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We want full open world, not instanced! And first post!

evemaster00evemaster00 LondonPosts: 171Member

We want full open world, not instanced!

Why does richard garriot think ex UO players want anything less than an actual WORLD where all players are able to interact with each other? Be it for good, or for bad. It's the ups and downs that makes for the best experience.

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Comments

  • taziartaziar Hollywood, FLPosts: 52Member
    You are assuming he is only creating the game for UO players.  There were NINE single player games in the Ultima series.  
  • taus01taus01 MunichPosts: 1,352Member
    Originally posted by evemaster00

    We want full open world, not instanced!

    Why does richard garriot think ex UO players want anything less than an actual WORLD where all players are able to interact with each other? Be it for good, or for bad. It's the ups and downs that makes for the best experience.

    The whole Kickstarter looks to me like an attempt to jump on the bandwagon and get some easy cash. I am puzzled by the design decisions and the lack of vision. It is not even an mmo, its more of the facebook generation pseudo online games we have seen in recent years. Lobby or world map with instanced multiplayer but mostly made for solo play.

    I am disappointed Lord British!

    "Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

    image
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,546Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by taus01
    Originally posted by evemaster00

    We want full open world, not instanced!

    Why does richard garriot think ex UO players want anything less than an actual WORLD where all players are able to interact with each other? Be it for good, or for bad. It's the ups and downs that makes for the best experience.

    The whole Kickstarter looks to me like an attempt to jump on the bandwagon and get some easy cash. I am puzzled by the design decisions and the lack of vision. It is not even an mmo, its more of the facebook generation pseudo online games we have seen in recent years. Lobby or world map with instanced multiplayer but mostly made for solo play.

    I am disappointed Lord British!

    You have no proof of that (the instanced world / facebook game). The early videos available are definitely not from a facebook game.

    Even though I thought I'd never do that, I invested $33 in the project. Would it be anyone else, I wouldn't have given a cent. Because even if it's just what you say, if it's even just remotely good as the old Ultima Games (not UO) it will be worth playing.

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,533Member Uncommon

    This is not a MMORPG...

    ****

    Will this be a MMO? Can I play with my friends?

    Yes, you will be able to play with your friends!  Multiplayer games encourage social bonds that go far beyond what can be accomplished in a solo player game. I remember the depth of these bonds in players who met in-game only to get married in real life, how people who died in the real world were deeply mourned and celebrated by their online friends whom they may never have met face to face. Though Shroud of the Avatar won’t be a massively multiplayer online role playing game, it will be a multiplayer game.  We will be describing this in more detail in our upcoming community blogs.

     

    Single Player Online (SPO)
    In the SPO mode you connect to the server, receive content updates, and can see the long term changes others are having on the world.  However, you are not visible on anyone else’s screen, nor for grouping, and you don’t see anyone else in the world.  You can switch from SPO to FPO or OPO modes whenever you like while in a city or overland map.  Some parts of the main storyline quests may temporarily force the player into SPO mode for some parts of the quest.

    Friends Play Online (FPO)
    In friends play online, you only see people you have flagged as friends in the game and only they can see you.  Like single player, this is just a server side filter.  For those who prefer the quieter game with friends or maybe for those who prefer a more focused role playing experience, this lets you enjoy a more limited online experience. You can switch to SPO or OPO modes whenever you like while in a city or in the overland map.

    Open Play Online (OPO)
    In OPO players will see everyone that the server thinks they should see.  This will not necessarily be all people in the area but should be people you care the most about based on what we believe is their relevance to you.

    ****

     

    Its an RPG with a couple of different multiplayer options...

     

    So no this is not UO 2, think of it more as a continuation of the origional ultima games.

     

     

     

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,205Member Uncommon

    I like the idea of FPO, SPO, OPO modes.

    I'm an Ultima fan, not a UO player so I don't really care about the OPs demand.  His worlds were always interesting to me before so I'll see what he's cooking up this time.

  • winterwinter El Paso, TXPosts: 2,276Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by evemaster00

    We want full open world, not instanced!

