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Neverwinter Bombs in Beta

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Comments

  • EzhaeEzhae LondonPosts: 737Member
    Originally posted by Monstre0auS
    Originally posted by Ezhae

    Is it good enough? Nope. It feels lacking at pretty much everything it tries to do. Trying to target heal a halfling in middle of combat with everyone standing clustered and sillyc ompanions getting in way is next to impossible so...

    $0.06 now...

    Red: See, this is the thing that is irking me about people's grievances with this game. People not realising that the halfling your mentioning, if he needed heals, could easily have popped out of combat long enough for you to target him and get that heal off.

    The game doesn't have soft or hard timers for boss fights. There is no rush. If your getting pummelled, drop out of the fight, get healed up, jump back in! A good guardian has two abilities by level 10 that allows him to taunt mobs, not to mention an ability to slow mobs if there is something chasing a squishy, and an ability to 'sort've' intercept.

    Most rogues and clerics and Arcane Wiz's I've seen though, don't appear to be all that squishy at all - so unless they wanna stand their ground when a Battlescarred Orc unleashes it's painful AoE, instead of dodging out like it should, then the faults with them. Not the game.

    True, but in random group situation, as in going through the queue, you don't expect people to actually be reasonable while same they exepct you to care for their asses (if you play a healer class). Gladly I haven't ran into any whiners, and as I said, I was able to keep the group up perfectly fine with just Seal and Divine Power-Bastion combo.

    Still it's sort of frustratin when you want to throw a heal to a tank to top him off (and there pretty much is no reason to not use skills when they are ready because it builds AP for "daily power) and you have to wrestle with camera for it to actually target him and not one of 3 companions that crowd around him. I don't really see the reason for companions to even be in dungeons/skirmishes at all, they are good for soloing but they should probably keep em out of group content to reduce the clusterfuck. 

  • BurntvetBurntvet Baltimore, MDPosts: 2,950Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by syklonis

    I just couldnt get past the horrible, horrible character models.  But then again this is cryptic, so I guess I should of expected crap looking characters.  Its like LOTR online, I wanna to play in their world but the character models are so off-putting that I can't even force myslef to log in to play.  Good luck to all that enjoy it :)

     

    I just don't understand how anyone with any objectivity at all can get excited about this game. On the positive side... it is new. That's it. It is obviously not very deep and graphically not that well made (obvious). It is very linear (obvious). And is very limited in content and choice, as compared to what is "available" in the D&D world. And it is also from a company known for making very shallow games and not "doing right" by an IP (STO anyone?). Cryptic makes games cheaply and greatly simplified. I don't understand it, I guess people are just getting used to accepting less from MMOs these days.
  • FarstryderFarstryder Louisville, KYPosts: 69Member
    Originally posted by Ragnarockk

    This was the second weekend of beta testing and while technically they were giving out beta keys to "select" people and people who "bought" their content packages (the content packages can't be used until launch), this is an open beta because on Twitter and at conventions, beta keys were dropping like candy from pinyatas, especially duing the week leading up to this weekend.  Now it's about to close down.  And I'm sharing my experiences here because I'm about to pan it and they've been guilty of thread moving and deleting if they feel it is "too negative."  That's a problem in itself.  They want feedback, but only if it's good. 

    I wanted to like it, I really did, I played it every day of the weekend for hours.  Logged several bugs, posted several howto's on their forums, because howto's are simply not to be found unless fans make 'em, forcing everyone to reinvent the wheel and everyone to endure endless repeat questions on Zone chat.  But here were several showstoppers for me:

    1.  When I realized there is no way to make an organized group or raid in the game.  Because of the chaotic reticule nature of the TPS (third person shooter) interface, you can't focus on your tank, can't even lock focus on anything unless you hold down CTRL all the time, so things like Target of Target are impossible, and when I brought that up, it was very nearly ignored.  People simply said "that's the challenge of the interface."  O.o  Yeah, how does that work for heals?  Basically in every group I was in, we fought large groups in tight chaotic groupings, with the dps going after the snipers and ranged fighters.  Which means the big aoes of the control wizard often didn't get recharged bc they weren't doing enough damage to one person as they spent time freezing people so they didn't get massacred while fighting a lone fight on the fringes.  Meanwhile the aoe of the bad guys got unleashed on the party about 6 or 7 times.  I'm just glad it was weak. 

