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Star Wars: The Old Republic: EA CEO John Riccitiello Steps Down

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  • GaborikGaborik Roseville, MNPosts: 251Member
    Ok I Am Confused As Why This Is Not Under General Gaming? The Poster Who Is An Mmorpg Staff Member Even Could Only Have One Reason For This ANd Most Get Banned For Making A Post That Baits Others To Make Negative Comnents. That Is The Only Reason I See Putting This Under Swtor. Not Once In TheStory Does It Mention Swtor! Btw Sorry About The Caps Razr New Update Sucks!
  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Originally posted by Elikal
    Originally posted by Calerxes

    Elikal, SWG was one of the biggest flops in MMO history but still fanboys bang on about how it was such an "awesome" game, it wasn't. Why would anyone in their right mind copy a complete fuck up of a game? it doesn't matter that you and a few others cannot get over the fact that its gone, you don't copy a bad idea just because... though its still playble if you know where to look. The vast majority of gamers do not want to play Luke's uncle the boring moisture farmer, Theed City Architect or Twi'lek frigging dancers but millions love playing story driven games like KOTOR, Mass Effect and Dragon Age so which format would you copy?

    The problems with SW:TOR was the scope of the project and the crappy engine they bought not the fact that it wasn't SWG2 but Bioware and Riccitello promised WoW profits and the EA board did not see any such thing add to that the outcry of ME3, DA2's failings, the recent Sim City cock ups and the past few years of losing money the board thought it was probably time for a change. 

    I am not talking about some crude things like money, I am talking about CREATIVITY, I am talking about DREAMS. SWG was a roaring success. Creativity-wise. People who played it, loved and and we SWG players still live from the memories! It shaped people! SWG was, in terms of creativity one of the greatest MMOs since UO. But it was lacking, yes.

    But what did Bioware do? Did they take the good parts of SWG and expand on it? No, Bioware-EA did what they always do: they tossed EVERYTHING out of the window and started with their own absurd idea to shoehorn a SW MMO into their KOTOR concept. Nobody wanted SWTOR to be SWG2, but LEARN what was good, adopt those concepts which were good, not totally IGNORE EVERYTHING! You see there is a way between "copy SWG" and totally ignore it!

    A VAST number actually loved playing Uncle Owen. 5 million Farmville players loved playing Uncle Owen. 80% of Ultima Online's players loved playing Uncle Owen, had a farm, a shop and were VERY happy with just that! But I wrote that 200 times, and apparently humans simply do not learn.

    And so we are like in Groundhog Day. Doomed to see the same failures over and over again.

    ENJOY!

    You know...I hate EA just as much as the next guy, but I don't really think they can be held completely responsible for SWTOR's core design, and its failings.  I mean, SWTOR was designed by Bioware, and it is very much the Bioware formula, they even stated on multiple occasions that they wanted SWTOR to be the successor to the KOTOR series.  So I really think that Bioware was responsible for the core design of SWTOR.

    As to why it failed...well I think that boils down to one simple fact with a lot of implications:

    Some games just are better of being single player.

    SWTOR's problem was that it tried to marry the "modern" Bioware voice and story heavy game with WoW, but this cost both "aspects" of the game a great deal and the end result was a game that was worse than both its influences.

    For example, in order to preserve the "heavy story" feel, Bioware made extensive use of instancing, but this wound up doing a lot of damage to the MMORPG feel of the game.

    Since the game was an MMORPG, Bioware wanted to offer a lot of different character choices, but wound up having to create large, expensive storylines for each of these classes in order to maintain their "heavy story" feel.  This wound up driving costs through the roof, and I think it also drove the quality of the game's storytelling down.  Most people agree that some of the class stories are decent, but many are sub-par...when something gets too big, it's almost impossible to keep up a good level of quality.

    Bioware also wanted to have more "traditional" MMORPG conceits like dungeons and raids for longevity, and they added their trademark story telling to these.  But the problem is that, that story is only interesting the FIRST time you go through it...and given MMORPG players' tendency to rush through dungeons, many players found themselves pressured to skip cinematics they have never seen just to not aggravate the group.

    These are just a few examples, but I think you can see the SP parts of the game clash with the MMORPG parts of the game over and over.  SWTOR is simply a game that has no harmony between its parts...it seems to be actively working against itself all the time.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 7,906Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by KyBo

    First off, those stating that nothing will change are correct.  The way the system works in most corporations, the CEO is the top manager of the company, but he answers to the board.  The chairman of the board, Probst, now doubling as CEO, is the top dog.  Probst, who leads the board, which makes most of the executive decisions for the corporation, will now also take the decisions he made with the board and carry them out as CEO until they find a replacement.

