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There are no raids... can you live with that?

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  • evilizedevilized columbus, OHPosts: 564Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by hMJem
    Originally posted by evilized
    Originally posted by hMJem
    Originally posted by evilized

    i see the wow mouthbreathers are out in full force. don't like the fact there aren't any raids? dont play the game. i'll be playing for the rvr and the ESO-esque combat system along with everything else the game has to offer including having no raid content. 

     

    MMO's started without raids. the most fun i have ever had in MMO's has been in games with no raid system. accessable structured raids were new and interesting back in 2004 but they have been done to death and really need to go away so they can be replaced by something more dynamic and fun. darkness falls zone plz?

    I doubt Elder Scrolls fans will stay subscribed to this game for a few months just based off the single player content alone. This is an MMORPG, not a Skyrim DLC.

     

    the fact that people can't comprehend an MMO without raid content makes me want to smash my head into a wall repeatedly. not having raids DOES NOT MEAN THERE IS NO MULTIPLAYER CONTENT. there is pvp, there is crafting and playing the economy, there are guilds and alliances, there are dungeon crawls and a whole heck of a lot more i don't care to add because it would take all day to type. 

     

    they are building this game as a mix between ES and daoc, both of which have given myself and many other people years of entertainment. neither game included a structured raid system. there was multi-group content in daoc but it was non-linear and for the most part optional (until ToA, which drove out a good portion of the playerbase because it required people to raid).

    So there is PvP that gives no rewards, and no World PvP. Sorry, Cyrodill isnt World PvP. 

     

    Youre gonna play this game for 4 months just because of Cyrodill with no rewards? I highly doubt that. Anyone who wants to finish all 3 factions will have done so within a couple months, especially if this game is $15 a month subscription like it probably will be.

     

    No carrot on a stick = no longevity. You wouldnt pay $15 a month to play Skyrim and dont act like you would.

     

    [mod edit]

     

    cryodil is essentially the same thing as frontiers in daoc. these areas are huge and are most certainly open world pvp. cryodil isn't just for pvp either, there are mobs, quests, leveling areas, towns, camps and a whole heck of a lot of other things to interact with. 

     

    and as far as pvp giving no rewards? how about realm/alliance points as an alternate form of character progression. new skills and abilities sound pretty rewarding to me. 

  • CelciusCelcius Franklin, TNPosts: 1,000Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by hMJem
    Originally posted by Celcius

    I like how people claim they are missing a "large chunk" of people who play MMOs without raiding. This is simply not true at all. A ton of people who play MMOs don't even hit max level, let alone raid. Raiding has been the least popular part of every MMO since it's inception. Most people don't have the kind of time required for it.

    GW2 has over 3 million people playing it who knew there would not be raids available. This is based on US/EU alone so consider that GW2's population is probably as much as/ more then WoW's NA population and WoW has probably the highest percentage of raiders of any MMO. I would say that is a pretty good indication that people generally don't play MMOS for raids.

    Would you play Skyrim if you had to pay $15 a month to do so?

     

    I think honestly a majority would say no, I dont think it's worth to have to buy Skyrim and pay $15 a month to do so. Stop acting like you just want Skyrim. This game will more likely than not be pay to play at the standard $15 a month model. They have to make this an MMORPG, not "Elder Scrolls with a friend"

    If they had DLC every 2-3 months; absolutely. Who said this game would be sub based? 

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member
    Originally posted by hMJem
    Originally posted by stori11
    Adding raids to this perticular mmo would be a mistake on their part seeing how they might loose a few players by making it mroe of a co-op game than mmo, but they would loose alot more players and face a massive backlash from TES fans if they made it wow-like mmo. Not that there is anything wrong with wow, I played it myself and enjoyed it, I hope my point is easy to understand.

    You know this is an MMORPG right? And you cant do the main story co-op? You're phased by yourself when doing the main story questline.

     

    Do you know what MMO means?

    Really?  I didn't know that.  Wow, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard... make a TES multiplayer game, then make the main storyline single player.  Brilliant.  If that's true, I'm almost offended at how utterly fucking stupid it is.

  • CelciusCelcius Franklin, TNPosts: 1,000Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Eir_S
    Originally posted by hMJem
    Originally posted by stori11
    Adding raids to this perticular mmo would be a mistake on their part seeing how they might loose a few players by making it mroe of a co-op game than mmo, but they would loose alot more players and face a massive backlash from TES fans if they made it wow-like mmo. Not that there is anything wrong with wow, I played it myself and enjoyed it, I hope my point is easy to understand.

