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Wildstar - raiding focus officially explained

MargulisMargulis Glendale, AZPosts: 1,614Member

Here is the official  article released today about their stance on raiding, which seems to be a very  hardcore raiding focus.

http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/what_is_wildstar_raids.php

 

Personally there are a lot of things that interest me about Wildstar and that I like.  This is not one of them.   I don't agree at all that 40 man raids = more challenging, nor fun.  To me 40 man raids = more hassle and less people that will ever experience the content.  In this regard I think the devs are stuck in a 2005 MMO state of mind where MOST of the mmo community is moving, or has already moved, away from that.  Sure, some people will be excited about this, but who is that going to be?  The hardcore raiders - and what percentage has that been shown to be in mmos'?  10-20% at the most.  So again it's back to making the main focus on content that so little of the game population will ever experience or enjoy - and how does that make sense? 

And that begs the question - is raiding going to be the main elder game focus?  Evidence would point in that direction - what is being talked about the most over and over in videos, having articles written about it, etc?  Raiding.  There have been very few comments or focus about this end game solo content and a bit more regarding pvp - but not much.  And the comments I've heard about the solo elder game content in videos make it sound like it's a vision they have - not something even really worked on in depth at this point, where it seems the raiding definitely has been.  So where's the focus?  Seems like raiding to me.  And I guess if you're one of the few really hardcore raiders out there you'll love this.

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Comments

  • SmikisSmikis VilniusPosts: 1,045Member
    oh look its this shit back from 2007, "WE DO NOT WANT RAIDING ENDGAME " 50 mmorpgs came without focus on that.. 50 failed wow is still there.. still strong.. sure more accessible but not easier

    i havent playing wow in a long time, havent raided just as long, devoted so many hours into that,considered myself hardcore raider and so much have changed and so many times i said im not going back into that , I didnt, but after reading that i miss it again

    we had this kinda frankly bullshit whining topic every 20 mins 5 years ago , isnt it about time we get proper pve focused game ,
    we had aoc which decided to from pve focus for pvp focus and game failed.. it didnt sold 1mln copies in a week to pvp players, it did to all hardcore raiders.. content was not finished and bugged. locked out for months.. everyone quit after 2 months.. period i was there

    after that there was only rift , heck one of very few subscription based games, clearly gamers dont want raid focused endgame.. maybe because of that we had so many "casual" mmorpgs, all of them failed miserably , we get third one in ten years thats " more" ( its just fraction of endgame , maybe you failed to read that part ) and then you complain , dont play then, because i dont play casual mmorpgs too, even if i dont raid whats the point in mmorpg that have an ending.. thats not why we play mmorpgs
  • wormedwormed Calgary, ABPosts: 374Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Margulis

    Here is the official  article released today about their stance on raiding, which seems to be a very  hardcore raiding focus.http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/what_is_wildstar_raids.php Personally there are a lot of things that interest me about Wildstar and that I like.  This is not one of them.   I don't agree at all that 40 man raids = more challenging, nor fun.  To me 40 man raids = more hassle and less people that will ever experience the content.  In this regard I think the devs are stuck in a 2005 MMO state of mind where MOST of the mmo community is moving, or has already moved, away from that.  Sure, some people will be excited about this, but who is that going to be?  The hardcore raiders - and what percentage has that been shown to be in mmos'?  10-20% at the most.  So again it's back to making the main focus on content that so little of the game population will ever experience or enjoy - and how does that make sense? And that begs the question - is raiding going to be the main elder game focus?  Evidence would point in that direction - what is being talked about the most over and over in videos, having articles written about it, etc?  Raiding.  There have been very few comments or focus about this end game solo content and a bit more regarding pvp - but not much.  And the comments I've heard about the solo elder game content in videos make it sound like it's a vision they have - not something even really worked on in depth at this point, where it seems the raiding definitely has been.  So where's the focus?  Seems like raiding to me.  And I guess if you're one of the few really hardcore raiders out there you'll love this.

     

    Taking things out of context doesn't make you right. It doesn't say that 40 man raids are what MAKES it challenging, the article says that they want big raids and for raids to be challenging.

