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There are no raids... can you live with that?

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  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,463Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by doodphace

    Just want to point out, the only themepark since WoW to release with a sub, and keep enough subscribers to not warrent going FTP (Rift), has ample endgame/raids....me thinks there is some corralation with having a veriaty of endgame content, and keeping playiers...

     

    LOL this. Even if you dont want to raid its good for the game.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,838Member Uncommon

    personally, yes i am fine with it since i don't raid anymore and haven't pretty much since EQ and vanilla wow.

    i play games to relax and have fun, raiding feels more like a part time job with some dork yelling more than my IRL boss does.

    honestly, i could tolerate raiding until guilds stated using VOIP, now its more annoying than anything for me.

  • KareliaKarelia HeraklionPosts: 668Member

    i like to try what every mmo has to offer. i want and i try every new additon to genre. either its world events, rifts, invasions, owpvp, sieges or whatever. i played and continue to play many mmo's, enjoying some of them, at least for a time. short or long.

    but what i miss more are raids. large scale (25+) sophisticated dungeons, with great bosses, difficult tactics and legendary items.

    i like to tank or heal. mainly healer to most mmo's. i can play a game without raids, but not for long. i cant addict to a game that has no raids. i dont say that a game without raids cant be as good, or even better, than one with but i just cant stick to it.

    maybe i m not able to see the big picture behind a game without raids, but i love them. sometimes raiding makes me really feel EPIC :)

  • Balkin31Balkin31 Citrus Heights, CAPosts: 224Member Uncommon
    Yup I never raid anyways....
  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,232Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by hMJem

    So there is PvP that gives no rewards, and no World PvP. Sorry, Cyrodill isnt World PvP. 

     

    Youre gonna play this game for 4 months just because of Cyrodill with no rewards? I highly doubt that. Anyone who wants to finish all 3 factions will have done so within a couple months, especially if this game is $15 a month subscription like it probably will be.

     

    No carrot on a stick = no longevity. You wouldnt pay $15 a month to play Skyrim and dont act like you would.

    "Capture an Elder Scroll, protect it, and return it to your alliance’s stronghold to wield its power and gain bonuses."

     

    "In The Elder Scrolls Online, the highest-ranking player of an alliance is crowned Emperor when their alliance takes control of the Imperial City. You aren’t just fighting for your alliance; you’re fighting for the opportunity to be crowned Emperor, yourself.

    Emperors gain special abilities that increase their prowess on the battlefield. They are true leaders of their alliance, and a force to be reckoned with.

    An Emperor’s hold on power can be tenuous.  Can your alliance protect all of the strongholds necessary to maintain your dominance? How long will your reign as Emperor last before an ambitious foe cuts you down?"

     

     

    not having "phat epix" does not mean there is no reward :)

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,838Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    30% of 135'000'000 bucks a month is a lot of cheese lol. Who would run a business and chuck out even 20% of their possible profits?

    that is assuming, of course, that every last person that enjoys raiding declines to buy TESO because it doesn't have raiding.

    how many people that do raid, raid because it offers the best loot in the game and not because they necessarily enjoy it?

    i would bet a whole heck of a lot of raiders fall under that category.

  • CelciusCelcius Posts: 1,001Member Uncommon

    I won't believe that you can't play the main story with other players unless a developer outright says "You can't play the story with other players" 

    I don't really see this mattering anyways, the personal story type stuff in other games can be played with other players but most people play it solo. You will do this personal story type stuff once on your character and forget about it until an expansion. Everyone knows that a bulk of your playtime will be focused around end game, after you have completed the main story. I think SWTOR already proved that a solo oriented story is a waste of time without a good end game. Most people playing that game enjoyed that aspect of the game more then the end game because the content at end game was poorly tested, minimal, and did not come fast enough. 

    For the time being atleast it seems like they are atleast aiming towards end game playing a pretty important role. The max level adventure zone concept sounds neat and the massive RvR style pvp sound cool. Honestly you can't tell me that with that style of big epic PvP that it is "not an mmo". 

