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WHO said it couldn't be done?

13

Comments

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by jimdandy26
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle Game with good AI, who would have thunk?
    Assuming of course that it IS good AI. Neither Zenimax nor Bethesda have shown the ability to even remotely come close to decent AI.

    QFT

    As fun as the games were the AI was usually far easy. I felt like the AI was dumb so they just made the NPCs hit 6x harder if you turned the difficulty up rather than have it play smarter.

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by cronius77
    this was done just to appaise the crybabies about being locked to a factional zone. Its a decent compromise , but in the end those babies will still be crying like they do in every single game they play. There is people in the thread already crying more about it isnt enough . Games need to stick to their guns more and stop listening to the vocal minority on forums.

    It's tricky. I think it depends on the game but the more popular the game is the less the devs should listen to the forums because if you try to make everyone happy you end up with a hand holding pele of watered down garbage. The same can be said for all art, movies, etc. Making everyone happy always hurts the overall product. It's better to be great at something and listen to a dedicated core than trying to make the masses happy.

  • NikopolNikopol The ZonePosts: 626Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by cronius77
    this was done just to appaise the crybabies about being locked to a factional zone. Its a decent compromise , but in the end those babies will still be crying like they do in every single game they play. There is people in the thread already crying more about it isnt enough . Games need to stick to their guns more and stop listening to the vocal minority on forums.

    First, vocal minorities can shape nations, so they should not be ignored.

    And second, gaming forums are not minorities in MMOs any more. This is not 2005. :)

     

  • CrazyhorsekCrazyhorsek LisboaPosts: 244Member Uncommon

    well...

    1. You can only do it at level cap

    2. You can only see players from your faction in other faction's lands - and other faction's players wont see you on their PvE - no interaction no friendly /wave /hug /love and no gank.

    3. The zones scale with level - so "their" starting zones will be "my level" zones

    4. I will only see your face in cyrodiil.

    I guess I can agree with that...

     

    What I do not agree with is that I have to wait a full year because a bunch of whiners... that is what I dont agree with. Just because you cant roll a freakin alt... you're making the game delay a FULL YEAR... wow... I'm ... seriously I dont have words for people who actually get happy with this kind of crap...

    image
  • JasonJJasonJ New Port Richey, FLPosts: 395Member
    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/19/the-elder-scrolls-online-interview-paul-sage/

    Read it and amaze yourselves doomsayers...

    Who knows - you might even be moved enough to say you were wrong..?

    ... I doubt it of course - but it would be nice to prove me wrong eh!? :)

     Huh?

    How does this make them wrong? its still not open world, you still cant go anywhere and do anything when you want like in an open world...its still funneled content, the realms are still closed off...we cant go to another realm and be in that realm with that realms players...we still cant chose our own faction, its forced via racial choice.

    All the limitations we dont want are still there...all they are giving us now is more funneled content controlling how we play the game.

    But, it sure is nice reading some of the hardcore DaoC fans cry about how they lost their realm pride...lol, forced pride dies easy.

  • radzyn1radzyn1 bowdoin, MEPosts: 5Member
    I hope by the time you unlock the third faction area  (new game++) the questing is so hard it forces full groups. It could be like  leveling was in EQ, or like an entire map of hard mode dungeon.  Should be great for us that don't really do alts, if it takes 200 hours to level to 50 it will take at least 600 to beat everything.
  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,838Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by cronius77
    this was done just to appaise the crybabies about being locked to a factional zone. Its a decent compromise , but in the end those babies will still be crying like they do in every single game they play. There is people in the thread already crying more about it isnt enough . Games need to stick to their guns more and stop listening to the vocal minority on forums.

    yep, people on the gaming forums will always find something new to complain about when it comes to high profile games like this.

    this game may not last for years (and i don't think any game will anymore) but i cant wait to try it myself, hopefully it lasts me more than 3 or 4 months. :)


  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,501Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JasonJ
    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/19/the-elder-scrolls-online-interview-paul-sage/

    Read it and amaze yourselves doomsayers...