    I hate raiding, I'm a PvPer, but you're just being a whiner.
  • ragz45ragz45 rochester hills, MIPosts: 687Member Uncommon
    Personally I can't wait for Wildstar's 40 man raids.  I loved raiding in Vanila WoW.  40 man raids don't make it more challenging becuase there are 40 people, they make it more challenging because they can make the fights that much more involved and complex with more people.
  • RoxtarrRoxtarr Freeland, MI, MIPosts: 1,122Member
    Originally posted by Margulis

    Here is the official  article released today about their stance on raiding, which seems to be a very  hardcore raiding focus.

    http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/what_is_wildstar_raids.php

     

    Personally there are a lot of things that interest me about Wildstar and that I like.  This is not one of them.   I don't agree at all that 40 man raids = more challenging, nor fun.  To me 40 man raids = more hassle and less people that will ever experience the content.  In this regard I think the devs are stuck in a 2005 MMO state of mind where MOST of the mmo community is moving, or has already moved, away from that.  Sure, some people will be excited about this, but who is that going to be?  The hardcore raiders - and what percentage has that been shown to be in mmos'?  10-20% at the most.  So again it's back to making the main focus on content that so little of the game population will ever experience or enjoy - and how does that make sense? 

    And that begs the question - is raiding going to be the main elder game focus?  Evidence would point in that direction - what is being talked about the most over and over in videos, having articles written about it, etc?  Raiding.  There have been very few comments or focus about this end game solo content and a bit more regarding pvp - but not much.  And the comments I've heard about the solo elder game content in videos make it sound like it's a vision they have - not something even really worked on in depth at this point, where it seems the raiding definitely has been.  So where's the focus?  Seems like raiding to me.  And I guess if you're one of the few really hardcore raiders out there you'll love this.

     You obviously didn't read the very article you linked. If you had, you would have seen this line:

    "The last point on this topic, is to not assume that raids will be "the endgame" as is the case in many MMOs. It is simply "an endgame." For players who don't love this sort of content, there will be many other avenues and heaps of other Elder game content that will not require a player to set a foot inside a 20- or 40-man instance."

    If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
    image

  • meddyckmeddyck Athens, GAPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon
    One thing SWTOR made me realize is that you don't have to do a game's endgame just because it's there and the devs expect you to. You can put your level capped toon on the shelf and play alts as your end game. If Wildstar's end game is heavily oriented towards raiding or gear grinding, then I'll do the same thing in it.

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  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by Roxtarr
    Originally posted by Margulis

    http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/what_is_wildstar_raids.php

    So where's the focus?  Seems like raiding to me.  And I guess if you're one of the few really hardcore raiders out there you'll love this.

     You obviously didn't read the very article you linked. If you had, you would have seen this line:

    "The last point on this topic, is to not assume that raids will be "the endgame" as is the case in many MMOs. It is simply "an endgame." For players who don't love this sort of content, there will be many other avenues and heaps of other Elder game content that will not require a player to set a foot inside a 20- or 40-man instance."

    i agree

    but we are still awaiting more details about the elder nonraid game -- hopefully PAX will have info

  • SasamiSasami HelsinkiPosts: 326Member
    Originally posted by ragz45
    Personally I can't wait for Wildstar's 40 man raids.  I loved raiding in Vanila WoW.  40 man raids don't make it more challenging becuase there are 40 people, they make it more challenging because they can make the fights that much more involved and complex with more people.

    Actually they weren't, most people would just AFK lot of time with auto-follow. Infact most 10 man raids todays WoW are much more complex than MC Boredom was. I really don't see 40 man raids happening with todays MMO players, heck even 25 man raids in WoW is pain and full of hassle. Unless they do what GW2 does and group people together without much need for coordination, but I hardly call it raiding.

  • svandysvandy mount holly, NJPosts: 227Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Margulis

     less people that will ever experience the content.  

     

    Let me preface by saying - I am not interested in WildStar because it's just not my type of MMO anymore. That being said, how could the above quote be anything but a good thing? When a huge chunk of your playerbase is constantly striving to reach content, it eliminates some of the need to just churn out craptastic content every month. This was one area that, in my opinion, worked in WoW's favor during the vanilla days and I was always baffled by how they removed it. Sure, add 10 and 20 man raid content for smaller guilds, but what is wrong with having some 40 man raids thrown into the mix for the larger guilds?

