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Originally posted by bloodaxes Originally posted by tintilinic Originally posted by bloodaxes Nah don't generalize all mmos are like that because even the crappy wizardry online which is what I'm currently playing has a more fun replay value than this if you like specializing your characters for different roles despite it's obvious flaws and glitches.
And GW2 is great for people that dont want simplistic approach of specializing and being stuck in only 1 role or simplistic combat with set in stone roles.
To each their own, some prefer more complexity in their games though.
The fact is it's simple.
There's no choice of skills in weapons only in traits which some are pretty good not to have equipped so lessens even more choice.
In wizardry you can class change and inherit some skills from said class even passives, when you level up you get random stat ups not fixed and magic and healing require different stats just like thieves require more dex than strength for their skill damage.
It's more min maxing than straight forward but I like it more than the simplistic version of gw2 because I really hate how they made the skills options from weapons to fill exactly all the hotkey bar.
just shows gw2 takes the minimalist route with skills(even though overall you have a damn big pool of total skills considering you have no fireball 1, 2 ,3 ,4 ,5 like many other games)... but when does # of overall skills = how difficult and complex a game is?.. it may be too restricted and limited in the amount of skills for osme people but you still have tons of options in how you play most classes.. each class has numerous builds and ways to play the class depending on weapons/traits/sigils/runes/equipment loadout.. i've gone through this many times but at 80 i can play my mesmer pretty much however I want.. i can go high burst, i can go condition, i can go full survivability, i could go mantra healing build, i can do stealth focues, melee focused, all ranged. I have numerous ways to use my clones in a variety of situations depending what weapons I have equiped and what my loadout is. Just because I'm limited in skills doesn not overly limit me to the amount of ways I can play the class. I found especially once you hit 60+ every class has a lot of differn't playstyles depending how you want to play the class
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Your fact is simply not a fact.
There is NO class limited to "a" weapon and thus NOT limited to skills. In fact, if you look at the actual NUMBER of total skills to choose from, it surpases most games released in the last 6 years.
My hunter has 4 weapons with 5 different skill sets, these sets are VASTLY different and for DIFFERENT ROLES. My Longbow skills are a perfect ranged DPS for multi mobs with its Barrage, a small CC and a high DPS attack. Short bow provides better CC with crippling shot and cuncussion. 2hd offers decent DPS and slight off tank ability with counterattack and hilt bash for stun. Spear is a better off tank choice with dart to vuln and bleed them and counterstrike for knockback and Man O War to root.
Then there are the 3 skill weapons of Sword Axe and Dagger with 3 off-hand 2 skill items. All of these provide yet more VERY DIFFERENT options. Hell, sword with warhorn offers a great DPS + group buff option that vastly helps the group.
Either way, thats 39 different SKILLS to choose from, not including traits...you throw in Healing Spring and you can provide your group with EVERY aspect...DPS, off tank, CC, heals.
As for your ending comments...are you saying games like WoW didnt make you get different armor sets for different builds?!? Cause you did...it would be crazy if GW2 allowed you to swap out roles without also needing the different gear to do it effectively.
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So in wizardry you have to reroll so many times until RNG gives you best stats. Grrrrrrreat system lol. I wouldnt play something like that if you paid me.
And GW2 is far far away from simplistic. It goes so far that you can make a build dependant on certain type of food/vendor items if you want to. Theres so many things to choose from that its great (its soemewhat reduced in sPvP because of balance)
Aerowyn listed all the things that impact your build and you have to take all that in consideration when building to the point of individual gear piece since you have complete freedom. Theres no BiS piece of gear (it makes me laugh every time someon mentiones "BiS" in GW2)
Oh, and every stat impacts something different in GW2 so i dont see how its even relevant.
When someone says GW2 is empty, I log in and take a screenshot of dozens of people.
Currently playing: GW2Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
just finished up fractals 15.. was actually a lot of fun.. considering before this I had only done 1-5 but guildy needed help.. It was pretty frustrating at times you need to be quick to get the 3 wisps back before the time runs out.. luckily if you have a mesmer you can portal the center where the trees close off to get everyone through. Think the hardest part was the damn harpys on the jumping platforms we had 2 mesmers and a guardian all doing are reflections spaced apart but still to many of them and we kept getting knocked off but slowly picked them off and made our way up.
The golem boss was pretty fun having the two consoles you need ot charge up on either side adding a nice mechanic to the fight.. overall i'd say in a PUG it would of been a very frustrating and hard dungeon but with my guildys it was a bit challenging but a lot of fun.. really enjoying the fractals more than I thought I would
You can do this and throw it at ANY MMO ON THE MARKET in taking on group content without a group. The thing is, a lot of those games (GW2 can be included) it might NOT be possible due to the way the mechanics work in which soloing you have no tools at your disposal to allow you to do so.
