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Why newer MMOs have not had the success WoW has had since WoW's release

24

Comments

  • acidbloodacidblood melbournePosts: 265Member Uncommon

    So then WildStar will finally be the WoW killer?

    • It has a similar art style.
    • It has the same (or better) sense of not being too serious.
    • It appears to have a similarly varied and interesting world (size is still unknown...)
    • It has fluid and intuitive combat; easy to learn, hard to master.
    • It has PvP servers (though no explicit open world objectives), Battlegrounds, Arenas and Warplots to boot
    • It has all sorts of PvE 'layered content' from traditional quests to dynamic events
    • It has awesome player housing, so big plus on WoW there
    • It has UI mods; built from the ground up to support them and make them easy to create
    • It has 20 and 40 man raids
    • It has 5 man instances
    • It has mounts
    • It uses the trinity, but also offers a good range of play styles per class
    • It has, well a bunch of other stuff I'm probably forgetting or don't know about yet
    In short, WildStar looks like a new and in most cases much improved version of WoW.. so will it kill WoW? I doubt it, as while I agree with the op (the 'next WoW' must include everything WoW has and more), there are two things any new MMO can not include that WoW has.. the players characters and the timing of it's launch.
  • SiveriaSiveria Saint John, New BrunswickPosts: 1,200Member Uncommon

    Its rather simple, Most of these mmo's pretty much just copy and paste wow, and throw a new skin over it, without doing anything unique on their own or even attempting to. People who quit wow, don't want to go to another mmorpg that bascally plays the exact same way as the game they just quit, so they lose interest fast. Its why most of them are ghost towns after a month or so after release. There is also the fact that leveling is way to fast, IMO it should take a hardcore player 3 weeks minimum to level a char to cap, and for non-hardcore mutiple months. Most mmo's today you can hit the level cap in 2-3 days, then all the game has to offer is raiding. Now the problem here is most of these games that have raiding, put in nothing to use the raid gear for.

    Lets look at EQ2 a game that IMO did it right. You raid for gear, then you can take said raid gear into pvp or virtually any other activity, you can mentor down to do dungeons you missed for more Alternate Advancement points (this is another thing more games need, a way to progress besides items at lv cap) Eq2 also has a massive amount of content, though this is mostly because its been around for so long, but even without all the xpac's I am pretty sure there is more to do in the base game of eq2 than in most mmo's to date comparativly.

    Anyway to put it simply, players are just getting sick of every mmorpg feeling/being the exact same, with the same repetive endgame, and the same leveling progression and such. The secret world tried to change it, but it ends up the same thing, boring repetive kill this, fetch that quests from start to finish, then same pointless raiding with no real use for the gear anymore.

    When Tera released alot of people thought it was a good game, that is until the newness of the diffrent combat engine wore off and they relized the game is bascally a reskined wow behind it, with nothing really diffrent. Most of the mmo's since wow's release fell prey to this same thing. That is why they don't do that good. WoW also had the warcraft fanboys to draw on as well.

    Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

    A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

    or

    B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

    Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  • SiveriaSiveria Saint John, New BrunswickPosts: 1,200Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by acidblood

    So then WildStar will finally be the WoW killer?

    • It has a similar art style.
    • It has the same (or better) sense of not being too serious.
    • It appears to have a similarly varied and interesting world (size is still unknown...)
    • It has fluid and intuitive combat; easy to learn, hard to master.
    • It has PvP servers (though no explicit open world objectives), Battlegrounds, Arenas and Warplots to boot
    • It has all sorts of PvE 'layered content' from traditional quests to dynamic events
    • It has awesome player housing, so big plus on WoW there
    • It has UI mods; built from the ground up to support them and make them easy to create
    • It has 20 and 40 man raids
    • It has 5 man instances
    • It has mounts
    • It uses the trinity, but also offers a good range of play styles per class
    • It has, well a bunch of other stuff I'm probably forgetting or don't know about yet
    In short, WildStar looks like a new and in most cases much improved version of WoW.. so will it kill WoW? I doubt it, as while I agree with the op (the 'next WoW' must include everything WoW has and more), there are two things any new MMO can not include that WoW has.. the players characters and the timing of it's launch.