  • rygard49rygard49 Huntington Beach, CAPosts: 975Member
    Originally posted by Celcius
    I won't believe that you can't play the main story with other players unless a developer outright says "You can't play the story with other players" 

    I'm inclined to agree with this. Even TOR, the ultimate in single player gaming wrapped in an MMO package, made it possible to group through your singleplayer storyline.

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,119Member Uncommon
    Abso-frakking-lutely!

    image
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,463Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rygard49
    Originally posted by Celcius
    I won't believe that you can't play the main story with other players unless a developer outright says "You can't play the story with other players" 

    I'm inclined to agree with this. Even TOR, the ultimate in single player gaming wrapped in an MMO package, made it possible to group through your singleplayer storyline.

    Ya my wife and I play together side by side. We maybe skipping the main story if we cant play together. Hope there is lots of story we can do together.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,119Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by doodphace

    Just want to point out, the only themepark since WoW to release with a sub, and keep enough subscribers to not warrent going FTP (Rift), has ample endgame/raids....me thinks there is some corralation with having a veriaty of endgame content, and keeping playiers...

     

    LOL this. Even if you dont want to raid its good for the game.

    The trick is getting developers to do it without alienating the rest of the player base by placing end game progression solely through raiding.  What's the point of even having other end game content if the only post-level progression takes place in raids?  We all love to see new content, but playing an RPG means that the progression of your Avatar is a paramount aspect required for leveling and post-leveling content.

    image
  • ArthasmArthasm LoznicaPosts: 754Member Uncommon
    Will not touch this game if there isn't raid or some proper challenge for large groups of players. Not like Wow raids, but some real challenge would be fine and surely, not like GW2 outdoor "raids". For those who don't like raiding, just make other options for character progression and everyone will be happy. Why not options, example, if you want specific gear or weapon, give players 2-3 options - for raiders, go kill some uberpowered boss, for non-raiders - go kill 1000 rats, collect flowers, spend milions gold, etc...
  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by doodphace

    Just want to point out, the only themepark since WoW to release with a sub, and keep enough subscribers to not warrent going FTP (Rift), has ample endgame/raids....me thinks there is some corralation with having a veriaty of endgame content, and keeping playiers...

     

    LOL this. Even if you dont want to raid its good for the game.

    The trick is getting developers to do it without alienating the rest of the player base by placing end game progression solely through raiding.  What's the point of even having other end game content if the only post-level progression takes place in raids?  We all love to see new content, but playing an RPG means that the progression of your Avatar is a paramount aspect required for leveling and post-leveling content.

    They keep their existing planned endgame, but add a different tier of progression for raids, and make both hardcore and accssaible versions of them. It has worked wonders for Rift and WoW. Unless you are a PVP centric MMO like doac or WAR, it make no sense to not have tiered raid progression, esp if you want to keep many players.

  • Rthuth434Rthuth434 uniondale, NYPosts: 346Member
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by doodphace

    Just want to point out, the only themepark since WoW to release with a sub, and keep enough subscribers to not warrent going FTP (Rift), has ample endgame/raids....me thinks there is some corralation with having a veriaty of endgame content, and keeping playiers...

     

    LOL this. Even if you dont want to raid its good for the game.

    haha RIFT:

     

    - 100 servers down to 8 servers in 10 months

    - outspoken anti cash shop/anti F2P exec hits the road(like he left EQ2 before that conversion)

    - added cash shop even though they were chest poundingly against such things, F2P in asia to "save sliding player numbers" even though they were firebreathing preachers of the true red blooded sub model

    -  moving on from RIFT with AA and several f2p/b2p titles coming up, fired bunch of guys and all indications point to SL being the only expansion for a looooong time.

    - never give specifics on how the game did, but slash the expansion's price after two weeks on market.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,463Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by doodphace

    Just want to point out, the only themepark since WoW to release with a sub, and keep enough subscribers to not warrent going FTP (Rift), has ample endgame/raids....me thinks there is some corralation with having a veriaty of endgame content, and keeping playiers...

     

    LOL this. Even if you dont want to raid its good for the game.

    The trick is getting developers to do it without alienating the rest of the player base by placing end game progression solely through raiding.  What's the point of even having other end game content if the only post-level progression takes place in raids?  We all love to see new content, but playing an RPG means that the progression of your Avatar is a paramount aspect required for leveling and post-leveling content.

