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There are no raids... can you live with that?

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  • stori11stori11 KlippanPosts: 26Member
    Originally posted by Celcius
    Originally posted by Eir_S
    Originally posted by hMJem
    Originally posted by stori11
    Adding raids to this perticular mmo would be a mistake on their part seeing how they might loose a few players by making it mroe of a co-op game than mmo, but they would loose alot more players and face a massive backlash from TES fans if they made it wow-like mmo. Not that there is anything wrong with wow, I played it myself and enjoyed it, I hope my point is easy to understand.

    You know this is an MMORPG right? And you cant do the main story co-op? You're phased by yourself when doing the main story questline.

     

    Do you know what MMO means?

    Really?  I didn't know that.  Wow, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard... make a TES multiplayer game, then make the main storyline single player.  Brilliant.  If that's true, I'm almost offended at how utterly fucking stupid it is.

    Don't believe everything in this thread. Unless this guy can prove that you can't do the main story co-op I would take that comment with a grain of salt. 

    Who said anything about a phased single player main story? First of all, thats bullshit, the devs never said anything like that, second , my point was that making this game more of a co-op game than wow-style mmo will work better for it. I do not mean co-op as in 4 players alone in the world, but co-op as in 4-5 players in a dungeon.

  • I know lots of people who hate raids but do them anyway simply because it's the way to get gear in other MMOs. Personally I don't mind the occasional raid, but they're not particularly important to me.

  • hMJemhMJem Marysville, WAPosts: 465Member

    "How do you tell every player that they’re the saviour of the world in an MMO? It’s a sticky question that many MMOs face, and that few deal with especially well. Tom sat down with game director Matt Firor to find out how Zenimax approach the problem in The Elder Scrolls Online.

     

    “The way we do that in Elder Scrolls Online is there are parts of the game that you just do solo and you just do in a story instance. So the main backbone story of the game, which is your interaction with Molag Bal, one of the Daedric princes, you’re the hero in that story, so you experience that only yourself.”

    It’s a familiar technique we’ve seen before in Star Wars: The Old Republic, LoTRO and many other MMOs that do their storytelling in carefully choreographed instances."

     

    Does that answer it yet? Or do I need to keep providing quotes from the developers themselves?

  • azarhalazarhal Somewhere, BCPosts: 760Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Rthuth434
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by doodphace

    Just want to point out, the only themepark since WoW to release with a sub, and keep enough subscribers to not warrent going FTP (Rift), has ample endgame/raids....me thinks there is some corralation with having a veriaty of endgame content, and keeping playiers...

     

    LOL this. Even if you dont want to raid its good for the game.

    haha RIFT:

     

    - 100 servers down to 8 servers in 10 months

    - outspoken anti cash shop/anti F2P exec hits the road(like he left EQ2 before that conversion)

    - added cash shop even though they were chest poundingly against such things, F2P in asia to "save sliding player numbers" even though they were firebreathing preachers of the true red blooded sub model

    -  moving on from RIFT with AA and several f2p/b2p titles coming up, fired bunch of guys and all indications point to SL being the only expansion for a looooong time.

    - never give specifics on how the game did, but slash the expansion's price after two weeks on market.

    Compared to all other themparks that released without raids, do you not think that its doing better from a subscription standpoint, even givin everything you pointed out??

    And what are the other themeparks that release without raids that did worst than Rift? I'm curious, because I only know GW2 doesn't have raids and that game is doing better than Rift going by the server numbers and Anet saying it have been growing in term of population recently.

  • HomituHomitu Hometown, HIPosts: 2,030Member
    Although I'm a huge GW2 fan, I do find myself lamenting the lack of challenging group content (in the form of raids of whatever.)  I'm definitely a fan of progressing through hard content with a group and the triumphant feeling of teamwork that comes with it.  Do I think every game needs it though?  No.  Each game needs to have its own identity. 
  • hMJemhMJem Marysville, WAPosts: 465Member

    Posting again for the haters since for me it was the last post on a page.