    The earnings report for the 1st quarter of 2013 will come out by the end of April, which means they're already pretty much calculated.  With Riccitello being suddenly fired (and "mutually decided it was time to part ways" is as close to actually saying "we fired him" as I've seen in a major corporate memo without the fired person being charged with a crime), then you can guarantee that EA's profits will be way less than the forecasted numbers.  Bad earnings reports on top of some of the more idiotic things that have happened on his watch, and some of the stupid statements that have come directly out of his mouth are a recipe for this kind of corporate beheading.

    Now if someone over at Sony would just see this as a sign to finally throw John Smedley off the ledge....

    EA like most big enough companies are mired by the "God Complex". It means this: in a big enough company, the decision making people usually earn BIG MONEY. When you earn big money, at one point you think you are infailible. They develop a God Complex, they become opaque to ANY advise and critique.

    And it's not only the EA bosses. Lead designers suffer from the same delusions. Take Daniel Erickson from SWTOR. Mister "People don't want to play alien races." Never seen any man utter so much bollocks with so much convinction. It's big money earners God Complex. "I am infailibe. I am always right. I need no advise. I am above all critique."

    Here is the newsflash, EA: NOBODY is above critique. NOBODY is so clever that he/she is always right. Everyone needs advise now and then. EA has a problem with respect. They have ZERO respect towards games. They force some alien idea into games, just because some God Complex overpaid bonzo feels this is the new trend and "his new vision". That is why their failure with games is always the same. They try to force some "trendy" idea into games, where they do not belong, greedily gazing at all the more money they want to make, instead of just focussing on a good game.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • jandrsnjandrsn Minneapolis, MNPosts: 187Member
    Originally posted by Nadia

    Originally posted by Elikal  what did Bioware do? Did they take the good parts of SWG and expand on it? No, Bioware-EA did what they always do: they tossed EVERYTHING out of the window and started with their own absurd idea to shoehorn a SW MMO into their KOTOR concept.

    personally i found this past comment troubling pre-SWTOR release

     

    BioWare co-founder Greg Zeschuk 

    Feb 2011, a year before SWTOR released

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/02/10/bioware-wow-is-the-touchstone-for-the-old-republic/
    [World of Warcraft] is a touchstone. It has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb," Zeschuk said.

     

    this deserves more recognition, great post. The pet rock sold a lot, but stoneware dealers did't change their businesses. Why should every mmorpg whore itself out to try to gain the WOW market?


  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by jandrsn
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Elikal

     what did Bioware do? Did they take the good parts of SWG and expand on it? No, Bioware-EA did what they always do: they tossed EVERYTHING out of the window and started with their own absurd idea to shoehorn a SW MMO into their KOTOR concept.

    personally i found this past comment troubling pre-SWTOR release

     

    BioWare co-founder Greg Zeschuk 

    Feb 2011, a year before SWTOR released

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/02/10/bioware-wow-is-the-touchstone-for-the-old-republic/
    [World of Warcraft] is a touchstone. It has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb," Zeschuk said.

     

    this deserves more recognition, great post. The pet rock sold a lot, but stoneware dealers did't change their businesses. Why should every mmorpg whore itself out to try to gain the WOW market?

     

    Had SWTOR actually copied WoW (/roll command, combat log, macro and addon support, not to mention the wealth of content), it would have actually been a pretty sick MMO.
  • TsaboHavocTsaboHavoc PinheiralPosts: 351Member
    Originally posted by daltanious
    Originally posted by RefMinor
    Is F2P working for SWTOR?

    Returned after half year aprox and full of players everywhere. But true, there is only 1 PVE server even if updated to sustain more players at same time.

    But wondering what you consider under "working"? For me F2P in any game mean horde of cheap people, usually with bad manners, not caring about anything ... in worst case will recreate new dummy account.

    F2P is ruin for QUALITY gaming. Period.

    u just fell in a funny forum trap.

  • LatronusLatronus Lexington Park, MDPosts: 692Member
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by jandrsn
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Elikal

     what did Bioware do? Did they take the good parts of SWG and expand on it? No, Bioware-EA did what they always do: they tossed EVERYTHING out of the window and started with their own absurd idea to shoehorn a SW MMO into their KOTOR concept.

    personally i found this past comment troubling pre-SWTOR release

     

    BioWare co-founder Greg Zeschuk 

    Feb 2011, a year before SWTOR released

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/02/10/bioware-wow-is-the-touchstone-for-the-old-republic/
    [World of Warcraft] is a touchstone. It has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb," Zeschuk said.

