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Is ESO turning into what GW2 could have been?

darkhalf357xdarkhalf357x Brooklyn, NYPosts: 1,164Member Uncommon

Its an interesting question.  But first.  All of you who use the words 'hater' or 'fanboi' please post somewhere else.  This is a critical conversation about a comparison.

Lets also understand that none of us have played the game and ANYTHING can change.  This is a discussion based on what we know and what we feel based on what we know. period.

I'm doing some reading on ESO and to be honest wasn't even on my radar.  Now it trumps ArcheAge.  I'm not the biggest fan of Skyrim (own and played it) but the idea of an online version is appealing to me.  Now I find out they are going with first person combat.  No defined trinity (http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/news/post/2013/03/08/ask-us-anything-combat/) and an end game I can personally deal with.  Its sounding promising.

I still have to read about crafting but heard it is viable even at max level.  Only major thing missing for me is Housing.  Adding that would be nice - even if its in the future.

Now I look back on GW2. Which I pre-purchased and was in since the beta.  I loved the style and world of Tyria - it has potential.  But I feel ArenaNet fell down in terms of lore and bringing an 'interesting' world to explore.  Now of course we can debate this (and have) in other threads.  So this is not is ESO better than GW2 but more so if you felt let down from GW2 do you see ESO as another attempt to do it right.

I look at the:

- small hotbar that allows you to swap 'builds'

- No real trinity / play as you want

- Dungeons that you can repeat at max level for different rewards

- A world to explore

- A viable 'end-game'

 I looked for an aspect of each of the above to be in GW2 but I didnt get it in my personal experience.  ESO to me just looks like to mimic (the majority) of the GW2 features but seems to be doing it in a better way.  A stickler I guess would be around how looting is handled and if you can share a node.  Its not a show stopper if they dont, but see it as stupid to not have it in all MMOs (except for the explicit old school feeling ones) going forward.

Hope I get into the beta, but either way I will give this title 30 days.  Sub or not.  Looking to have potential so far.  At the very least I like the field of the type of MMOs is at least spreading out.

What are you thoughts?

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Comments

  • darkhalf357xdarkhalf357x Brooklyn, NYPosts: 1,164Member Uncommon
    Also there is supposedly 'raid like' PvE content for groups of players at end game.  And what about that 3 faction PvP?  DAoC worthy?  I wouldnt know as I'm horrible at PvP but thought I would ask ;-)

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  • dreamscaperdreamscaper Somewhere, NCPosts: 1,582Member Uncommon
    It depends on what you think GW2 should have been. I personally think it's a fantastic game that accomplished much of what they set out to do initially. My expectations for ESO are far lower than what most people had for GW2.

    <3

  • darkhalf357xdarkhalf357x Brooklyn, NYPosts: 1,164Member Uncommon

    100% agree.  GW2 is a quality game.  I do not deny that.

    I guess my question is if you look at GW2 agnostically - does ESO look like a replica.

    My subjective view is that ESO is a GW2 for a different crowd.  

    From a high level - looks like the end (of the dominance) of WoW frameworks - which to me can only be a good thing.

    There is no point in having expectations in an MMO.  I just wait to play them and decide if I like them then.  Only down side is I end up playing all MMOs ;-p

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  • BahamutKaiserBahamutKaiser Hyattsville, MDPosts: 306Member

    Wish I understood either game well enough to contribute, but I'll bump and read more of yals comments. I may have to get GW2 eventually just because they've pioneered a lot, even though I still have a grudge over GW original...

    PS type out Elder Scrolls Online, I know it's popular, but this is not the ESO forum or thread, and not everyone is informed.

    Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes.
    That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,931Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by darkhalf357x

    I guess my question is if you look at GW2 agnostically - does ESO look like a replica.

     

    I haven't followed details closely, but ESO to me looks like a GW2 DAOC hybrid.  Most of the trendy stuff seems to be pulls from GW2 design, wrapped in a DAOC 3-faction RVR framework.

     

    However, I'm also of the opinion that ESO is holding back on bombshell details, features that will push sales significantly.  If I'm right, we'll see a major flood of these details 3 months or so before release to build box sales.