    I doubt it, the game is just yet another wow-clone in a diffrent skin, don't even try to say it isin't. even the combat is the exact same generic 1,2,3,4 crap. For a game to be a wow killer, it can't just be a copy of wow in a new skin, it doesn't work that way, and lets be honest, I dislike wow, but I highly doubt any other subbed based mmorpg is every going to come near wow's subscriber numbers, they should just be content on getting enough to make the game profitable, which really doesn't need more than 100-200k subs to do this. Some can get by with even less.

     

    It will also probally fuck up on pvp as well by making seperate pvp gear insted of making everyone get the pvp gear the same way (via raids) Mostly done by adding some magical extra unneeded stat to the gear. Castering to the pvp crowd is pretty stupid as a whole when they are a extremly small minority, and you ruin the game for your much bigger pve crowd by doing this. Bascally they need to merge the 2 playstyles, so you can do both with 1 gear set, insted of having to grind for a pvp set. DAoC was great in the respect that everyone got the gear for pvp and pve the same way, so they could do either at anytime, since the best gear (least before u could make your own magical items) was from raids, NO ONE complained about it.  Also pvp in a pve based mmo is just added on usually and not a focus at all.

    Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

    A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

    or

    B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

    Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  • WW4BWWW4BW KoldingPosts: 493Member
    Originally posted by acidblood

    So then WildStar will finally be the WoW killer?

    • It has a similar art style.
    • It has the same (or better) sense of not being too serious.
    • It appears to have a similarly varied and interesting world (size is still unknown...)
    • It has fluid and intuitive combat; easy to learn, hard to master.
    • It has PvP servers (though no explicit open world objectives), Battlegrounds, Arenas and Warplots to boot
    • It has all sorts of PvE 'layered content' from traditional quests to dynamic events
    • It has awesome player housing, so big plus on WoW there
    • It has UI mods; built from the ground up to support them and make them easy to create
    • It has 20 and 40 man raids
    • It has 5 man instances
    • It has mounts
    • It uses the trinity, but also offers a good range of play styles per class
    • It has, well a bunch of other stuff I'm probably forgetting or don't know about yet
    In short, WildStar looks like a new and in most cases much improved version of WoW.. so will it kill WoW? I doubt it, as while I agree with the op (the 'next WoW' must include everything WoW has and more), there are two things any new MMO can not include that WoW has.. the players characters and the timing of it's launch.

    All of that is exactly why it wont be a WoW killer. Even if it turns out to be better than WoW it lacks the IP familiarity and it isnt different enough to open up a whole new demographic.. So it will neither steal all of the players from WoW nor will it eclipse it with millions of fresh players. 

  • dllddlld GöteborgPosts: 541Member Uncommon

    GW2 is probably the closest thing to a wow killer there will be, how so? Some numbers:

    Cataclysm First month sales 4,7 million

    MoP First week (more or less the same as first month really, how many buys an expansion 3 weeks after launch unless they are hurting for cash?) sales 2,7 million

    GW2 which launced about a month before MoP 2 million sales somewhere within the first month.

    Notice something? lol

     

  • SiveriaSiveria Saint John, New BrunswickPosts: 1,200Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dlld

    GW2 is probably the closest thing to a wow killer there will be, how so? Some numbers:

    Cataclysm First month sales 4,7 million

    MoP First week (more or less the same as first month really, how many buys an expansion 3 weeks after launch unless they are hurting for cash?) sales 2,7 million

    GW2 which launced about a month before MoP 2 million sales somewhere within the first month.

    Notice something? lol

     

    GW2 does not count since its not a subscription based game, you cannot compare the 2 really.

    Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

    A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

    or

    B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

    Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  • saphon7k4saphon7k4 aaaPosts: 1Member

    Have you never heard of ArcheAge? It does everything have.

    ArcheAge inspires me more than Elders Scroll Online and WildStars.

  • Sk1ppeRSk1ppeR PlovdivPosts: 511Member

    So I see you all bitch and moan about WoW's success being on the open world pvp well let me tell you this.

    Most of you probably don't know about a game called "Lineage 2". Now, it had open world pvp, so open that you could be killed in the starting zones. It had hell of a lot better graphics than WoW, epic raids that needed somewhere 40 to unlimited player count. It launched at the same time WoW did. It also offered castle sieges which was sick. I was playing since beta and I had a blast and I never understood why people go for WoW, and obviously its not the features, I think it was that the game fed its players with a spoon. It was a carebear club. Nothing more nothing less.

    These days I find myself playing GW2 and TSW because they're less time-intensive and awesome. And I hope you get my point and stop repeating the same nonsense all over. 