     

    this deserves more recognition, great post. The pet rock sold a lot, but stoneware dealers did't change their businesses. Why should every mmorpg whore itself out to try to gain the WOW market?

     

    Had SWTOR actually copied WoW (/roll command, combat log, macro and addon support, not to mention the wealth of content), it would have actually been a pretty sick MMO.

    Content comes with time, or do you think it launched over 8 years ago with the same amount of content it has now?  Yes, there was sarcasm there.  The other things can stay in WoW where they belong.  If you need an addon to tell you to move or you are going to get whacked by an AOE then you might want to stay in WoW where thought is not needed.  Just a heartbeat and that is just an option.

    The word "you" is meant to be read as a general term and not directed at doodphace.

    image
  • DestaiDestai Detroit, MIPosts: 574Member
    Originally posted by Psychow

    I wonder how many more careers need to be destroyed before the gaming community is satisfied with their bloodlust...

     

    It's sad to see this happen to people; it's a result of the companies not getting their requirements right. They're going after shallow features, aren't given the proper budget and timeline, and possibly over promising. We're seeing the market correct itself. MMORPGs are tough to develop and shouldn't be undertaken by every company. I believe it should be a smaller market so their careers are spent on games that are successful rather than the turnover we currently. 

    Players aren't patient, you're right. But should we be? Should buying games that are different than advertised be acceptable? I realize there are different sets of expectations among the player base, but keep your promises. We're not going to get better games until companies understand what we want. I think Kickstarter is a great model and could be used to develop a game more democratically; I feel that'd be the most successful. Unfortunately, it seems companies are learning what's wrong rather than what's right. They see their losses, their subscriptions drop, and see that they made a mistake. They see the've overreached. They're seeing the problem, they're acknowledging the problem, but not drafting a solution. Solutions cost money, far more than stoploss measures.

  • DestaiDestai Detroit, MIPosts: 574Member
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Elikal

     what did Bioware do? Did they take the good parts of SWG and expand on it? No, Bioware-EA did what they always do: they tossed EVERYTHING out of the window and started with their own absurd idea to shoehorn a SW MMO into their KOTOR concept.

    personally i found this past comment troubling pre-SWTOR release

     

    BioWare co-founder Greg Zeschuk 

    Feb 2011, a year before SWTOR released

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/02/10/bioware-wow-is-the-touchstone-for-the-old-republic/
    [World of Warcraft] is a touchstone. It has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb," Zeschuk said.

    I don't think he's necessarily wrong in this respect. Let's look at what WoW established.

    1. Open world, without loading between zones. 

    2. Group Finders to facilitate grouping between players.

    3. Cohesive class design where role was well defined

    4. Tiered crafting

    5. Mounts - both air and land

    6. Clean and moddable interface

    7. Content for hardcore and casual players alike

    For the amount of money that is invested in these games, you'd think some sort of standards agency would be developed. I think that a lot of upcoming games look at WoW on a superficial level - they see the graphics, the toolbar, the models, etc. and think that's what made it successful. That's not it. It brought people together. They polished their gem. However, not every developer has a diamond - some have tiger's eye or sapphires. My point is, make your game clean, fun, and accessible. Make it easy for people to get together and enjoy playing with each other. In my opinion, that's what made the phenomenon it was/is. The cultural factors or external factors can't be replicated. It might have just come out at the right time. 

  • BurntvetBurntvet Baltimore, MDPosts: 2,948Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Destai

    Originally posted by Psychow
    I wonder how many more careers need to be destroyed before the gaming community is satisfied with their bloodlust...  

    It's sad to see this happen to people; it's a result of the companies not getting their requirements right. They're going after shallow features, aren't given the proper budget and timeline, and possibly over promising. We're seeing the market correct itself. MMORPGs are tough to develop and shouldn't be undertaken by every company. I believe it should be a smaller market so their careers are spent on games that are successful rather than the turnover we currently. 

    Players aren't patient, you're right. But should we be? Should buying games that are different than advertised be acceptable? I realize there are different sets of expectations among the player base, but keep your promises. We're not going to get better games until companies understand what we want. I think Kickstarter is a great model and could be used to develop a game more democratically; I feel that'd be the most successful. Unfortunately, it seems companies are learning what's wrong rather than what's right. They see their losses, their subscriptions drop, and see that they made a mistake. They see the've overreached. They're seeing the problem, they're acknowledging the problem, but not drafting a solution. Solutions cost money, far more than stoploss measures.