     

     

    "How do you tell every player that they’re the saviour of the world in an MMO? It’s a sticky question that many MMOs face, and that few deal with especially well. Tom sat down with game director Matt Firor to find out how Zenimax approach the problem in The Elder Scrolls Online.

     

    “The way we do that in Elder Scrolls Online is there are parts of the game that you just do solo and you just do in a story instance. So the main backbone story of the game, which is your interaction with Molag Bal, one of the Daedric princes, you’re the hero in that story, so you experience that only yourself.

    It’s a familiar technique we’ve seen before in Star Wars: The Old Republic, LoTRO and many other MMOs that do their storytelling in carefully choreographed instances. "

  • VembumeesVembumees WildStarPosts: 79Member

    I am really hyped about this game, but if it will indeed include no endgame raid content then I won't ever touch it and neither will nobody I know, because I won't be telling them about the game. And I am one such person out of probably a hundred thousand. Why? Because I am a hardcore gamer and I will be max level in probably less than a week and if it really has no endgame raiding then really I probably will be playing something else a month later and without any new content coming up, will never touch the game again.

    If it will have no endgame raiding or just a lack of endgame raid content, it will never see the success it aims for and will go the same path as some of these wowkiller games that had no raid content at release and didn't improve (or had so easy raid content that it wasn't even worth calling raid content).

    Age of Conan

    Swtor

    Rift (rift improved on this after half a year and eventually it became a great game and pretty much was the only rival for world of warcraft)

    Gw2

    TERA

    Aion

    hundreds of small titles

     

    There is no question. If they don't add raid content to the game this will be just a "buy at release, quit a month later and tell everybody that it sucks" game. Whatever, I guess good luck to bethesda, seems every big company needs to experience the loss of 70% subsribers themselves after realizing the way mmorpg's and people's mouths work. They could just learn from the past, but nope. Just lets keep doing the same mistake over and over and over again. Lol. Most of you just don't understand it or don't give a shit because you simply don't play a lot of games or just do not think about why games actually fail and lose subscribers. Most of you just want to play a game, without caring about anything else or anyone else, only your own personal fun.

     

    GL to ESO

  • hMJemhMJem Marysville, WAPosts: 465Member
    Originally posted by Vembumees

    I am really hyped about this game, but if it will indeed include no endgame raid content then I won't ever touch it and neither will nobody I know, because I won't be telling them about the game. And I am one such person out of probably a hundred thousand.

    If it will have no endgame raiding or just a lack of endgame raid content, it will never see the success it aims for and will go the same path as some of these wowkiller games that had no raid content at release and didn't improve (or had so easy raid content that it wasn't even worth calling raid content).

    Age of Conan

    Swtor

    Rift (rift improved on this after half a year and eventually it became a great game and pretty much was the only rival for world of warcraft)

    Gw2

    hundreds of small titles

     

    There is no question. If they don't add raid content to the game this will be just a "buy at release, quit a month later and tell everybody that it sucks" game. Whatever, I guess good luck to bethesda, seems every big company needs to experience the loss of 70% subsribers themselves after realizing the way mmorpg's and people's mouths work. They could just learn from the past, but nope. Just lets keep doing the same mistake over and over and over again. Lol. Most of you just don't understand it or don't give a shit because you simply don't play a lot of games or just do not think about why games actually fail and lose subscribers. Most of you just want to play a game, without caring about anything else or anyone else, only your own personal fun.

     

    GL to ESO

    That is why I am more excited for Everquest Next than I am for this. Although I will buy this, ESO might be the stop-gap game for me until Everquest Next.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,447Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Homitu
    Although I'm a huge GW2 fan, I do find myself lamenting the lack of challenging group content (in the form of raids of whatever.)  I'm definitely a fan of progressing through hard content with a group and the triumphant feeling of teamwork that comes with it.  Do I think every game needs it though?  No.  Each game needs to have its own identity. 

    Ya GW2 has been my MMO sinse it came out and I didnt know I would miss raids and the trinity lol 


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • WaldoeWaldoe allentown, PAPosts: 624Member

    So what does Paul Sage mean  in the video below when he says  heroic raids?

