Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Why no RAIDS?

1356

Comments

  • EcocesEcoces Chicago, ILPosts: 879Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vembumees
    Originally posted by Ecoces

    people don't like raids because of the attitudes that come with it and because those people that demand raids usually try to force their agenda on everyone else and the developers.

     

    I read in another post of yours(OP) you mention something to the extent of "whats wrong with having unique gear from raids as well as crafting". here is the problem with that logic is raiders actually will cry and moan if you got raid quality gear from crafting. ever play rift? do you know that in Alpha and Beta Trion said that you would be able to get the best gear in games from Raids, PVP or Crafting ... that the player would be able to get the best gear no matter their playstyle.

     

    yeah that lasted till the first new raid zone came out with a bit better gear. then the "bads" or "casuals" as they are called by raiders wondered when crafting would get new recipes to make comparable gear. only to be shouted down by raiders saying "oh you shouldn't get gear as good as raiders if you don't raid".

     

    but they did add where you could add Raid quality gear to crafting ..... if you got mats that dropped from raid instances lol.

     

    that and also Raiders try to strong arm the developers in developing new content only for them. i have seen it too many times where if the developers work on a lower level zone the raiders complain, if the developers work on fluff things the raiders complain. hell if the developers work on anything that isn't the new script for that new boss for that new raid zone that only 1% of the population will ever see the raiders complain.

    I thought casuals and bads are, you know, casuals and bads. If you are shit in whatever game you play, you will be called out for it. You can go play Maple story and if you are a casual and bad, then you are a casual and baddie. Understand that. There's nothing wrong with being casual player, but don't expect people to treat you equally, when you have barely even tenth of the experience of the hardcore player.

    I don't give a shit what gives what gear honestly, but it is just frustrating to see people cry about the elitism, elitism has nothing to do with raiding. I probably play god damn, I have no idea how much I play games overall, mostly 8-14 hours a day for years straight. Of course I am elitist in every game. Because I AM better player than the person who spends 3 hours a day. I am better than him at the game in every way, more skilled, more experienced and understand the mechanics 4-5x more.  I don't know, maybe you are just too young to understand it, but that's how entier world works. That's how real life is. A person who works 15 hours a day is better at the profession than you who work 8 hours a day. And if you ask your boss to get paid as much for same work as the guy who works 15 hours a day and you get insulted for that, is that elitism? Where is your brain kid.

    thanks for proving my point! as for elitist been there done that got the Tshirt you see you aren't talking to some casual, i have done the raiding, i raided with some of the best in EQ, the guild i was apart of had many world firsts in EQ2(go look up Ne Plus Ultra)

     

    as for the kid comment, im 36 years old, i have pubic hairs almost as old as you child.

     

  • hMJemhMJem Marysville, WAPosts: 465Member
    Originally posted by JasonJ
    Originally posted by hMJem

    Much like how hardcore TES fans wanted 1st person even though traditional MMO fans didnt care, it was added in because it doesnt hurt anyone.

     No.

    1st person is not equal to raids. Your argument is invalid. Raids hurt everyone because raiders all want to raid for gear causing a massive imbalance in the playerbase and a downward spiral of the game in all aspects from PvE to PvP and even greatly effects future content which must be curned out just for raiders causing an even greater imbalance because that content must be made vastly harder placing it out of reach of everyone else.

    1st person however harms nobody because the choice of using or not using effects none.

    Crafting gives the best gear in Elder Scrolls Online from what we've been told several times. Now, I dont have to craft. I really dont. That just means unless someone gifts me a super sexy item, I'm not getting the best gear in the game, which is my choice. Why cant people be realistic like that? Just because you buy a game doesnt mean you should instantly get all the content and best gear in the game.

     

    I dont have to do the extra two factions quests, but there is a chance I'll get upgrades and such from that. It's my choice. I shouldnt whine "GM! SUMMON ME THE BEST GEAR AND SUCH IN THE GAME! I BOUGHT YOUR GAME WTF!"

     

    "Elitists" as you wish to call them typically are more realistic than people who wanted the game delayed for 1st person.