    You know this is an MMORPG right? And you cant do the main story co-op? You're phased by yourself when doing the main story questline.

     

    Do you know what MMO means?

    Really?  I didn't know that.  Wow, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard... make a TES multiplayer game, then make the main storyline single player.  Brilliant.  If that's true, I'm almost offended at how utterly fucking stupid it is.

    Don't believe everything in this thread. Unless this guy can prove that you can't do the main story co-op I would take that comment with a grain of salt. 

  • QSatuQSatu WarsawPosts: 1,735Member Uncommon
    I'm happy about it. Usually raids become mandatory content and I would say there are probably more people who don't do raiding than those who do. Raids require a lot of coordination so it's usually obvious people will want the best rewards to come from them and thus they are forced on a whole community. This is the main reason why i am happy there are no raids in GW2 and now here. I also disagree with the notion that just b/c most mmos for the past 15 years had raids then it means every mmo till the end of time has to have raids also. This kind of thinking led to contant copying and recreating the same game over and over again.
  • TibbzTibbz Houston, TXPosts: 619Member
    There will be raids, just against other players.  :)

    image
  • hMJemhMJem Marysville, WAPosts: 465Member
    Originally posted by Eir_S
    Originally posted by hMJem
    Originally posted by stori11
    Adding raids to this perticular mmo would be a mistake on their part seeing how they might loose a few players by making it mroe of a co-op game than mmo, but they would loose alot more players and face a massive backlash from TES fans if they made it wow-like mmo. Not that there is anything wrong with wow, I played it myself and enjoyed it, I hope my point is easy to understand.

    You know this is an MMORPG right? And you cant do the main story co-op? You're phased by yourself when doing the main story questline.

     

    Do you know what MMO means?

    Really?  I didn't know that.  Wow, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard... make a TES multiplayer game, then make the main storyline single player.  Brilliant.  If that's true, I'm almost offended at how utterly fucking stupid it is.

    Of course it's true. The story is about YOUR soul. I forget which interview said it, but it is definitely confirmed that doing the main story-line you're phased off by yourself. For all we know the main story could only take a few hours like Skyrim's if you want it to. 

  • hMJemhMJem Marysville, WAPosts: 465Member
    Originally posted by QSatu
    I'm happy about it. Usually raids become mandatory content and I would say there are probably more people who don't do raiding than those who do. Raids require a lot of coordination so it's usually obvious people will want the best rewards to come from them and thus they are forced on a whole community. This is the main reason why i am happy there are no raids in GW2 and now here. I also disagree with the notion that just b/c most mmos for the past 15 years had raids then it means every mmo till the end of time has to have raids also. This kind of thinking led to contant copying and recreating the same game over and over again.

    Coincidence that every game since WoW/Everquest that doesnt focus on end-game ends up dropping off? I'm sorry but comparing GW2/SWTOR/any other MMORPG to the success WoW and Everquest had is a complete and utter joke. Everquest and WoW are the Kings of MMO success, and I am sure their business model and in-game decisions are why.

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member
    Originally posted by Celcius
    Originally posted by Eir_S
    Originally posted by hMJem
    Originally posted by stori11
    Adding raids to this perticular mmo would be a mistake on their part seeing how they might loose a few players by making it mroe of a co-op game than mmo, but they would loose alot more players and face a massive backlash from TES fans if they made it wow-like mmo. Not that there is anything wrong with wow, I played it myself and enjoyed it, I hope my point is easy to understand.

    You know this is an MMORPG right? And you cant do the main story co-op? You're phased by yourself when doing the main story questline.

     

    Do you know what MMO means?

    Really?  I didn't know that.  Wow, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard... make a TES multiplayer game, then make the main storyline single player.  Brilliant.  If that's true, I'm almost offended at how utterly fucking stupid it is.

    Don't believe everything in this thread. Unless this guy can prove that you can't do the main story co-op I would take that comment with a grain of salt. 

    Maybe, and maybe it will be enjoyable regardless... but the main reason I only logged a little over a hundred hours in Skyrim, yet I'm nearing 700 in GW2 and god-only-knows how many in WoW long after I really stopped enjoying it, is because it feels like I'm part of a world with other people.  If I wanted a single player game, I'd just play Skryim.