    PS: Ever seen a tank running around killing people with a bow or dagger in WoW? That was possible in Lineage though xD

    It's just pitty that lately NCSoft are trying to axe the game, yet people do not yet leave

  • NovusodNovusod Lakewood, NJPosts: 892Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yukmarc
    WoW is the Walmart and McDonalds of MMO's.

    THIS ^

     

    Top chefs don't try to compete with McDonalds. Retailers don't want to compete with Walmart either. They move up scale and serve the niches of people who wouldn't be caught dead in a Walmart ot McDonalds.

     

    Remember when Apple computer almost went out of business trying to compete with Microsoft in the late 90s. The G4 and G5 macs were technologically superior to PCs in every way but somehow they just could not compete with Microsoft. Apple only survived by NOT competing and selling to a different market. It started with the iPOD and then the iPHONE now over priced iPADS. Apple became the most valuable corporation in the world by NOT competing with Microsoft.

     

    There is a lesson to be learned here. MMO devs need to do the same and create an upscale gaming market for those with refined tastes. There are a lot of people who don't want anything to do with WoW but are not being served with a quality product they are looking for.

  • OberholzerOberholzer Hasbrouck Heights, NJPosts: 498Member
    Originally posted by Novusod

     

    There is a lesson to be learned here. MMO devs need to do the same and create an upscale gaming market for those with refined tastes. There are a lot of people who don't want anything to do with WoW but are not being served with a quality product they are looking for.

    I agree with this! I just hope there are Devs in the end( and what I mean is upon release, not just blowing smoke about what will be in a game) that are smart enough not to chase the WoW numbers just make a quality game for people looking for something different. When you say upscale though I'm assuming you mean sub, fine with me but it seems these days so many players want everything free I would hope that doesn't scare Devs away from not making a game F2P.

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,763Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GreenHell
    Originally posted by Deddpool
    Shorter answer: wow players have no attention span and don't want to go anywhere else because of all the work and time they put into wow.

    That really doesn't make any sense. They have no attention span but they had enough of a attention span to put  work in to WoW? Seems to me they have an attention span..maybe they just like WoW?

    lol that guy must really hate everyone who plays wow. Dont give him a gun. Why the hell should i talk down to people that do things i dont like? that makes me a very stupid person, and ignorant. Im sure most WoW players have tried a lot of mmos after WoW and went back for the reasons everyone knows already.

    image
  • GolelornGolelorn Hiding From Social Media Peeping Toms, ALPosts: 1,099Member Uncommon

    First off, another company can acheive the succes WoW had. Its short-sighted to say it can't happen again. The industry is growing. 

     

    Secondly, WoW was so successful because it was not an EQ clone. Its vastly different. Every game that has come out is arguably a WoW clone. Nothing out there seperates itself from WoW. They are all shallow quest driven games where you  grind for gear. Once a AAA studio steps outside that box like WoW did in 2004 you will see success.

  • MargraveMargrave Knoxville, TNPosts: 633Member Uncommon
    The problem is they can never be your first experience again. For me that would be UO/EQ. They also can never make you younger. never.
  • cheyanecheyane Rome Posts: 3,002Member Uncommon

    I disagree with the op because I am not willing  to invest in another game like I invested in WoW. Many of us think we want to but in reality we do not we think we will invest our time, heart, energy and dedication to another game but the minute the spectre looms over us we begin to flounder and falter because we remember the actual effort it took. No then we find fault in the new game and after a few months we leave for another game and that goes on and on. I myself have flitted from game to game since Everquest.

     

    I have only ever invested in three games. Everquest, FFXI, WoW and to an extent Everquest 2. I cannot find a single game right now that I am willing to invest in. I doubt it has anything to do with the game not being WoW and more but rather that I no longer desire to make such an investment.

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  • PhelcherPhelcher Boston, MAPosts: 1,053Member

    OP assessment of what he thinks happened, is not true.

    People left EQ to try World of Warcraft, because WoW's beta was 80% EQ players. There were only a few MMORPG on the market and back then, everyone bought & tried any new MMORPG. As it stands, EQ player's beat World of Warcraft in 4 months, killed all the dragons and went back to a much harder and much more adult-minded game.

     

    World of Warcraft's explosion was due to one thing.... in 2004 & 2005 the availability of always on internet, expoded.