    Who knows - you might even be moved enough to say you were wrong..?

    ... I doubt it of course - but it would be nice to prove me wrong eh!? :)

     Huh?

    How does this make them wrong? its still not open world, you still cant go anywhere and do anything when you want like in an open world...its still funneled content, the realms are still closed off...we cant go to another realm and be in that realm with that realms players...we still cant chose our own faction, its forced via racial choice.

    All the limitations we dont want are still there...all they are giving us now is more funneled content controlling how we play the game.

    But, it sure is nice reading some of the hardcore DaoC fans cry about how they lost their realm pride...lol, forced pride dies easy.

    He's referring to the people that were against them doing anything to open up the game. He actually made a thread that proposed to open up the world somewhat using a similar design as what they chose. A few the of fans of the game were vehemently against the idea to the point that they were saying anyone that would like to see the game changed were being disrespectful to the developers and were limiting their freedom or some rubbish. Some were even ranting about how utterly stupid the idea was and attempted to prove why (but came up very short).

     

    I doubt you'll see any threads about how bad this decision was, however. Most likely, after today, they'll just never speak of it again.

     

    I think there are a lot of people that want the things you list. I personally view this as a step in the right direction, but still find the race selection overly restrictive. I'm not going to let is disuede from playing the game though.

  • Squeak69Squeak69 Colorado Springs, COPosts: 956Member
    i still dont care about how its set up ether way, until i play the game myself to see what its like. i just hope this gets people to stop argueing over the subject, but i have a filling its just going to fna the flames and the argueing which had subsided mostly will start all over agian with demands for the world to be open from the start.

    F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used toimage
    Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,838Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by colddog04
     I think there are a lot of people that want the things you list. I personally view this as a step in the right direction, but still find the race selection overly restrictive. I'm not going to let is disuede from playing the game though.

    people want this game to change to a sandbox and it just isn't going to happen, no amount of complaining is going to change that.

    to me, the racial lock is the most concerning aspect of this game overall, much more than simply not being able to explore an entire PVE world with one character, especially if each area is huge with tons of areas to explore already.

    but i mainly see it as a problem for large guilds who all have to roll the same three races in order to play together.

  • Yyrkoon_PoMYyrkoon_PoM Reseda, CAPosts: 150Member

    I am not sure we can reliably say why the change was made (unless you are on the dev team) . Games change all the time and it is the small print everytime you log into any MMO "Your gameplay experience may change at any time" or something to that effect.

    I would not be surprised if the change was made after some executive checked out the play test and said why can't I go to zone X if I am a nord? Next thing you know some email marked important gets sent around the house and then all hell breaks loose and the change is made.  I am not saying that the Zenimax doesn't read boards and figure out what the pulse of the people is, but to say that is the only reason the change was made may not be entirely accurate.  I've seen a company flush hundred of thousands of $ worth of work down the drain because a VP did not like the way it looked.

  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,838Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Yyrkoon_PoM
    I am not sure we can reliably say why the change was made (unless you are on the dev team) . Games change all the time and it is the small print everytime you log into any MMO "Your gameplay experience may change at any time" or something to that effect.I would not be surprised if the change was made after some executive checked out the play test and said why can't I go to zone X if I am a nord? Next thing you know some email marked important gets sent around the house and then all hell breaks loose and the change is made.  I am not saying that the Zenimax doesn't read boards and figure out what the pulse of the people is, but to say that is the only reason the change was made may not be entirely accurate.  I've seen a company flush hundred of thousands of $ worth of work down the drain because a VP did not like the way it looked.

    i am not so sure this is them "giving in to whiners" as much as them figuring out a way to keep people playing at max level other than PVE raiding and cyrodiil pvp.

    i think if implemented correctly, this could be very cool. lets assume that it is a shard just for high level players and you cannot see the lower level enemy players running around.

    they could put in quests that have you raid towns with higher level enemy faction NPC's defending as well as have high level pvp for the people that choose it in their "survey"

    it would also add to "realm pride" if you can go to your own areas and help defend from those players as well.

    what always gets me is people read one answer from a dev then automatically start complaining that its a stupid idea without knowing what exactly they are going to implement and how fun it will be.

    this could actually become a very innovated and fun endgame feature and i am interested to see how it turns out.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,463Member Uncommon

    I have been thinking of this announcement and I have to say of all the compermises they could make to keep DAoC model intact and at the same time give TES fans the ability to go anywhere, this has to be the best option they could have done. Not only does it keep PvP focused on the AvA map and let PvE players have their space but it also gives PvE players 2 whole areas just for end game content. How often do you hear, "You know whats wrong with this game? To much elder game!!!"

