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There are no raids... can you live with that?

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  • kaludytkkaludytk texarkana, TXPosts: 46Member

    i keep seeing "best gear will come from crafting" and things of the sort....

    has anyone even bothered to consider the possibility that the high end 4 man dungeons will provide top end crafting materials to make the best gear? seems like that would be enough to keep the raiders and gear mongers happy.

    truth be told, i raided the old 40 man raids in wow many years ago and was quite pleased with 10 man raids. These days, i can't bring myself to stomach any type of large scale raid. too much drama and they generally become chaotic until it's second nature to just enter and clear over and over again which in turn becomes a chore.

     

    to each their own i guess but I will probably give this game a shot. Oh and the guy who said "would you pay $15 a month to play skyrim?"....you're just dumb. that's not even a viable comparison what so ever.

  • rygard49rygard49 Huntington Beach, CAPosts: 975Member Common
    Originally posted by hMJem

    Posting again for the haters since for me it was the last post on a page.

     

     

    "How do you tell every player that they’re the saviour of the world in an MMO? It’s a sticky question that many MMOs face, and that few deal with especially well. Tom sat down with game director Matt Firor to find out how Zenimax approach the problem in The Elder Scrolls Online.

     

    “The way we do that in Elder Scrolls Online is there are parts of the game that you just do solo and you just do in a story instance. So the main backbone story of the game, which is your interaction with Molag Bal, one of the Daedric princes, you’re the hero in that story, so you experience that only yourself.

    It’s a familiar technique we’ve seen before in Star Wars: The Old Republic, LoTRO and many other MMOs that do their storytelling in carefully choreographed instances. "

    Bummer. I was hoping the SP story would be like TOR. They at least had the option of allowing groupmates into your instance to help you out, and so that they could experience your portion of the story as well.

    I guess this takes it one step closer to 'True ES'.

  • Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Waldoe
    Originally posted by hMJem
    Originally posted by Axxar
    Originally posted by Waldoe

    So what does Paul Sage mean  in the video below when he says  heroic raids?

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sv160bre2og#t=403s

    Maybe you need to learn to take random internet posters on their word rather than listening to the developers making the game?

    I've seen every developer video out the past couple weeks. 9/10 say "Heroic dungeons" Which are just dungeons scaled for level 50 but still giving less than crafting would give you.

     

    When so many people interview you in a day, you can accidentally slip. I can just as easily link 3 videos where 3 different people call it "Heroic dungeon" and not raid.

     

    Keep hating on me though, I already posted the proof where the main story is phased off by yourself but no one has even replied to that yet that was hating on me an hour or two ago.

    If that was true they would have edited out of the video plain and simple.

    Or it could just be talking about AvA raids. The OP link is quoting Matt Firor.

    For the record, I wasn't hating at all. Facial expression and body language etc. not traveling well over the web.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,474Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rygard49
    Originally posted by hMJem

    Posting again for the haters since for me it was the last post on a page.

     

     

    "How do you tell every player that they’re the saviour of the world in an MMO? It’s a sticky question that many MMOs face, and that few deal with especially well. Tom sat down with game director Matt Firor to find out how Zenimax approach the problem in The Elder Scrolls Online.

     

    “The way we do that in Elder Scrolls Online is there are parts of the game that you just do solo and you just do in a story instance. So the main backbone story of the game, which is your interaction with Molag Bal, one of the Daedric princes, you’re the hero in that story, so you experience that only yourself.

    It’s a familiar technique we’ve seen before in Star Wars: The Old Republic, LoTRO and many other MMOs that do their storytelling in carefully choreographed instances. "

    Bummer. I was hoping the SP story would be like TOR. They at least had the option of allowing groupmates into your instance to help you out, and so that they could experience your portion of the story as well.

    I guess this takes it one step closer to 'True ES'.