    2.  There is no way to zone out of a map at will.  Ok, if you're in a combat, you might not always have the option anyway.  but what if you get stuck somewhere in a badly designed Foundry mission?  Foundry misions are player designed dungeons.  What if you discover a bug that strands you somewhere?  And you can't say "zone me home" or "let me start over" or "abandon this" or whatever?  Truth be told, it's a bug that if you say abandon, then change your mind and say cancel, it strands you in the zone with no way to zone out via Abandon anymore.  And a bug is a bug.  But anyway, I just think that because the Foundry is player created, that's why there should be an abort mission button all the time.  it shouldn't be up to the player to "know better not to do that."  There's a word for doing it right:  robust.  Currently not robust.

    3. if you just quest, you are bored to death.  There is one questline, very linear, no side quests almost ever.  So my advice is, next beta weekend, if you go:    a.   grind the decrepit skeletons for level 2 loot until you're decently geared, and level 3, that way you'll be level 5 faster, and you'll have decent gear which is better than being level 5 and gearless farther along.   and   b.  go to blacklake as soon as you get to the city.  You can survive it at level 5 or 6, the gear that drops won't do you any good yet, though.  So get to level 7, pray for astral diamonds and buy some gear from the auction, or go back to do some earlier quests.  You'll be surprised how easy they are, but that's not the point, you want gear.  The point of black lake is multiple quests, job board, harper, lots more to do.  A lack of content is very very obvious.  It's like the devs have decided to let the community write the foundry quests.  Except that the foundry quests can't have been written by the fans now can they? 

    4 They are determined to write a "shoot em up" type of game, not a fantasy game.  Chat is filled with players who are unhappy and wishing they had Neverwinter in the hands of people who actually appreciated   a/  fantasy and b/ D&D  and c/ a more familiar point and click interface whre you can tab-target, and every once in a while you get really suspicious statements by people saying "oh this is the best game I've ever played."  Really?  Totally unqualified statements like that make me go hmmm...  Just one example there is a "Hall of Justice" where this guy talks like any minute I'm going to see some superheroes step out and sit down around a big oval table.  It would be hillarious if it wasn't such a bad design fit. 

    I played a guardian and a control wizard, and tried the rogue but hated that, it didn't last long.  It seems the control wizard actually takes less damage than the guard for some odd reason, maybe she kills faster, or she repels more often, or she slows them down.  Whatever, she can protect herself better than the tank. 

    On the plus side, PW seems very responsive to what is happening and has agreed that the silly hand gesture of the control wizard needs to be changed, and also was on top of a Foundry instance that had lots of people stuck in it (see item 2) for HOURS.  They do seem to be responsive and on top of things.  But their mandates are sometimes at cross purposes.  There was a passel of people who coudln't log in, and when they complained on the forums, the moderators deleted their stuff and moved their threads and things (which is in the EULA of hte forum, which is why i say cross purposes), but when the person started a new thread again, someone from PW replied that they wanted the name of the moderators who did that bc it was an accounts issue and they shouldn't have been treated like that.  So there is oversight, responsiveness and justice on the plus side of the ledger.

    I don't like the game, but the game company's good.  I don't even mind their keeping my money and I may even try the game after launch, way way after... once the bugs are fixed to see how it turned out.  but I think I'm done testing.  Good luck to them from the standpoint of making a game, and being businesspeople, but this is in no way what I envisioned for Neverwinter, and it saddens me.  I still don't have a Neverwinter game I like since the first.  /shrug

    To each his own. I played it and was suprised how fun it was.  However imo your arguments are on the weak side for saying a game is a bomb, I thought the combat was awesome. I had no problem with the challenge of healing targets with a cleric whether with a sigil and aoe heal or positioning for a ray or word of healing. The skirmishes plus the open ground  maps,, the the foundry maps, and questing was all extrmemly fun and satisfying. I  partied multiple times and on average 10 x betters than your standard wow , gw2  groups in my experiences it was very friendly and casual. The animation with the wizard were not that bad if you had ever really played d&d  you would know that 8/10 of spells are not only verbal but somatic and they have frequent hand gestures. It just comes down to people always wanting different and when it comes they complain about it just like tsw.. the only bomb here will be as the usual people people who have non existent unnatainable expectations and constant crying, they will never fill that void in gaming for them because they are  unhappy and whine no matter what. I wish I had a dollar for every mmorpg poster who instead fo looking at the the mmos and seeing half glass  full and realizing all the hard work put into games and respecting the games for it's many good qualities they see  miniscule things that are supposedly gamebreaking and a glass almost empty..lol people these days are a joke..honestly  I should'nt be suprised but I always am.

