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Richard Garriott “I think most game designers really just suck”

VolgoreVolgore Posts: 2,209Member Uncommon

I just stumbled upon this on PCGamer: http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/03/19/richard-garriott-game-designers-suck/

I think for someone with a failed Tabula Rasa in his record and the need for a kickstarter for his new title, he is rolling up some heavy artillery there.

Have fun :)

 

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Comments

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member

    Well he's not really wrong....he just should include himself in that list.

    you never really know if some of these people are just bad or if they just don't have the budget to see it through.

  • johnismejohnisme ladysmith, BCPosts: 71Member Uncommon

    Did you read on why Tabula Rasa failed and that Richard Garriot sued  NCsoft for 28 million and won over his departure from Tabula Rasa?

    I wouldn't want a publisher after that and do a kick starter instead.

  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,744Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by johnisme

    Did you read on why Tabula Rasa failed and that Richard Garriot sued  NCsoft for 28 million and won over his departure from Tabula Rasa?

    I wouldn't want a publisher after that and do a kick starter instead.

    I imagine he's judging other designers based on the final product, regardless of what other factors are involved, so it's fair to judge him the same way.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • rodingorodingo Posts: 2,346Member Uncommon
    He spends a lot of time tooting his own horn in that article.  Plus maybe he feels it's ok to burn bridges by saying how most game designers suck today (not agreeing or disagreeing with that), but I have a feeling that's going to bite him in the arse.  I don't think his name is as golden anymore as he thinks it is.

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • BahamutKaiserBahamutKaiser Hyattsville, MDPosts: 306Member
    Regardless of who he is... I kinda agree. I just choose not to ridicule without cause.

    I will however make allowances for the difficulty of funding modern games, investor tampering, corporate money mongering and political problems as other serious obstacles to the improvement of games, its hard to say if its the designers fault, or just circumstances...

    Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes.
    That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    Using tactics like this to bolster attention for your product is distasteful. Oh sure, it works but that doesn't mean it should be done. Business is business I guess, jut like my wallet and this is strike one as far as I'm concerned. I've always ignored the bad rap he gets because there are always other sides to the story. This is directly from him however.
  • GhavriggGhavrigg Halifax, NSPosts: 777Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by johnisme

    Did you read on why Tabula Rasa failed and that Richard Garriot sued  NCsoft for 28 million and won over his departure from Tabula Rasa?

    I wouldn't want a publisher after that and do a kick starter instead.

    Yes, the game was "rushed" out the door after only a 7ish year development cycle. ;)

    Apparently Mr. Garriott had no clear vision for the actual game, and was just throwing out ideas and hoping for the best, so a couple years into it, he decided everything had to be redone from nearly scratch, then during the second version of the game, they still didn't have anything solid until just around the time NcSoft pushed the game out the door. By solid, of course, I mean a barely workable version of the game that wasn't very fun.

    He wasted years of time and money on this game, NcSoft tried to screw him over for his stock options because of it all, but in the end, he sued them and won $27 million.

    To be honest, both sides acted poorly at times, but ultimately, it was Garriott's lack of direction and shitty design skills that caused the game to fail. Nice and ironic.

    Anyway, Garriott sued NcSoft because of lost money from stock options he lost from the departure, not because they somehow ruined his game. He did prove, however, that he's capable of making money regardless of whether or not he's any good at what he does.

  • SoMuchMassSoMuchMass New York, NYPosts: 548Member

    He probably is right and he did clarify that he doesn't mean he is brilliant but that is how it is today.  The one point he made was previously game designers were programmers and artists and could do a lot of things.  But these days game designers can't program or can't be artistic so they go into game design.

    He might sound arrogant, but he probably is right.

  • ketzerei84ketzerei84 Boston, MAPosts: 67Member Common
    Originally posted by johnisme

    Did you read on why Tabula Rasa failed and that Richard Garriot sued  NCsoft for 28 million and won over his departure from Tabula Rasa?

    I wouldn't want a publisher after that and do a kick starter instead.

    Be that as it may, and with all due respect for Garriot's work on ultima which helped to push MMOs into popularity, he also had his lawyers crack down on the people working on TR emulators - even though the game is technically abandonware, if I remember correctly the TR emu team was given a warning to "cease and desist, or face a lawsuit for infringement on Intellectual Property rights". That being the case, I'm not really sure i'd want to play a game run by Lord British - even though I do consider him to be one of the greatest game designers of all time - on par with Brad McQuaid.