    I remember that everyone on my vanilla WoW server knew which guilds were raiding what, and granted the game was much smaller back then, but part of it also had to do with the fact that your guild had to be large enough and well managed enough to be able to field those raids. Practically anybody can slap together 10 or 20 people and zerg a raid. And lets face it - wether its 4, 5, 10, 20, 40, or 100 every dungeon in modern MMOs is pretty much just a zerg-fest where the majority of your group spams damaging attacks, another part of the group spams heals, and another part spams threat-generation. Sprinkle in one or two dont-stand-in-the-fire mechanics and you have your modern MMO.

    40 man raids are a good thing for gating content, therefore preserving it longer, and for nostalgia purposes for many people.

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  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,221Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Roxtarr
    Originally posted by Margulis

    http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/what_is_wildstar_raids.php

    So where's the focus?  Seems like raiding to me.  And I guess if you're one of the few really hardcore raiders out there you'll love this.

     You obviously didn't read the very article you linked. If you had, you would have seen this line:

    "The last point on this topic, is to not assume that raids will be "the endgame" as is the case in many MMOs. It is simply "an endgame." For players who don't love this sort of content, there will be many other avenues and heaps of other Elder game content that will not require a player to set a foot inside a 20- or 40-man instance."

    i agree

    but we are still awaiting more details about the elder nonraid game -- hopefully PAX will have info

    But we've all heard that before right?  Every game that has raiding, Rift, WoW, EQ2, touts viable alternatives, but the raiding always ends up being the pinnacle event for progression.  Raiders aren't going to share that end game shiny and non-raiders are going to see the claim and situation for what it is.

    All the non-raid content in Rift, LotRO or EQ2 doesn't require a player to set foot inside a raid either.  All three of those games gate the nicest equipment and shinies behind their raids.  Non-raiders get second hand gear, second hand progression, but the game is true to their claim.  Raiding, as it's been implemented, has been overdone and is one of the tropes that is holding themepark progress back.

    edit: Also there is already another thread about this.

  • danwest58danwest58 Cincinnati, OHPosts: 991Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Margulis

    Here is the official  article released today about their stance on raiding, which seems to be a very  hardcore raiding focus.

    http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/what_is_wildstar_raids.php

     

    Personally there are a lot of things that interest me about Wildstar and that I like.  This is not one of them.   I don't agree at all that 40 man raids = more challenging, nor fun.  To me 40 man raids = more hassle and less people that will ever experience the content.  In this regard I think the devs are stuck in a 2005 MMO state of mind where MOST of the mmo community is moving, or has already moved, away from that.  Sure, some people will be excited about this, but who is that going to be?  The hardcore raiders - and what percentage has that been shown to be in mmos'?  10-20% at the most.  So again it's back to making the main focus on content that so little of the game population will ever experience or enjoy - and how does that make sense? 

    And that begs the question - is raiding going to be the main elder game focus?  Evidence would point in that direction - what is being talked about the most over and over in videos, having articles written about it, etc?  Raiding.  There have been very few comments or focus about this end game solo content and a bit more regarding pvp - but not much.  And the comments I've heard about the solo elder game content in videos make it sound like it's a vision they have - not something even really worked on in depth at this point, where it seems the raiding definitely has been.  So where's the focus?  Seems like raiding to me.  And I guess if you're one of the few really hardcore raiders out there you'll love this.

    I use to like the 40 man raids back in WoW.  If Wildstar wants to go this route they will find out fast how few raids will be run.  92% of all WoW raiding guilds are 10 man raiding guilds, even some of the hardcore raiding guilds.  Why?  Because how hard it is to get 10 or more skilled raiders.  Wildstar will learn fast that this is a fail route. 

    image

  • danwest58danwest58 Cincinnati, OHPosts: 991Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Roxtarr
    Originally posted by Margulis

    http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/what_is_wildstar_raids.php

    So where's the focus?  Seems like raiding to me.  And I guess if you're one of the few really hardcore raiders out there you'll love this.