    Thus the playerbase exploded. Blizzard was well known and who was doing all the marketing.. as those kids were finding the internet games for the first time. EQ was already 4~5 years old..

    New kids don't flock to old games...

     

     

    World of Wascraft, was an anomoly. Fueled by the internet explosion.

    "No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."


    -Nariusseldon

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member

    ya I mean the poster above me answer the question.  The mmorpg market just not big enough to sustain that many players.

    wow really only have 3 million or so player out side of China.  So the only way to become a successful mmorpg is become a wow killer.  What I mean is stealing sub from wow and other mmorpg. 

    Alternatively mmorpg can "try" to get into the China market.  Which isn't always easy to do. 

  • slickbizzleslickbizzle Matthews, NCPosts: 464Member

    GW2 sold just over 3 million copies.  WoW has about 9 million something subscribers from the last I'd seen.  Almost all of those are playing MoP.  

     

    And yet, they've only sold around 2.7 million copies of MoP?  Kind of makes me wonder where you are getting YOUR facts from.  

     

    If they sold 2.7 million copies, and you say that almost all are playing MoP, does that mean WoW has about 3 million subscribers?

     

     

     

  • ColumbiaTrueColumbiaTrue BogotaPosts: 47Member

    The temptation to be WoW-like is irresistible to game developers and their investors and management (as agents of the shareholders of the corporation or company).

     

    M E M O R A N D U M 

     

    TO:  INVESTORS OF MMORPGS (not managers or developers)

    RE: MMORPGs

     

    Dear Investors:

    You have not been able to resist the fatal temptation to try to become like WoW. You will never become like WoW. Have any of you attended acting class during college or your time off? Remember what you were taught - never try to be someone else; it will come off affected, awkward, and inconsistent. The same is true of MMORPGs.

    Whether it be fantasy or sci-fi, you investors elect Directors at your annual shareholders' meetings who tell management to be like WoW. Instead, investors, I suggest you elect Directors who will tell management to be "unlike WoW."

    Indeed, build a creative game. Use new concepts. Where WoW is weak, be strong. Where WoW has no depth, go as deep as possible. Where WoW is short, go long. Where WoW has PvP, ditch PvP.

     

    # # # 

     

    "The truth is EA lies." - Youtube User

    Sim City. Everquest. Civilization. Dungeon Keeper. Vampire: The Masquerade. These are the games that I love and cherish.

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member
    Originally posted by slickbizzle

    GW2 sold just over 3 million copies.  WoW has about 9 million something subscribers from the last I'd seen.  Almost all of those are playing MoP.  

     

    And yet, they've only sold around 2.7 million copies of MoP?  Kind of makes me wonder where you are getting YOUR facts from.  

     

    If they sold 2.7 million copies, and you say that almost all are playing MoP, does that mean WoW has about 3 million subscribers?

     

     

     

    Exactly.  Wow does only have 3 million "western" subscriber.  You don't need to buy the expansion in asia.  Expansion is free.

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Margrave
    The problem is they can never be your first experience again. For me that would be UO/EQ. They also can never make you younger. never.

    But you can have newer, better experiences.

    UO is my second experience on a MMO (Kingdom of Drakkar is my first, if you count MMO precursors, and don't count MUD). Very bad experience.

    EQ is second .. played it for a year.

    Now, almost any online game i played is a better game than those two.

    So yes, these are never my first experience again .. they are better.

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,706Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by strangiato2112

    No one will ever have WoW's success again.  And nothing should ever be compared to it because its an anamoly.

    You are also very wrong about why WoW became popular and has stayed popular.

    What kind of nonsense is this?  Games will absolutely experience WOW's success again.  From Pac-Man up through League of Legends there is always a handful of extremely popular hits at any given moment.

    The only thing unknown is whether that next hit will be an MMORPG or not.  Although I suppose one could argue the expansions to WOW have been minor versions of those hits (for some expansions at least; Pandaria definitely feels like one as several of my RL friends have become just as re-addicted to WOW as I have recently.)

    Games like ESO have a good chance at success.  They just have to avoid bungling it.

    You just have to create a game that's genuinely fun to play every session.  With games like SWTOR it's clear why sessions weren't fun: grouping was a complete pain in the ass, and the game had almost zero mob variety so even though classes had some fun rotations, they always basically fought the same exact fights.  Whereas in WOW there's this constant need to optimize against each type of mob: this one stops and does a nasty cleave, so you have to step out of the way; that one puts pain fields on the ground; the next one does a cleave that people need to stack on the tank for; etc.  Creating classes with fun rotations is only half the formula; the other half is having varied mob types.