    I am not sure what is ture or not. We have videos that say no teaming with other factions and interview saying you can. We have a video saying there is raids and a interview thats says this is not ESO. I am starting to wish the ESO staff would put some of this to rest with official posts on the game web page. Because they are making things very confusing.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,618Member Uncommon

    No, no instanced raids but they have talked in several interviews about the "Adventure PVE zones" that will have solo, group and "raid-sized group" content.

    It's funny how "instance" is a dirty word around here... except when talking about raids apparently. What the adventure zones sound like to me is a retro PVE kind of place that will play like the early MMOs before the instanced raid formulas were invented.

    I'm looking forward to that.

  • rygard49rygard49 Huntington Beach, CAPosts: 975Member Common
    Originally posted by Iselin

    No, no instanced raids but they have talked in several interviews about the "Adventure PVE zones" that will have solo, group and "raid-sized group" content.

    It's funny how "instance" is a dirty word around here... except when talking about raids apparently. What the adventure zones sound like to me is a retro PVE kind of place that will play like the early MMOs before the instanced raid formulas were invented.

    I'm looking forward to that.

    Oh yeah. I forgot about Adventure Zones. Small group content with the option to summon or trigger large group bosses. Modified raids. I'm assuming it'll still use the mechanic that whoever helps kill it will get loot, which will likely really piss off the hardcore raiding elite.

  • LivnthedreamLivnthedream Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 555Member
    Originally posted by Iselin

    No, no instanced raids but they have talked in several interviews about the "Adventure PVE zones" that will have solo, group and "raid-sized group" content.

    It's funny how "instance" is a dirty word around here... except when talking about raids apparently. What the adventure zones sound like to me is a retro PVE kind of place that will play like the early MMOs before the instanced raid formulas were invented.

    I'm looking forward to that.

    Except those retro pve areas are garbage in pretty much every game. Supposedly Daoc was the last one to "do it right" but even that I honestly doubt.

  • rygard49rygard49 Huntington Beach, CAPosts: 975Member Common
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    I am not sure what is ture or not. We have videos that say no teaming with other factions and interview saying you can. We have a video saying there is raids and a interview thats says this is not ESO. I am starting to wish the ESO staff would put some of this to rest with official posts on the game web page. Because they are making things very confusing.

    Agree 100%. I've said the same thing in another thread, that they need to update their official website with official descriptions of the features they've shown off.

    Although, on the other hand, all this confusion is leading to a lot of forum activity, and therefore more exposure.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,618Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Livnthedream
    Originally posted by Iselin

    No, no instanced raids but they have talked in several interviews about the "Adventure PVE zones" that will have solo, group and "raid-sized group" content.

    It's funny how "instance" is a dirty word around here... except when talking about raids apparently. What the adventure zones sound like to me is a retro PVE kind of place that will play like the early MMOs before the instanced raid formulas were invented.

    I'm looking forward to that.

    Except those retro pve areas are garbage in pretty much every game. Supposedly Daoc was the last one to "do it right" but even that I honestly doubt.

    DAoC did it pre-WOW. I remember the first one in Albion... a dragon raid that would pop-up every few hours...word would go out...people would come running... the FPS dropped to 1 frame every 5 seconds... not sure how right it was image

    GW2 gave it a good shot too with several end-of-chain large group events in all zones. Some are fun, otherrs not so much. "Garbage" is a highly-biased subjective opinion... I would say "hit and miss."

    I'm curious to see how Zmax does it.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,474Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rygard49
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    I am not sure what is ture or not. We have videos that say no teaming with other factions and interview saying you can. We have a video saying there is raids and a interview thats says this is not ESO. I am starting to wish the ESO staff would put some of this to rest with official posts on the game web page. Because they are making things very confusing.

    Agree 100%. I've said the same thing in another thread, that they need to update their official website with official descriptions of the features they've shown off.

    Although, on the other hand, all this confusion is leading to a lot of forum activity, and therefore more exposure.