    Farstryder,

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by Dogblaster
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Really more open than EQ, or that game you hate on?

    Really?

    Yea man, by having everything instanced with just one rout to go, forward and not open world or maps at all.. it makes the game most open ever ... ups, i mean closed

     Oh look, this zone is OPEN, I can go anywhere!

    Oh wait, the zone is for levels 1-10 and im not really going anywhere and this is the only zone I can level in!

    Hey wait, that instanced game has 1000 instances for levels 1-10 and I can make a new one myself, this is so linear...

    Yeah yeah, I know I know, in that open zone you can zig zag and do circles to your quests and in this one you can only go forward and back...unless the instace is large...derp.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by jtcgs
    Originally posted by Dogblaster
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Really more open than EQ, or that game you hate on?

    Really?

    Yea man, by having everything instanced with just one rout to go, forward and not open world or maps at all.. it makes the game most open ever ... ups, i mean closed

     Oh look, this zone is OPEN, I can go anywhere!

    Oh wait, the zone is for levels 1-10 and im not really going anywhere and this is the only zone I can level in!

    Hey wait, that instanced game has 1000 instances for levels 1-10 and I can make a new one myself, this is so linear...

    Yeah yeah, I know I know, in that open zone you can zig zag and do circles to your quests and in this one you can only go forward and back...unless the instace is large...derp.

    lol...+1

    with the foundry you could actually make an entire city of quests if you wanted.. would take forever alone though heh can see a quick easy example of a dev making one mission here

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/379090/Foundry-Video-for-those-who-are-interested.html

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • KhinRuniteKhinRunite ManilaPosts: 879Member
    Originally posted by Monstre0auS
    Originally posted by Ragnarockk
    'But here were several showstoppers for me:

    1.  When I realized there is no way to make an organized group or raid in the game.  Because of the chaotic reticule nature of the TPS (third person shooter) interface, you can't focus on your tank, can't even lock focus on anything unless you hold down CTRL all the time, so things like Target of Target are impossible, and when I brought that up, it was very nearly ignored.  People simply said "that's the challenge of the interface."

    2.  There is no way to zone out of a map at will.

    3. if you just quest, you are bored to death. There is one questline, very linear, no side quests almost ever.

    4. They are determined to write a "shoot em up" type of game, not a fantasy game.  Chat is filled with players who are unhappy and wishing they had Neverwinter in the hands of people who actually appreciated   a/  fantasy and b/ D&D  and c/ a more familiar point and click interface whre you can tab-target, and every once in a while you get really suspicious statements by people saying "oh this is the best game I've ever played."

    Hi there, Ragnarockk!

    I just wanna chip in my $0.02 and whilst I thank you for highlighting some of the postives of this game, I wanna address some of your negatives, sorry for the paraphrasing.

    Because they are some of the same negatives I'm helping address all over these forums it seems... Which means either people arn't reading others posts about Neverwinter on these forums, or arn't reading my responses to them! image

    1. The point of this interface is to require some element of skill in the combat. You can't tab target because in doing so, it kind of mitigates your responsibility to be looking at what's going on and actually actively taking a part in it. You mentioned that in your group, it was a bit chaotic? Well, in my opinion you have had a bad group! I've played both beta weekends, clearing the blacklake skirmish, as well as the tower district orc skirmish in both, and running the Cloak Tower in both and never have I had any experience where the group had trouble in doing their roles effectively. Now admittedly, I've played a Guardian both runs, but my close friend played a Cleric to 30 last weekend with me, and this weekend playing the Arcane (Meh, Control) Wiz said he's never seen or had any issues with healing or the like either.

    2. Yes, there is. You type /killme and release your spirit to the zones starting campfire. Thus allowing you to leave. Neverwinter doesn't have any death penalties for this as far as I'm aware, so that is that.

    3. Devs has stated that side quests and crafting and other such things will be added either at launch, or soon after. We're meant to be beta testing bugs, not playing through the entire content just for our sake of enjoyment.

    4. B) Cryptic and WotC have actually worked hand in hand with this game to ensure that it's lore, as well as the details of characters, skills etc, are in-fact very close if not identical to what you'd find in 4ed D&D, so that argument is false. A) I don't see how this setting is not fantasy. If you can point out a single article in game that would be of another setting, modern reality, sci-fi, horror, etc, then please do. If you cannot, then yes, this game is in fact fantasy based. C) Addressed in point 1. I believe.