  • VembumeesVembumees WildStarPosts: 79Member
    Originally posted by JasonJ

    Either way, no amount of raids is going to give them the profits they are expecting. DaoCs game design will keep the millions they are expecting away.

    Screenshot it and save it please so you could read it in 2014 and delete it quickly.

  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Long Island, NYPosts: 480Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JasonJ
    Originally posted by TalulaRose

    No raiding means no money beyond the box price.

     

    Just look at the GW2 polls that asked if people were spending money in the cash shop. 70% of the so called fans said no. an anyone call themelves a fan if they wont support the game?

     70% not buying means 30% is...30% of 3 million people is 900,000.

    If 900k spend just $10 a month thats 9,000,000 per month (equal to 600k subs), 108,000,000 per year.

    And THAT is why you people cannot grasp how companies like Nexon, Perfect World, NCsoft and so many other F2P companies are taking over the market...they make profits far beyond subscription based companies outside of Blizzard. Jesus, Nexon spent somewhere around 400 MILLION dollars in buying out or investing in other companies last year, that is INSANE.

    They aren't paying $10 a month because if they were than it would be just like a subscription based game. And we all know that many of the GW2 fans are anti subscription. They spen $10 once, then nothing.

     

    PW games are much less quality then sub-based games. Thats just plain obvious and why they aren't popular in the NA market.

  • HellidolHellidol TACOMA, WAPosts: 405Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JasonJ
    Originally posted by Vembumees

    Wizard 101 and guild wars. I think you don't understand. A company like Zenimax doesn't want to do pretty well for itself. That's a god damn multimillion company, they are already doing FAR MORE THAN WELL. They want to be successful and make massive amounts of profit. Any indie game is doing well too. Tibia is doing well too right now, you know? Does Zenimax aim for the playerbase of the size of Tibia, Guild Wars 2, Wizard 101? Hell no.

     I already pointed out above, if they wanted to make massive amounts of profit, they wouldnt have used the crapfest DaoC game design that FEW in the MMORPG market know about, or like.

    A game that had 250k players at a time when 3 other games had MORE is not a design to base yourself off of when there are now some 20 million MORE players that have since joined the market and have NO CONCEPTION of this closed of faction crap with funneled PvP content that the market as a whole did NOT WANT TO EMULATE because of the tiny box it paints the game into.

    And it sure as hell is not targetting the IPs fanbase with that design either. Its targetting DaoC fans, and there are not enough of them to do what you are saying. the only hope they have of making a massive profit is if every single TES fan buys it and then quits because it isnt what they want. Then, they will get their quick payback on their initial investment from box sales and make their profit off the DaoC fans playing only to then go F2P shortly afterwards because the company wanted MORE.

    Either way, no amount of raids is going to give them the profits they are expecting. DaoCs game design will keep the millions they are expecting away.

    This shows the limits of your creativity, this game just isnt for you, wow is much more simple and seems the game for you.

    image
  • JasonJJasonJ New Port Richey, FLPosts: 395Member
    Originally posted by hMJem

    "Elitists" as you wish to call them typically are more realistic than people who wanted the game delayed for 1st person.

     No, elitites equate the time it takes to make a camera adjustment to making raid content...

  • JasonJJasonJ New Port Richey, FLPosts: 395Member
    Originally posted by Hellidol

    Either way, no amount of raids is going to give them the profits they are expecting. DaoCs game design will keep the millions they are expecting away.

    This shows the limits of your creativity, this game just isnt for you, wow is much more simple and seems the game for you.

    Actually, it shows the limits of THIER creativity for going back and using a 13+ year old idea that nobody else wanted because of its design flaws...and their lack of being able to come up with anything original, which you dont see from other designers that have been making MMOs for as long...every single one of them, even the ones I CANT STAND like Raph Koster at least created 3 very DIFFERENT designs and new ideas.

  • HellidolHellidol TACOMA, WAPosts: 405Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JasonJ
    Originally posted by Hellidol

    Either way, no amount of raids is going to give them the profits they are expecting. DaoCs game design will keep the millions they are expecting away.

    This shows the limits of your creativity, this game just isnt for you, wow is much more simple and seems the game for you.