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  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,744Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rodingo
    Plus maybe he feels it's ok to burn bridges by saying how most game designers suck today (not agreeing or disagreeing with that), but I have a feeling that's going to bite him in the arse.  I don't think his name is as golden anymore as he thinks it is.

    "And then after I had that interview where I said all game designers suck, I couldn't find a good designer to work with for the life of me.  Man I hate being right all the time!"

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • WraithoneWraithone Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 3,593Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Volgore

    I just stumbled upon this on PCGamer: http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/03/19/richard-garriott-game-designers-suck/

    I think for someone with a failed Tabula Rasa in his record and the need for a kickstarter for his new title, he is rolling up some heavy artillery there.

    Have fun :)

     

    You might wish to read the article, so that his statements are placed in context... ^^  He makes some very valid points about the typical back ground (or lack there of) of all too many designers.  Given the games that he has created, I'd tend to listen to him, even in light of what happened with Tabula Rasa.

    I fault NCsoft *and* him for that failure.  NCsofts high level suits for playing political games (whose antics eventually ended up costing them $32 million)

    Richard Garriott termination

    Richard Garriott, lead developer of Tabula Rasa, sued NCsoft for US$47 million in damages concerning his termination from the company. Garriott asserted in his suit that he was forced out of the company and was made to sell his 400,000 shares in NCsoft's stock, losing him millions of dollars. In addition, he claimed that the company was guilty of fraud by forging his resignation announcement.[16] On July 30, 2010, a jury in a Texas federal court awarded him US$28 million in damages. NCsoft appealed the ruling.[17] Garriott again prevailed on appeal and NCsoft was required to pay an additional US$4 million, bringing the total damages awarded to Garriott to US$32 million.[18]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCsoft#Richard_Garriott_termination

    I also fault RG for his focus on his trip to space, rather than on his game.

    Saying that most designers suck, is a bit stronger wording than I'd have used, but the essence remains the same.

  • BrownAleBrownAle fantasyland, MEPosts: 399Member

    I agree with the guy.  Hes made some great games in the past, and Tabula had a good idea that in hindsight was kind of ahead of its time with the whole...well i guess we call it dynamic events and mmofps...which seems to be the trend right now.

    I do recall him stating, when asked about why kickstart for his new singleplayer game...said something along the lines that he will never use a publisher again...im guessing TR and NCsoft was the reason.

    Its not the first time that a publisher/suits have pushed a game out the door simply for business strategy reasons and paid the price because the game was half baked because of it.  For some reason they see that as the better option than launching amongst competition...

     

    To be honest...i wish this guy would make a proper mmorpg with no major company backing him already.  Even for a guy with pockets as deep as him...self funding a mmorpg...he probably doesnt have enough to do it.

     

    Also, could care less about going to space, not sure why everyone bring that up like he had everyone on his team stop what they were doing during it.

     

    It seems the better part of a decade developers though processes go like this: what worked in the past-->graphics--->how can we tweak systems to make the sound different but still are the same--->hype it

    Its rarely following a vision, making a fun game, or inventing something new and actually changing mechanics a bit.  Did i say rarely?  i meant never...sorry

    They all see one other game thats wildly successful and think...if i did that with better graphics....or if i did that with guns instead of swords...or if we can do that but make the quests passive and give it a cool name like dynamic something...or what if we put a massive cutscene storyline to break up the boredom that our standard issue game model is...

    But they hype it good with lots of buzzwords that turn off logic in gamers brains and they make a fist full of cash at launch and so others see that and well...youve been playing that game for how long now?

     

    Developers suck right now. Wouldnt be so bad if everyone and their mother didnt jump on the bandwagon that made like 3-4 older games so damn popular.  Remember those guys actually brought new ideas to the table, not regurgitated "innovation"

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Originally posted by johnisme

    Did you read on why Tabula Rasa failed and that Richard Garriot sued  NCsoft for 28 million and won over his departure from Tabula Rasa?

    I wouldn't want a publisher after that and do a kick starter instead.

