are not what makes a MMO. Neverwinter is a MMO, it's just a NEVERWINTER MMO. I lol daily on people that pick at the art style that is a time honored tradition, or people that poke at instancing...they've obviously never played the older games and had unrealistic/uneducated expectations.
  • kjempffkjempff AarhusPosts: 883Member Uncommon
    Only based on havin played 3rd beta I would say Neverwinter has the best mmoRPg (notice emphasis on Role Playing) feeling I experienced since WoW in the beginning or Vanguard (~10years). It has the potential to fail horribly on a number of issues, but it feels good on the RP and immersive side.
  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,740Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Margrave
    I love Neverwinter. Many others do. If you don't sorry, but I'm going to keep playing this awesome free to play title. Remember how much it cost you..... nothing.

     I havent got a chance to play it yet, but from the early returns it sure sounds like many DONT like it.

  • Asm0deusAsm0deus BaatorPosts: 1,113Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    It feels more like a Diablo clone, or GW1 and DDO, its instanced, its online, but not an MMO since there are no real open zones.

     

    There are many games like this, it does not necessarily make them bad games, but it does not make them MMOs either, can we have a sepperate name for these online rpgs or action rpgs.

    You do realize the name of the game is Dungeons & Dragons Neverwinter. I guess I just don't understand why people keep complaining that this game feels like DDO. Of course it does, it's a followup of that game. It's not WoW 2.0, it's DDO 2.0 with action combat.

    Hell no, this is not in any shape or form DDO2. 

     

    It has nothing what so ever in commun with DDO except the DND logo and even then Neverwinter doesn't deserve to have that IMO.

    If you want to play A DND game you play DDO, if you want a boring rooting arcade style game with some DnD flavoring in the background (names and lore) you play Neverwinter.

     

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  • BookahBookah Bar Harbor, MEPosts: 259Member
    Originally posted by Thane
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    It feels more like a Diablo clone, or GW1 and DDO, its instanced, its online, but not an MMO since there are no real open zones.

     

    There are many games like this, it does not necessarily make them bad games, but it does not make them MMOs either, can we have a sepperate name for these online rpgs or action rpgs.

    worst argument ever. thx for the laugh tho.

    they are still mmos even tho they instance their maps.

     

     

     

     

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