    Actually, it shows the limits of THIER creativity for going back and using a 13+ year old idea that nobody else wanted because of its design flaws...and their lack of being able to come up with anything original, which you dont see from other designers that have been making MMOs for as long...every single one of them, even the ones I CANT STAND like Raph Koster at least created 3 very DIFFERENT designs and new ideas.

    You do understand the the main guy developing this game is one of the guys that made the first most successful MMO out there, call UO. People still love that game even tho it hurts my eyes because of the dated graphics and programming. You are just wrong when you say raiding has to be in a MMO or it will fail. WoW just did it right first and continues to for that type of game play. This game will capitalize on what other games in the past couldn't because of technology at that time. You will see a much larger, more complete gamer come from this, those that want end game gear have to be much more creavite inorder to get it, they simply cant raid their way to the top which is boring and very simple. DoCa, EVE, UO, Shadowbane all great games with shitty programming and shitty graphics. This game could have everything those games wanted to do with the visuals to get it done.

    image
  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Long Island, NYPosts: 480Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JasonJ
    Originally posted by Hellidol

    Either way, no amount of raids is going to give them the profits they are expecting. DaoCs game design will keep the millions they are expecting away.

    This shows the limits of your creativity, this game just isnt for you, wow is much more simple and seems the game for you.

    Actually, it shows the limits of THIER creativity for going back and using a 13+ year old idea that nobody else wanted because of its design flaws...and their lack of being able to come up with anything original, which you dont see from other designers that have been making MMOs for as long...every single one of them, even the ones I CANT STAND like Raph Koster at least created 3 very DIFFERENT designs and new ideas.

    They should remove dungeons, used in the old MMOs as well. Take out crafting as well, oh ya...pvp, another old mechanic. Classes, yup...take that out. Abilites, another pesky mechanic used in the games of old.

     

    Why people just admit that they have a misguided personal grudge against raids because they envy the items obtained from raids but just don't want to put in the effort to get them.

  • JasonJJasonJ New Port Richey, FLPosts: 395Member
    Originally posted by TalulaRose
    Originally posted by JasonJ
    Originally posted by Hellidol

    Either way, no amount of raids is going to give them the profits they are expecting. DaoCs game design will keep the millions they are expecting away.

    This shows the limits of your creativity, this game just isnt for you, wow is much more simple and seems the game for you.

    Actually, it shows the limits of THIER creativity for going back and using a 13+ year old idea that nobody else wanted because of its design flaws...and their lack of being able to come up with anything original, which you dont see from other designers that have been making MMOs for as long...every single one of them, even the ones I CANT STAND like Raph Koster at least created 3 very DIFFERENT designs and new ideas.

    They should remove dungeons, used in the old MMOs as well. Take out crafting as well, oh ya...pvp, another old mechanic. Classes, yup...take that out. Abilites, another pesky mechanic used in the games of old.

     

    Why people just admit that they have a misguided personal grudge against raids because they envy the items obtained from raids but just don't want to put in the effort to get them.

     Only raids are a new concept not an old one...thanks for trying though...not even DaoC released with raids, that came after an xpac. Please try to frame your arugment to actually SOUND like its a strong one if you are going to inject sarcasm to discredit...you couldnt even touch on what I was calling outdated concepts which had nothing to do with raids because of your blind defense.

  • YukmarcYukmarc Fresno, CAPosts: 104Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TalulaRose
    Originally posted by Yukmarc

    I have always thought that raids prevented people from playing the characters that they truly want to play. Instead, they create a character that other players want in the raids with them. So you end up with having your character spec'd exactly like the other guy instead of how YOU want it. I think it's a fantastic idea.

    However....

    Because of the RvR in this game, everyone will still be falling into that same trap.

    Most games I now allow the player to have multiple builds. And even if it doesn't, when it somes to working with a group of people isn't it better to build a character the synergizes with the group. I know I know, why shouldn't you be able to do your own thing? That leads to the question, if you want to do your own thing for you why are you trying to do group based content.

    Have you ever played a PnP RPG? Did you create the character that you wanted or something that the group wanted? Have you ever played a MUD? This is where MMO's came from. Nobody told me what I needed to play as a group in UO or EQ, I made what I wanted, I played the way I wanted to play and always had groups and guilds. Players telling me what I can and can't do based on a 3rd party "gear score" is crap and this is where the problem lies. After all, it IS an RPG.