     


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,257Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by darkhalf357x

    I look at the:

    - small hotbar that allows you to swap 'builds'

    - No real trinity / play as you want

    - Dungeons that you can repeat at max level for different rewards

    - A world to explore

    - A viable 'end-game'

     I looked for an aspect of each of the above to be in GW2 but I didnt get it in my personal experience.  ESO to me

    care to explain how the red works in TESO?

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  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member

    Unless ESO become a wow killer, people will just keep talking about how fail it is.  And even if it does become a wow killer, people'll still talk trash about it and say it sucks and it destroy the mmorpg genre.

    Let me ask you this, why do you expect GW2 to be a good game?  I tryed like 50 games over the year and all of them sucks, so I don't have a high expection for my next one.  That being said, GW2 is better than those 50 other games I played, because I'm playing GW2 now and not those 50 other mmorpg.

    People's expectation are just too high.  The reality is why do mmorpg have to keeep getting better.  I mean people always say those old mmorpg are great yet "they quit them".  If they are so great why don't people play it for 10 years like how some wow/lineage/ or eve player is doing.

  • MaephistoMaephisto somewhere, DCPosts: 632Member

    There are certainly some similarities between the two.

    Let's hope TESO has been able to take some of the ideas GW2 had and iterate/improve upon them.  I like how character classes are a shell and your choice in weapons and armor provide a lot of your skills.  In GW2, I never enjoyed the dragon fights, they seemed shallow and thier purpose was only to acquire rares/precursors.  Lets hope TESO improved this kind of pve content.

    Sounds promising, but they have relatively large shoes to fill.

    EDIT:  I wont comment on AvA.  I know nothing about it.  I will wait to actually play the game before really comparing the two games. 

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  • Crazy_StickCrazy_Stick Privacy Preferred, NCPosts: 1,059Member

    I do not feel TESO is some form of carbon copy of GW2 but rather that both games represent ideas of where pro development teams felt the market for “good" games was going to be when their respective titles began production. It’s no surprise the pros came to similar conclusions and you can see such similarities between titles in differing release eras. You could say these games are an outgrowth of the complaints from the true WOW clone days. The success or failure of this generation of title releases and the features in them will obviously influence the next and many teams will draw similar conclusions to be handled in their own unique way.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dreamscaper
    It depends on what you think GW2 should have been. I personally think it's a fantastic game that accomplished much of what they set out to do initially. My expectations for ESO are far lower than what most people had for GW2.

    Pretty much this ^

    There's no question that TESO is taking a lot from GW2. There's quite a number of features in the game that are very similar to some found in GW2. It really depends on where you think GW2 is flawed. I think probably the biggest area they seem to be making advancements in (at least imho) is in world pvp (ie. WvW in GW2). Though Anet is also working on improving WvW atm, so who knows which game will have it better.

  • BahamutKaiserBahamutKaiser Hyattsville, MDPosts: 306Member
    Originally posted by laokoko

    Unless ESO become a wow killer, people will just keep talking about how fail it is.  And even if it does become a wow killer, people'll still talk trash about it and say it sucks and it destroy the mmorpg genre.

    Let me ask you this, why do you expect GW2 to be a good game?  I tryed like 50 games over the year and all of them sucks, so I don't have a high expection for my next one.  That being said, GW2 is better than those 50 other games I played, because I'm playing GW2 now and not those 50 other mmorpg.

    People's expectation are just too high.  The reality is why do mmorpg have to keeep getting better.  I mean people always say those old mmorpg are great yet "they quit them".  If they are so great why don't people play it for 10 years like how some wow/lineage/ or eve player is doing.

    Might be because games can accel in different values. like storyline, gameplay, content, or longevity.  MMOs are heavily expected to have longevity... but that isn't actually necessary for a game to be good, console games are still rockin hard.  When it comes to something like GW2, in perspective, your probably getting supreme quality for your $60... whether it has longevity like WoW is more a branded expectation and perogative of classic MMOs trying to maintain their subscriptions indefinately.

    I'm honestly not that concerned about how long an MMO lasts, it's one of the attractive features of online gameplay, but I can still enjoy a game that is only a few thousand hours long and has online gameplay.

    Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes.
    That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.

  • KanethKaneth Posts: 1,930Member Uncommon

    In some ways ESO is a step forward from where GW2 left off. Similar combat system, but more freedom when it comes to weapon/gear choices. A potentially more robust crafting system. High level progression systems in mind (aka world exploration unlocking). Not to mention the possible raid like experiences.

