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POLL: Cross faction coop and the effect on AvA and "Faction Pride"
rygard49
Member UncommonPosts: 973
Obviously the announced faction unlocks at level 50 is a hot topic amongst the PvP community. What do you all think, is faction pride dead now? Will this decision have no effect at all? Will faction pride have as big an effect on AvA as some think it will?
I heartily disagree with the decision to open up the borders at level 50. I feel that it was pandering, that it goes against the original design that attracted me to the game, and that it will undoubtedly have a negative effect on the faction pride they were seeking to foster. All for the sake of the PvE players.
However, I also don't think it necessarily destroys the potential for AvA to be great feature. It remains to be seen what the long term consequences of this decision will be.
Comments
It's great for RP's and PVE's, now we have two more fation areas to explore even though they are instanced versions. The PVP's can go there but only for PVE lol and they won't see the otrher faction.
PVE in other faction areas and our own fation area plus PVE in Cyrodiil = win for PVE's.
How is that great for Rpers? How do you explain being in the other factions lands and cities without having anyone from the other faction actually being there?
Agreed, it's a total win for stricly PvE players. But I think it comes with major consequences for the PvPers in the game, which is what we're talking about here.
Another concern is trash talk outside of Cyrodiil, which this feature now creates an opportunity for.
I don't have to explain anything when i go and adventure in the other Areas with my RP guild.
You will still have other faction NPC's which will be great as well, great times for RP's and PVE's.
Don't worry though, you still have Cyrodiil even though us PVE's can PVE there as well.
Good times ahead for TESO PVE/RP lol.
it also means that players won't be shoehorned into choosing a particular race either, if your guild for instance chooses to go ebonheart, and you feel that maybe a breton or whatever is the only race worth playing then at least in the end game, there won't be an issue with organising guild dungeon runs etc. imo too much is being made of this whole 'faction pride' thing, its not that big of a deal and a good many of those that benefit from the changes to end game PVE, probably wouldnt have gotten involved in the PVP anyway, that the game does have such inclusive gameplay is a huge positive factor, the PVP focused players might not like it too much, but its not really about the PVP, and i don't see how it can really change anything that happens in cyrodil, and while spying was mentioned, thats unlikely to happen, there are likely to be too many campaigns of cyrodill present for the odd player to have any impact, it even makes the concept of that happening slightly ludicrous tbh.
Elder Scrolls Online is, first and foremost, a PvE Elder Scrolls RPG.
I think that fact was in doubt for a while as they only were really telling us about AvA and the PvP sides of the game, but now that a lot more info is coming out on crafting and PvE and progression etc. I think it's abundantly clear that AvA is a secondary concern.
I had lost most interest in ESO because it was looking like it was going to be DAOC 2 with an ES skin, but now it is looking more and more like a "true" ES game - but online, and with PvP (AvA) added in a way that makes sense from a MMO perspective and from an ES perspective.
After all, if you are hardcore into AvA than you can CHOOSE to not finish the PvE content of your faction and you can CHOOSE to not associate yourself with the "enemy" outside of Cyrodiil.
Just like players who don't care so much for AvA can CHOOSE to ignore it completely and not be limited to only playing with 1/3 of the population.
Choice is good.
I'm sorry people who thought this game was going to be all AvA focused are getting a reality check - but if anything it gives me hope that Zenimax really DOES understand their audience, understand their fanbase, and understand Elder Scrolls.
What you SHOULD be asking for is a PvP Server Rule Set in which level 50's of the other Factions are immediately Flagged for PvP when they enter the opposing factions PvE regions.
I also think trash talk is a good thing - as long as the moderation and /report features are in place to punish those who take it too far (like in just about every competitive online game).
Really, pretty sure you mentioned PVE in your original post. Up until yesterdays news i was starting to get the impression that ZeniMax were treating PVE as an after thought. Let's face it, up until yesterday it was all about PVP and now it's not the PVP crowd don't like it.