  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Long Island, NYPosts: 480Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JasonJ
    Originally posted by TalulaRose
    Originally posted by JasonJ
    Originally posted by Hellidol

    Either way, no amount of raids is going to give them the profits they are expecting. DaoCs game design will keep the millions they are expecting away.

    This shows the limits of your creativity, this game just isnt for you, wow is much more simple and seems the game for you.

    Actually, it shows the limits of THIER creativity for going back and using a 13+ year old idea that nobody else wanted because of its design flaws...and their lack of being able to come up with anything original, which you dont see from other designers that have been making MMOs for as long...every single one of them, even the ones I CANT STAND like Raph Koster at least created 3 very DIFFERENT designs and new ideas.

    They should remove dungeons, used in the old MMOs as well. Take out crafting as well, oh ya...pvp, another old mechanic. Classes, yup...take that out. Abilites, another pesky mechanic used in the games of old.

     

    Why people just admit that they have a misguided personal grudge against raids because they envy the items obtained from raids but just don't want to put in the effort to get them.

     Only raids are a new concept not an old one...thanks for trying though...not even DaoC released with raids, that came after an xpac. Please try to frame your arugment to actually SOUND like its a strong one if you are going to inject sarcasm to discredit...you couldnt even touch on what I was calling outdated concepts which had nothing to do with raids because of your blind defense.

     

    All comes down to personal preference. If we cater to ppl who don't like raids why not ater to those who don't like pvp, or crafting etc.

     

    Seems to me its a better idea to please all the groups instead of just excluding raiders. If ppl don;t like raids, don;t do them.

    This I don;t like raids so don;t ever include them seems to be one-sided and selfish.

  • JasonJJasonJ New Port Richey, FLPosts: 395Member
    Originally posted by Hellidol

    You do understand the the main guy developing this game is one of the guys that made the first most successful MMO out there, call UO.

     You do understand that not even Richard Garriott had full creative control over UO and most of it was done by Raph Koster right? No...otherwise you wouldnt have said that. Said so by Garriott himself, the man who funded and came up with the idea for UO and how it should play out. Thanks, come again. PS Garriott, Starr Long nor Rick Delashmit have anything to do with TESO.

  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Long Island, NYPosts: 480Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yukmarc
    Originally posted by TalulaRose
    Originally posted by Yukmarc

    I have always thought that raids prevented people from playing the characters that they truly want to play. Instead, they create a character that other players want in the raids with them. So you end up with having your character spec'd exactly like the other guy instead of how YOU want it. I think it's a fantastic idea.

    However....

    Because of the RvR in this game, everyone will still be falling into that same trap.

    Most games I now allow the player to have multiple builds. And even if it doesn't, when it somes to working with a group of people isn't it better to build a character the synergizes with the group. I know I know, why shouldn't you be able to do your own thing? That leads to the question, if you want to do your own thing for you why are you trying to do group based content.

    Have you ever played a PnP RPG? Did you create the character that you wanted or something that the group wanted? Have you ever played a MUD? This is where MMO's came from. Nobody told me what I needed to play as a group in UO or EQ, I made what I wanted, I played the way I wanted to play and always had groups and guilds. Players telling me what I can and can't do based on a 3rd party "gear score" is crap and this is where the problem lies. After all, it IS an RPG.

    And jhust because you crerated your character just the way you wanted doesn't make you entitled to do all content available.

    Others see a challenge and adapt to overcome. Others QQ and ask for the developers to take the challenge away to suit their own wants.

  • JasonJJasonJ New Port Richey, FLPosts: 395Member
    Originally posted by TalulaRose
    Originally posted by JasonJ

     Only raids are a new concept not an old one...thanks for trying though...not even DaoC released with raids, that came after an xpac. Please try to frame your arugment to actually SOUND like its a strong one if you are going to inject sarcasm to discredit...you couldnt even touch on what I was calling outdated concepts which had nothing to do with raids because of your blind defense.

     

    All comes down to personal preference. If we cater to ppl who don't like raids why not ater to those who don't like pvp, or crafting etc.