    Ya last thing I want is a treadmill. Gear should be equal.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • SaerainSaerain Barrington, RIPosts: 944Member Uncommon

    Raiding represents a massive part of what I've hated about the last decade or so of MMOs. I'm excited by their absence.

    I don't begrudge people who love raiding. I understand what the appeal is, I just don't share it.

    Favorites: EVE, VG, LotRO | Playing: None | Anticipating: SC, ED, TD, EQN, CU
  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by Rthuth434
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by doodphace

    Just want to point out, the only themepark since WoW to release with a sub, and keep enough subscribers to not warrent going FTP (Rift), has ample endgame/raids....me thinks there is some corralation with having a veriaty of endgame content, and keeping playiers...

     

    LOL this. Even if you dont want to raid its good for the game.

    haha RIFT:

     

    - 100 servers down to 8 servers in 10 months

    - outspoken anti cash shop/anti F2P exec hits the road(like he left EQ2 before that conversion)

    - added cash shop even though they were chest poundingly against such things, F2P in asia to "save sliding player numbers" even though they were firebreathing preachers of the true red blooded sub model

    -  moving on from RIFT with AA and several f2p/b2p titles coming up, fired bunch of guys and all indications point to SL being the only expansion for a looooong time.

    - never give specifics on how the game did, but slash the expansion's price after two weeks on market.

    Compared to all other themparks that released without raids, do you not think that its doing better from a subscription standpoint, even givin everything you pointed out??

  • SiderasSideras HelsingborgPosts: 231Member
    I've never played a single raid in my life that I truly enjoyed so yes I can live without it. I'd prefer not having to find a massive band of  angry social misfits in order to enjoy the game thankyouverymuch.
  • FearumFearum Cinnaminson, NJPosts: 1,166Member Uncommon
    I'm mostly interested in the AvA and crafting. I chose Yes, i can live without it because raiding really holds nothing interesting for me, I know there is a small percentage of mmo players who live to do them, but not me.
  • monochrome19monochrome19 Chicago, ILPosts: 454Member Uncommon

    Never liked or saw the point of raids. Never have, never will.

    I think not having raids is the best thing any mmo can do.

    Whenever I have attempted to raid I've ALWAYS fallen asleep at my computer.

  • evilizedevilized columbus, OHPosts: 564Member Uncommon

    put in a darkness falls dungeon or two.

     

    /game

    /thread

    /life

    /internets

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Incomplete poll. I can live without raids, granted that it has some other fun and interesting end-game activity such as meaningful conquest based PvP or soft level cap. But I cant live with a game that has barely any proper end-game (such as GW 2).
  • danwest58danwest58 Cincinnati, OHPosts: 990Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rthuth434
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by doodphace

    Just want to point out, the only themepark since WoW to release with a sub, and keep enough subscribers to not warrent going FTP (Rift), has ample endgame/raids....me thinks there is some corralation with having a veriaty of endgame content, and keeping playiers...

     

    LOL this. Even if you dont want to raid its good for the game.

    haha RIFT:

     

    - 100 servers down to 8 servers in 10 months

    - outspoken anti cash shop/anti F2P exec hits the road(like he left EQ2 before that conversion)

    - added cash shop even though they were chest poundingly against such things, F2P in asia to "save sliding player numbers" even though they were firebreathing preachers of the true red blooded sub model

    -  moving on from RIFT with AA and several f2p/b2p titles coming up, fired bunch of guys and all indications point to SL being the only expansion for a looooong time.

    - never give specifics on how the game did, but slash the expansion's price after two weeks on market.

     

    SL had issues because the work required just so one can raid.  People would grind quest to get gear to run normal instances.  Then grind normal instances to do expert instances.  Then grind Experts to get into raids.  I played SL, ran a guild full of casual players all of which raided in WOW and Rift before.  2 out of the 30 of us wanted to do the tredmill.