    Oooo we will find some hate threads to reply to no matter what. Get official word on the game page and that will fule another reason why this game sucks =-) 


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,474Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Livnthedream
    Originally posted by Iselin

    No, no instanced raids but they have talked in several interviews about the "Adventure PVE zones" that will have solo, group and "raid-sized group" content.

    It's funny how "instance" is a dirty word around here... except when talking about raids apparently. What the adventure zones sound like to me is a retro PVE kind of place that will play like the early MMOs before the instanced raid formulas were invented.

    I'm looking forward to that.

    Except those retro pve areas are garbage in pretty much every game. Supposedly Daoc was the last one to "do it right" but even that I honestly doubt.

    DAoC did it pre-WOW. I remember the first one in Albion... a dragon raid that would pop-up every few hours...word would go out...people would come running... the FPS dropped to 1 frame every 5 seconds... not sure how right it was image

    GW2 gave it a good shot too with several end-of-chain large group events in all zones. Some are fun, otherrs not so much. "Garbage" is a highly-biased subjective opinion... I would say "hit and miss."

    I'm curious to see how Zmax does it.

    If the events are at some set time guilds can plan to do together I would be happy with this if done right. Just nice to be able to get 10-40 people together and stand around an over sized corpse and say good times, anyone bring some beer?


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,618Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rygard49
    Originally posted by Iselin

    No, no instanced raids but they have talked in several interviews about the "Adventure PVE zones" that will have solo, group and "raid-sized group" content.

    It's funny how "instance" is a dirty word around here... except when talking about raids apparently. What the adventure zones sound like to me is a retro PVE kind of place that will play like the early MMOs before the instanced raid formulas were invented.

    I'm looking forward to that.

    Oh yeah. I forgot about Adventure Zones. Small group content with the option to summon or trigger large group bosses. Modified raids. I'm assuming it'll still use the mechanic that whoever helps kill it will get loot, which will likely really piss off the hardcore raiding elite.

    Well the sooner hardcore WOW raiders get used to the idea that this game won't duplicate that thing which they love in WOW, the better. This game isn't even prettending to be that kind of game.

    Repeat after me "It's all about the AvA, Jim."

     

    EDIT: a further thought about loot. Follow my bouncing logic ball...

    The best loot in WOW comes from raids

    Raids are the ultimate end-game activity in WOW

    A second set of best loot in WOW comes from PvP Scenarios

    ESO will only have one type of loot - no separate PvP stats

    The ultimate end-game activity in ESO is AvA (actually I hate that term, I still want to call it RvR... Ava sounds like the name of an old aunt)

    The best loot in ESO should come from AvA

  • LivnthedreamLivnthedream Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 555Member
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Livnthedream
    Originally posted by Iselin

    No, no instanced raids but they have talked in several interviews about the "Adventure PVE zones" that will have solo, group and "raid-sized group" content.

    It's funny how "instance" is a dirty word around here... except when talking about raids apparently. What the adventure zones sound like to me is a retro PVE kind of place that will play like the early MMOs before the instanced raid formulas were invented.

    I'm looking forward to that.

    Except those retro pve areas are garbage in pretty much every game. Supposedly Daoc was the last one to "do it right" but even that I honestly doubt.

    DAoC did it pre-WOW. I remember the first one in Albion... a dragon raid that would pop-up every few hours...word would go out...people would come running... the FPS dropped to 1 frame every 5 seconds... not sure how right it was image

    GW2 gave it a good shot too with several end-of-chain large group events in all zones. Some are fun, otherrs not so much. "Garbage" is a highly-biased subjective opinion... I would say "hit and miss."

    I'm curious to see how Zmax does it.

    Thats the thing, Zerg fests are not what that segment of the playerbase wants. Just like if you listen to pvpers they do not want battlegrounds. It amounts to much the same thing. Even raid Rifts in Rift sucked giant bags of dicks because they were nothing more than loot pinatas.