     You obviously didn't read the very article you linked. If you had, you would have seen this line:

    "The last point on this topic, is to not assume that raids will be "the endgame" as is the case in many MMOs. It is simply "an endgame." For players who don't love this sort of content, there will be many other avenues and heaps of other Elder game content that will not require a player to set a foot inside a 20- or 40-man instance."

    i agree

    but we are still awaiting more details about the elder nonraid game -- hopefully PAX will have info

    But we've all heard that before right?  Every game that has raiding, Rift, WoW, EQ2, touts viable alternatives, but the raiding always ends up being the pinnacle event for progression.  Raiders aren't going to share that end game shiny and non-raiders are going to see the claim and situation for what it is.

    All the non-raid content in Rift, LotRO or EQ2 doesn't require a player to set foot inside a raid either.  All three of those games gate the nicest equipment and shinies behind their raids.  Non-raiders get second hand gear, second hand progression, but the game is true to their claim.  Raiding, as it's been implemented, has been overdone and is one of the tropes that is holding themepark progress back.

    edit: Also there is already another thread about this.

     

    I dont think Raiding holds Themepark progression back.  Its really the size of the raids that hold progression back as well as how tough it is.  Take SWTOR for example the raiding is easy and the smallest raid is 8 man.  They have a large group of players (Near 50%) that have run operations even if its only on story mode.  Why?  Because it takes a lot less effort to pull a group together and the raids are not tough.  Yes SWTOR sucks if you want hardcore progression raiding, however the game is not built for that like WoW or Rift are.

    image

  • DrolkinDrolkin Palio, NBPosts: 242Member
    I was excited about this game 4 years ago, not so much anymore, by the time they release it I feel it will be outdated/cookiecutter/better things released by then.
  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser ParisPosts: 1,873Member
    Originally posted by Roxtarr
    Originally posted by Margulis

    Here is the official  article released today about their stance on raiding, which seems to be a very  hardcore raiding focus.

    http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/what_is_wildstar_raids.php

     

    Personally there are a lot of things that interest me about Wildstar and that I like.  This is not one of them.   I don't agree at all that 40 man raids = more challenging, nor fun.  To me 40 man raids = more hassle and less people that will ever experience the content.  In this regard I think the devs are stuck in a 2005 MMO state of mind where MOST of the mmo community is moving, or has already moved, away from that.  Sure, some people will be excited about this, but who is that going to be?  The hardcore raiders - and what percentage has that been shown to be in mmos'?  10-20% at the most.  So again it's back to making the main focus on content that so little of the game population will ever experience or enjoy - and how does that make sense? 

    And that begs the question - is raiding going to be the main elder game focus?  Evidence would point in that direction - what is being talked about the most over and over in videos, having articles written about it, etc?  Raiding.  There have been very few comments or focus about this end game solo content and a bit more regarding pvp - but not much.  And the comments I've heard about the solo elder game content in videos make it sound like it's a vision they have - not something even really worked on in depth at this point, where it seems the raiding definitely has been.  So where's the focus?  Seems like raiding to me.  And I guess if you're one of the few really hardcore raiders out there you'll love this.

     You obviously didn't read the very article you linked. If you had, you would have seen this line:

    "The last point on this topic, is to not assume that raids will be "the endgame" as is the case in many MMOs. It is simply "an endgame." For players who don't love this sort of content, there will be many other avenues and heaps of other Elder game content that will not require a player to set a foot inside a 20- or 40-man instance."

    Such a deja vu after reading this. So many companies claim 'raiding won't be the end game..there will be other ways to progress' and yet we know how things pan out after release.

    Not buying this even for a second. Where new MMOS are trying to get away from raiding and grind for some reason Wildstar decided to stay back in 2005.

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

    image

  • MuntzMuntz Minneapolis, MNPosts: 332Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by Roxtarr
    Originally posted by Margulis

    Here is the official  article released today about their stance on raiding, which seems to be a very  hardcore raiding focus.

    http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/what_is_wildstar_raids.php

     

    Personally there are a lot of things that interest me about Wildstar and that I like.  This is not one of them.   I don't agree at all that 40 man raids = more challenging, nor fun.  To me 40 man raids = more hassle and less people that will ever experience the content.  In this regard I think the devs are stuck in a 2005 MMO state of mind where MOST of the mmo community is moving, or has already moved, away from that.  Sure, some people will be excited about this, but who is that going to be?  The hardcore raiders - and what percentage has that been shown to be in mmos'?  10-20% at the most.  So again it's back to making the main focus on content that so little of the game population will ever experience or enjoy - and how does that make sense? 