    If i won 28 million in a lawsuit i wouldnt be going to kickstarter to fund a game....

  • TuchakaTuchaka san diego, CAPosts: 468Member

    I grew up playing the ultima games long before ultima online came out he is 100% right and as said before he was not the reason tabula rasa failed. Consider how many wow rip off themepark games are in the MMO market none of those people should get any credit and yet tons of younger gamers give them so much credit for what.....no innovation and good marketing.

     

     The reason he is going to kickstarter is because innovation in the MMO market is dead and getting someone to back a project that is a radical departure from the clones of games is nearly impossible. Part of the reason so many publishing companies are backing projects wtih no innovation is they see a trend of gamers wanting innovative new games and then when someone does make those games there is a temporary migration from wow to the new game, and then after 6 months they go sinking back to wow. So the investors say well we must make a game like wow or we have no change to be succesful.  The more expensive projects get the less investors wanna fund anything innovative, look at the movies today notice a lot of remakes well that is because if your movie flops considering how expensive they are to make, the studio might go under.

     So they are marketing based on previous name recognition, people are more likely to accept an idea or concept they are already famaliar with than a new one. Well its the same thing with gaming , kickstarter is giving game ideas that are badly neededin this industry a chance the problem is your not gonna see AAA quality graphics. Well look at it this way even if you have no interest in any of the kicstarter projects tommorow's themepark games are gonna be influenced by indie projects that are succesful.

  • UhwopUhwop Wilm, DEPosts: 1,663Member Uncommon

    The guy made one game 27 times. 

     

    He doesn't have the slightest idea how to make gameS.  He knows how to make one game, 27 times. 

    In basic, on punch cards. 

     

    There's a reason why, outside of making the 27 ultimas, this guy has done nothing but talk for the last 40 years; no one uses macintosh anymore.  

  • waynejr2waynejr2 West Toluca Lake, CAPosts: 4,476Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Axehilt
    Originally posted by rodingo
    Plus maybe he feels it's ok to burn bridges by saying how most game designers suck today (not agreeing or disagreeing with that), but I have a feeling that's going to bite him in the arse.  I don't think his name is as golden anymore as he thinks it is.

    "And then after I had that interview where I said all game designers suck, I couldn't find a good designer to work with for the life of me.  Man I hate being right all the time!"

     lol

  • BaselineBaseline Sloan, NYPosts: 503Member

    I wouldn't trust Richard Garriot as far as I could throw him.

    His fans make it out to sound like he was a victim with the NCSoft Tabula Rasa thing, but people only read his side of the story. Richard Garriot comes off as another Brad McQuaid type, meaning the type who shouldn't really be leading game development production in the modern world of massive teams and departments (this isn't just a game team making something and throwing it out there, it's a different game today), but rather working in some kind of lead designer position.

    Every time you put these hot shot devs into management positions, things go south. It's no different in other parts of the businessworld. Rarely does good engineer = good businessman. Bill Gates is an oddity, or maybe not; he was hardly an engineer as much as a businessman who liked to tinker.. Woz would've never made a good businessman, and he admits it, and that's why people still like Woz.

  • DAS1337DAS1337 Parma, OHPosts: 2,404Member
    Originally posted by Volgore

    I just stumbled upon this on PCGamer: http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/03/19/richard-garriott-game-designers-suck/

    I think for someone with a failed Tabula Rasa in his record and the need for a kickstarter for his new title, he is rolling up some heavy artillery there.

    Have fun :)

     

    Seeing as though his MMO is literally the longest surviving MMO in the history of MMO's, I don't think you can really say anything negative about him.

     

    Plus, as it's been beaten to death, but still apparently not common knowledge..  Tabula Rasa died because of the decisions he was forced to make during development.  He did not get a chance to do what he wanted to with the game.  Plus, I believe it came way before it's time as far as technology is concerned.  As most of you have noticed.  There is now a large influx of FPS/TPS MMO'ish games being released lately.

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common

     

     The reason he is going to kickstarter is because innovation in the MMO market is dead projects tommorow's themepark games are gonna be influenced by indie projects that are succesful.