    Seems to me the game isn't as bad as the OP made me believe.

  • BeardymanBeardyman Dyersburg, TNPosts: 50Member

    Is there no NDA in place for this beta?

     

    1. "Free-aim" or "action" combat is a matter of taste, in my opinion. I like it in some games, but in others it feels out of place. As I haven't gotten a chance to try it myself, I'm in no place to judge or even comment on it. I'll still try it to see if I like it, regardless.

    2. Did you report this in the bug section of the Neverwinter forum? That is, of course, the intention of betas. I'm a little frustrated at seeing posts like this where people think of beta as a chance to try the game first, or as a free trial. They do these things for a reason. They want to find bugs and fix them before official launch.

    3. One quest line does sound like a rather severe lack of content, unless of course their focus is on other means of leveling. If there are sufficient numbers of  dungeons, I'd much rather "grind" my way to cap in those (assuming they're fun). Who knows? Once again, until I've tried I can't judge for myself.

    4. I'll agree with Claes on this one. I believe this is the same point as listed in 1.

     

    Thank you for your opinion. I personally am a firm believer in trying things for myself before judging them, so I'm gonna give this one a fair chance regardless. Everyone has different tastes, after all. :)

     

    EDIT: I'd like to say that I didn't read past the first page of posts, but after seeing Monstre0auS's post, I feel that my post was a waste of time. Bleh.

  • NeblessNebless Hammond, ORPosts: 939Member Common

    There were a number of things I enjoyed on the starter quest series.  I like the sparkly trail showing you the way.  The death animations and the quests themself seemed to make sense.

    I only wish for Key Mapping as I hate WASD movement.  Since you're locked into pointing where you're looking, how hard would it be to include a movement option using that.

    A more powerfull computer.  I had to play on the LOW setting and even then graphic's sucked.  Sadly if I can't see, I can't play.

    SWG - AoC - PotBS - DDO - LotRO - STO - GnH - SWToR

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by Beardyman

    3. One quest line does sound like a rather severe lack of content, unless of course their focus is on other means of leveling. If there are sufficient numbers of  dungeons, I'd much rather "grind" my way to cap in those (assuming they're fun). Who knows? Once again, until I've tried I can't judge for myself.

     FYI, there is no "one questline".

    There is a main questline...and then there are a bunch of small questlines and many single quests...and then there is the foundry which provides an unlimited amount of quests of any size. I dont recall seeing a limit on how many quests YOU can create that are tied to one another and there were several in the foundry during this beta that had 4 quests tied together.

    I will tell you right now, there are 14 people that I play with that are planning on making a very very long Waterdeep questline and if they ever implement the ability to use Drow in the foundry, a Menzoberranzan line of quests will be made. We create mods in the TES games and worked on two total conversion projects, we love to mod and mod big.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • milwalmilwal LondonPosts: 62Member Uncommon
    Pheww that was close lucky i got the freebie PC Gamer key....I played for about 8 hours and its just not for me found it very boring went back to EQ2 for the rest of the weekend...
  • wordizwordiz Eugene, ORPosts: 464Member
    News to me. I enjoyed the game and plan on playing at launch. Nice first post OP. You'll fit in nicely here.
  • RagnarockkRagnarockk philadelphia, PAPosts: 8Member
    Originally posted by Monstre0auS
    Originally posted by Ragnarockk
    'But here were several showstoppers for me:

    1.  When I realized there is no way to make an organized group or raid in the game.  Because of the chaotic reticule nature of the TPS (third person shooter) interface, you can't focus on your tank, can't even lock focus on anything unless you hold down CTRL all the time, so things like Target of Target are impossible, and when I brought that up, it was very nearly ignored.  People simply said "that's the challenge of the interface."

    2.  There is no way to zone out of a map at will.

    3. if you just quest, you are bored to death. There is one questline, very linear, no side quests almost ever.

    4. They are determined to write a "shoot em up" type of game, not a fantasy game.  Chat is filled with players who are unhappy and wishing they had Neverwinter in the hands of people who actually appreciated   a/  fantasy and b/ D&D  and c/ a more familiar point and click interface whre you can tab-target, and every once in a while you get really suspicious statements by people saying "oh this is the best game I've ever played."