  • danwest58danwest58 Cincinnati, OHPosts: 981Member Uncommon

    People need to give over the fact ESO online will not have raid.  It is the Business's choice not to have raiding and it will be the business who closes their doors to a part of the MMO community.  Do I think it’s insane because this will be a Theme Park MMO and there is really no advancement yet beyond end game besides raiding in Theme Park MMOs.  Yea I do, however its ESO's choice.  

    Honestly as much as people say SWTOR sucks they did 1 thing right.  That is Casual style Operations, for people with very limited time.  It does not take a lot of effort to cobble together a raid set of gear.  They also made raiding 8 and 16 man, which getting 8 people together with the way the game is designed is very easy for anyone who is the raider type.  SWTOR raiding as been near 50% of its population, if I remember correctly last year Bioware announced that around 40% of the 50s have raided. Why?  Because running the operations were fun, easy and enjoyable.  What was really the down side of the raids at the time is well they were not hard enough from what a lot of people said and felt.  Too be honest, I been a hardcore raider back in Vanilla WoW days and done the 30+ hour weeks of raiding.  Hardcore raiders use to be a small percentage of the game then and are even smaller now.  What is the larger percentage of the game/raider community is really the casual raider. 

    If ESO wants to not have raiding they will not have a raider community which will cut out a larger and sufficient market for them.

    image

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,447Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Celcius
    Originally posted by Eir_S
    Originally posted by hMJem
    Originally posted by stori11
    Adding raids to this perticular mmo would be a mistake on their part seeing how they might loose a few players by making it mroe of a co-op game than mmo, but they would loose alot more players and face a massive backlash from TES fans if they made it wow-like mmo. Not that there is anything wrong with wow, I played it myself and enjoyed it, I hope my point is easy to understand.

    You know this is an MMORPG right? And you cant do the main story co-op? You're phased by yourself when doing the main story questline.

     

    Do you know what MMO means?

    Really?  I didn't know that.  Wow, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard... make a TES multiplayer game, then make the main storyline single player.  Brilliant.  If that's true, I'm almost offended at how utterly fucking stupid it is.

    Don't believe everything in this thread. Unless this guy can prove that you can't do the main story co-op I would take that comment with a grain of salt. 

    Read the IGN link I posted in the OP. He talks about teaming with someone and they each got their own story and it was all solo play.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • JasonJJasonJ New Port Richey, FLPosts: 395Member
    Originally posted by hMJem

    So you're saying Zenimax hopes their MMORPG turns into an after-thought like Asheron's Call?

     

    That's like saying because 300 people still played Everquest Online Adventures before it was shut down that it was still being successful.

     Thank you for proving your arugments hold no water.

    You went from saying NO LOGEVITY to then having to turn to "success", a term based on personal opinion...worse yet, you chose to go after just ONE example and tried to use it as a rule in order to ignore UO, which was almost as SUCCESSFUL as EQ in terms of population. UO topped over 300,000 players, and MORE than DaoC had at its peak and its still going.

    Doesnt matter if only 10,000 people are playing it today, its making a PROFIT which is why its still going today, same with Asherons Call.

    Profit = success, deal with it and your piss poor arugment.

  • hMJemhMJem Marysville, WAPosts: 465Member
    Originally posted by Eir_S
    Originally posted by Celcius
    Originally posted by Eir_S
    Originally posted by hMJem
    Originally posted by stori11
    Adding raids to this perticular mmo would be a mistake on their part seeing how they might loose a few players by making it mroe of a co-op game than mmo, but they would loose alot more players and face a massive backlash from TES fans if they made it wow-like mmo. Not that there is anything wrong with wow, I played it myself and enjoyed it, I hope my point is easy to understand.

    You know this is an MMORPG right? And you cant do the main story co-op? You're phased by yourself when doing the main story questline.

     

    Do you know what MMO means?

    Really?  I didn't know that.  Wow, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard... make a TES multiplayer game, then make the main storyline single player.  Brilliant.  If that's true, I'm almost offended at how utterly fucking stupid it is.

    Don't believe everything in this thread. Unless this guy can prove that you can't do the main story co-op I would take that comment with a grain of salt. 