    Why does richard garriot think ex UO players want anything less than an actual WORLD where all players are able to interact with each other? Be it for good, or for bad. It's the ups and downs that makes for the best experience.

     No, no we don't. Don't pretend to speak for everyone as you don't.

    What we want is a fun playable game ie relatively lag free. Not a game where theres a 100 people in one small area with 20 idiots dancing on a mail box and enough lag, and rubber banding that its takes 10 mins to do a 1 min walk or task.. Not a game where you have to wait in line behind several other groups to finally kill a boss mob, and certainly not not a game that while you and your guild group are exploring that secret lost ruin your group has monster trains running by every 5 mins like grand central station because some players either can't get groups of their own or just like griefing groups

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by evemaster00

    We want full open world, not instanced!

    Why does richard garriot think ex UO players want anything less than an actual WORLD where all players are able to interact with each other? Be it for good, or for bad. It's the ups and downs that makes for the best experience.

    I think Richard Garriot has lost his way. He used to be an innovator but now he seems to just be an imitator so I dont expect much from this game. Guy is a "has been".

  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,533Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by evemaster00

    We want full open world, not instanced!

    Why does richard garriot think ex UO players want anything less than an actual WORLD where all players are able to interact with each other? Be it for good, or for bad. It's the ups and downs that makes for the best experience.

    I think Richard Garriot has lost his way. He used to be an innovator but now he seems to just be an imitator so I dont expect much from this game. Guy is a "has been".

    wait there what is this game imitating ? I dont re-call playing game that has these kind of features...

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,546Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Caldrin

    So no this is not UO 2, think of it more as a continuation of the origional ultima games.

    Yup, a continuation of the original Ultima games with multiplayer/MMORPG features.

    Sounds excellent to me. And the idea of having single/multi/MMO play style in the same world sounds intriguing to me too. Some days I just don't feel like dealing with the usual MMO kiddie crowd, some others I just want to have fun with friends and some others I want to enjoy a full open MMO world - looks like 3 packages into one here.

    [mod edit]

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by Caldrin
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Originally posted by evemaster00

    We want full open world, not instanced!

    Why does richard garriot think ex UO players want anything less than an actual WORLD where all players are able to interact with each other? Be it for good, or for bad. It's the ups and downs that makes for the best experience.

    I think Richard Garriot has lost his way. He used to be an innovator but now he seems to just be an imitator so I dont expect much from this game. Guy is a "has been".

    wait there what is this game imitating ? I dont re-call playing game that has these kind of features...

    Well imitator is maybe not the correct word but he does seem to have given up on MMOs and not trying to create a sucessor of UO but rather a single/lmited multiplayer game. And that is going backwards, from UO, not forwards.

  • JasonJJasonJ New Port Richey, FLPosts: 395Member
    Originally posted by taziar
    You are assuming he is only creating the game for UO players.  There were NINE single player games in the Ultima series.  

     Funny thing about those nine games was that they were all open world too!

    Anyway, I find it odd that a lot of the people defending TESO for not being like TES is that one is an MMO and the others are single player games yet they are also here arguing the opposite...

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,546Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JasonJ
    Originally posted by taziar
    You are assuming he is only creating the game for UO players.  There were NINE single player games in the Ultima series.  

     Funny thing about those nine games was that they were all open world too!

    It has yet to be proved that SotA will not be open world. Nothing in what has been said hints otherwise.

    The fact that you'll be able to experience the world solo, small group or full open doesn't make it less open, it will just make people able to choose their favorite way to experience it. The limit remains the highest level, which is full open world here.

    The only kind of players I could see annoyed with that are the open world PvP gankers, but Richard Garriot learned not to care about that whining minority like 12 years ago. For everyone else, being able to choose your way of playing the game each time you log in is definitely a positive point.

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • OnigodOnigod Noord-HollandPosts: 688Member

    What are open worlds?

     

    Companies have lost the meaning of it.. they will promote something as an open world yet have 50 different channels/hubs on that same world.