     

    Seems to me its a better idea to please all the groups instead of just excluding raiders. If ppl don;t like raids, don;t do them.

    This I don;t like raids so don;t ever include them seems to be one-sided and selfish.

     No. If they are not even targetting actual fans of the original IP, for DaoC fans, why should they cater to raiders which will vastly change whatever they have in place even more?!? All things are NOT equal.

    You can cater to crafters, pvpers, soloers, casuals and a ton of others without vastly changing what is in place. Once you toss in raids, thats it, it all changes unless you take away the ONE thing almost all raiders focus on...shiney gear rewards for raiding.

    Would you raid for a banner? for a costume? For a title?

    If you say no, you are NOT willing to compromise at all, and thus have no room for trying to equate raiding to crafting. If you are, then go get a petition going showing these closed minded developers that there actually ARE different ways to implement old ideas that wont put the game into a spirial of never ending upward demand for gear and super uber god mobs to stay ahead of the stat curve.

  • MukeMuke BredaPosts: 2,172Member Uncommon

    RAIDS are the fatal disease of MMOs

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • YukmarcYukmarc Fresno, CAPosts: 104Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vembumees
    Originally posted by Yukmarc

    I have always thought that raids prevented people from playing the characters that they truly want to play. Instead, they create a character that other players want in the raids with them. So you end up with having your character spec'd exactly like the other guy instead of how YOU want it. I think it's a fantastic idea.

    However....

    Because of the RvR in this game, everyone will still be falling into that same trap.

    Hey mister. Let me tell you what raids are for. Raids are for players who have more time than 5 hours a day to spend on the game, up to 15 hours. Raids are activities for players who play the game for a long time. I'm sorry, maybe we are just different people, but after I hit max level in a week after the game release (doesn't matter if its 1 day or 1 month), what will I do with that spec of yours if I don't have anything to use it on? Elaborate to me somehow and explain to me, if you play an mmorpg 5 hours a day, sometimes in the weekends even 10 hours. A YEAR straight. Lets say about 3000-4000 hours. Just a random estimate. What would you do all that time? Kill goblins? Do an easy dungeon over and over and over again? Do same battlegrounds 1000 hours straight? Have you played a themepark mmorpg for more than, lets say, half a year? I've played some for 5000-10000+ hours and I wouldn't ever even played a quarter of it without any raid content.

    Hey Mister, first of all, let me say, that you sir, need to get out more. That being said, yes, I have played multiple MMO's for YEARS. However, they were UO and DOAC. I find your type of MMO kind of boring. So if you want to fill your years playing themeparks, go ahead and stick with the current crop of them. You will always have a WoW clone available to you, but it doesn't mean that EVERY MMO has to be like that.

  • hMJemhMJem Marysville, WAPosts: 465Member
    Originally posted by Muke

    RAIDS are the fatal disease of MMOs

    And yet no other MMOS have been as successful as WoW and Everquest were. Or for WoW's case, still is since 9 million subscribers at $15 a month.

  • HellidolHellidol TACOMA, WAPosts: 405Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JasonJ
    Originally posted by Hellidol

    You do understand the the main guy developing this game is one of the guys that made the first most successful MMO out there, call UO.

     You do understand that not even Richard Garriott had full creative control over UO and most of it was done by Raph Koster right? No...otherwise you wouldnt have said that. Said so by Garriott himself, the man who funded and came up with the idea for UO and how it should play out. Thanks, come again. PS Garriott, Starr Long nor Rick Delashmit have anything to do with TESO.

    Notice i said "ONE" of the guys....the point is your mentality of MMO's need raiding to work is flawed and one sided. You bring no original though of your own, you relay on others to create a puzzle and you to figure it out. Personally I would raither contribute to making a puzzle or in this case molding my game play raither then wait for someone else to do everything. Give me the tools and I share create great art. Make the art for me and all I can do is comment on it. This game will have everything for everyone but the raider which is fine, its not the game for you, simple solution dont play it.

    image
  • HellidolHellidol TACOMA, WAPosts: 405Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by hMJem
    Originally posted by Muke

    RAIDS are the fatal disease of MMOs

    And yet no other MMOS have been as successful as WoW and Everquest were. Or for WoW's case, still is since 9 million subscribers at $15 a month.

