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Lack of trinity

paulocafallipaulocafalli Sampa, CAPosts: 256Member

Not worth it.

 

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Comments

  • zimboy69zimboy69 chicargo, FLPosts: 376Member Uncommon
    Thanks for that insight,  we shall all take on board your arguments and   adopt them in the future .

    image

  • DakeruDakeru Posts: 1,649Member Uncommon

    I'm glad that 6 months after the release you figured out that there is no trinity.

    Thanks for informing us.

    I have an entitlement delusion - because I have this strange idea that my 50$ should have the same value as anyone else's 50$
    "Your account is not entitled to the same value as a new account. Just saying you are entitled to the same as someone else because you said so is exactly what expresses your entitlement issues."

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,818Member Uncommon
    Lets see:
    Damage - check
    Healing - check
    Damage mitigation - check

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • ImperialSunImperialSun WorcesterPosts: 212Member

     

    Everyone knows GW2 has a trinity system, Anet simply renamed it to damage / defense / control or whatever so they could market it back to you as an innovative product with no "trinity".....

    See how that worked out?

    I thought GW2 was supposed to revolutionise the genre and stomp all competitors into the dust...whereas in reality the game turned out to be en exercise in making a mediocre themepark and abandoning / backtracking on almost every aspect of the original charter that Anet pledged to its fanbase.

    I hear D3 has more players than GW2 these days...

    /shrug

    Driz

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Isn't Trinity that chick from Matrix?

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • ImperialSunImperialSun WorcesterPosts: 212Member
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Lets see:
    Damage - check
    Healing - check
    Damage mitigation - check

     

     

    Total Annihilation - Now there is a decent game.

    Still got my retail boxed copy at home :)

    Driz

  • WellzyCWellzyC Stillwater, MNPosts: 557Member Uncommon

     

    Short and sweet, but I totally agree. Back when I heard about GW2's no trinity approach I was intrigued. But after seeing first hand how the trinity makes for great group cooperation and content, i find that non trinity dungeons are down right sad and boring.

     

    I will never betray you again Holy Trinity... I am sorry plz take me back..

    The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.

    The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...


    www.CeaselessGuild.com

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter BristolPosts: 2,818Member Uncommon
    I don't know how anyone know how many players D3 has.
    In fact blogs like kill ten rats noticed how populated Gw2 is currently.
    More Anet is introducing changes to reduce number of players at the big chest events.
    The game is over 6 months - no server merges, no layoffs, no power introduced in the gameshop, etc.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member

    The real problem with the "lack of trinity" isn't the lack of trinity itself, it's people being incapable of realizing that the various aspects of the GW2 "trinity" (damage, control, support) are spread onto the skills themselves instead of set roles for a player. Skills usually have multiple aspects, for example offering a damage and control element, which make them work better when used situationally as opposed to the archaic "spam off cooldown" the old trinity based games use. (Ah, the good old rotations from my WoW hunter days... train the fingers, turn off the brain. Sigh...) Combat of this nature now requires a mixture of forethought (if I open with Great Sword 4 on my mesmer, I establish control with the crippling element, but I need to make sure he doesn't have aegis up for example...) as well as a situational awareness for the battle (my ally is about to get overrun, use GS4 on the foe chasing him for the cripple (maybe the kill if low health) and possible chase with shatter 3 for the interrupt). 

     

    You're not a tank, a healer or a pure dps anymore. You need to be aware of what's happening and react accordingly for best results. Granted, the archaic playstyle will get you through low level PvE, but as things progress better play will always trump all. 

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • JasonJJasonJ New Port Richey, FLPosts: 395Member
    Originally posted by paulocafalli

    Not worth it.

     

     I forgive your lack of skill and will continue playing because I had enough to learn how to play.

  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,605Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by ImperialSun
     Everyone knows GW2 has a trinity system, Anet simply renamed it to damage / defense / control or whatever so they could market it back to you as an innovative product with no "trinity".....See how that worked out?I thought GW2 was supposed to revolutionise the genre and stomp all competitors into the dust...whereas in reality the game turned out to be en exercise in making a mediocre themepark and abandoning / backtracking on almost every aspect of the original charter that Anet pledged to its fanbase.I hear D3 has more players than GW2 these days.../shrugDriz
    ArenaNet said GW2s trinity was supposed to be damage/support/control.