    If they can pull this off it could be the PvE Cyrodiil. Taking out outpost and small towns in the border area could be for solo and team content. Taking out the leader of a faction could be a 40 man raid. Think about you and 40 of your friends taking out Jorunn The Skald-King. That could be really fun!!!! I hope thats what they are shootng for because IMO that could take faction pride to a whole new level even DAoC did not do!!!!


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    gives PvE players 2 whole areas just for end game content. How often do you hear, "You know whats wrong with this game? To much elder game!!!" 

    That was a brilliant move on their part.

  • hMJemhMJem Marysville, WAPosts: 465Member

    I thought Paul Sage said in an interview just today "Well, we want raiding to give good gear, because, well, that's the point of raiding right so you can get good gear" and laughed because he was talking about how you can craft great gear.

     

    I thought there was already discussion of heroic type dungeons and Raids? They've used the term raid multiple times, and I assume they are smart enough to know "raiding with your guild" isnt a 4 person dungeon.

     

    It sounds like this game is doing a great job of making the leveling experience memorable/not a drag, and also focusing on end-game. They said "Max Level is where things really open up" so I assume they want raiding/PvP to be a big thing. And for those who dont like either, they can just explore the other factions and quest up there and do what they want.

     

    They arent stupid. At the end of the day this is an MMO. There will be raids as they've said. No good end-game = no longevtivity.  And if its Subscription pay to play, its the hardcore that will play the longest.

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by hMJem

    It sounds like this game is doing a great job of making the leveling experience memorable/not a drag, and also focusing on end-game. They said "Max Level is where things really open up" so I assume they want raiding/PvP to be a big thing. And for those who dont like either, they can just explore the other factions and quest up there and do what they want.

     It does open have potential.  They could add world PvP objectives, quests and a whole slew of minor factions to support.  Alternative activities in addition to raiding and RvR can be a great thing.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,915Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by colddog04

    He's referring to the people that were against them doing anything to open up the game. He actually made a thread that proposed to open up the world somewhat using a similar design as what they chose. A few the of fans of the game were vehemently against the idea to the point that they were saying anyone that would like to see the game changed were being disrespectful to the developers and were limiting their freedom or some rubbish. Some were even ranting about how utterly stupid the idea was and attempted to prove why (but came up very short).

     

    I doubt you'll see any threads about how bad this decision was, however. Most likely, after today, they'll just never speak of it again.

     

    I think there are a lot of people that want the things you list. I personally view this as a step in the right direction, but still find the race selection overly restrictive. I'm not going to let is disuede from playing the game though.

    The thing is the Op's suggestion had little point, that's what (as you said it earlier) he was "blasted for by fanboys". His idea and another's were simply features that allowed the ability to see lands yet do little within them. That is not similar to what they are doing here, they're bringing harder versions of the content into play at 50, that's a huge difference.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member
    Originally posted by cronius77
    this was done just to appaise the crybabies about being locked to a factional zone. Its a decent compromise , but in the end those babies will still be crying like they do in every single game they play. There is people in the thread already crying more about it isnt enough . Games need to stick to their guns more and stop listening to the vocal minority on forums.

    You expect to be taken seriously with posts like this?

    By your own logic - you are a 'crybaby' 'whining' about those of us pleased with the compromise!

    I am pretty much THE most vocal person on this issue on these forums - and I am quite satisfied with the balanced response to widespread concerns they have taken - ergo, no more 'crying'.