    And that begs the question - is raiding going to be the main elder game focus?  Evidence would point in that direction - what is being talked about the most over and over in videos, having articles written about it, etc?  Raiding.  There have been very few comments or focus about this end game solo content and a bit more regarding pvp - but not much.  And the comments I've heard about the solo elder game content in videos make it sound like it's a vision they have - not something even really worked on in depth at this point, where it seems the raiding definitely has been.  So where's the focus?  Seems like raiding to me.  And I guess if you're one of the few really hardcore raiders out there you'll love this.

     You obviously didn't read the very article you linked. If you had, you would have seen this line:

    "The last point on this topic, is to not assume that raids will be "the endgame" as is the case in many MMOs. It is simply "an endgame." For players who don't love this sort of content, there will be many other avenues and heaps of other Elder game content that will not require a player to set a foot inside a 20- or 40-man instance."

    Such a deja vu after reading this. So many companies claim 'raiding won't be the end game..there will be other ways to progress' and yet we know how things pan out after release.

    Not buying this even for a second. Where new MMOS are trying to get away from raiding and grind for some reason Wildstar decided to stay back in 2005.

    In order for this to appeal to raiders you have to appease their feeling that they deserve the best gear for the effort otherwise most will say "why raid?". So I don't see how they will be able to create "other avenues" and still keep a healthy raiding community. I guess if the "other avenues" are some how viewed as more difficult. 

  • KareliaKarelia HeraklionPosts: 668Member

    i dont care if the 90% of the player base will not see the full content. i dont care if i am at 90% too.

    i would like to see indeed hard raids in ws. very hard. you must have a goal. to see whats next. to go where 10% goes. to have even a single piece of loot from there. to pray to be in a good raiding guild and have you selected for their raiding team.

    i think all those makes you feel a bit EPIC. at least i felt sometimes like this in the past :)

  • VembumeesVembumees WildStarPosts: 79Member
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Roxtarr
    Originally posted by Margulis

    http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/what_is_wildstar_raids.php

    So where's the focus?  Seems like raiding to me.  And I guess if you're one of the few really hardcore raiders out there you'll love this.

     You obviously didn't read the very article you linked. If you had, you would have seen this line:

    "The last point on this topic, is to not assume that raids will be "the endgame" as is the case in many MMOs. It is simply "an endgame." For players who don't love this sort of content, there will be many other avenues and heaps of other Elder game content that will not require a player to set a foot inside a 20- or 40-man instance."

    i agree

    but we are still awaiting more details about the elder nonraid game -- hopefully PAX will have info

    But we've all heard that before right?  Every game that has raiding, Rift, WoW, EQ2, touts viable alternatives, but the raiding always ends up being the pinnacle event for progression.  Raiders aren't going to share that end game shiny and non-raiders are going to see the claim and situation for what it is.

    All the non-raid content in Rift, LotRO or EQ2 doesn't require a player to set foot inside a raid either.  All three of those games gate the nicest equipment and shinies behind their raids.  Non-raiders get second hand gear, second hand progression, but the game is true to their claim.  Raiding, as it's been implemented, has been overdone and is one of the tropes that is holding themepark progress back.

    edit: Also there is already another thread about this.

    They offer second hand gear, because everything nonraiders do don't require more. There is absolutely zero, absolutely no reason, for a person who does not do raids, to get equal gear to raiders, other than just jealousy. People like you hate this system, because you are a god damn greedy person and for some reason you don't realize it yourselves. You just want what others have. Why do you need the raiding gear? To do larger crits to critters? Raids give better gear because higher level gear have such things as gear checks, which stop players from progressing if they do not meet the gear requirements, which is for offering more challenge and more content per time. Giving the players who do not raid, raiding gear, only destroys the difficult of raiding. Then games (wow these days in challenge modes, done only thanks to greedy players like you who just want to have what others have, even if they don't ever use it) have to actually make mechanics like changing your gear values in the raid instance, so that people wouldn't faceroll the content with the best gear that you can easily obtain (without raiding).