    But, its not actually a trinity. A trinity is 3 separate but equal bodies that must work together because they can not work with one missing.

    Kinda like a Three Musketeers "All for one and one for all" deal.

    But in GW2 you dont need Control or Support and they are not equally represented in the game's combat as Damage.

    Yeah, heals from an Elementalist or blinds from a Thief are nice but not necessary for success.


    So, in conclusion, Guild Wars 2 does not have a trinity system because ArenaNet failed to implement the trinity system they said GW2 was going to have and as the OP stated, it is "not worth it".

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

    ArenaNet said GW2s trinity was supposed to be damage/support/control.

     

    But, its not actually a trinity. A trinity is 3 separate but equal bodies that must work together because they can not work with one missing.

    Kinda like a Three Musketeers "All for one and one for all" deal.

    But in GW2 you dont need Control or Support and they are not equally represented in the game's combat as Damage.

    Yeah, heals from an Elementalist or blinds from a Thief are nice but not necessary for success.


    So, in conclusion, Guild Wars 2 does not have a trinity system because ArenaNet failed to implement the trinity system they said GW2 was going to have and as the OP stated, it is "not worth it".

    Well that's a big steaming pile of poo right there. That may resemble something remotely true in the newbie zones, but if you fail to utilize your support and especially control abiliities later in the game you'll be nothing more than one of those people I'm reviving to help get my daily done. 

     

    Anyone here WvW with an engineer? Mine is only level 33 and I'm already seeing how invaluable they can be when flipping to the elixer gun. Great support abilities there. Then flipping between rifle and flamefthrower for both the damage and control aspects... it's turning out to be a very active profession which is surprising seeing how so many posts were out there about how bad the engineer is (which is the reason I'm giving one a try). 

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,924Member Uncommon
    Yes, we all know. They attempted to break the trinity and it failed quite badly, even spawning on a less refined 'trinity' to make it 'hurt less' so to speak. Its silly to post such a small post thats been covered in much more detail in other threads why not having a trinity was executed quite poorly in Guildwars 2 and why it emphasizes that, while flexible if done right, the trinity itself is a vital part in both making group play more dynamic while also providing different playstyles for the player. Rather then try to toss it out, it would of went a long way to instead manipulate it down further into its more 'primative' form and work with it from there.
  • WellzyCWellzyC Stillwater, MNPosts: 557Member Uncommon

    Control? what control?  

     

    you mean the half second stun, or kockdown?  no tanking and no cc, im not seeing any mob controling here.

     

     

    The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.

    The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...


    www.CeaselessGuild.com

  • Vunak23Vunak23 In your house eatin'' your cookies, FLPosts: 635Member
    I dont like the game, as my post history would show... But pointing out obvious things about the game, that everyone knows and then complain about it... Seriously. If you know you wont like not having he trinity then don't buy it. 

    "In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

  • birdycephonbirdycephon Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 1,314Member
    Im a big fan of healing classes, so a lack thereof is a little disappointing.
  • DakeruDakeru Posts: 1,649Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by WellzyC

    Control? what control?  

     

    you mean the half second stun, or kockdown?  no tanking and no cc, im not seeing any mob controling here.

     

     

    There is this thing called elite skill.

    Necromancer for example can blind all mobs in a large aoe field for 20 seconds.

    Warrior can get into rampage mode and cause this 3 second knockdown over and over again.

    I've seen countless times how our norn tank would change into werewolf shape to hold agro on the boss.

     

    I think you just never bothered using elite and condition based skills while being in a group.

    I have an entitlement delusion - because I have this strange idea that my 50$ should have the same value as anyone else's 50$
    "Your account is not entitled to the same value as a new account. Just saying you are entitled to the same as someone else because you said so is exactly what expresses your entitlement issues."

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by WellzyC

    Control? what control?  

     

    you mean the half second stun, or kockdown?  no tanking and no cc, im not seeing any mob controling here.