    If you create a game that's fun to play every session, even if you don't get WOW numbers you're going to have players sticking to your game.  And while these games should shoot for the top, it's certainly success if they're able to make sustainable income by keeping the game running with a reasonably sized live team.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • PreparedPrepared Irvine, CAPosts: 95Member
    Originally posted by acidblood

    So then WildStar will finally be the WoW killer?

    • It has a similar art style.
    • It has the same (or better) sense of not being too serious.
    • It appears to have a similarly varied and interesting world (size is still unknown...)
    • It has fluid and intuitive combat; easy to learn, hard to master.
    • It has PvP servers (though no explicit open world objectives), Battlegrounds, Arenas and Warplots to boot
    • It has all sorts of PvE 'layered content' from traditional quests to dynamic events
    • It has awesome player housing, so big plus on WoW there
    • It has UI mods; built from the ground up to support them and make them easy to create
    • It has 20 and 40 man raids
    • It has 5 man instances
    • It has mounts
    • It uses the trinity, but also offers a good range of play styles per class
    • It has, well a bunch of other stuff I'm probably forgetting or don't know about yet
    In short, WildStar looks like a new and in most cases much improved version of WoW.. so will it kill WoW? I doubt it, as while I agree with the op (the 'next WoW' must include everything WoW has and more), there are two things any new MMO can not include that WoW has.. the players characters and the timing of it's launch.

    The short answer is no, it won't kill WoW because you've already mentioned things that WoW has that it doesn't.  When "everything" is stated, it means literally "everything" with exception of character models and world layout which can't be there because of law.  But everything else can.  It's lacking 10 and 25 man raids from your list, however 20 man raids will probably be popular if the game takes off.  It's lacking no open world objective where a faction can take on another faction city boss while the defending faction can form a defending raid.  That should be allowed even on non-pvp servers.

    There is not enough information about game play from the WildStar web site or I would comment further.  I did get a kick out of the "What is WIldStar" youtube video though.  That was pretty cool.  You're right it mentions a lot of the things that are in WoW but it doesn't look like it includes everything.  Some questions I'd ask of the game are:

    1. Does it have a macro system?

    2. Does it have addon support?

    3. Can the User Interface be customized and how far can it go?

    4. What is the charge for the game and what kinds of things are charged for in the game?

    5. Does doing PvP reward the player with better PvP gear?  And likewise does doing PvE reward the player with better PvE gear?  In other words, are there separate paths to take for two separate types of gear for PvE and PvP?

     

     

  • Skooma2Skooma2 Glenview, ILPosts: 694Member Uncommon

    This is not a troll.  This is not some flippant response.  I am a father and while I have an empty nest now,  I can tell you exactly and specifically why WoW still has so much "support" and others do not come close:

     

    The game requires so little graphic horsepower that I do not have to upgrade my kids' computer so long as they keep playing a game that can, essentially, be played on an Etch-a-Sketch.  It saves we parents a lot of money to keep them kids hooked on WoW.

    Hedonismbot: Your latest performance was as delectable as dipping my bottom over and over into a bath of the silkiest oils and creams.

  • korent1991korent1991 CakovecPosts: 1,390Member

    you're so very wrong about most things in your post...

    WoW was such a success because of its most important factor which is: the time when it was released and blizzard already had a huge fan base.

    Most of the new mmorpgs actually do offer even MORE than WOW has to offer. Let's face the truth here, wow doesn't have much to offer besides repetitive quests, dungeons and raids with little to none inovative mechanics.

    Most probably there won't be another game with such a success because market has evolved, there's alot of games in competition and it's alot harder to win people over for a long term like blizzard managed over the years even tho it has been failing for the past 2 years if we keep china out of the equation (because their paymodels are really weird with all those cyber caffé things).

    "Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
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  • AndbrikAndbrik Keller, TXPosts: 9Member Uncommon

    While I partially agree with OP about the scope and variety of gameplay being essential to success, I don't think another game can match the success of WoW...yet.  As has been stated, WoW emerged at the most opportune time to gain the interest of a very large audience.  For this to happen again, I honestly think WoW will have to die out naturally or run it's course entiretly until Blizzard shuts it down.

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