    Maybe, and maybe it will be enjoyable regardless... but the main reason I only logged a little over a hundred hours in Skyrim, yet I'm nearing 700 in GW2 and god-only-knows how many in WoW long after I really stopped enjoying it, is because it feels like I'm part of a world with other people.  If I wanted a single player game, I'd just play Skryim.

    "The general quest line is 100% solo but that does not mean you must play alone. No, you can play with friends or with other people and pass your quests together. Moreover, it will be easier and more profitable to play in a group"

     

    General quest line is 100% solo = main story. You can do the other quests together, but not the main story.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,447Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by hMJem
    Originally posted by Eir_S
    Originally posted by hMJem
    Originally posted by stori11
    Adding raids to this perticular mmo would be a mistake on their part seeing how they might loose a few players by making it mroe of a co-op game than mmo, but they would loose alot more players and face a massive backlash from TES fans if they made it wow-like mmo. Not that there is anything wrong with wow, I played it myself and enjoyed it, I hope my point is easy to understand.

    You know this is an MMORPG right? And you cant do the main story co-op? You're phased by yourself when doing the main story questline.

     

    Do you know what MMO means?

    Really?  I didn't know that.  Wow, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard... make a TES multiplayer game, then make the main storyline single player.  Brilliant.  If that's true, I'm almost offended at how utterly fucking stupid it is.

    Of course it's true. The story is about YOUR soul. I forget which interview said it, but it is definitely confirmed that doing the main story-line you're phased off by yourself. For all we know the main story could only take a few hours like Skyrim's if you want it to. 

    Even everyday reg quests are not done with team dynamics. If your objectives are different because you picked a different option I would like to know if team mates can come into your phase of the quest and help. If not.. ((shrugs)) Whats ESO game plan for content and keep people playing together? Really would like to know.


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • hMJemhMJem Marysville, WAPosts: 465Member

    "The general quest line is 100% solo but that does not mean you must play alone. No, you can play with friends or with other people and pass your quests together. Moreover, it will be easier and more profitable to play in a group"

     

    Main quest line = you alone, phased off from the world. You can do other quests with friends, sure. But if you were hoping this is a Sandbox game, it isnt. Everquest Next as stated above is your best bet if you want a true sandbox experience and exploration/etc. And it's supposed to come out this year too.

  • meddyckmeddyck Athens, GAPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon
    I would absolutely love it if the game has no raids, but I don't believe it. Or rather I believe even if the game doesn't have raids or something like them at release, they will be added quickly after release. That just seems to be the pattern in MMOs.

    Camelot Unchained Backer
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  • Rthuth434Rthuth434 uniondale, NYPosts: 346Member
    Originally posted by Celcius
    Originally posted by Eir_S
    Originally posted by hMJem
    Originally posted by stori11
    Adding raids to this perticular mmo would be a mistake on their part seeing how they might loose a few players by making it mroe of a co-op game than mmo, but they would loose alot more players and face a massive backlash from TES fans if they made it wow-like mmo. Not that there is anything wrong with wow, I played it myself and enjoyed it, I hope my point is easy to understand.

    You know this is an MMORPG right? And you cant do the main story co-op? You're phased by yourself when doing the main story questline.

     

    Do you know what MMO means?

    Really?  I didn't know that.  Wow, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard... make a TES multiplayer game, then make the main storyline single player.  Brilliant.  If that's true, I'm almost offended at how utterly fucking stupid it is.

    Don't believe everything in this thread. Unless this guy can prove that you can't do the main story co-op I would take that comment with a grain of salt. 

    that is actually true. the storyline in TESO is 100% solo-only, you cannot do it with other players.

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,981Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rthuth434
    Originally posted by Celcius
    Originally posted by Eir_S
    Originally posted by hMJem
    Originally posted by stori11
    Adding raids to this perticular mmo would be a mistake on their part seeing how they might loose a few players by making it mroe of a co-op game than mmo, but they would loose alot more players and face a massive backlash from TES fans if they made it wow-like mmo. Not that there is anything wrong with wow, I played it myself and enjoyed it, I hope my point is easy to understand.

    You know this is an MMORPG right? And you cant do the main story co-op? You're phased by yourself when doing the main story questline.

     

    Do you know what MMO means?

    Really?  I didn't know that.  Wow, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard... make a TES multiplayer game, then make the main storyline single player.  Brilliant.  If that's true, I'm almost offended at how utterly fucking stupid it is.