    Because GW2 (no trinity, not heavily gearbased), TSW (modern setting, puzzle/mystery solving gameplay, skill wheel), and TERA (action oriented combat) are all standard games?  people that think everything is still WoW clones are blind to whats going on around them.  okay, TERA maybe be 'poor quality WoW with action combat", but the other two games are far, far from WoW clonish.  And of course games like PS2, Defiance and EoN (if it releases0 that are crossgenre games.

     

    There is plenty of innovation out there.

     

     

    The real question is why is a millionaire who can spend 30 million to go to space asking for crowd funding?

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,778Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Volgore

    I just stumbled upon this on PCGamer: http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/03/19/richard-garriott-game-designers-suck/

    I think for someone with a failed Tabula Rasa in his record and the need for a kickstarter for his new title, he is rolling up some heavy artillery there.

    Have fun :)

     

    i had a blast reading the comments of so many stupid people on that article's comment session. They made my day.

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  • johnismejohnisme ladysmith, BCPosts: 71Member Uncommon
    Ditto.
  • TuchakaTuchaka san diego, CAPosts: 468Member
    Originally posted by strangiato2112

     

     The reason he is going to kickstarter is because innovation in the MMO market is dead projects tommorow's themepark games are gonna be influenced by indie projects that are succesful.

    Because GW2 (no trinity, not heavily gearbased), TSW (modern setting, puzzle/mystery solving gameplay, skill wheel), and TERA (action oriented combat) are all standard games?  people that think everything is still WoW clones are blind to whats going on around them.  okay, TERA maybe be 'poor quality WoW with action combat", but the other two games are far, far from WoW clonish.  And of course games like PS2, Defiance and EoN (if it releases0 that are crossgenre games.

     

    There is plenty of innovation out there.

     

     

    The real question is why is a millionaire who can spend 30 million to go to space asking for crowd funding?

    yep GW2 is innovative and its why i play it, as far as the TSW goes pretty standard themepark, ya its a different setting that has not been done before but to me that is minor and has very little to do with actuall gameplay, how many games out there have we seen that are just WoW with a couple of tweaks...the majority of games in the industry you can't define a industry by a couple of titles. If you look at the console market there is way more innovation then the MMO industry , mostly because the games cost less , the creative people are not the problem its the financial side that has made so many clones out there.

      hence why kickstarter is becoming so popular, becauase there are tons of gamers like myself who are sick of the same old themepark games with one or two minor tweaks. Yes we are starting to see 'some' inovation in the MMO industry but its very little and only because the last couple of big budget wow copies fell flat on their face,  but for years it was the only thing being made and its still the majority.  Besides when a game starts with a subscription model and quickly moves to F2P its because the game flopped.

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,453Member Uncommon

    Actually i don't think they suck,it is the unfinished and lack of effort they put into games that sucks.

    I am quite sure that MOST of the bigger developers could develop an absolute masterpiece of a game.It is however greed and simple profit,that says NO,you will get what we decide and when we decide to give it to you,that ruins any chance of a great game.

    BETA's are the biggest blemish going right now,they are not even real Beta's just pre order hype.It  is funny how developer's claim that they "listen to the gamers" and this si a Beta to assure quality of our product,then release the game with a definitive release date.How can any developer be trusted when thney have guarantee release dates,answer is,they CAN'T.


    Samoan Diamond

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,912Member Uncommon
    Whether true or not LB, poor taste, very poor taste. Regardless of their caliber, they are colleagues, show some respect for the medium at least. Now I picture him walking into the next conference he attends in a purple silk suit, a popped collar, while carrying himself like Tony Wonder from Arrested Development.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • HeroEvermoreHeroEvermore salem, ORPosts: 672Member

    He is right 100%

    You comment on him failing Tabula Rasa actually proves your point invalid as well. Tabula Rasa was something VERY different and thats what being a game designer is about. Even if you make an amazing popular succesful game like Blade and Soul for example. It does NOT MEAN its good from a game design stand, because you really did't bring much to the table besides a new online world. Something there are so many of. Change how the world reacts to me and I'll be impressed. That is exactly what Mr. Garriot inspires to do. Does it mean he cna single handedly pull that off? No and thats just how it is when so many wheels are turned to make a game. Posts like this just set the mmorpg back to WoW is the only game days. Innovation FTW.

    Hero Evermore
    Guild Master of Dragonspine since 1982.
    Playing Path of Exile and deeply in love with it.

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