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Why newer MMOs have not had the success WoW has had since WoW's release

PreparedPrepared Irvine, CAPosts: 95Member Common

Why newer MMOs have not had the success WoW has had since WoW's release on November 23, 2004:

Why did half of the player base of Everquest leave and play WoW in 2004?? And further, why did hardly any players leave WoW to play Tera? The answer is simple, but almost no game developers seem to understand the answer. And another question: Why did hardly any players leave WoW to play any other MMORPG when they were released? WoW won't be dying because newer MMOs that don't offer everything that WoW offers and give more. That's why players left Everquest. WoW had everything it had plus more.  Newer MMOs that offer a different play style won't take very much from WoW nor will they be any huge success like WoW has been.  Newer MMOs that offer different content also won't take anything away from WoW.  Why?  It's simple, they don't offer everything that WoW has.  That's the start of any MMO that wants to be the king of MMOs.  Offer everything in WoW.  Must include EVERYTHING such as things that a lot of players or developers won't consider such as macros, addons, different level rewards in different PvP encounters, different level rewards in different end game raid encounters.  All of the things that WoW offers must be included in any game that is going to take it head-on and claim to be the new king.  If the new MMO is just "different", it's not going to do much in terms of taking the player base away from WoW nor gain the same level of success that WoW has had.  

 

Some examples of how games released in recent years could have been the new king:

1.  Guild Wars 2 - If it had the things it has in it now such as dynamic events, hearts (which are essentially quests where you don't have to go see someone (but you could if you wanted to get more information on the story involved with the heart) PLUS on top of the things it has now, it included a three faction system instead of a two faction system such as WoW, included the ability to attack any of the other factions cities by killing NPCs or any player that flagged for PvP, included the trinity system (tank, dps, heal) - because the non-trinity system doesn't work in a strategy-based raid encounter.  In other words, if it had everything that WoW had, but additionally, it had dynamic events, theme set in Tyria with dragon bosses, and other things that it has plus it has no monthly subscription?  It would have taken over the world (of warcraft).  Instead, it had no duels, no faction based world pvp, no coordinated strategic raids, the list goes on...

 

2. Tera - Offers a new combat system in addition to the traditional things such as questing, etc.  If in addition to the new combat system where the player targets by using a mouse reticle, it included the option of using a tab target system that the player could choose by menu options, this would allow players that liked the tab target system instead of being locked into the way the game developer wants the player base to play their game.  As mentioned before, it would have had to include all of the game play options such as world PvP, PvP rewards and end game raids that WoW has.

 

3. Star Wars the Old Republic (SWTOR) - This MMO has a lot of what WoW offers but not everything.  Additionally, things were not implemented very well in some areas.  It is as if the game wasn't polished and the developers intent was good, just not executed well.  If SWTOR had every single thing that WoW had and it was implemented well, it would have taken away a huge number of players from WoW.  Not only the ones that left WoW when SWTOR was released, but it would have taken more in later months when word got out the game was good.  Unfortunately that didn't happen and it backfired on them and many left the game either to go back to WoW or to some other game then back to WoW.

 

Why do WoW clones fail?  Easy answer: They don't include everything that WoW offers.  They offer some of the things that WoW has, but not everything.  When I state "everything", I'm talking about everything.  All functionality of how factions fight each other, end game raids, world pvp that involves invading another factions cities for an achievement, etc.  Why play another game even if it is free if it has less features (or options - whatever term you want to use) than a game that a player is already playing that the player is paying for?  The common player won't switch if it doesn't include everything in the game currently being played at a minimum.  Prior players of WoW also use the base game play style they used in WoW as their basis for newer MMOs.  Why?  Simple really, it has the most options.

 

The features I've mentioned here are not inclusive of everything that WoW offers in its game.  There are many others such as macros, addons, customization of game play screens through those addons to extend game play options.  Auto run, auto follow, targeting of group members for buffs (boons) or heals.

 

New MMOs which lock the players into a specific style of game play that the developers believe is the best will stop the full potential of what the game could have been if it didn't have the lock on it.