    Don't believe everything in this thread. Unless this guy can prove that you can't do the main story co-op I would take that comment with a grain of salt. 

    that is actually true. the storyline in TESO is 100% solo-only, you cannot do it with other players.

    That's OK, just one more step towards the day when someone delivers a MMO that is entirely solo, no group content of any kind what so ever, outside of gathering areas to trade or something.  We're almost totally there already

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,447Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rthuth434
    Originally posted by Celcius
    Originally posted by Eir_S
    Originally posted by hMJem
    Originally posted by stori11
    Adding raids to this perticular mmo would be a mistake on their part seeing how they might loose a few players by making it mroe of a co-op game than mmo, but they would loose alot more players and face a massive backlash from TES fans if they made it wow-like mmo. Not that there is anything wrong with wow, I played it myself and enjoyed it, I hope my point is easy to understand.

    You know this is an MMORPG right? And you cant do the main story co-op? You're phased by yourself when doing the main story questline.

     

    Do you know what MMO means?

    Really?  I didn't know that.  Wow, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard... make a TES multiplayer game, then make the main storyline single player.  Brilliant.  If that's true, I'm almost offended at how utterly fucking stupid it is.

    Don't believe everything in this thread. Unless this guy can prove that you can't do the main story co-op I would take that comment with a grain of salt. 

    that is actually true. the storyline in TESO is 100% solo-only, you cannot do it with other players.

    Is it the conversation solo or is the phase for your quest solo? Like if you decide to let X NPC in your story live and I am at the same part and I kill him. So you are told to go help him clear out a cave of mobs. Can I join you? Anyone know?


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • LivnthedreamLivnthedream Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 555Member
    Originally posted by Kyleran

    That's OK, just one more step towards the day when someone delivers a MMO that is entirely solo, no group content of any kind what so ever, outside of gathering areas to trade or something.  We're almost totally there already

     

    Thats called Diablo 3

     

  • hMJemhMJem Marysville, WAPosts: 465Member

    100% solo as the quote says I'm fairly sure. Until you get your soul back or whatever the end of the main storyline may be, you are forced to do it all alone phased by yourself. So no, your friends cant even spectate you doing it or try to help.

     

    I am assuming you arent forced to do the main story ASAP, though. So maybe you can do normal quests but then be like "Okay I want to do the main story again, so I'll play with you later" but as already said the storyline is 100% solo no help no friends no other player inter-action.

  • LivnthedreamLivnthedream Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 555Member
    This is the sort of response we should be getting from the ESO devs http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/what_is_wildstar_raids.php
  • pokrakpokrak PoznanPosts: 101Member Uncommon
    I don't care about raids.
  • DrolkinDrolkin Palio, NBPosts: 242Member

    I wonder if the OP realizes how many people play games that don't have raids?

     

     

  • WinelenWinelen new milford, CTPosts: 11Member
    Originally posted by Eir_S
    Originally posted by Celcius
    Originally posted by Eir_S
    Originally posted by hMJem
    Originally posted by stori11
    Adding raids to this perticular mmo would be a mistake on their part seeing how they might loose a few players by making it mroe of a co-op game than mmo, but they would loose alot more players and face a massive backlash from TES fans if they made it wow-like mmo. Not that there is anything wrong with wow, I played it myself and enjoyed it, I hope my point is easy to understand.

    You know this is an MMORPG right? And you cant do the main story co-op? You're phased by yourself when doing the main story questline.

     

    Do you know what MMO means?

    Really?  I didn't know that.  Wow, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard... make a TES multiplayer game, then make the main storyline single player.  Brilliant.  If that's true, I'm almost offended at how utterly fucking stupid it is.

    Don't believe everything in this thread. Unless this guy can prove that you can't do the main story co-op I would take that comment with a grain of salt. 

    Maybe, and maybe it will be enjoyable regardless... but the main reason I only logged a little over a hundred hours in Skyrim, yet I'm nearing 700 in GW2 and god-only-knows how many in WoW long after I really stopped enjoying it, is because it feels like I'm part of a world with other people.  If I wanted a single player game, I'd just play Skryim.

    Could not have said it better myself! An "MMO" that really has no reason to be an MMO...... Of course ES fans will love this regardless, but I think a good majority of us are looking for that next MMO community to throw our lives at. 

This discussion has been closed.