     

    Casuals hate raiding only because of greed. You hate your neighbour who has a ferrari only because you don't have a ferrari. Even tho you don't need one at all.

  • tintilinictintilinic aPosts: 283Member
    Originally posted by Vembumees

    They offer second hand gear, because everything nonraiders do don't require more. There is absolutely zero, absolutely no reason, for a person who does not do raids, to get equal gear to raiders, other than just jealousy. People like you hate this system, because you are a god damn greedy person and for some reason you don't realize it yourselves. You just want what others have. Why do you need the raiding gear? To do larger crits to critters? Raids give better gear because higher level gear have such things as gear checks, which stop players from progressing if they do not meet the gear requirements, which is for offering more challenge and more content per time. Giving the players who do not raid, raiding gear, only destroys the difficult of raiding. Then games (wow these days in challenge modes, done only thanks to greedy players like you who just want to have what others have, even if they don't ever use it) have to actually make mechanics like changing your gear values in the raid instance, so that people wouldn't faceroll the content with the best gear that you can easily obtain (without raiding).

     

    Casuals hate raiding only because of greed. You hate your neighbour who has a ferrari only because you don't have a ferrari. Even tho you don't need one at all.

    This post has so much fallacy in it that its astounding.

     

    1. raiders do not need "raid gear". Requirement for higher stats =/= more challenging. Far from it.

    2. Its raiders who are greedy and want eevrything under false assumption  they are "worth more" and "deserve more" than anyone else

    3. How exactly "doing bigger crits" makes anything more challenging? How does doing more DPS/HPS/TPS makes that raid boss more challenging? ooooops it doesnt.

    4. Gear checks are sooooo abbysmal concept. One thing raiders fear is that some "casual" out there might beat same content when on equal footing. But have no fear, gear check is in place ensuring that no "unworthy casual" even stand a (mathematical) chance unless they do stupid amount of very simple "on farm" content grind

    5. Giving raiders gear with better stats screwes up balance of the whole game because of ridiculous stats that are only required in infinately small piece of content. Again, abbysmal gear check concept

    6. Casuals "hate raiding" because of undeserved preference of content. If you want your Ferrari analogy, yah, one might "hate the Ferrai guy" if the only reason he has Ferrari is becaus he is of the right "kind" (if you know what i mean) and doesnt really deserve or need that Ferrari more or less than anyone else

    7. I was a raider (and still do raids occasioanly) and you are not a raider, you are simple elitist and thats the reason why "casuals hate raiders"

    8. Casuals carry the MMO(s), without them vast maojority of MMO would nose dive, one experiment i proposed (now quite a few years back) for SWTOR is to make game free and just charge sub if you want to do raids, just to see how good it will do.

    9. "raiding is most challenging content evar" is logical fallacy, just because few games did that thing that way doesnt make it nearly universal truth, try to do any raid solo and you will soon discover the universal truth. [mod edit]

  • tintilinictintilinic aPosts: 283Member
    Originally posted by Muntz
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by Roxtarr
    Originally posted by Margulis

    Here is the official  article released today about their stance on raiding, which seems to be a very  hardcore raiding focus.

    http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/what_is_wildstar_raids.php

     

    Personally there are a lot of things that interest me about Wildstar and that I like.  This is not one of them.   I don't agree at all that 40 man raids = more challenging, nor fun.  To me 40 man raids = more hassle and less people that will ever experience the content.  In this regard I think the devs are stuck in a 2005 MMO state of mind where MOST of the mmo community is moving, or has already moved, away from that.  Sure, some people will be excited about this, but who is that going to be?  The hardcore raiders - and what percentage has that been shown to be in mmos'?  10-20% at the most.  So again it's back to making the main focus on content that so little of the game population will ever experience or enjoy - and how does that make sense? 

    And that begs the question - is raiding going to be the main elder game focus?  Evidence would point in that direction - what is being talked about the most over and over in videos, having articles written about it, etc?  Raiding.  There have been very few comments or focus about this end game solo content and a bit more regarding pvp - but not much.  And the comments I've heard about the solo elder game content in videos make it sound like it's a vision they have - not something even really worked on in depth at this point, where it seems the raiding definitely has been.  So where's the focus?  Seems like raiding to me.  And I guess if you're one of the few really hardcore raiders out there you'll love this.