     

     

    Stuns, knockbacks, knockdowns, cripples, chills, etc. There are plenty of controls. If you need more than a couple seconds of a slowed opponent then maybe you need to work a little more on the movement aspect of combat in GW2. You can easily move out of range in a few seconds. The five or six seconds of AoE cripples mesmer GS4 gives you provide plenty of time to create the distance you want.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • SteeJanzSteeJanz Gladstone, MOPosts: 332Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Volkon
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

    ArenaNet said GW2s trinity was supposed to be damage/support/control.

     

    But, its not actually a trinity. A trinity is 3 separate but equal bodies that must work together because they can not work with one missing.

    Kinda like a Three Musketeers "All for one and one for all" deal.

    But in GW2 you dont need Control or Support and they are not equally represented in the game's combat as Damage.

    Yeah, heals from an Elementalist or blinds from a Thief are nice but not necessary for success.


    So, in conclusion, Guild Wars 2 does not have a trinity system because ArenaNet failed to implement the trinity system they said GW2 was going to have and as the OP stated, it is "not worth it".

    Well that's a big steaming pile of poo right there. That may resemble something remotely true in the newbie zones, but if you fail to utilize your support and especially control abiliities later in the game you'll be nothing more than one of those people I'm reviving to help get my daily done. 

     

    Anyone here WvW with an engineer? Mine is only level 33 and I'm already seeing how invaluable they can be when flipping to the elixer gun. Great support abilities there. Then flipping between rifle and flamefthrower for both the damage and control aspects... it's turning out to be a very active profession which is surprising seeing how so many posts were out there about how bad the engineer is (which is the reason I'm giving one a try). 

    Yes.  I don't do a ton of WvW but I run alot of dungeons with mine.  The Elixir gun is always on my bar, its just too valuable a support tool to not have it.  Like all games, you learn to do things effectively.  When I first started running dungeons, I would drop #5 Super Elixir and think to myself, get in the field it will help you removed conditions and give you regen.  It never worked out well because people just didn't notice and didnt recognize the value of field on the ground.  Now I mainly use it for melee and condition remover for the group.  Now I place it on the boss so that it helps melee and all range still get the condition remover.  The combo fields provide a level of cooperation most people aren't used to.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by SteeJanz

    Originally posted by Volkon
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

    ArenaNet said GW2s trinity was supposed to be damage/support/control.
      But, its not actually a trinity. A trinity is 3 separate but equal bodies that must work together because they can not work with one missing. Kinda like a Three Musketeers "All for one and one for all" deal. But in GW2 you dont need Control or Support and they are not equally represented in the game's combat as Damage. Yeah, heals from an Elementalist or blinds from a Thief are nice but not necessary for success.
    So, in conclusion, Guild Wars 2 does not have a trinity system because ArenaNet failed to implement the trinity system they said GW2 was going to have and as the OP stated, it is "not worth it".

    Well that's a big steaming pile of poo right there. That may resemble something remotely true in the newbie zones, but if you fail to utilize your support and especially control abiliities later in the game you'll be nothing more than one of those people I'm reviving to help get my daily done. 

     

    Anyone here WvW with an engineer? Mine is only level 33 and I'm already seeing how invaluable they can be when flipping to the elixer gun. Great support abilities there. Then flipping between rifle and flamefthrower for both the damage and control aspects... it's turning out to be a very active profession which is surprising seeing how so many posts were out there about how bad the engineer is (which is the reason I'm giving one a try). 

    Yes.  I don't do a ton of WvW but I run alot of dungeons with mine.  The Elixir gun is always on my bar, its just too valuable a support tool to not have it.  Like all games, you learn to do things effectively.  When I first started running dungeons, I would drop #5 Super Elixir and think to myself, get in the field it will help you removed conditions and give you regen.  It never worked out well because people just didn't notice and didnt recognize the value of field on the ground.  Now I mainly use it for melee and condition remover for the group.  Now I place it on the boss so that it helps melee and all range still get the condition remover.  The combo fields provide a level of cooperation most people aren't used to.