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sv160bre2og#t=403s

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,447Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by hMJem
    Originally posted by Vembumees

    I am really hyped about this game, but if it will indeed include no endgame raid content then I won't ever touch it and neither will nobody I know, because I won't be telling them about the game. And I am one such person out of probably a hundred thousand.

    If it will have no endgame raiding or just a lack of endgame raid content, it will never see the success it aims for and will go the same path as some of these wowkiller games that had no raid content at release and didn't improve (or had so easy raid content that it wasn't even worth calling raid content).

    Age of Conan

    Swtor

    Rift (rift improved on this after half a year and eventually it became a great game and pretty much was the only rival for world of warcraft)

    Gw2

    hundreds of small titles

     

    There is no question. If they don't add raid content to the game this will be just a "buy at release, quit a month later and tell everybody that it sucks" game. Whatever, I guess good luck to bethesda, seems every big company needs to experience the loss of 70% subsribers themselves after realizing the way mmorpg's and people's mouths work. They could just learn from the past, but nope. Just lets keep doing the same mistake over and over and over again. Lol. Most of you just don't understand it or don't give a shit because you simply don't play a lot of games or just do not think about why games actually fail and lose subscribers. Most of you just want to play a game, without caring about anything else or anyone else, only your own personal fun.

     

    GL to ESO

    That is why I am more excited for Everquest Next than I am for this. Although I will buy this, ESO might be the stop-gap game for me until Everquest Next.

    EQ1 was my first love, cant wait to see more info on it. Seems like the only info we got is rumors. It was EQ that invented raiding.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • Originally posted by Waldoe

    So what does Paul Sage mean  in the video below when he says  heroic raids?

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sv160bre2og#t=403s

    Maybe you need to learn to take random internet posters on their word rather than listening to the developers making the game?

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,447Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Axxar
    Originally posted by Waldoe

    So what does Paul Sage mean  in the video below when he says  heroic raids?

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sv160bre2og#t=403s

    Maybe you need to learn to take random internet posters on their word rather than listening to the developers making the game?

    That could be talking about AvA raids not PvE?


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • hMJemhMJem Marysville, WAPosts: 465Member
    Originally posted by Axxar
    Originally posted by Waldoe

    So what does Paul Sage mean  in the video below when he says  heroic raids?

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sv160bre2og#t=403s

    Maybe you need to learn to take random internet posters on their word rather than listening to the developers making the game?

    I've seen every developer video out the past couple weeks. 9/10 say "Heroic dungeons" Which are just dungeons scaled for level 50 but still giving less than crafting would give you.

     

    When so many people interview you in a day, you can accidentally slip. I can just as easily link 3 videos where 3 different people call it "Heroic dungeon" and not raid.

     

    Keep hating on me though, I already posted the proof where the main story is phased off by yourself but no one has even replied to that yet that was hating on me an hour or two ago.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon
    Progression raiding is one thing that I think holds back the themeparks of the genre.  If it has raids, then it's all about raiding.  All the other progression is secondary and second rate.  Either a game has raids and is about raiding or it doesn't have them at all.  I really hope they won't add progression raiding to the game.
  • hMJemhMJem Marysville, WAPosts: 465Member
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by hMJem
    Originally posted by Vembumees

    I am really hyped about this game, but if it will indeed include no endgame raid content then I won't ever touch it and neither will nobody I know, because I won't be telling them about the game. And I am one such person out of probably a hundred thousand.

    If it will have no endgame raiding or just a lack of endgame raid content, it will never see the success it aims for and will go the same path as some of these wowkiller games that had no raid content at release and didn't improve (or had so easy raid content that it wasn't even worth calling raid content).