  • Tonin109Tonin109 ??, CAPosts: 201Member

    spend 3 hours and more for one piece of gear , no thanks

     

     

    image

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,618Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Livnthedream
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Livnthedream
    Originally posted by Iselin

    No, no instanced raids but they have talked in several interviews about the "Adventure PVE zones" that will have solo, group and "raid-sized group" content.

    It's funny how "instance" is a dirty word around here... except when talking about raids apparently. What the adventure zones sound like to me is a retro PVE kind of place that will play like the early MMOs before the instanced raid formulas were invented.

    I'm looking forward to that.

    Except those retro pve areas are garbage in pretty much every game. Supposedly Daoc was the last one to "do it right" but even that I honestly doubt.

    DAoC did it pre-WOW. I remember the first one in Albion... a dragon raid that would pop-up every few hours...word would go out...people would come running... the FPS dropped to 1 frame every 5 seconds... not sure how right it was image

    GW2 gave it a good shot too with several end-of-chain large group events in all zones. Some are fun, otherrs not so much. "Garbage" is a highly-biased subjective opinion... I would say "hit and miss."

    I'm curious to see how Zmax does it.

    Thats the thing, Zerg fests are not what that segment of the playerbase wants. Just like if you listen to pvpers they do not want battlegrounds. It amounts to much the same thing. Even raid Rifts in Rift sucked giant bags of dicks because they were nothing more than loot pinatas.

    Yeah Rift is another good example... I just used to go there, turn on my max Archon build... do not much.... people loved that I was there lol.

    If you look at it a certain way, everything is a loot pinata. Not sure if repeating ICC 72 times to get all the upgrades to max your stats wass any better though... actually I am sure: THAT sucks balls.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,474Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Livnthedream
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by Livnthedream
    Originally posted by Iselin

    No, no instanced raids but they have talked in several interviews about the "Adventure PVE zones" that will have solo, group and "raid-sized group" content.

    It's funny how "instance" is a dirty word around here... except when talking about raids apparently. What the adventure zones sound like to me is a retro PVE kind of place that will play like the early MMOs before the instanced raid formulas were invented.

    I'm looking forward to that.

    Except those retro pve areas are garbage in pretty much every game. Supposedly Daoc was the last one to "do it right" but even that I honestly doubt.

    DAoC did it pre-WOW. I remember the first one in Albion... a dragon raid that would pop-up every few hours...word would go out...people would come running... the FPS dropped to 1 frame every 5 seconds... not sure how right it was image

    GW2 gave it a good shot too with several end-of-chain large group events in all zones. Some are fun, otherrs not so much. "Garbage" is a highly-biased subjective opinion... I would say "hit and miss."

    I'm curious to see how Zmax does it.

    Thats the thing, Zerg fests are not what that segment of the playerbase wants. Just like if you listen to pvpers they do not want battlegrounds. It amounts to much the same thing. Even raid Rifts in Rift sucked giant bags of dicks because they were nothing more than loot pinatas.

    Ooo pinatas =-) Will they have candy? Really we dont know, they could have boss phases and all sorts of depth. I would like more info on how they plan on doing this. If its zurg and tank/spank it wont take long till no one is doing them.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • hMJemhMJem Marysville, WAPosts: 465Member

    I remember WOTLK heroics. You could fall asleep, try to pull the whole dungeon at once, fall asleep, and still end up not dying. You realize that was the biggest critisim of WOTLK right -- It isnt that "everyone has access to it" People that think "end-gamers" or "raiders" dont want people to do content is just completely false. They want it to atleast be challenging. See, playing Halo might be fun sometimes, but its not fun if youre going 50 kills 0 deaths every game because by nature we want a challenge -- And I struggle to believe dungeons in this game will be challenging if crafting is what gives the best game in the gear and if there is or is not a trinity tank-heal-dps.