    Hi there, Ragnarockk!

    I just wanna chip in my $0.02 and whilst I thank you for highlighting some of the postives of this game, I wanna address some of your negatives, sorry for the paraphrasing.

    Because they are some of the same negatives I'm helping address all over these forums it seems... Which means either people arn't reading others posts about Neverwinter on these forums, or arn't reading my responses to them! image

    1. The point of this interface is to require some element of skill in the combat. You can't tab target because in doing so, it kind of mitigates your responsibility to be looking at what's going on and actually actively taking a part in it. You mentioned that in your group, it was a bit chaotic? Well, in my opinion you have had a bad group! I've played both beta weekends, clearing the blacklake skirmish, as well as the tower district orc skirmish in both, and running the Cloak Tower in both and never have I had any experience where the group had trouble in doing their roles effectively. Now admittedly, I've played a Guardian both runs, but my close friend played a Cleric to 30 last weekend with me, and this weekend playing the Arcane (Meh, Control) Wiz said he's never seen or had any issues with healing or the like either.

    2. Yes, there is. You type /killme and release your spirit to the zones starting campfire. Thus allowing you to leave. Neverwinter doesn't have any death penalties for this as far as I'm aware, so that is that.

    3. Devs has stated that side quests and crafting and other such things will be added either at launch, or soon after. We're meant to be beta testing bugs, not playing through the entire content just for our sake of enjoyment.

    4. B) Cryptic and WotC have actually worked hand in hand with this game to ensure that it's lore, as well as the details of characters, skills etc, are in-fact very close if not identical to what you'd find in 4ed D&D, so that argument is false. A) I don't see how this setting is not fantasy. If you can point out a single article in game that would be of another setting, modern reality, sci-fi, horror, etc, then please do. If you cannot, then yes, this game is in fact fantasy based. C) Addressed in point 1. I believe.

    OK, you're obviously here to refute what I said to preserve your bottom line.  So here's what I have to say to that: 

    A.  I paid my way into Beta.  You can keep my money, make a better game, and take my criticism as constructive, instead of getting all defensive.  It would be a mistake to think that I'm not on your side. 

    B.  I want to have fun, just like you.  Lots of people simply had different expectations of what a D&D based game would look like.  I simply can't imagine that all those people planning Christian Guilds with their kids and families, with no swearing, and all roleplaying were going to make of your current vision.  I think you're having an image problem if you were imagining that they'd go all rabid for your PVP concept.  ("You wanna fight with mommy and daddy against your aunt and gran?  If we do it every day, eventually you can get a bear mount!  Won't that be fun?"   "Yeah, gran, Ima take you down!") 

    Now, point for point as I said...

    1.  Element of skill?  It's element of chaos.  All you need is one lag spike, or mechanical malfunction, and your focus is gone, your tank is dead, your raid is over.  Nobody who has a job is going to waste their time.

    2.  Yeah, /killme doesn't work if the respawn point is away from the front door, and there are mobs between you and both the front door and end of the foundry.  Moreover, some foundry makers thought it was cute to put mobs that repop in their dungeons.  Isn't that cute?  Well, I'm sure it's an aid to levelling, because you can grind them for xp, but if you die, and now they're between you and both doors, and the respawn is in the middle, /killme won't help.  And to the person who asked, if you log out, no, you don't log in outside the instance.  YOU MUST GIVE PEOPLE A CALL HOME< DUH.  This is exactly what happened to my friend and I and if he didn't have a transport scroll, our toons would've been there until you'd pulled the plug. Because no gm replied to our stuck request.

    3.  Status quo for f2p games.  Crafting and such go untested.  Oh wait, I'm sorry, was I supposed to be PLAYing?  I forgot, Beta wasn't supposed to be fun.  (sarcasm there)  you're saying I wasn't supposed to be playing through all the content for the sake of my enjoyment?  I take crafting very seriously and would have been happy to help you find problems with it, but ok, if all you care about is combat bugs.  Fine.  Now I know who you are.  Because you see, as I said in my original post, you are convinced that your game is awesome as it is, you will hear no complaint against it.  So why should anyone tell you anything?  Better to let you hit that wall all by yourself.  I posted this here for the benefit of PLAYERS. 