 

Will Elder Scrolls Online include everything WoW offers?  A resounding HELL NO.  It's not even some what close!  The developers of that game are going about the development of it similar to the way ArenaNet did with Guild Wars 2.  That is, they are trying to come up with new ways of playing their game which locks in the player base to playing how they want their players to play it.  By not including features and options, they believe it will be better than a game which has an extended list of options.  So the question is, how many people will play Elder Scrolls Online on its "Megaserver"?  Most of the Elder Scrolls fans will give it a try I'm sure.  Some other MMO fans will give it a try as well but it will not be any where near the success of WoW.  Guild Wars 2 has lost a substantial number of players within its first few months.  Sure there are some still playing but most have left for other games and some went back to WoW.  I predict a similar scenario happening with Elder Scrolls Online where the hype will draw a lot of interest but will fall by the way side as players are left wondering where the options (features/functionality/endgame whatever you want to call how the game can be played) are.  Based on viewing many different interviews with directors of different departments from Zenimax Online Studios, the game will be lacking in many areas most notably the combat system which appears to be very different from WoW, but doesn't include the different options of play style that WoW has.  It appears to be the way Tera works with a targeting system that doesn't have tab or other keys to taget the opponent.  It appears to have a very good 3 faction system which is far better than a two faction system in terms of PvP so that's a plus over WoW.

 

Will Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn have all of the features that WoW has and more?  Only time will tell.  It appears to have a good start at least because the man driving the entire development process made the statement that the intent is to include features of WoW.  That's the beginning of creating a great game that will unseat the champion of all MMOs.  Without that as the foundation for further development, new MMOs that start out different won't have as much success that WoW has.

 

Will Neverwinter Online have all of the features that WoW has?  Another resounding HELL NO!  Although it's an MMO that touts to be free, based on the game play videos on youtube, it appears to be more like a combination of Tera and Diablo 3 than anything else.  It has a targeting system similar to Tera and what happened with Tera?  Why didn't it become the new WoW killer?  Once again the answer is simple, it didn't include all of the game play options that WoW has.  It locked the player into a specific style of game play where the targeting system is different from WoW and some players like that, but it doesn't include many of the game play options that WoW has.

 

Will Everquest Next be as successful as WoW?  It appears this new game from Sony Online Entertainment will be a sandbox style of game with cutting edge graphics.  That's fine as long as it includes all of the things that WoW currently has which is PvP battlegrounds, different level rewards, factions which allow players to invade main cities and kill NPCs which may spark large scale combat between players on different sides.  It should include tab targetting as well as target reticle with the mouse.  Any game play style or game play option that WoW currently has which it does not offer will reduce the player base by the number of players which like that style of game play.

 

 

 

The bottom line: The MMO that has the most options in terms of game play for hardcore gamers, for casual gamers, for anyone with a variety of game features will be the clear winner.  Of course a good story (lore), good graphics, smooth combat, (production quality) need to be there, but right now WoW is the clear winner because it has the most options.  Develop an MMO which includes all of WoW's options and give it more and you'll beat it!  Develop an MMO which is different from WoW and doesn't include all of WoW's options, it won't beat it in terms of success.  How is success measured?  How many people are playing the MMO?

 

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Comments

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common

    No one will ever have WoW's success again.  And nothing should ever be compared to it because its an anamoly.

    You are also very wrong about why WoW became popular and has stayed popular.

  • AlberelAlberel LondonPosts: 1,121Member

    I'm sure that's part of it but it's really not that simple unfortunately. For one a huge chunk of WoW's subscribers don't even know what the MMO genre is or that there are other MMOs out there.

    A lot of players did leave WoW for each of the games you mentioned as well, but they were less noticable given the sheer size of WoW's playerbase.

    IMO devs need to try and pretend WoW doesn't exist. As long as they're trying to get a slice of Blizzard's pie they are always going to make inferior games. They need to be original and target a unique audience because those people playing WoW are happy where they are...