    Age of Conan

    Swtor

    Rift (rift improved on this after half a year and eventually it became a great game and pretty much was the only rival for world of warcraft)

    Gw2

    hundreds of small titles

     

    There is no question. If they don't add raid content to the game this will be just a "buy at release, quit a month later and tell everybody that it sucks" game. Whatever, I guess good luck to bethesda, seems every big company needs to experience the loss of 70% subsribers themselves after realizing the way mmorpg's and people's mouths work. They could just learn from the past, but nope. Just lets keep doing the same mistake over and over and over again. Lol. Most of you just don't understand it or don't give a shit because you simply don't play a lot of games or just do not think about why games actually fail and lose subscribers. Most of you just want to play a game, without caring about anything else or anyone else, only your own personal fun.

     

    GL to ESO

    That is why I am more excited for Everquest Next than I am for this. Although I will buy this, ESO might be the stop-gap game for me until Everquest Next.

    EQ1 was my first love, cant wait to see more info on it. Seems like the only info we got is rumors. It was EQ that invented raiding.

    John Smedley said we should have a release version this year.

     

    He teased something like "There will be a version for everyone to play this year and I'm not talking about a beta"

     

    They're calling it "The largest sandbox MMO ever" and I am beyond excited. I have so many good memories from EQOA, and its suppoed to feel like EQOA/EQ1. I think they are using part of the console team because I believe the game is aimed for PC and PS4 like how EQOA was for ps2.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,447Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Progression raiding is one thing that I think holds back the themeparks of the genre.  If it has raids, then it's all about raiding.  All the other progression is secondary and second rate.  Either a game has raids and is about raiding or it doesn't have them at all.  I really hope they won't add progression raiding to the game.

    Why cant there be both?


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • WaldoeWaldoe allentown, PAPosts: 624Member
    Originally posted by hMJem
    Originally posted by Axxar
    Originally posted by Waldoe

    So what does Paul Sage mean  in the video below when he says  heroic raids?

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sv160bre2og#t=403s

    Maybe you need to learn to take random internet posters on their word rather than listening to the developers making the game?

    I've seen every developer video out the past couple weeks. 9/10 say "Heroic dungeons" Which are just dungeons scaled for level 50 but still giving less than crafting would give you.

     

    When so many people interview you in a day, you can accidentally slip. I can just as easily link 3 videos where 3 different people call it "Heroic dungeon" and not raid.

     

    Keep hating on me though, I already posted the proof where the main story is phased off by yourself but no one has even replied to that yet that was hating on me an hour or two ago.

    If that was true they would have edited out of the video plain and simple.

  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by Vembumees

    I am really hyped about this game, but if it will indeed include no endgame raid content then I won't ever touch it and neither will nobody I know, because I won't be telling them about the game. And I am one such person out of probably a hundred thousand. Why? Because I am a hardcore gamer and I will be max level in probably less than a week and if it really has no endgame raiding then really I probably will be playing something else a month later and without any new content coming up, will never touch the game again.

    If it will have no endgame raiding or just a lack of endgame raid content, it will never see the success it aims for and will go the same path as some of these wowkiller games that had no raid content at release and didn't improve (or had so easy raid content that it wasn't even worth calling raid content).

    Age of Conan

    Swtor

    Rift (rift improved on this after half a year and eventually it became a great game and pretty much was the only rival for world of warcraft)

    Gw2

    TERA

    Aion

    hundreds of small titles

     

    There is no question. If they don't add raid content to the game this will be just a "buy at release, quit a month later and tell everybody that it sucks" game. Whatever, I guess good luck to bethesda, seems every big company needs to experience the loss of 70% subsribers themselves after realizing the way mmorpg's and people's mouths work. They could just learn from the past, but nope. Just lets keep doing the same mistake over and over and over again. Lol. Most of you just don't understand it or don't give a shit because you simply don't play a lot of games or just do not think about why games actually fail and lose subscribers. Most of you just want to play a game, without caring about anything else or anyone else, only your own personal fun.

     

    GL to ESO

    This ^

  • hMJemhMJem Marysville, WAPosts: 465Member

    You know these developer videos arent Zenimax uploaded, right? These are review sites/etc.

     

    It's an honest slip up. That said, watch more than 1 video. I am sure others can agree with what I'm saying, 9/10 videos they say Heroic Dungeon not Heroic Raid. 