    4.  Sergeant Knox's greeting and speech has to be changed to be less "Superfriends" and more "Middle Ages" please.  If you care to actually not jar your players into a fit of giggling at that point in the game.  Next, how is it lore to have a lag spike cause you to lose focus and NOT heal your friend?  And yet, the cleric companion doesn't have this issue.  Hmmmm.....  I hear you about the interface being a preference, but heals should be area of effect.  Also, another thing that is NOT lore at all, the Control Wizard can only do AoE centered on himself???  I don't think so.  That would be battle wizard, melee wizard.  All dailies should be centerable on whatever I'm targeting.  That would be lore.   A nuke is a ranged attack, even in the modern world. 

     

  • BeyornBeyorn Canton, GAPosts: 249Member Uncommon

    The game is very linear but I think the saving grace will be the Foundry (for me anyway).  It is hard to tell for sure from youtube videos but I can’t wait to start making my own adventures.

    The only beef I have about the game is the stooooopid holy symbol the clerics are carrying around.  I wish they would add a mace and a small shield for no other reason than for looks ;D.

  • Squeak69Squeak69 Colorado Springs, COPosts: 956Member

    ok got to ask this what is the hate for tab targeting, i like tagb targeting cause you know MMOs have this thing called lag which makes the whole action based targeting on LARGE raids and such a extream pain.

    i just dont understand what all the hate is, do people fill they need to turn MMORPGs into a shooter or action game, there are plenty of those out there go play them, let MMOs have a interface and system that ACTULLY WORKS.

    F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used toimage
    Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  • RagnarockkRagnarockk philadelphia, PAPosts: 8Member
    Originally posted by Farstryder

     

    To each his own. I played it and was suprised how fun it was.  However imo your arguments are on the weak side for saying a game is a bomb, I thought the combat was awesome. I had no problem with the challenge of healing targets with a cleric whether with a sigil and aoe heal or positioning for a ray or word of healing. The skirmishes plus the open ground  maps,, the the foundry maps, and questing was all extrmemly fun and satisfying. I  partied multiple times and on average 10 x betters than your standard wow , gw2  groups in my experiences it was very friendly and casual. The animation with the wizard were not that bad if you had ever really played d&d  you would know that 8/10 of spells are not only verbal but somatic and they have frequent hand gestures. It just comes down to people always wanting different and when it comes they complain about it just like tsw.. the only bomb here will be as the usual people people who have non existent unnatainable expectations and constant crying, they will never fill that void in gaming for them because they are  unhappy and whine no matter what. I wish I had a dollar for every mmorpg poster who instead fo looking at the the mmos and seeing half glass  full and realizing all the hard work put into games and respecting the games for it's many good qualities they see  miniscule things that are supposedly gamebreaking and a glass almost empty..lol people these days are a joke..honestly  I should'nt be suprised but I always am.

    Wow man, are you listening to yourself?  "people are a joke"?  And yet you think you should tell them what to do?  If we're all a joke to you, then we're beneath your concern, aren't we?  And unattainable expectations?  Why is that?  Is it because the game company isn't listening?  Or they are already too invested in a certain path and hate to think what a mess it would be to actually fix the problem?  As for me, I wasn't brokenhearted that a game didn't work out.  I have lots of favorite games I play (psst, here's a secret... WoW isn't one of them).  But this game stood out so far as so bad, this was the right place to say so.  Was I uh, lacking in detail or something? Do you not feel more informed?  the purpose of this forum is info isn't it?

    The only person whining here is you, about me.  I was telling other players what I thought of a game, on a forum, which exists for that purpose.  We are sharing information.  You're insulting me for it.  Does it make you feel good?   Well, like you said, to each his own.  Whenever you have info, step up, man.

  • LaromussLaromuss vancouver, BCPosts: 324Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Beyorn

    The game is very linear but I think the saving grace will be the Foundry (for me anyway).  It is hard to tell for sure from youtube videos but I can’t wait to start making my own adventures.

    The only beef I have about the game is the stooooopid holy symbol the clerics are carrying around.  I wish they would add a mace and a small shield for no other reason than for looks ;D.

    I think Foundry is one of the main saving "grace", on the other hand and what people are overlooking is the A.I. and complementary Combat mechanics that has made this game very fun.  This is the first game where I will go out of my way to fight mobs instead of avoiding them because the combat is just so much fun to engage in.  

    The foundry is going to depend on great user created content while combat is consistent, fun and keeps improving as the player levels in terms of mechanic, enemy A.I,  and mob layering.  What they've gotten correct which is so fundamental in any game especially in an MMO is understanding the difference between Core gameplay and Map Gameplay and how to use both to enhance the game dramatically.  