     

    You can say what you want, but there is a reason WoW and Everquest fall under the "biggest big dogs of MMO history" non-arguably. The problem is, no game has been able to nail awesome story experience + awesome end game + awesome human interaction, because to nail the awesome story experience they protect you from other humans being around, hence SWTOR, and hence this game phasing you away from all other players when doing the main story.

     

    But of course then you have to ask -- How much does Zinemax even care? 30k subs for life might be a success for them. Even if this turned out to be the worst MMO of all time, everyone would buy the next Elder Scrolls single player game the night it came out. Bethesda has nothing to lose. Respect? They can give a shit if you respect them or not. They want your money. And as long as you still buy their game they dont care if you love or hate htem.

  • WraithoneWraithone Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 3,593Member Uncommon

    Damn straight I can live with out the raid nonsense.  That focus attracts those who rush to the end game (GO! GO! GO!), and then after rushing through what ever is available, start howling that there isn't any content... ^^

    I can also do without the total focus on dps meters and gear score, that all too many of the raider types end up pushing.

    Lets see if they stick to their no raid policy.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,618Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by hMJem

    I remember WOTLK heroics. You could fall asleep, try to pull the whole dungeon at once, fall asleep, and still end up not dying. You realize that was the biggest critisim of WOTLK right -- It isnt that "everyone has access to it" People that think "end-gamers" or "raiders" dont want people to do content is just completely false. They want it to atleast be challenging. See, playing Halo might be fun sometimes, but its not fun if youre going 50 kills 0 deaths every game because by nature we want a challenge -- And I struggle to believe dungeons in this game will be challenging if crafting is what gives the best game in the gear and if there is or is not a trinity tank-heal-dps.

     I think people are misunderstanding that.

    What they have said that has aroused my curiosity is that crafting will enhance the loot you find. It sounds like you will get great loot however you get it and then, you can make it better through crafting.

    That is a very different concept than having crafted stuff competing with dropped loot.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,474Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by hMJem

    I remember WOTLK heroics. You could fall asleep, try to pull the whole dungeon at once, fall asleep, and still end up not dying. You realize that was the biggest critisim of WOTLK right -- It isnt that "everyone has access to it" People that think "end-gamers" or "raiders" dont want people to do content is just completely false. They want it to atleast be challenging. See, playing Halo might be fun sometimes, but its not fun if youre going 50 kills 0 deaths every game because by nature we want a challenge -- And I struggle to believe dungeons in this game will be challenging if crafting is what gives the best game in the gear and if there is or is not a trinity tank-heal-dps.

     

    You can say what you want, but there is a reason WoW and Everquest fall under the "biggest big dogs of MMO history" non-arguably. The problem is, no game has been able to nail awesome story experience + awesome end game + awesome human interaction, because to nail the awesome story experience they protect you from other humans being around, hence SWTOR, and hence this game phasing you away from all other players when doing the main story.

     

    But of course then you have to ask -- How much does Zinemax even care? 30k subs for life might be a success for them. Even if this turned out to be the worst MMO of all time, everyone would buy the next Elder Scrolls single player game the night it came out. Bethesda has nothing to lose. Respect? They can give a shit if you respect them or not. They want your money. And as long as you still buy their game they dont care if you love or hate htem.

    I dont think any devs says "Ok lets make a @#$% game to gets some money and run". There has been some bad games over the past 6 years and I think devs are missing some things when it comes to making MMOs. As for ESO and the best gear coming from crafting, thats not the only place the best gear comes from. Crafting will have best in slot for some times but other slots will have best in slot from other content.

    The idea that raiding should give best in slot always IMO is fail and takes away the game from the other types of players. I would rather see a system where of say 12 equipment slots, best in slot for 3 of them come from raiding, 3 from crafting, 3 from PvP (not PvP gear just gear) and 3 from open world exploration/dungeon runs. And 2nd best in slot can be earned by doing any type of gaming. Just my two cents.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • BigHatLoganBigHatLogan Bellingham, WAPosts: 688Member
    No raids is great news!  I want an exploration and pvp based game, not a gear treadmill raiding game.

    Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now!
    image
    I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,474Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by hMJem

    I remember WOTLK heroics. You could fall asleep, try to pull the whole dungeon at once, fall asleep, and still end up not dying. You realize that was the biggest critisim of WOTLK right -- It isnt that "everyone has access to it" People that think "end-gamers" or "raiders" dont want people to do content is just completely false. They want it to atleast be challenging. See, playing Halo might be fun sometimes, but its not fun if youre going 50 kills 0 deaths every game because by nature we want a challenge -- And I struggle to believe dungeons in this game will be challenging if crafting is what gives the best game in the gear and if there is or is not a trinity tank-heal-dps.

     I think people are misunderstanding that.

    What they have said that has aroused my curiosity is that crafting will enhance the loot you find. It sounds like you will get great loot however you get it and then, you can make it better through crafting.

    That is a very different concept than having crafted stuff competing with dropped loot.

    The crafting video did say some slots would have best in slot for crafting. They didnt say that would be the case for all slots.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • severiusseverius sacramento, CAPosts: 1,514Member Common
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    So can you live with a MMO that has no raids? Or will that make ESO a pit stop for you before you run off to a new MMO that you and your guildies can really enjoy?

    Info comes from HERE!!!! : There are no raids, after all – "That's not Elder Scrolls," says Game Director Matt Firor – but there are four-man dungeons and three-faction open PvP with sieges in the beleaguered province of Cyrodiil.

    POSTED BY, Livnthedream: Link to more info on this topic HERE!!!!

    Personally I can care less about raids.

     I used to raid, A LOT.  Spent my time in top tiered raiding guilds.  Was the first person on Tichondrius PVP with Tranq Shot (in vanilla you actually had to earn it through a raid, not a freebie for every jackwagon huntard).  Then they put out an expansion pack.  Adding new raids and every piece of gear I had was suddenly worthless.

    Eff the game companies that think its a good idea.  Well, it is a good idea, because you have plenty of mules who want that carrot regardless of how big a pole you use which of course allows you to maximize your profits with the least amount of effort. For that matter Eff the raiders who enjoy the gear grind which allows these developers to slack off.

     I want more from my games, learning the pattern was cool the first couple times.... but having to do it weekly for everyone in the guild, plus yourself, over and over and over again to make sure that everyone gets geared?  F#ck that.  I remember a stretch back with Blackwing for 6 months we ran that piece of sh!t weekly and there was one item that NEVER dropped.  NEVER. Can't remember what it was but I do remember we got the parts for the idiot Thunderfury and still never got the huntard drop.

    Fact is I thought boss fights sucked in the 80's at the arcade, on the atari and it is a HUGE reason why I hated the Nintendo, every japanese p.o.s. game has the moron boss fight mechanic, from the very first to the most recent.  People talk so much about innovation, yet they constantly give the japanese a pass for using the same mechanic in every single game for 30 years,

    image

    image
  • scarykids2scarykids2 la puente, CAPosts: 74Member

    i give it a good 3-6 months before it crashes. 

     

    and i agree with just about everyone here, raiding is fun, to not have it is to burn your game before its out. people may fight against it and say they don't like it, but realize this. even though you are a hardcore pvp'er and whatnot, the reason why your game is up, is due to the large amount of pve'ers that are subbed for awesome fun mind numbing bang your head against the wall raid content, which i participate in lol, if your making a mmorpg for the pvp content, well then join the club because theres MW3 black ops 2, bf3. yes these aren't mmo's but they are pvp, so GLHF.

  • hMJemhMJem Marysville, WAPosts: 465Member
    Originally posted by BigHatLogan
    No raids is great news!  I want an exploration and pvp based game, not a gear treadmill raiding game.

    Can't explore until youre 50

     

    And even then its only you and your faction that get to explore if they even choose to do so -- Enjoy the invisible walls pre-50.

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