    EVE comes to mind.....very successful by it own rights and in may peoples eyes....just not yours.

    image
  • hMJemhMJem Marysville, WAPosts: 465Member
    Originally posted by JasonJ
    Originally posted by TalulaRose
    Originally posted by JasonJ

     Only raids are a new concept not an old one...thanks for trying though...not even DaoC released with raids, that came after an xpac. Please try to frame your arugment to actually SOUND like its a strong one if you are going to inject sarcasm to discredit...you couldnt even touch on what I was calling outdated concepts which had nothing to do with raids because of your blind defense.

     

    All comes down to personal preference. If we cater to ppl who don't like raids why not ater to those who don't like pvp, or crafting etc.

     

    Seems to me its a better idea to please all the groups instead of just excluding raiders. If ppl don;t like raids, don;t do them.

    This I don;t like raids so don;t ever include them seems to be one-sided and selfish.

     No. If they are not even targetting actual fans of the original IP, for DaoC fans, why should they cater to raiders which will vastly change whatever they have in place even more?!? All things are NOT equal.

    You can cater to crafters, pvpers, soloers, casuals and a ton of others without vastly changing what is in place. Once you toss in raids, thats it, it all changes unless you take away the ONE thing almost all raiders focus on...shiney gear rewards for raiding.

    Would you raid for a banner? for a costume? For a title?

    If you say no, you are NOT willing to compromise at all, and thus have no room for trying to equate raiding to crafting. If you are, then go get a petition going showing these closed minded developers that there actually ARE different ways to implement old ideas that wont put the game into a spirial of never ending upward demand for gear and super uber god mobs to stay ahead of the stat curve.

    Your argument is illogical. Crafters whine because they dont want to group but want the best items in the game. When did they compromise? When Paul Sage said crafting gives the best gear in the game and that actually with crafting you can ENHANCE gear from dungeons? Anyone can laugh when they're on their high horse

     

    What's more illogical: People want an MMO to be engaging with other human players, or people who want to play an MMO as a single player game and still reap the rewards despite it being an MMO? To me it sounds much more logical to want to work with others in an MMO rather than isolate yourself.

  • VembumeesVembumees WildStarPosts: 79Member
    Originally posted by Yukmarc
    Originally posted by TalulaRose
    Originally posted by Yukmarc

    I have always thought that raids prevented people from playing the characters that they truly want to play. Instead, they create a character that other players want in the raids with them. So you end up with having your character spec'd exactly like the other guy instead of how YOU want it. I think it's a fantastic idea.

    However....

    Because of the RvR in this game, everyone will still be falling into that same trap.

    Most games I now allow the player to have multiple builds. And even if it doesn't, when it somes to working with a group of people isn't it better to build a character the synergizes with the group. I know I know, why shouldn't you be able to do your own thing? That leads to the question, if you want to do your own thing for you why are you trying to do group based content.

    Have you ever played a PnP RPG? Did you create the character that you wanted or something that the group wanted? Have you ever played a MUD? This is where MMO's came from. Nobody told me what I needed to play as a group in UO or EQ, I made what I wanted, I played the way I wanted to play and always had groups and guilds. Players telling me what I can and can't do based on a 3rd party "gear score" is crap and this is where the problem lies. After all, it IS an RPG.

    That was back in the day when the shit was easy, just with 100x more grind, only selected people played mmorpg's, a lot of casuals, people didn't theorycraft or require much because they didn't need to. Failing was natural to a lot of the players, because everyone was new.

    Lets now come to the present. What you describe will only happen in purely social and very easy games. Or just very low skill level. Like if there are very very easy dungeons, you can do whatever the fuck build you want in them. You can go and afk in wow LFR raids, nobody cares. That's what you are describing.

    Go play starcraft 2 multiplayer and try your own build, like rush tanks. If you do it in the bottom league, yeah you will do alright, because you are playing against bad and casual players. If you do it in high leagues you will get wrecked and laughed at in 5 minutes.