  • grimalgrimal Stamford, CTPosts: 2,873Member Uncommon
    Just see my sig.
  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Originally posted by Alberel

     

    IMO devs need to try and pretend WoW doesn't exist. As long as they're trying to get a slice of Blizzard's pie they are always going to make inferior games. They need to be original and target a unique audience because those people playing WoW are happy where they are...

    And we have a winner

  • just1opinionjust1opinion Kansas City, MOPosts: 4,844Member
    Originally posted by strangiato2112
    Originally posted by Alberel

     

    IMO devs need to try and pretend WoW doesn't exist. As long as they're trying to get a slice of Blizzard's pie they are always going to make inferior games. They need to be original and target a unique audience because those people playing WoW are happy where they are...

    And we have a winner

     

    I second that emotion. (play on words, I know...I'm a dork)

    President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  • GreenHellGreenHell ludlow, MAPosts: 1,322Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Deddpool
    Shorter answer: wow players have no attention span and don't want to go anywhere else because of all the work and time they put into wow.

    That really doesn't make any sense. They have no attention span but they had enough of a attention span to put  work in to WoW? Seems to me they have an attention span..maybe they just like WoW?

    @OP

    I read your post. I don't disagree with all of your points but even if those games added all of the elements of WoW what makes you think people would leave? Seriously, why play a clone of a game with just a few improvements? For over 8 years WoW has been a part of peoples lives. For some I'm sure it has become more than just a game.

    Why hasn't EQ or UO shutdown yet? You can argue that it is because they are unique and offer things that WoW does not..or it could be that after all of those years people are just comfortable there. They sacrifice by dealing with horrible, outdated graphics for the gameplay they enjoy. Why is it so hard to believe that even as WoW ages there will be people who feel the same way about it.

    For some people WoW was their first MMO. Probably a lot of people. Look at what games have come out since. Unfinished, buggy, boring, unoriginal,clones.  Why would someone that had WoW as a first MMO want to leave or even look for another game? If they have in the last 8 years they know what they have is the best thing going right now. What they have is a themepark that is really well done. Compare WoW to any other game in the last 8 years. It's almost sad.

    There is a reason WoW has dominated and it's not just because the other games have sucked. People like WoW. A lot of them. Why go searching for a different game if you are happy where you are?

     

  • NildenNilden null, NBPosts: 1,284Member Uncommon

    It's not about including everything WoW has it's about making a game that is better than WoW. There needs to be improvment. WoW set the bar and all the other MMOs have failed to pass it. It's not about having just one feature that's better like graphics either, the game as a whole needs to be better in almost every aspect and we have yet to see anything eclipse WoW because to the people playing it (and to a lot who quit) there is nothing substantially better.

    How to post links.

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

  • YukmarcYukmarc Fresno, CAPosts: 104Member Uncommon
    WoW is the Walmart and McDonalds of MMO's.
  • wowcloneswowclones Los Angeles, CAPosts: 127Member
    wow accumulated a lot of fans of the years.
  • AeonZenAeonZen North Bay, ONPosts: 43Member

    Awesome read.  I'm left wondering where all the open world PvP went since WoW.  SWTOR almost got it right, except each factions quests hubs rarely intersected on the worlds.  I do enjoy TERAs outlaw thingy.  But I always enjoyed WoWs open world PvP, even if there was ganking, it kept me on my toes and made the world more exciting and fun.  Like, you'd be just doing a quest and see the enemy faction and it just made handing in a quest a journey of it's own.

    Instanced PvP sucks.... 

    Battlegrounds in a game that already has good open world PvP is fun.

    I actually didn't return to WoW when the new games started coming out (winter 2011) mostly because I hadn't invested much time into it.  Then again I'm a solo MMO player so I don't get attached that often to people I meet and play with in game. 

    Yeah, if the devs actually didn't try to change the wheel so drastically, the new games could have been even better!  (I think they're actually pretty decent, I have fun in them).

    Meh, it's all good.  I'm happy I got to experience WoW back in the day. 

    Also, success isn't measured by populairity... usually the things that are underground and unheard of turn out to be better than what everyone is into.  For example, music.