     

    yea combination of combo field effects and the skills classes are given offer all the control you need... Issue is combo field control requires decent cooperation and knowing the fields which many aren't used to..my mesmer can keep a group almost perma crippled with GS and focus on the other set and one trait

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • AIMonsterAIMonster Apopka, FLPosts: 2,059Member

    Damage is not the trinity.  Damage was never required to complete content in old school MMOs.  There was no such thing as enrage timers.  The original trinity is Crowd Control / Healing / Tank.  Since you can't really CC bosses well in Guild Wars 2 due to defiant stacks, the CC aspect is non-existent.

    As far as PvE goes the real trinity is Mesmer / Guardian / Warrior (Ele can fit somewhere in there too I guess).  No reason to bring any other professions to dungeons.  Guardian + Ele teams can complete post 50 fractals while other professions struggle.  Warriors stacking with a Mesmer is all you need for speed runs.  Considering that Warriors can solo what is suppose to be the hardest dungeon in the game with full berserker gear you know something is wrong with PvE  Necros don't bring anything to the table in PvE.  At least the WvW / SPvP scene is a bit more balanced.  When the top PvE classes scale so well off criticals from Berserker gear there is no reason to wear anything other than that.

    You can be the primary healer in your group (either as a Staff Guardian, an Ele, or a combination of a Ranger + Blast Finisher user like a Guardian, Warrior, or Thief) and you can be the primary tank for your group due to the way aggro works (Rangers, Warriors, and Guardians fill this role well), though it's not necessary like the Trinity is in other games since there are multiple ways to get through PvE encounters.  Most higher end groups are either going to throw massive damage at something before it outputs enough damage back (in "dungeons") or hide behind reflect wall spam while throwing out massive damage (in "fractals).

    Honestly, the PvE is pretty disappointing to me and I'm now sitting at a very high Fractal level and have had Dungeon Master since month 1 and finished the repeatable Hobby Dungeon Explorer tier about 10 times now.  The champions I've fought from Guild Bounty are more interesting than the dungeon bosses (minus Lupicus and Arch Diviner in Collosus fractal), but ultimately you can just zerg them down since there is no restrictions on waypointing back outside of dungeons.  I was all in favor of not having "raiding" before, but GW2 has made me miss it because I'm really just left with a lack of things to do.

    So I don't think it's fair to blame the lack of trinity (even though it still exists to an extent).  The PvE is just poorly designed at the moment.  They should have went with more WoW esque heavily scripted encounters with multiple phases than these single mechanic tank and spank fights that currently exist.

    image

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  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by SteeJanz

    Yes.  I don't do a ton of WvW but I run alot of dungeons with mine.  The Elixir gun is always on my bar, its just too valuable a support tool to not have it.  Like all games, you learn to do things effectively.  When I first started running dungeons, I would drop #5 Super Elixir and think to myself, get in the field it will help you removed conditions and give you regen.  It never worked out well because people just didn't notice and didnt recognize the value of field on the ground.  Now I mainly use it for melee and condition remover for the group.  Now I place it on the boss so that it helps melee and all range still get the condition remover.  The combo fields provide a level of cooperation most people aren't used to.

     

    I have noticed that elixer gun 5 is better used when shot where they are as opposed to where I think they should be. image  But, at my low level still, the ability to swap from the elixer to the flame thrower (because it's cool) to the rifle... it adds so much versatility that I can't see ever allowing myself to get pigeonholed into an archaic role-based combat system again. As much as I enjoyed my pally tank and MM hunter back in the Lich King era... never again.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by Magnum2103

    Damage is not the trinity.  Damage was never required to complete content in old school MMOs.  There was no such thing as enrage timers.  The original trinity is Crowd Control / Healing / Tank.  Since you can't really CC bosses well in Guild Wars 2 due to defiant stacks, the CC aspect is non-existent.

    As far as PvE goes the real trinity is Mesmer / Guardian / Warrior (Ele can fit somewhere in there too I guess).  No reason to bring any other professions to dungeons.  Guardian + Ele teams can complete post 50 fractals while other professions struggle.  Warriors stacking with a Mesmer is all you need for speed runs.  Considering that Warriors can solo what is suppose to be the hardest dungeon in the game with full berserker gear you know something is wrong with PvE  Necros don't bring anything to the table in PvE.  At least the WvW / SPvP scene is a bit more balanced.  When the top PvE classes scale so well off criticals from Berserker gear there is no reason to wear anything other than that.