     

    I cant play any game that uses channels.  if i play on a server i want to see everyone playing on that server in my world.  playing a mmorpg is meaningless if you will never see any of the players again that you just played with. on top of that communities always suck in these type of games.  it doesnt matter what you do it cant be used against u since the people you said/did it to will never be seen again.

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,546Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yamota

    Well imitator is maybe not the correct word but he does seem to have given up on MMOs and not trying to create a sucessor of UO but rather a single/lmited multiplayer game. And that is going backwards, from UO, not forwards.

    Many out there may think that not catering to people like you may be a step forward. Your argument works two ways. Don't pretend you hold the ultimate truth - apparently most of the MMOs you disliked in the past are still doing just fine without you.

    What you want is not the only possible way to do things - and definitely not the best success wise. But I wonder why I'm trying to explain that, considering your post history of intolerance towards any game that doesn't fit your precise rules of what a MMORPG should be.

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by Yamota

    Well imitator is maybe not the correct word but he does seem to have given up on MMOs and not trying to create a sucessor of UO but rather a single/lmited multiplayer game. And that is going backwards, from UO, not forwards.

    Many out there may think that not catering to people like you may be a step forward. Your argument works two ways. Don't pretend you hold the ultimate truth - apparently most of the MMOs you disliked in the past are still doing just fine without you.

    What you want is not the only possible way to do things - and definitely not the best success wise. But I wonder why I'm trying to explain that, considering your post history of intolerance towards any game that doesn't fit your precise rules of what a MMORPG should be.

    You are making arguments which are not part of the discussion here. I am talking about working on UO and creating a successor for it. Obviously a non MMO would not be that and I dont see how my post history has anything to do with the fact that this guy did create the grandfathers of sandbox MMOs and it would make sense to build on that.

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,546Member Uncommon
    • Fully Interactive World | Everything is interactive in one way or another.
    • Classless Character System | You won't be limited to any class, but instead will really be able to craft your own class.
    • Extensive Player Housing | There are several types of housing that will serve different purposes all together.
    Sounds a lot like UO to me so far.
     
    I don't expect Richard Garriot to repeat the MISTAKES he made in UO - notably forcing FFA PvP on everybody, something they had to revert with Trammel in order to stop the player bleeding. While this won't be pre-trammel UO made 3D, which would be doomed to failure (we all know how well FFA PvP games fare... very badly), it definitely takes root in the Ultima Games including UO.

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,657Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by taus01
    Originally posted by evemaster00

    We want full open world, not instanced!

    Why does richard garriot think ex UO players want anything less than an actual WORLD where all players are able to interact with each other? Be it for good, or for bad. It's the ups and downs that makes for the best experience.

    The whole Kickstarter looks to me like an attempt to jump on the bandwagon and get some easy cash. I am puzzled by the design decisions and the lack of vision. It is not even an mmo, its more of the facebook generation pseudo online games we have seen in recent years. Lobby or world map with instanced multiplayer but mostly made for solo play.

    I am disappointed Lord British!

    You're puzzled because it doesn't fit the MMO mold. Hopefully this clears things up for you:

     

    It's not an MMO.  It's a singleplayer/multiplayer RPG.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by taziar
    You are assuming he is only creating the game for UO players.  There were NINE single player games in the Ultima series.  

    Well if only he would be catering to either UO or the single player game fans. Instead, it seems to be some kind of hybrid with the boredom of MMOs and the social aspects of a facebook game.

     

  • JasonJJasonJ New Port Richey, FLPosts: 395Member
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    • Fully Interactive World | Everything is interactive in one way or another.
    • Classless Character System | You won't be limited to any class, but instead will really be able to craft your own class.
    • Extensive Player Housing | There are several types of housing that will serve different purposes all together.
    Sounds a lot like UO to me so far.
     
    I don't expect Richard Garriot to repeat the MISTAKES he made in UO - notably forcing FFA PvP on everybody, something they had to revert with Trammel in order to stop the player bleeding. While this won't be pre-trammel UO made 3D, which would be doomed to failure (we all know how well FFA PvP games fare... very badly), it definitely takes root in the Ultima Games including UO.