  • LaromussLaromuss vancouver, BCPosts: 324Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Squeak69

    ok got to ask this what is the hate for tab targeting, i like tagb targeting cause you know MMOs have this thing called lag which makes the whole action based targeting on LARGE raids and such a extream pain.

    i just dont understand what all the hate is, do people fill they need to turn MMORPGs into a shooter or action game, there are plenty of those out there go play them, let MMOs have a interface and system that ACTULLY WORKS.

    I hope some of them understand that the game has soft tab targeting.  As long as you're within the area of the hit box,  projectiles will hit the enemy which I enjoy a lot more than a pure twitch based game that can be an utter failure if the lag cannot be controlled.  *cough cough Tera Nexus.  

  • RagnarockkRagnarockk philadelphia, PAPosts: 8Member

    Oh something else that struck me as odd.  Having to explain over and over again to people that no we're not an open group right now, that no we're nowhere near the entrance of the zone and no we're not coming back for them right now. 

    You see, they have this thing called "open groups" in this game.  Anybody can just join your group without asking.  Unless you specifically close your group.  So you're halfway done a zone, and somebody pops in and starts following you, mobs pop on them, and they die, then they ask you if you'll come back for them...  they never asked to join in the first place.  Because it was beta, most of the time, if we're close to the beginning, it wasn't an issue, hey, the more the merrier.  But it was such a pain when people who were nowhere nearby or not even in the right instance would just appear in your group list.  Then ask "where are you guys?" after trying to find you. 

    I'm not sure how I feel about that yet.  On one hand it breaks the ice, on the other, I wonder if it's exploitable.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Laross
    Originally posted by Squeak69

    ok got to ask this what is the hate for tab targeting, i like tagb targeting cause you know MMOs have this thing called lag which makes the whole action based targeting on LARGE raids and such a extream pain.

    i just dont understand what all the hate is, do people fill they need to turn MMORPGs into a shooter or action game, there are plenty of those out there go play them, let MMOs have a interface and system that ACTULLY WORKS.

    I hope some of them understand that the game has soft tab targeting.  As long as you're within the area of the hit box,  projectiles will hit the enemy which I enjoy a lot more than a pure twitch based game that can be an utter failure if the lag cannot be controlled.  *cough cough Tera Nexus.  

    Funny thing is, Tera is also soft targetted. A lot of fans like to pretend that it's not, but if you test the retical system you will hit provided you get the area approximately correct.

    Pretty much all MMOs have to be this way (to some degree) to deal w/ performance issues. Even games like PS2 have this, though it's much more hidden than other games.

    I never understood where all the elitism over targetting mechanics came from, as the difference between targetting mechanics in most of these action-combat games is minimal -to- non existant.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ragnarockk

    Oh something else that struck me as odd.  Having to explain over and over again to people that no we're not an open group right now, that no we're nowhere near the entrance of the zone and no we're not coming back for them right now. 

    You see, they have this thing called "open groups" in this game.  Anybody can just join your group without asking.  Unless you specifically close your group.  So you're halfway done a zone, and somebody pops in and starts following you, mobs pop on them, and they die, then they ask you if you'll come back for them...  they never asked to join in the first place.  Because it was beta, most of the time, if we're close to the beginning, it wasn't an issue, hey, the more the merrier.  But it was such a pain when people who were nowhere nearby or not even in the right instance would just appear in your group list.  Then ask "where are you guys?" after trying to find you. 

    I'm not sure how I feel about that yet.  On one hand it breaks the ice, on the other, I wonder if it's exploitable.

    Haven't had a chance to test it yet (will be in the next beta), but open grouping generally isn't that big of a deal. It's even a good thing when you're on the other end of it (trying to do a dungeon that noone wants to do atm). The simple solution sounds to be just close your group once you start the dungeon. I'd imagine that's not all that difficult to do?

  • LaromussLaromuss vancouver, BCPosts: 324Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by aesperus
    Originally posted by Laross
    Originally posted by Squeak69

    ok got to ask this what is the hate for tab targeting, i like tagb targeting cause you know MMOs have this thing called lag which makes the whole action based targeting on LARGE raids and such a extream pain.

    i just dont understand what all the hate is, do people fill they need to turn MMORPGs into a shooter or action game, there are plenty of those out there go play them, let MMOs have a interface and system that ACTULLY WORKS.