  • WW4BWWW4BW KoldingPosts: 493Member

    A vast majority of WoW players started their MMO "career" with that game. They have no idea what they have missed out on in the previous MMOs.. and when comparing new MMOs  to WoW, WoW will win hands down every time. 

    Sure there might be some new ideas and mechanics in other games.. but most of those games are designed to cater to WoW players, and with expansions and 8 years of bug fixes and balancing WoW is far ahead of any new game that tries to grab players from it.

    Only other company that could have come close to doing something similar would be if EA had released a Command and Conquer themed MMO.. or maybe some sort of Mario World or Pokemon MMO. But I kinda doubt they could have pulled it off.. 

    I really hope developers and publishers will go back to making niche games so new types (or oldschool) of MMOs can get a chance to build up in quality and playerbase more slowly.. 

    I mean its clear that there are a lot of people that started with WoW that are ready to try something else.. why else would there be such a massive feeding frenzy at the release of these new and overhyped crapfests that we get currently... well Im sure some of those games could end up being quite good if they were given a chance and werent leaning so heavily on the artstyle and mechanics of WoW.. but nope.. they get hyped for months if not years and simply cant handlle the spotlight at launch.

    If we could have a period of a few years with releases of niche games.. Im sure that within 5 years we will have something that is bigger than WoW. With some of the newly invented features and concepts that have been proven by several indy games.. but   refined and seasoned with a few million extra in production, making a nice sauce to pour over a new IP.. 

  • dinamsdinams Muriae, VAPosts: 1,362Member

    Another thesis from an armchair developer?

    Color me surprised

    "It has potential"
    -Second most used phrase on existence
    "It sucks"
    -Most used phrase on existence

  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 1,934Member Uncommon

    I dont think I agree that everything WoW has plus something extra is required for MMO to achieve a huge success.

    I consider it to be quite scary idea. If developers thought this way, all we would be getting would be games similar to WoW in design with some additional aspects or minor changes.

    I am convinced that MMORPGs with truly original design can achieve a success of WoW.

    I would not go as far as saying that e.g. Minecraft got anywhere close to WoW's succes, but take a look at how ugly and simple in design the game is and how tremendously successful it was. The game has none of what WoW has to offer. The game just felt fresh.

    Of course originality on itself is not a key to success. The MMORPG in question has to be incredibly good as well to achieve WoW's success.

    Originality > WoW + Something extra on top

    in my opinion

    Waiting for L2 EU Classic

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,255Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by strangiato2112
    Originally posted by Alberel

     

    IMO devs need to try and pretend WoW doesn't exist. As long as they're trying to get a slice of Blizzard's pie they are always going to make inferior games. They need to be original and target a unique audience because those people playing WoW are happy where they are...

    And we have a winner

    I thought that was sort of how GW2 was being hyped up to be. 

    "The Anti-WoW"

    but do people really like that though? Nope.

     

    also look at many other new and upcoming MMOs. Darkfall also didn't pull numbers yet nothing is similar to WoW other than the theme of fantasy. 

     

    EvE is older yet nothing like Wozw yet also can't do it.

     

    on the other hand, Rift is a lot like WoW, but like the OP said, it lacks things that made WoW great. For example. It has faction vs faction PvP, yet fails due to the way developers didnt make the PvP meaningful and poorly designed game mechanics. Nobody ever raids player faction cities in Rift like they did in WoW. PvP rifts were a joke. Conquest is worst than GW2's WvW, even tho that doesn't say much. But it was bad. Simple as that.

    image

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,255Member Uncommon

    I agree with the OP on a lot of what he/she said. I am willing to debate on this.

    @quiz care to share your opinion?

    image

  • PreparedPrepared Irvine, CAPosts: 95Member Common
    Originally posted by nilden

    It's not about including everything WoW has it's about making a game that is better than WoW. There needs to be improvment. WoW set the bar and all the other MMOs have failed to pass it. It's not about having just one feature that's better like graphics either, the game as a whole needs to be better in almost every aspect and we have yet to see anything eclipse WoW because to the people playing it (and to a lot who quit) there is nothing substantially better.