     

    I went back to SWTOR and I love the operations here because they are small and take little effort to get going.  So you can say all the negative things you want about Raiding.  Its not the problem.  The problem is the tredmill one has to get on to get into raid or to do for raiding.  Yes they need a carrot on the stick and should progress their toons.  But Like WoW and Rift, the amount of time spent just to raid is too great.  If raiding was looked at like PVP as a nother avenue of progression then it wouldn't be a big deal.

    image

  • SagornSagorn Orlando, FLPosts: 19Member Common

    I used to raid.. a lot, but I don't raid at all now. It's not about the time or the effort but dealing with the attitudes and drama that comes with 99% of every single guild out there. Sure, you can do some sort of random groupage, but you are going to run into the same a-holes time and time again.

     

    As a pve player, the problem isn't having raids for end-game, it's having *something* for end game. There is a lot more that you can do that doesn't require raiding, or grouping at all. I don't understand why someone hasn't figured out that there are easier things to add to give players something to do at max level than raids. Add a very deep alternate ability system (a la EQ) to give players the ability to get *better* as they play more. Add a crafting system that actually takes some sort of effort to get good at and max out. Add a housing system that actually gives people something to work on, such as upgrading the actual starter hut to a castle over time, as well as decorating. While this might not interst a lot of people, it sure gives you something more interesting to do than a gear grind every few months when a patch comes out with some new raid/dungeon.

     

    --Sagorn

  • danwest58danwest58 Cincinnati, OHPosts: 990Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sagorn

    I used to raid.. a lot, but I don't raid at all now. It's not about the time or the effort but dealing with the attitudes and drama that comes with 99% of every single guild out there. Sure, you can do some sort of random groupage, but you are going to run into the same a-holes time and time again.

     

    As a pve player, the problem isn't having raids for end-game, it's having *something* for end game. There is a lot more that you can do that doesn't require raiding, or grouping at all. I don't understand why someone hasn't figured out that there are easier things to add to give players something to do at max level than raids. Add a very deep alternate ability system (a la EQ) to give players the ability to get *better* as they play more. Add a crafting system that actually takes some sort of effort to get good at and max out. Add a housing system that actually gives people something to work on, such as upgrading the actual starter hut to a castle over time, as well as decorating. While this might not interst a lot of people, it sure gives you something more interesting to do than a gear grind every few months when a patch comes out with some new raid/dungeon.

     

    --Sagorn

     

    Sargorn,

    Honestly If you think 99% of raiding guilds have drama thats because you joined mostly bad guilds or you equate having a pug person who does not want to listen to loot rules and wants his 6th piece of gear from that raid over someone who has got nothing.   Yes Larger raids 20+ will have more drama than they are worth.  If you get a good tigh nit group of 8 to 11 raiders you are very unlikely to see any drama.  Why?  Simple guilds end up much like my raiding guild in SWTOR we had 11 people all on the same page we rotated and almost never needed ro recruit for our group.  No one bitched at one another everyone enjoyed yacking at one another the only BS we had was on SOA hard mode because before he was fixed everytime he got down to 15% health he despawned.  Everytime without fail.  Thats the only DRAMA we had because we hated Bioware for a buggy boss.  Not because Loot, or who pissed off who or inter personal stuff.  Small tigh nit groups rarely have drama and need to massively recruit.

     

    As for you saying that its wrong for MMOs to force group content.  I will agree to disagree with you.  Take UO for example, if you don't instance out areas where you have strong Monsters people want to kill they will get flooded and people will hate having to fight for 1 mob.  Take the Shadow Wyrm room for example.  I with 2 other friends ran that place, however if others came in they get pissed because we owned the spawn.  Sometimes you would see a dozen people trying to control it however us 3 ran the place.  So you recate instances, an instance will take resources on a phsyical server and a database.  So you make instances GROUP content.  Also the point of an MMO is to be social, make friends and play with them.  They are not Lobby Games, and only became Lobby games because there are now too many MMOs and few people willing to play them.   Now I will say I would like a game where SMALL group of friends and work together and progress.  I would love to run a Shadow wyrm spawn again with a few friends and have a good time.  Do we need 40 man raids, no.  Can we do with 8 man raids.  Yea much better and much tigher nit communities will be made from that.

     

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