    I haven't seen anything about level scaling for areas though, and I fear that if your character level isn't adjusted down (like GW2), that many areas will go unused post launch. It also makes an artificial barrier for friends, guildmates to play together. Which is something GW2 excels at.

    It feels like the two games are coming from a similar idea and spirit, but each will have very different mechanics as well. I could easily see myself playing both games quite a bit.

    I won't say that ESO is what GW2 could have been, because GW2 is a solid mmo experience. Actually one of the most fun I've had in years. I am hoping that ESO will be a different, but equally enjoyable experience as well.

  • NaMeNaMeNaMeNaMe EnglandPosts: 88Member
    Originally posted by MMOExposed
    Originally posted by darkhalf357x

    I look at the:

    - small hotbar that allows you to swap 'builds'

    - No real trinity / play as you want

    - Dungeons that you can repeat at max level for different rewards

    - A world to explore

    - A viable 'end-game'

     I looked for an aspect of each of the above to be in GW2 but I didnt get it in my personal experience.  ESO to me

    care to explain how the red works in TESO?

    Basicallt in TESO you have skill trees. Armor skill trees, Class skill trees, Weapon skill trees and Racial/other skill trees like like a lycanthrope skill tree. 

    Now you have 5 or 6 skill slots where you can fit weapon, skill skills, racial/other skills into those slots. 

    You also have weapon swap allowing you to fit another 5 or 6 skills into those skill shots. 

     

    Example :  A Sorc with a Two handed weapon dealing physical and augements elemental damage, they have chosen the Storm Calling (think it's called) class skill tree (1 out of 5 i think)  meaning they slot skills they have chosen from the two handed weapon skill tree into their hot bar and skills from thier class skill tree into their hot bar. That Sorc can then swap weapon to a Staff and slot his skills with Elemental magical ablilites. 

    Unlike in GW2 where choice is really limiting to a point where you can't choose your 1 - 5 skills, in TESO you are given a great amount of choice when playing your class, HOW YOU WANT TO. Ala i want to be a heavy armor sorc that uses a two handed weapon and shots fire balls, you can do this. 

    "if u forcefully insert foriegn objects into my? body, i will die"

  • NaMeNaMeNaMeNaMe EnglandPosts: 88Member
    Originally posted by Kaneth

    In some ways ESO is a step forward from where GW2 left off. Similar combat system, but more freedom when it comes to weapon/gear choices. A potentially more robust crafting system. High level progression systems in mind (aka world exploration unlocking). Not to mention the possible raid like experiences.

    I haven't seen anything about level scaling for areas though, and I fear that if your character level isn't adjusted down (like GW2), that many areas will go unused post launch. It also makes an artificial barrier for friends, guildmates to play together. Which is something GW2 excels at.

    It feels like the two games are coming from a similar idea and spirit, but each will have very different mechanics as well. I could easily see myself playing both games quite a bit.

    I won't say that ESO is what GW2 could have been, because GW2 is a solid mmo experience. Actually one of the most fun I've had in years. I am hoping that ESO will be a different, but equally enjoyable experience as well.

    They have already confirmed you will get downleveled like in GW2.

    "if u forcefully insert foriegn objects into my? body, i will die"

  • fiontarfiontar Dana, MAPosts: 3,719Member

    Although GW2 is still a great game and arguably one of the best ever in the MMO space, we didn't really know that GW2 failed to live up to it's full potential until after release. We know a lot less about ESO than we knew about GW2, so speculating that it could "be what GW2 could have been" is pretty pointless at this point.

    ESO looks like it has potential and it looks like they may be bringing a lot of the same things to the table that GW2 has. Will it be as good or better? Will it deliver in ways GW2 has failed to? At this point, who the heck knows.

    I'm still playing GW2, but I'm always watching the genre and ESO looks to be among the most promising MMOs in development, but it could be complete crap and we won't know it until people get to play it and talk about their experiences, or we get to try it for ourselves.

    Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
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  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    I love GW2... favorite MMO of all time. It's encouraging to see ESO may be following a lot of what ANet has started and may even take it further from there. Even though I have no interest in playing ESO I wish them great success as another company willing to toss the archaic model in the trash and go for something fresher.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
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  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member
    I'm just happy the direction things are moving now.  GW2 is a great game, and hopefully TESO will be as well.
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,281Member Uncommon

    It is a interesting question,  We've heard ESO's people use a lot of the buzz words GW2's people used. I think the two seem more similar than different. 