    I hope some of them understand that the game has soft tab targeting.  As long as you're within the area of the hit box,  projectiles will hit the enemy which I enjoy a lot more than a pure twitch based game that can be an utter failure if the lag cannot be controlled.  *cough cough Tera Nexus.  

    Funny thing is, Tera is also soft targetted. A lot of fans like to pretend that it's not, but if you test the retical system you will hit provided you get the area approximately correct.

    Pretty much all MMOs have to be this way (to some degree) to deal w/ performance issues. Even games like PS2 have this, though it's much more hidden than other games.

    I never understood where all the elitism over targetting mechanics came from, as the difference between targetting mechanics in most of these action-combat games is minimal -to- non existant.

    though in Neverwinter if you have them targeted once, you can hold down the button and it will auto aim within a certain angle and also aim assist your mouse a bit to center on the mob.  Its pretty much tab targetting but they have removed the tab button and replaced it with your mouse aim instead but require you to keep aiming within a certain area to keep the target in tab target mode.  

    I agree I don't understand the elitism either, both have its benefits and disadvantages and should be used according to if it makes the game more enjoyable, enhances the mechanics and also fits within the context of the overal design of the game. 

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Laross

    though in Neverwinter if you have them targeted once, you can hold down the button and it will auto aim within a certain angle and also aim assist your mouse a bit to center on the mob.  Its pretty much tab targetting but they have removed the tab button and replaced it with your mouse aim instead but require you to keep aiming within a certain area to keep the target in tab target mode.

    Certain skills in TERA do this exact same thing. They basically become homing missles. Furthermore some of the attacks will appear to fire directly at your cursor, but if people say 'walk into it' after it's fired, they don't get hit, but people who were already under the cursor at the time will.

    I wouldn't be surprised if TERA does a better job at hiding it, but little things like that give you a peak as to what's actually happening under the hood.

  • JDogg126JDogg126 Southeast, MIPosts: 44Member

    Just few words to the OP.

    At some point the genre needs to offer something different.  It's not necessary that every single MMO have 10 action bars, hundreds of key bindable macros, unit frames for focus/target of target units, etc.  I'm sure it's tragedy that there is no ct_bossmod addon to tell everyone in a group when to GTFO and when to stop attacking too.  That doesn't mean that it's not going to be possible to organize a large group though.  It just means things will need to be done differently.  A long time ago before there was all the wacky automation and fancy pants unit frames there were MMO's with 80+ person raids and they organized just fine.  The key is adapting to the mechanics of the game as players have been doing since the 90's.

    The bulk of the OP is subjective opinion used to pan the game which is fine however it's pretty presumptuous to discount the opinions of others as "unqualified" just because you see things differently.  There is no inherent right or wrong.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JDogg126

    Just few words to the OP.

    At some point the genre needs to offer something different.  It's not necessary that every single MMO have 10 action bars, hundreds of key bindable macros, unit frames for focus/target of target units, etc.  I'm sure it's tragedy that there is no ct_bossmod addon to tell everyone in a group when to GTFO and when to stop attacking too.  That doesn't mean that it's not going to be possible to organize a large group though.  It just means things will need to be done differently.  A long time ago before there was all the wacky automation and fancy pants unit frames there were MMO's with 80+ person raids and they organized just fine.  The key is adapting to the mechanics of the game as players have been doing since the 90's.

    The bulk of the OP is subjective opinion used to pan the game which is fine however it's pretty presumptuous to discount the opinions of others as "unqualified" just because you see things differently.  There is no inherent right or wrong.

    Just to add to that, a lot of what the OP seems to be griping on are features that even the first D&DO never had to begin with. Based on what I've seen so far, Neverwinter is keeping much more true to the first DDO (though I could be wrong). They even have player driven side missions you can do.

    It certainly doesn't look like that MMO to replace all MMOs, but for what it is, so far it doesn't look bad at all.

  • JDogg126JDogg126 Southeast, MIPosts: 44Member
    Originally posted by Ragnarockk

    The only person whining here is you, about me.  I was telling other players what I thought of a game, on a forum, which exists for that purpose.  We are sharing information.  You're insulting me for it.  Does it make you feel good?   Well, like you said, to each his own.  Whenever you have info, step up, man.

    In fairness the OP came off as an esoteric dissertation on the critical flaws of the game that will doom it to failure as if there was some authoritative source to actually judge such things by.

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