     You obviously didn't read the very article you linked. If you had, you would have seen this line:

    "The last point on this topic, is to not assume that raids will be "the endgame" as is the case in many MMOs. It is simply "an endgame." For players who don't love this sort of content, there will be many other avenues and heaps of other Elder game content that will not require a player to set a foot inside a 20- or 40-man instance."

    Such a deja vu after reading this. So many companies claim 'raiding won't be the end game..there will be other ways to progress' and yet we know how things pan out after release.

    Not buying this even for a second. Where new MMOS are trying to get away from raiding and grind for some reason Wildstar decided to stay back in 2005.

    In order for this to appeal to raiders you have to appease their feeling that they deserve the best gear for the effort otherwise most will say "why raid?". So I don't see how they will be able to create "other avenues" and still keep a healthy raiding community. I guess if the "other avenues" are some how viewed as more difficult. 

    The fuuny thing is, those "raiders" absolutely refuse unique rewards and absolutely demand higher stats on gear, and not just marginally higher stats, exponentionally higher stats.

    I aways laugh when they mention competition in this respect, do you see Usain Bolt get super running shoes that make him run 1s faster  when he wins? Nope, true competition is made on equal footing, in fact having things outside of that equal footing is considered violation and yields suspension or removal (see doping, speedo LZR swimming suit etc.)

  • LivnthedreamLivnthedream Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 555Member
    Originally posted by Drolkin
    I was excited about this game 4 years ago, not so much anymore, by the time they release it I feel it will be outdated/cookiecutter/better things released by then.

    What do you expect? The average mmo dev time is 5 years. It takes time to make that stuff you know.

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,206Member Uncommon

    finally large-scale raiding.

     

    or should I say...massive-multiplayer pve. :)

     

    I'm not much of a pvp'er so I'm happy.

    image

  • ZetsueiZetsuei Dana, KYPosts: 252Member
    Originally posted by Sasami
    Originally posted by ragz45
    Personally I can't wait for Wildstar's 40 man raids.  I loved raiding in Vanila WoW.  40 man raids don't make it more challenging becuase there are 40 people, they make it more challenging because they can make the fights that much more involved and complex with more people.

    Actually they weren't, most people would just AFK lot of time with auto-follow. Infact most 10 man raids todays WoW are much more complex than MC Boredom was. I really don't see 40 man raids happening with todays MMO players, heck even 25 man raids in WoW is pain and full of hassle. Unless they do what GW2 does and group people together without much need for coordination, but I hardly call it raiding.

    This man speaks the truth.

    Anyone who thinks 40 man raids are good are just vanilla WoW players who are blinded by nostalgia. 40 man raids consisted of: Trolls, afks, dying on purpose, etc. You would have about 20-30-ish people carry the others cause the fights had to be simple otherwise it would be impossible.

    I think 10 is the best for a raid group. You have enough players to actually implement mechanics and each person has to carry their weight or the group fails. Any higher past 10 and the mechanics have to get simplified to match the IQ level of each raider. 

    Raiding is fine to add onto any game, but when you lose sight of what makes raiding a great thing, thats when you need to not do it. 40 man raids is one of those things that needs to die off.

  • tintilinictintilinic aPosts: 283Member
    Originally posted by Zetsuei
    Originally posted by Sasami
    Originally posted by ragz45
    Personally I can't wait for Wildstar's 40 man raids.  I loved raiding in Vanila WoW.  40 man raids don't make it more challenging becuase there are 40 people, they make it more challenging because they can make the fights that much more involved and complex with more people.

    Actually they weren't, most people would just AFK lot of time with auto-follow. Infact most 10 man raids todays WoW are much more complex than MC Boredom was. I really don't see 40 man raids happening with todays MMO players, heck even 25 man raids in WoW is pain and full of hassle. Unless they do what GW2 does and group people together without much need for coordination, but I hardly call it raiding.

    This man speaks the truth.

    Anyone who thinks 40 man raids are good are just vanilla WoW players who are blinded by nostalgia. 40 man raids consisted of: Trolls, afks, dying on purpose, etc. You would have about 20-30-ish people carry the others cause the fights had to be simple otherwise it would be impossible.