    In fact - I congratulate Zenimax on seeing the wood for the trees and making a change to remedy what the IP fans widely saw as a fundamental problem.

    The main problem in my opinion (and in many other peoples opinions) is now being tackled and we are mostly reasonable enough to be satisifed with it.

    So don't put words in our mouths...

  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by colddog04

    He's referring to the people that were against them doing anything to open up the game. He actually made a thread that proposed to open up the world somewhat using a similar design as what they chose. A few the of fans of the game were vehemently against the idea to the point that they were saying anyone that would like to see the game changed were being disrespectful to the developers and were limiting their freedom or some rubbish. Some were even ranting about how utterly stupid the idea was and attempted to prove why (but came up very short).

     

    I doubt you'll see any threads about how bad this decision was, however. Most likely, after today, they'll just never speak of it again.

     

    I think there are a lot of people that want the things you list. I personally view this as a step in the right direction, but still find the race selection overly restrictive. I'm not going to let is disuede from playing the game though.

    The thing is the Op's suggestion had little point, that's what (as you said it earlier) he was "blasted for by fanboys". His idea and another's were simply features that allowed the ability to see lands yet do little within them. That is not similar to what they are doing here, they're bringing harder versions of the content into play at 50, that's a huge difference.

    The suggestion on that thread was an attempt at a compromise position - not exactly what I wanted. It was however rather more than you are suggesting Distopia. I wanted content in thiose areas as well - even if it was more limited that that available to faction members.

    This was also done to see what the arguments could possibly be against a small change from the 'stuck records' who didn't want it becasue of a preconceived notion that anything done would 'ruin' their game...

    It is nice to see Zenimax being creative with their megaserver technology and giving everyone at least sme of what they want on both sides of the argument.

    Some of the 'con' crowd simply don't understand it makes no difference to the 3-way PvP they have been blindly defending - there is already a locked post on this with one such blinkered and misaimed argument.

    Anyway, as I said, this is a great change and if done as they propose it to be, will add positively to the game and detract nothing.

  • Caliburn101Caliburn101 LondonPosts: 636Member
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    I have been thinking of this announcement and I have to say of all the compermises they could make to keep DAoC model intact and at the same time give TES fans the ability to go anywhere, this has to be the best option they could have done. Not only does it keep PvP focused on the AvA map and let PvE players have their space but it also gives PvE players 2 whole areas just for end game content. How often do you hear, "You know whats wrong with this game? To much elder game!!!"

    If they can pull this off it could be the PvE Cyrodiil. Taking out outpost and small towns in the border area could be for solo and team content. Taking out the leader of a faction could be a 40 man raid. Think about you and 40 of your friends taking out Jorunn The Skald-King. That could be really fun!!!! I hope thats what they are shootng for because IMO that could take faction pride to a whole new level even DAoC did not do!!!!

    Nice to see you on board Nan - I agree - their solution is well thought out and has great potential.

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon
    While the compromise seems like a good one, it still won't appease the people who wanted to play the entire game as the race of their choice and still be able to game with their friends or guildmates. (well, not until level 50)

    So some people still will be unhappy but there probably isn't a good way to make the changes they are looking for.

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • asrlohzasrlohz UddevallaPosts: 645Member
    Originally posted by Caliburn101

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/19/the-elder-scrolls-online-interview-paul-sage/

    Read it and amaze yourselves doomsayers...

    Who knows - you might even be moved enough to say you were wrong..?

    ... I doubt it of course - but it would be nice to prove me wrong eh!? :)

    Fantastic - looks like Zenimax have ears after all. There is a rumour of a delay to launch until March 2014 - perhaps t make the necessary changes?... but that doesn't matter either way.

    The TES fans get to eventually explore everywhere with one toon at level 50 and the PvP fans get their unsullied 3-way goodness and they sit next to each other without a problem...

    ... I couldn't be more satisifed about the content of this interview.

    Hello.

    Thank you all for your support. Since you already made a post about this I figured I might as well quote you, zealous defender of the faith. Whilst our petition was small, there were several others who succeeded at peaking Zenimax's attention. I'm not sure if we had anything to do with it, but we might have had some impact.