     

    It's about including everything WoW has, but adding more.  Not better because better is a matter of opinion.  If the game doesn't have everything that WoW has, but is "better" it won't beat WoW.  My view is that Guild Wars 2 is better than WoW and I play it but I don't like that I'm locked into the way the developers want me to play it.  Is Guild Wars 2 really better than WoW?  It's a matter of opinion because it's different.  If it included everything WoW had plus gave a three faction system plus had its dynamic events and hearts and the other things it has, it would taken over the MMORPG genre.

    It's not about one feature over WoW, it's a few features over it.  The three faction system is one of them.  Dynamic events are also a feature that's good that isn't in WoW.

    Concerning the statement over popularity, my original post didn't mention that.  If I don't include something, it doesn't rule that option out as to a factor of why WoW started in its playerbase numbers.  True that did have a factor in how WoW began.  But think about it, let's say it had less features/options than the top MMORPG at that time which I believe was Everquest, but that Everquest II had more.   The Everquest II world wasn't as far developed in terms of the number of zones a player could go to.  But let's say that Everquest II had all of the zones that were in EQ 1 and it had all of the features and capabilities that are in WoW now, but WoW had less features than Everquest 1 did.  Where would WoW be at now?  How many people would have gone to it because of the name "Warcraft"?  How many would have left because they found Everquest II to have all of those features?

    My point is that features and options in an MMO play more a part in terms of the number of player base than anything else.  If your friends are playing it, is that because they developed their character there and don't want to let go?  If that's true, why did so many leave Everquest?  Some spent years in EQ 1 and moved to WoW instantly and stayed there.  Why?  Because of what it had over Everquest in terms of game play (features/functionality/end game - all of that stuff)?

    No MMORPG to date has had all of the features and options that are in WoW since its release.  WoW clones attempt to copy some of the features, but not all of them.  And a lot of MMORPG's tout a different combat system, but don't give the player the option to play the same way that WoW has it's combat system in regards to targeting enemies.  So people try it, find out it's lacking in many areas from what they've seen in WoW and end up going back to WoW because of that.  With some games, entire guilds leave WoW to play something else, only to come back months later because other games lack quality in terms of the number of things to do or the number of ways to play the MMO.

     

     

  • NildenNilden null, NBPosts: 1,284Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by strangiato2112
    Originally posted by Alberel

     

    IMO devs need to try and pretend WoW doesn't exist. As long as they're trying to get a slice of Blizzard's pie they are always going to make inferior games. They need to be original and target a unique audience because those people playing WoW are happy where they are...

    And we have a winner

    You don't make a better product by ignoring the competition.

    How to post links.

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

  • kamenriderkamenrider kapolei, HIPosts: 41Member

    I was a member of a large fps gaming community.  Many of us tried and disliked Ultima and EQ and vowed never to play this genre.  WoW released and we all loved it!  I can't tell you why but it was more fun than 99% of the games I've played.  People that didn't like gaming period, like my wife, really loved the game, and have never enjoyed anything else since. 

    WoW's success is due to Blizzard's ability to draw in millions of gamers and non-gamers that didn't like mmos to begin with.

    my2cents

  • AeolynAeolyn Langley, BCPosts: 216Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nilden
    Originally posted by strangiato2112
    Originally posted by Alberel

     

    IMO devs need to try and pretend WoW doesn't exist. As long as they're trying to get a slice of Blizzard's pie they are always going to make inferior games. They need to be original and target a unique audience because those people playing WoW are happy where they are...

    And we have a winner

    You don't make a better product by ignoring the competition.

    Correct, especially if that competition had had a large fanbase to draw from to start with, not to mention players from both UO and EQ among a few others that were already hooked on the online gameplay and looking to expand their horizons with any new choices available.

      "The game was released on November 23, 2004, on the 10th anniversary of the Warcraft franchise."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_Warcraft

     

  • NildenNilden null, NBPosts: 1,284Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Prepared

    It's about including everything WoW has, but adding more.  Not better because better is a matter of opinion.  If the game doesn't have everything that WoW has, but is "better" it won't beat WoW.