     

    On paper ESO will carry some of the same principles that I believe didn't allow GW2 to become more. No Wpvp, and what seems to be completely separate pvp and pve. I hope I'm wrong on the last point.

     

    Does anyone know if items gained through pvp and vice versa will be able to be used in the opposite areas?

     

     

  • azarhalazarhal Somewhere, BCPosts: 762Member Uncommon

    TESO is getting inspiration from more than just GW2. In fact, I would say it take as much inspiration from GW1.

    • It seems to want to be closer to DAoC RvR than GW2 WvW.
    • The build system works more like GW1 than GW2 with more skill lines, no hotbar slot locked to weapons and no dual classing to achieve it. Skill points acquisition is more like GW2 though. Raising skill through usage is a TES thing.
    • The Trinity implementation is more like GW1 as well (which most people consider doesn't have the trinity). The difference is that TESO have taunts (which GW1 doesn't have).
    • Energy management heavy ability system like GW1 (but without cooldowns).
    • The game have "hardcore mode" zones, except that they are in the other alliances and not the same campaign zones like in GW1. Not quite the same, but still similar.
    • Combat gameplay is inspired from Skyrim/Oblivion.
    • Emphasis on questing but not like GW2/SWTOR, it is based on what you find in Skyrim/Oblivion.
    • It also will have features popularized by GW2 like no mob tagging (already being copied by existing MMOs), downscaling (although, that was said a long time ago, not sure if it is still in) and dynamic events.
    • We are going to see the return of "EQ" public dungeons.
    All in all, they are just doing what Blizzard did: steal from lots of previous games and make your own version of it.
  • ApraxisApraxis RegensburgPosts: 1,515Member Uncommon
    No i personally think ESO will be like GW2 actually is. Of course different at some points but basicly very similar. We will finally see when it is released, and we can play it.
  • JasonJJasonJ New Port Richey, FLPosts: 395Member
    Originally posted by darkhalf357x

    What are you thoughts?

     One is real, the other is hype.

    One is not painted into a small box, the other is based off one (DaoC).

    One, not being in a small box allows for future content that can be vastly different than what it has, the other will forever have invisible walls closing off faction lands preventing any real expansion of future gameplay variety.

    One has a war that is PvE based that can suddenly be turned into an open world faction based war...the other, forever locked into the same thing.

    One has a future that holds a vast variety of possiblities because of its open design. The other is locked into 13 year old ideas that locks a game into limited possibilites.

    And only one provides the opportunity to end up with an emperor named lagollaas of pwnurface guild totally runing the entire feel of the game...faction pride! All hail lagollaas!

  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,607Member Uncommon

    It really does seem like TESO is taking a lot of ideas from GW2 and improving upon them.


    TESOs version of skill bars and weapon skills do sound like definite improvements.


    We will just have to see how well TESO actually implements these improvements in-game.

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,257Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

    It really does seem like TESO is taking a lot of ideas from GW2 and improving upon them.


    TESOs version of skill bars and weapon skills do sound like definite improvements.


    We will just have to see how well TESO actually implements these improvements in-game.

    Wasn't that the original argument for War on WoW. But failed. Always fail.

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  • DeaconXDeaconX Toronto, ONPosts: 3,067Member

    GW2 is a great freemium mmorpg, but it's pretty lacking in the narrative design department. Many of the stories are pretty loose and weak, not really pulling players in. Still, it's a fine playground and great for explorers.

     

    TESO is looking far richer in story and game depth as far as character customization goes. If they decide to later add a few sandbox elements, not much, just a few like building your home/decorating it as you want and such... it could really be something special which players will be easily able to connect with and feel like they can carve out a little virtual second life of their own.

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    Why do I write, create, fantasize, dream and daydream about other worlds? Because I hate what humanity does with this one.

    BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.

  • DauzqulDauzqul Detroit, MIPosts: 1,410Member Uncommon

    I don't understand why people are so hyped about ESO.  It ultimately looks to be the same old crap, e.g., linear story paths, small "pathed" worlds, follow the "compass" or arrow to the next quest etc.

     

    I'm not reading any player-generated content here. Thus, will most likely be another 30-days of entertainment before redundant boredom kicks in.

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