    I've spent this morning laughing at all the "doomsayers" and whilst I'm not sure if the game will be any good I am sure that even then it will be worth my money. Even SWTOR was worthwhile just to explore Tatooine. I hope to see you all in game, especially those who were valiant enough to defend our cause, and not claim that nothing could be changed. We proved them wrong.

     

    Cheers! And once again, thank you for your support. Those involved will know what I've been speaking about.

    image
  • Alber_gamerAlber_gamer RomePosts: 557Member Uncommon

    After the Diablo3/Guild Wars2 failures, overhyping a game before anyone has played it based on the words of developpers that obviously are trying as hard as they can to sell you their game.

     

    WHO said it couldn't be done?

    My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,915Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Caliburn101
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by colddog04

    He's referring to the people that were against them doing anything to open up the game. He actually made a thread that proposed to open up the world somewhat using a similar design as what they chose. A few the of fans of the game were vehemently against the idea to the point that they were saying anyone that would like to see the game changed were being disrespectful to the developers and were limiting their freedom or some rubbish. Some were even ranting about how utterly stupid the idea was and attempted to prove why (but came up very short).

     

    I doubt you'll see any threads about how bad this decision was, however. Most likely, after today, they'll just never speak of it again.

     

    I think there are a lot of people that want the things you list. I personally view this as a step in the right direction, but still find the race selection overly restrictive. I'm not going to let is disuede from playing the game though.

    The thing is the Op's suggestion had little point, that's what (as you said it earlier) he was "blasted for by fanboys". His idea and another's were simply features that allowed the ability to see lands yet do little within them. That is not similar to what they are doing here, they're bringing harder versions of the content into play at 50, that's a huge difference.

    The suggestion on that thread was an attempt at a compromise position - not exactly what I wanted. It was however rather more than you are suggesting Distopia. I wanted content in thiose areas as well - even if it was more limited that that available to faction members.

    This was also done to see what the arguments could possibly be against a small change from the 'stuck records' who didn't want it becasue of a preconceived notion that anything done would 'ruin' their game...

    It is nice to see Zenimax being creative with their megaserver technology and giving everyone at least sme of what they want on both sides of the argument.

    Some of the 'con' crowd simply don't understand it makes no difference to the 3-way PvP they have been blindly defending - there is already a locked post on this with one such blinkered and misaimed argument.

    Anyway, as I said, this is a great change and if done as they propose it to be, will add positively to the game and detract nothing.

    As I said in your as well as Sap's threads, your ideas weren't really a fix for what those who were complaining about the faction lock issues disliked. While this isn't exactly that, as there's still a wall to traverse to reach it, it's there to experience with one toon now, this is in tune with the fix that was wanted. If I remember correctly your suggestion had some content, but it was more on the side of exploration (special vendors and the like, loot to find, etc) rather than seeing what the other side had to offer.

     Most responses to your topic(s) were along the lines of "it seems like a lot to ask for", which suggests to me people simply didn't expect them to listen. You act as though everyone tried to throw you under a bus. There's a common theme for many gamers, they don't like developers attempting to please all, which is understandable. Things have gone horribly wrong in the past due to this.

    (not directed at OP, but later replies)

    This is the thing i hate most about forums in general, these types of victimization in the face of victory posts. No one is victimizing you, at worst they're just cynical due to what many perceive as a defunct genre, that's lost it's way. With dev teams that care for nothing but money and never listen. Many of you seemed to feel this way about Zenimax if i recall correctly. There's been a lot said by everyone over the last few months, if everyone turned around and made a thread about what they got right this forum would be nothing but that.

     

     

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member

    It is a very good change indeed but not the ideal change (imo). It would be better that they open up the world for PvP as well and not just PvE, but on separate PvP servers (to avoid crying from PvE'ers). Probably their so called "mega server" technology would not allow that but for me that would be more ideal as PvP is the natural endgame for me and being restricted in just one zone for that, kind of cheapens the experience.

    But still, a good change.

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