     What does FFA PvP have to do with this? He is talking about having an OPEN world, not an instanced one...and few UO players would say FFA PvP was a bad idea...as for your comment about FFA games failing...I find that rather amusing seeing the popularity of FFA games in Asia topping all but WoW in he west. Nexon and NCsoft became the powerhouses they are today based on FFA games. But I do thank you for the red herring which has nothing to do with the topic.

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,546Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by taus01
    Originally posted by evemaster00

    We want full open world, not instanced!

    Why does richard garriot think ex UO players want anything less than an actual WORLD where all players are able to interact with each other? Be it for good, or for bad. It's the ups and downs that makes for the best experience.

    The whole Kickstarter looks to me like an attempt to jump on the bandwagon and get some easy cash. I am puzzled by the design decisions and the lack of vision. It is not even an mmo, its more of the facebook generation pseudo online games we have seen in recent years. Lobby or world map with instanced multiplayer but mostly made for solo play.

    I am disappointed Lord British!

    You're puzzled because it doesn't fit the MMO mold. Hopefully this clears things up for you:

     

    It's not an MMO.  It's a singleplayer/multiplayer RPG.

     

    From what I understood, there are three modes to play this game:

    - Single player RPG, very similar to the old Ultima series games.

    - Multiplayer cooperative, like Neverwinter Nights or Guild Wars.

    - MMORPG, like... well, a MMORPG, in a shared world with thousands of strangers.

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,546Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JasonJ

     What does FFA PvP have to do with this? He is talking about having an OPEN world, not an instanced one...and few UO players would say FFA PvP was a bad idea...as for your comment about FFA games failing...I find that rather amusing seeing the popularity of FFA games in Asia topping all but WoW in he west. Nexon and NCsoft became the powerhouses they are today based on FFA games. But I do thank you for the red herring which has nothing to do with the topic.

    The majority of UO players would say FORCED FFA PvP was a bad idea. It worked while there was no concurence, before Everquest was released. Then, the majority of UO players realized they could play another game (EQ), where they weren't looted dry by psychopaths and their maxed out characters each time they left town safety. Why do you think they patched in Trammel? FFA PvP is ok, as long as it's the player's choice. As I said, I seriously doubt Garriot will make the same mistake twice.

    And Asian games are irrelevant here. We're not in Asia. There's not a single FFA PvP game which is succesfull worldwide, and definitely not in the west. And before you say "EvE", EvE is not a FFA PvP game.

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,991Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by taus01
    Originally posted by evemaster00

    We want full open world, not instanced!

    Why does richard garriot think ex UO players want anything less than an actual WORLD where all players are able to interact with each other? Be it for good, or for bad. It's the ups and downs that makes for the best experience.

    The whole Kickstarter looks to me like an attempt to jump on the bandwagon and get some easy cash. I am puzzled by the design decisions and the lack of vision. It is not even an mmo, its more of the facebook generation pseudo online games we have seen in recent years. Lobby or world map with instanced multiplayer but mostly made for solo play.

    I am disappointed Lord British!

    You're puzzled because it doesn't fit the MMO mold. Hopefully this clears things up for you:

     

    It's not an MMO.  It's a singleplayer/multiplayer RPG.

     

    From what I understood, there are three modes to play this game:

    - Single player RPG, very similar to the old Ultima series games.

    - Multiplayer cooperative, like Neverwinter Nights or Guild Wars.

    - MMORPG, like... well, a MMORPG, in a shared world with thousands of strangers.

    C'mon, I know you understand the difference between what you wrote and what they say they are delivering.

    Open Play Online (OPO)
    In OPO players will see everyone that the server thinks they should see.  This will not necessarily be all people in the area but should be people you care the most about based on what we believe is their relevance to you.

    They are being clear about what they intend to deliver (not a MMORPG) no reason to muddy the waters.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,546Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kyleran

    C'mon, I know you understand the difference between what you wrote and what they say they are delivering.

    Open Play Online (OPO)
    In OPO players will see everyone that the server thinks they should see.  This will not necessarily be all people in the area but should be people you care the most about based on what we believe is their relevance to you.