Its encouraging that ESO will be more representative of TES in this way, that the game won't be primarily focused on the R v R PVP, is a good thing, as there will be plenty of players who really don't have any interest in the AvA thing going on in cyrodil, even the RP'ers are being catered for in this sense, its a shame that its only once you reach level 50, but at least now players are being given the choice, which is really what this was all about.
Marginally, and not as the main topic of discussion. Of course you're free to post off topic about how awesome this will be for PvE players in an effort to rile up the PvPers, but I'd prefer to at least try to keep the discussion on topic for a page or two before it devolves into that.
Do you have anything to contribute to whether or not faction pride will be affected?
Clearly the vast majority of voters have never played DAoC nor do they understand what faction pride means in a MMO.
It's okay, I can't fault you guys for it, but I can pitty the fact that you can't fathom the concept and understand how crippling it really is to lack it in a game.
I disagree with that. I think AvA still has the potential to be an awesome, major draw to this title. I don't feel it's an afterthought at all. Rather I feel that pressures from PvE players have forced them to change their original design intent.
I think facton pride is taking a back seat to PvE content. They should just take out the factions all together and open up the game to PvE only.
That makes no sense. [mod edit]
How is it NOT an immersion breaker to be in previously faction locked lands without the threat of an opposing faction?
Are we in bizzaro world here or something?
That's a much better alternative to what we are hearing now. And obviously far more IP accurate.
I'm with you there. If it's going to open up, just open it up entirely from level 1.
Here's a good question I'd love the supporters to answer.
Why does TESO have faction locks at all?
They made up some BS story about a three faction war that never happened in ES lore. They grouped up racial enemies to fit the BS story. They locked faction zones and communication. Then they unlock it at level cap and allow players access to once locked areas? How does that make any sense? AND you can now group and communicate with your enemies? Oh yeah, but only in an instance with zero threat of opposing force in OPPOSING lands.
Why have locks at all? Unlock everything. Allow players to choose their race and starting area. Revamp the new player experience and disband factions. Create three factions based on ES lore and allow your players to freely choose between any of them. Now your IP fanatics are happy, your PvP'ers don't have some BS story that means nothing, your PvE'ers get what they want, and in the end of it all, IT ALL MAKES SENSE.
Oh look. I'm not a game developer, but I just thought of a drastically better idea off the TOP OF MY HEAD.
True, we all just want another PvE game to burn through for a couple months anyway. Why even put AvA in now since nobody wants it anyway.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Hey i would gladly take that option and bring back normal servers but the fact is it's not going to happen, it's pointless even mentioning it. As it is now, i'm happy to be able to PVE in the other faction areas after all the PVP's still have Cyrodiil. Seeing other faction NPC's and leaders on my Khajiit will be great especially while two-boxing and RPing.
People are still playing Skyrim and even Oblivion. Those are single player games. If they did it right from the beginning, you could easily waste years of time in TESO.
Faction Pride left the building in the early 2000s.
Dont expect it to come back big time.
The times they are a-changing.
Looks like it is pretty much going to be a single player game anyway.
Faction locks create a primal 'Us vs Them' mentality which translates well for large scale pvp. It puts emotion into your choice of race, and pride when you see your faction doing well. You see this in every faction based game from WoW to Rift to DAoC. People in the WoW community wear their faction logos outside the game as badges of pride.
Having free, open factions doesn't really create that same mentality or pride. It makes the aggressing faction's actions less egregious when you might be grouping together later.
Having said that, with the current design announcements I feel that they might as well do what you detailed above and be better off for it. Faction locking is an all or nothing type of design feature, and changing it at any level compeletely devalues it.
How about an alternate solution? Do what has been done by many MMO's in the past. Let's use WoW for example. You can go to enemy lands, but you can't attack others unless they attack you first. Also, only in contested zones. This allows you to travel there, see opposing players and NPC's, and also allows you to quest there via frontier land NPC's in outposts or on PvP border towns.
Oh wow, solution found. Again, off the top of my head. It's been done in other games, why not this one? It would make everyone happy and AGAIN, it would make sense.
Are there not stormclaok and Imperial camps littered in enemy territory in Skyrim? Yes there are. I mean, it's right there for the taking, how can they miss what is so obvious?