     

    I don't feel bad for these guys at all. When things go well (or even just average) they pull down fat bonuses and stock options. When things tank, they get the boot. That is just how the game works and even they know that. Plus, former CEOs of big companies are rarely unemployed for long.
  • BurntvetBurntvet Baltimore, MDPosts: 2,948Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Destai

    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Elikal  what did Bioware do? Did they take the good parts of SWG and expand on it? No, Bioware-EA did what they always do: they tossed EVERYTHING out of the window and started with their own absurd idea to shoehorn a SW MMO into their KOTOR concept.

    personally i found this past comment troubling pre-SWTOR release

     

    BioWare co-founder Greg Zeschuk 

    Feb 2011, a year before SWTOR released

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/02/10/bioware-wow-is-the-touchstone-for-the-old-republic/
    [World of Warcraft] is a touchstone. It has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb," Zeschuk said.

    I don't think he's necessarily wrong in this respect. Let's look at what WoW established.

    1. Open world, without loading between zones. 

    2. Group Finders to facilitate grouping between players.

    3. Cohesive class design where role was well defined

    4. Tiered crafting

    5. Mounts - both air and land

    6. Clean and moddable interface

    7. Content for hardcore and casual players alike

    For the amount of money that is invested in these games, you'd think some sort of standards agency would be developed. I think that a lot of upcoming games look at WoW on a superficial level - they see the graphics, the toolbar, the models, etc. and think that's what made it successful. That's not it. It brought people together. They polished their gem. However, not every developer has a diamond - some have tiger's eye or sapphires. My point is, make your game clean, fun, and accessible. Make it easy for people to get together and enjoy playing with each other. In my opinion, that's what made the phenomenon it was/is. The cultural factors or external factors can't be replicated. It might have just come out at the right time. 

     

    I think when people talk about the success of WoW, they often forget that "accessibility" was a key factor as well: Original WoW could basically run decently on a rock. So a person could hear about it and immediately pick up and play it, without having to worry if their hardware was up to the job. Very few other games could ever make that claim and some have been on the opposite side of that as well, to their determent (Launch EQ2 and Vanguard spring to mind). And that is outside of everything about gameplay: the most important bit was making something that the largest possible audience COULD play, and then everything else after.
  • olepiolepi Austin, TXPosts: 1,150Member Uncommon
    At that level, CEO, they care nothing about the game itself. They are running a business, and whether it's small steam turbines, or an MMO, matters not. Changing the person at the top will have little to no effect on any games.

    ------------
    RIP City of Heroes. One of my favorite MMO's.

  • DestaiDestai Detroit, MIPosts: 574Member
    Originally posted by Burntvet

    Originally posted by Destai

    Originally posted by Psychow
    I wonder how many more careers need to be destroyed before the gaming community is satisfied with their bloodlust...  

    It's sad to see this happen to people; it's a result of the companies not getting their requirements right. They're going after shallow features, aren't given the proper budget and timeline, and possibly over promising. We're seeing the market correct itself. MMORPGs are tough to develop and shouldn't be undertaken by every company. I believe it should be a smaller market so their careers are spent on games that are successful rather than the turnover we currently. 

    Players aren't patient, you're right. But should we be? Should buying games that are different than advertised be acceptable? I realize there are different sets of expectations among the player base, but keep your promises. We're not going to get better games until companies understand what we want. I think Kickstarter is a great model and could be used to develop a game more democratically; I feel that'd be the most successful. Unfortunately, it seems companies are learning what's wrong rather than what's right. They see their losses, their subscriptions drop, and see that they made a mistake. They see the've overreached. They're seeing the problem, they're acknowledging the problem, but not drafting a solution. Solutions cost money, far more than stoploss measures.

     

    I don't feel bad for these guys at all. When things go well (or even just average) they pull down fat bonuses and stock options. When things tank, they get the boot. That is just how the game works and even they know that. Plus, former CEOs of big companies are rarely unemployed for long.

     

    I'm not talking about the CEOs and what not. I feel sorry for the workers.
  • SteinarBSteinarB KristiansandPosts: 51Member Uncommon
    I'd like to be able to say "good riddance" and "he got what he deserved", but let's face it people:  He's laughing all the way to the bank considering the obscene amount of money he'll be leaving with for doing a piss-poor job.  Like every CEO or similarly powerful person in the business community it's not he who will have to suffer the consequences of his actions and decisions.  It's the people below him who lost jobs because of those decisions.  As for Riccitiello himself he'll be off with a full bank account and will probably have some cushy bigshot job lined up in some other company in short order if he wants it, like every other bigtime CEO in the world.  These people act and think the way they do because they can get away with it and let others suffer the consequences of their bad decisions every damn time.
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