    They are being clear about what they intend to deliver (not a MMORPG) no reason to muddy the waters.

    When you quote something, be at least honest enough to quote it entirely.

    "This game mode will basically feel like an MMORPG."

    EDIT: the fault isn't yours though, I just noticed previous posts also omitted that important part. Sorry about that.

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • JasonJJasonJ New Port Richey, FLPosts: 395Member
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by JasonJ

     What does FFA PvP have to do with this? He is talking about having an OPEN world, not an instanced one...and few UO players would say FFA PvP was a bad idea...as for your comment about FFA games failing...I find that rather amusing seeing the popularity of FFA games in Asia topping all but WoW in he west. Nexon and NCsoft became the powerhouses they are today based on FFA games. But I do thank you for the red herring which has nothing to do with the topic.

    The majority of UO players would say FORCED FFA PvP was a bad idea. It worked while there was no concurence, before Everquest was released. Then, the majority of UO players realized they could play another game (EQ), where they weren't looted dry by psychopaths and their maxed out characters each time they left town safety. Why do you think they patched in Trammel? FFA PvP is ok, as long as it's the player's choice. As I said, I seriously doubt Garriot will make the same mistake twice.

    And Asian games are irrelevant here. We're not in Asia. There's not a single FFA PvP game which is succesfull worldwide, and definitely not in the west. And before you say "EvE", EvE is not a FFA PvP game.

     1. All FFA is forced...its Free For All.

    2. The game was more popular before Trammel, so no, the majority disagrees...even Garriott says it was a mistake to allow it and Koster said it was a mistake to make it.

    3. UOs population did not drop until Renaissance brought in Trammel, in 2000...EQ had been out for 2 years already. Nice try.

    Asian games are irrelevant here? FFXI, FFXV, Tera, Lineage 2...Archeage is the second most hyped game on this site with Wildstar at #5 and they keep talking about Age of Wushu over and over again...

    You grasp at straws because you have no ground to stand on.

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,546Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JasonJ

     1. All FFA is forced...its Free For All.

    You can have a game with FFA PvP servers and non-FFA PvP servers. One doesn't detract from the other, it only gives players the choice. The UO choice of putting both on the same server was the mistake of Trammel, if they had made separate servers with non-forced PvP, it would have worked much better. And fact is that what the FFA PvP lovers are the most angry about is that Trammel stole them most of their "easy prey" and that they had to fight skilled PvPers instead of the poor crafters just wanting to be left alone.

    2. The game was more popular before Trammel, so no, the majority disagrees...even Garriott says it was a mistake to allow it and Koster said it was a mistake to make it.

    3. UOs population did not drop until Renaissance brought in Trammel, in 2000...EQ had been out for 2 years already. Nice try.

    I don't know where you get your imaginary numbers from, but this is wrong. It was said back then by the developers themself that they added Trammel because of the player bleeding resulting of the endless ganking. I'm not making this up, unlike you, it comes from the guys who made the game, in several articles back then, notably from Raph Koster himself, the lead developer of UO. I perfectly remember that, but it's not new that the FFA PvP lovers have long term memory problems with that specific point. They seem to believe that their play style is a sort of majority thing, even if everything in MMORPG history contradicts them and proves it's only a tiny, very tiny niche in the genre.

    You are also wrong about the UO population drop... the drop actually started in 2004, way after Renaissance was released (April 3, 2000). Renaissance brought players who had left back to the game, and the game had a steady 250.000+ players up to early 2004.

    Asian games are irrelevant here? FFXI, FFXV, Tera, Lineage 2...Archeage is the second most hyped game on this site with Wildstar at #5 and they keep talking about Age of Wushu over and over again...

    And those games are one that "hyped" because of the Asian player base. As I said, Asia is irrelevant here, we talk about a western online RPG. Archeage is hyped like any upcoming release, Tera is not really a success in the west, and the FF franchise is just laughable in NA and Europe.

    You grasp at straws because you have no ground to stand on.

    And you go personal because I exposed your bluff.

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

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