  • mari3kmari3k erger, AKPosts: 135Member

    Of course there will be raids or something similar for the PvE crowd do to at endgame. 

    This vote is senceless...

    Step in the arena and break the wall down

  • VembumeesVembumees WildStarPosts: 79Member
    Originally posted by Waldoe
    Originally posted by hMJem
    Originally posted by Axxar
    Originally posted by Waldoe

    So what does Paul Sage mean  in the video below when he says  heroic raids?

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sv160bre2og#t=403s

    Maybe you need to learn to take random internet posters on their word rather than listening to the developers making the game?

    I've seen every developer video out the past couple weeks. 9/10 say "Heroic dungeons" Which are just dungeons scaled for level 50 but still giving less than crafting would give you.

     

    When so many people interview you in a day, you can accidentally slip. I can just as easily link 3 videos where 3 different people call it "Heroic dungeon" and not raid.

     

    Keep hating on me though, I already posted the proof where the main story is phased off by yourself but no one has even replied to that yet that was hating on me an hour or two ago.

    If that was true they would have edited out of the video plain and simple.

    They probably just slipped it in to see how much protest they get from the users to decide whether to add raiding or not.

    To me it sounds just absurd not to add raid content, but it wouldn't be that surprising honestly and wouldn't be the first game like that.

  • TsumoroTsumoro EozeaPosts: 408Member Uncommon

    I think I am going to be giving ESO a bit of a miss on this one. I like the normal games, mainly because of the modding community which breathes life into the game after completion. I am also an avid MMO fan...

    However I like to work as a large group of people and form relationships and have adventures, which for the end game does involve raiding. Although this is not everything, I like having a 'villain' with a team based effort in taking down that villain and feeling triumphant. I also don't mind dabbling in PvP but for a focus point for end game? Not my cup of tea sadly. 

    I think I shall invest my time in Neverwinter MMO, being an avid DnD player and in my past dabble in DMing I can roleplay and get my jollies of the content then later setting up modules and campaigns for others to enjoy. 

     

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,447Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Waldoe
    Originally posted by hMJem
    Originally posted by Axxar
    Originally posted by Waldoe

    So what does Paul Sage mean  in the video below when he says  heroic raids?

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sv160bre2og#t=403s

    Maybe you need to learn to take random internet posters on their word rather than listening to the developers making the game?

    I've seen every developer video out the past couple weeks. 9/10 say "Heroic dungeons" Which are just dungeons scaled for level 50 but still giving less than crafting would give you.

     

    When so many people interview you in a day, you can accidentally slip. I can just as easily link 3 videos where 3 different people call it "Heroic dungeon" and not raid.

     

    Keep hating on me though, I already posted the proof where the main story is phased off by yourself but no one has even replied to that yet that was hating on me an hour or two ago.

    If that was true they would have edited out of the video plain and simple.

    Or it could just be talking about AvA raids. The OP link is quoting Matt Firor.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,923Member Uncommon

    I voted no BUT considering how games like MoP trivilize it Its not a for sure no.

    To me, its nice having activities to bring a guild together to do stuff.  Raids are often just that and it really brings a strong union with the guild. There are alternatives but when it came to MMos before, Raids were often the biggest form of unity that could be pushed on the players to partake in together. Other activities could work, but more often then not the typical mindset is "if its not making my character stronger, then its not worth it" which sadly has taken off quite a bit  as people simply use it as a means to improve their characters with no desire to actually 'get better' wanting people to feed them through it.

     

    That being said, if they make it so you have difficult content with less people it could be fine as well. It suffers on the guild side of things but I'd have no problem with going with less people to accomplish tasks. In WoW: Wotlk it wasn't the 25 man OS3D that was the biggest challenge, but the OS3D 10 man version that provided the most difficulty, having less room for error and really pushing on members to go beyond in such they might have to provide heals and do damage or change up their roles for the encounter as it went on.

     

    I marked it down as no, but heck, if they provide content thats actually challenge and difficult and can be rewarding for 4-5 people I'd be more then happy with that. 

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