    You can be the primary healer in your group (either as a Staff Guardian, an Ele, or a combination of a Ranger + Blast Finisher user like a Guardian, Warrior, or Thief) and you can be the primary tank for your group due to the way aggro works (Rangers, Warriors, and Guardians fill this role well), though it's not necessary like the Trinity is in other games since there are multiple ways to get through PvE encounters.  Most higher end groups are either going to throw massive damage at something before it outputs enough damage back (in "dungeons") or hide behind reflect wall spam while throwing out massive damage (in "fractals).

    Honestly, the PvE is pretty disappointing to me and I'm now sitting at a very high Fractal level and have had Dungeon Master since month 1 and finished the repeatable Hobby Dungeon Explorer tier about 10 times now.  The champions I've fought from Guild Bounty are more interesting than the dungeon bosses (minus Lupicus and Arch Diviner in Collosus fractal), but ultimately you can just zerg them down since there is no restrictions on waypointing back outside of dungeons.  I was all in favor of not having "raiding" before, but GW2 has made me miss it because I'm really just left with a lack of things to do.

    So I don't think it's fair to blame the lack of trinity (even though it still exists to an extent).  The PvE is just poorly designed at the moment.  They should have went with more WoW esque heavily scripted encounters with multiple phases than these single mechanic tank and spank fights that currently exist.

     

    You leave out a lot. While some people prefer the groups you mention above, the fact is that any mix of professions still works. Maybe not as fast, but they all still work fine. 

     

    Oh... I think they fixed it so you can't go past 50 in Fractals anymore...

     

    You also forget one of the main strengths of the mesmers... versatillity. Being able to effectively dip into the full d/c/s makes them an incredibly flexible profession. I know some people love Time Warp, but turning that end boss guy in the Flame Legion Fractal into a giant chicken still makes me giggle. (I think that's the one... been a bit thanks to a WvW addiction...)

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Volkon

    Originally posted by SteeJanz Yes.  I don't do a ton of WvW but I run alot of dungeons with mine.  The Elixir gun is always on my bar, its just too valuable a support tool to not have it.  Like all games, you learn to do things effectively.  When I first started running dungeons, I would drop #5 Super Elixir and think to myself, get in the field it will help you removed conditions and give you regen.  It never worked out well because people just didn't notice and didnt recognize the value of field on the ground.  Now I mainly use it for melee and condition remover for the group.  Now I place it on the boss so that it helps melee and all range still get the condition remover.  The combo fields provide a level of cooperation most people aren't used to.

     

    I have noticed that elixer gun 5 is better used when shot where they are as opposed to where I think they should be. image  But, at my low level still, the ability to swap from the elixer to the flame thrower (because it's cool) to the rifle... it adds so much versatility that I can't see ever allowing myself to get pigeonholed into an archaic role-based combat system again. As much as I enjoyed my pally tank and MM hunter back in the Lich King era... never again.

     

    yea same..tried to get into tera again but can't get past the limited versatility in the classes/skills..played slayer to 30 and you have no real way to change how you play the class.. I like choices which is why I enjoyed rift since you had flexibility to play numerous roles and which is why I enjoy gw2 plenty of ways to play any class which keeps me interested

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • simmihisimmihi -Posts: 613Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Magnum2103

     

    As far as PvE goes the real trinity is Mesmer / Guardian / Warrior (Ele can fit somewhere in there too I guess).  No reason to bring any other professions to dungeons.  Guardian + Ele teams can complete post 50 fractals while other professions struggle.  Warriors stacking with a Mesmer is all you need for speed runs.  Considering that Warriors can solo what is suppose to be the hardest dungeon in the game with full berserker gear you know something is wrong with PvE  Necros don't bring anything to the table in PvE.  At least the WvW / SPvP scene is a bit more balanced.  When the top PvE classes scale so well off criticals from Berserker gear there is no reason to wear anything other than that.

    Absolutely spot on. Despite of a great first impression, didn't take me much to realise that only 2-3 classes in some specific specs and specific gea are viable. Pretty terrible.

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