    I think 10 is the best for a raid group. You have enough players to actually implement mechanics and each person has to carry their weight or the group fails. Any higher past 10 and the mechanics have to get simplified to match the IQ level of each raider. 

    Raiding is fine to add onto any game, but when you lose sight of what makes raiding a great thing, thats when you need to not do it. 40 man raids is one of those things that needs to die off.

    Not necessarily. What needs to die is whole gear progression thingy, nothing wrong with having various # people raids :)

    Most people arent against -insert number of people- raids, but most people are against abbysmal archaic concept that those raids were part of.

  • mrbungle419mrbungle419 Sylvania, OHPosts: 44Member
    Originally posted by Zetsuei
    Originally posted by Sasami
    Originally posted by ragz45
    Personally I can't wait for Wildstar's 40 man raids.  I loved raiding in Vanila WoW.  40 man raids don't make it more challenging becuase there are 40 people, they make it more challenging because they can make the fights that much more involved and complex with more people.

    Actually they weren't, most people would just AFK lot of time with auto-follow. Infact most 10 man raids todays WoW are much more complex than MC Boredom was. I really don't see 40 man raids happening with todays MMO players, heck even 25 man raids in WoW is pain and full of hassle. Unless they do what GW2 does and group people together without much need for coordination, but I hardly call it raiding.

    This man speaks the truth.

    Anyone who thinks 40 man raids are good are just vanilla WoW players who are blinded by nostalgia. 40 man raids consisted of: Trolls, afks, dying on purpose, etc. You would have about 20-30-ish people carry the others cause the fights had to be simple otherwise it would be impossible.

    I think 10 is the best for a raid group. You have enough players to actually implement mechanics and each person has to carry their weight or the group fails. Any higher past 10 and the mechanics have to get simplified to match the IQ level of each raider. 

    Raiding is fine to add onto any game, but when you lose sight of what makes raiding a great thing, thats when you need to not do it. 40 man raids is one of those things that needs to die off.

    I'm sure you'll pretend like you were in some elite guild, but your guild sounds like shit.  We never had these issues, yet I seem to hear about this type of nonsense often.  WoW isn't the only game to ever have large scale raids either.  I played in big raids in Vanguard and EQ.  If they were to just make this game like WoW NO ONE WOULD PLAY IT.  Why would people leave a game they were playing for years, leave all their friends and gear, leave their max lvl toons to play a game with the exact same features being developed by a company with 1/100000 the amount of money?  Wildstar needs these types of features to set themselves apart from a WoW clone MMO landscape.  If they move to 10 man raids, they may as well never even turn the servers on.  If they move to a GW2 style of raiding, again, just go ahead and file bankruptcy now.

     

    And to pretend like 10 mans like Naxx 10, Kara, MSV, ZA, ToC, HoF to name a few were complex or difficult or anywhere near as epic as the classic 40 mans is pretty much a laugh riot to me.  Comparing naxx40 to naxx10 is like comparing Van Gough to the guy who draws bazooka joe comics.  Please, show me the guilds that were getting passed Huuharan or any Naxx boss with 10-20 afk players.  I'll be waiting (and laughing at that thought).  I'd love to see a 30 man group try to beat Twin Emps or C'thun or hell, Nefarion or Chromagg while it was current content. 

     

    People love to pull the nostalgia card when they just make up how things actually were.

  • SiveriaSiveria Saint John, New BrunswickPosts: 1,200Member Uncommon
    All I can say is: Who cares? the game is just another damn wow-clone/wannabe with nothing that really makes it unique like most other mmo's recently, if your expecting much from wildstar your going to be very dissapointed.

    Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

    A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

    or

    B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

    Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  • mrbungle419mrbungle419 Sylvania, OHPosts: 44Member
    Originally posted by Siveria
    All I can say is: Who cares? the game is just another damn wow-clone/wannabe with nothing that really makes it unique like most other mmo's recently, if your expecting much from wildstar your going to be very dissapointed.

    Yeah, there have been some really high quality MMO's released recently... OH WAIT

     

    Never understood why people make the above comments on a game they've never played.  It would be like me going over and bashing World of Tanks or something.  I've never played it, I have no interest in it, so clearly my opinion is extremely important on the topic, right?

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