    Go play league of legends and try doing your own build. If you play low elo or pub games you will do ok. If you play against good players you will get absolutely stomped and insulted by your team for ruining their game.

    Same for dota.

    Same for shooters.

    Same for absolutely any game with any kind of challenge. If you build wrong, you will fail. That's how the games work. Don't bring your stupid examples, they are embarrassing.

  • hMJemhMJem Marysville, WAPosts: 465Member
    Originally posted by Hellidol
    Originally posted by hMJem
    Originally posted by Muke

    RAIDS are the fatal disease of MMOs

    And yet no other MMOS have been as successful as WoW and Everquest were. Or for WoW's case, still is since 9 million subscribers at $15 a month.

    EVE comes to mind.....very successful by it own rights and in may peoples eyes....just not yours.

    What is Zinemax trying to be -- The top little dog, or the top big dog?

     

    I'm sorry but saying youre as successful as Eve or Tera or Dragon Nest isnt impressive. i dont see how anyone can dispute that WoW isnt the most successful MMORPG of all time, with Everquest having to be top 2, top 3 at worst.

     

    To say raiding isnt a viable build structure for an MMO is false.

     

    What's more illogical -- Wanting to engage yourself with a lot of human players in an MMO, or wanting to isolate yourself away from all other players in an MMO while still wanting the best gear?

  • JasonJJasonJ New Port Richey, FLPosts: 395Member
    Originally posted by hMJem
    Originally posted by Muke

    RAIDS are the fatal disease of MMOs

    And yet no other MMOS have been as successful as WoW and Everquest were. Or for WoW's case, still is since 9 million subscribers at $15 a month.

     You mean like GW1 with its 6 million players, GW2 with its current 3 million. SWG was near EQ1s numbers, Eve as well.

    But its OK, I understand that you want to claim that Raids were a success because a game had it...but then again, didnt the game also have non-raid content which then negates that idea.

    So, why dont you tell me about a game that has NOTHING but raid content to prove raids are a reason for its success.

  • VembumeesVembumees WildStarPosts: 79Member
    Originally posted by Yukmarc
    Originally posted by Vembumees
    Originally posted by Yukmarc

    I have always thought that raids prevented people from playing the characters that they truly want to play. Instead, they create a character that other players want in the raids with them. So you end up with having your character spec'd exactly like the other guy instead of how YOU want it. I think it's a fantastic idea.

    However....

    Because of the RvR in this game, everyone will still be falling into that same trap.

    Hey mister. Let me tell you what raids are for. Raids are for players who have more time than 5 hours a day to spend on the game, up to 15 hours. Raids are activities for players who play the game for a long time. I'm sorry, maybe we are just different people, but after I hit max level in a week after the game release (doesn't matter if its 1 day or 1 month), what will I do with that spec of yours if I don't have anything to use it on? Elaborate to me somehow and explain to me, if you play an mmorpg 5 hours a day, sometimes in the weekends even 10 hours. A YEAR straight. Lets say about 3000-4000 hours. Just a random estimate. What would you do all that time? Kill goblins? Do an easy dungeon over and over and over again? Do same battlegrounds 1000 hours straight? Have you played a themepark mmorpg for more than, lets say, half a year? I've played some for 5000-10000+ hours and I wouldn't ever even played a quarter of it without any raid content.

    Hey Mister, first of all, let me say, that you sir, need to get out more. That being said, yes, I have played multiple MMO's for YEARS. However, they were UO and DOAC. I find your type of MMO kind of boring. So if you want to fill your years playing themeparks, go ahead and stick with the current crop of them. You will always have a WoW clone available to you, but it doesn't mean that EVERY MMO has to be like that.

    No I don't need to get out more, I get out enough and it's not interesting, sorry, I live to play games.
     That said, if you find "my type of mmo" boring, then why are you talking about ESO? It's a themepark game. It's not going to be anything like UO. It's going to be like WoW/Swtor/whatever game like that. Did you just discover about it today, have you even read what the game is?
     No I don't have any WoW clone available to me, all of them are shit and don't clone WoW at all. And WoW has only gone downhill to appeal to dumber and newer people for many years already, you know, those who want bad builds be viable and stuff.

Sign In or Register to comment.