    It's all about opinion. Better is subjective to personal taste. If millions of people play it over anything else it is better by public opinion. If a game has everything WoW has it's just going to be a copy with more that doesn't make it better. You don't need to have every feature WoW has to make a better game.

    How to post links.

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    WOW has a large percentage of all the good features of MMOs .... so it is hard to beat it.

    But, there are plenty of online games with MMO features or similar gameplay that has the same kind of success.

    D3 - hack & slash dungeons .. 12M box sold . that is the number at the highest point of wow sub.

    LOL - arena type pvp .. MORE active users than WOW

     

  • iixviiiixiixviiiix GSPosts: 835Member Uncommon

    Tera combat system are interest but it not "unique" enough to make it success game.

    They just use old system of [?] and [!] then add new combat system. Of couse it don't success.

    Tera content don't revolve around combat system.

    Combat system just a little salt add in the meal .

    They (tera developers) chose safe ways with [?] and [!] ,because of it they lost change to success.

     

    It just my personal though

    If  tera's content revolved around combat system , it should be heavy combat grind game.

    No instance or mob drop gears only marterial. And they don't drop gold.

    Every gear come from crafting. Only sell bandages , all potions come from gatherers

    Quest don't give exp , they give gold and fame. They are main source of gold if you get enough fame , you can change it to specal marterial from NPC

    30 + man raid BAM.

    Weekly castle siege

    Guild owned over instances system , fight over marterial source.

    ...ect...

    Use all system that can make they sell point combat system shine

    And they (tera developers) should stop being haunted by shadow of  [?] and [!] system , they don't mix well with heavy combat game like Tera

     

    Though we can't blame developer for chosed easy way , but if they make a big game , they should be more brave and step for diffrence ways . If they don't , they will just be crushed by they own weight.

     

  • slickbizzleslickbizzle Matthews, NCPosts: 464Member
    Originally posted by Prepared

     

    Some examples of how games released in recent years could have been the new king:

     

     

     

     

    Who says one of the new (or old) MMO's isn't the king?    Last I read, PWI had over 20 million players worldwide.  GW2 beat out MoP in sales.  Tera is starting to gain steam.  LotRo has more NA/EU players than Warcraft.

     

     

  • PreparedPrepared Irvine, CAPosts: 95Member Common
    Originally posted by slickbizzle
    Originally posted by Prepared

     

    Some examples of how games released in recent years could have been the new king:

     

     

     

     

    Who says one of the new (or old) MMO's isn't the king?    Last I read, PWI had over 20 million players worldwide.  GW2 beat out MoP in sales.  Tera is starting to gain steam.  LotRo has more NA/EU players than Warcraft.

     

     

     

    Where do you get your information?  PWI?  Perfect World?  It has 9 servers in the world.  Source of this information is from http://pwi.perfectworld.com/status

    So you're saying the game has over 1 million players on each of those servers?  I don't think so.

    GW2 sold just over 3 million copies.  WoW has about 9 million something subscribers from the last I'd seen.  Almost all of those are playing MoP.  Tera may be gaining recently since it went free to play, but it's still only got a few servers running.  Guild Wars 2 has 24 servers in the United States and 27 in Europe according to their web site http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World

    Lotro has 14 servers running.  Source of this information is here: http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Category:Live_Servers

    How many servers are currently in operation for WoW?   WoW has 241 servers for the United States and Europe has 263 servers.  Source of information: http://www.wowwiki.com/Realm ;

    This information provides current server numbers only, not subscriber base nor actual players.  But I'd venture to say WoW is far superior in terms of how many players are playing their game versus the others you've mentioned.  Another way to view player interest is to go to twitch.tv and see how many people are viewing others that play the games.  League of Legends usually reigns supreme there, but it's not an MMORPG ( Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game ).

     

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member

    WoW caters to everyone, it's the McDonalds of game design, it opened up MMO to the mass audience of casuals.

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