Difficulty (to me) is taking content that is designed for a certain number of players and doing it with that number and having a challenge with it... a FAIR challenge mind you.
A good example in which a game does this is Tera Online. BAM are made to be for multiple people, yet the way the game has designed it, skill can play an actual factor in this. You would need to know to time your attacks and act in just the right way and with virtually any class in game you can do it (with some variences in how efficiently of course). You can't consider restrictive or bad design choices the game has in place as a 'challenge'. Just cause I can play Super Mario Bros on my NES with a power glove and its a lot more challenging doesn't mean its a fair challenge, specially when I can use a controller and its a lot better.
Its just silly to try and throw stuff by design was made for so many people and claim doing for less then it was designed for as a sign of difficulty. If so you can practically say NO GAME is a cakewalk if your playing as it wasn't intended it was to be played in terms of numbers of people doing it.
Originally posted by Purutzil You can do this and throw it at ANY MMO ON THE MARKET in taking on group content without a group. The thing is, a lot of those games (GW2 can be included) it might NOT be possible due to the way the mechanics work in which soloing you have no tools at your disposal to allow you to do so. Difficulty (to me) is taking content that is designed for a certain number of players and doing it with that number and having a challenge with it... a FAIR challenge mind you. A good example in which a game does this is Tera Online. BAM are made to be for multiple people, yet the way the game has designed it, skill can play an actual factor in this. You would need to know to time your attacks and act in just the right way and with virtually any class in game you can do it (with some variences in how efficiently of course). You can't consider restrictive or bad design choices the game has in place as a 'challenge'. Just cause I can play Super Mario Bros on my NES with a power glove and its a lot more challenging doesn't mean its a fair challenge, specially when I can use a controller and its a lot better. Its just silly to try and throw stuff by design was made for so many people and claim doing for less then it was designed for as a sign of difficulty. If so you can practically say NO GAME is a cakewalk if your playing as it wasn't intended it was to be played in terms of numbers of people doing it.
think you are missing the point.. only reason I said in the OP for someone to show me a video of them soloing a catherdral event is because I have seen numerous post say anything in this game is so easy you could auto attack your way through anything.. it was more of a rhetorical request. Doing the cathedral events with the intended amount of players 10-15 is actually still a good challenge for most groups. Think one of the main things in this game not many(who played only near launch) have actually done much of the content with the "intended" number of people. At launch you could hardly find a event anywhere without an extreme over saturation of people. In turn everything was dead easy as the events don't scale infinitely. Now again i'm not trying to claim this game is hard it's not a non stop frustratingly hard experience like dark souls is(to me at least) but there is plenty of challenging content when done with the "intended" amount of people when compared to the other MMOs of the past several years. I will also admit a lot has to do with learning to adapt to a non-trinity based game. Much like the trinity games though once you know the dungeon/content inside and out it becomes a breeze but this goes for any MMO i have played
Pretty much. Simple doesn't equal "not hard" or "cakewalk". At the end of the day GW2 has zero depth. You have extremely limited choice. The same skills you have in your 30s you have at 60. As I always said, it is the MMO with the least amount of keybinds and choice in abilites and that is really not a good thing. You can't even change the keybinds to these abilites. I think they tried to satisfy the least common denominator for this game as it was supposed to be an MMO for "everyone", but when they did that they made it way too simple.
One of the more "complicated" things people bring up in regards to skill is the "dodge" which is quite amusing. Depth is important, because without depth games get stale and boring quickly, which is what GW2 became.
Originally posted by jtcgs
But the problem with that is that these "skills" overlap. Sword and Axes have the same damage abilites the animation and weapon might be different. There is no point using both as they overlap. So saying "different" is not actually true.
Another thing about GW2 combat as I said before is the lack of conditional abilities. If a person is running away you are limited in what you can do. In other games I can name half a dozen things you can do to slow down, stop, or catch up to the person running away. Even in terms of CC, they removed the depth and choice other MMOs have.
I fear TESO will follow the same path, hopefully not.
Just let it go it's not worth continuing this argument.
Some people won't agree that the game has flaws in it's system.
(Ps. Being forced to switch weapons for more skills doesn't mean the game has more skills options when I just want to use dagger and pistol on mesmer)
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Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Originally posted by SoMuchMass Originally posted by jtcgs
Swords and axes have the same skills?!?
Why do people talk about depth of games that they don't know?
Originally posted by bloodaxes Just let it go it's not worth continuing this argument. Some people won't agree that the game has flaws in it's system. (Ps. Being forced to switch weapons for more skills doesn't mean the game has more skills options when I just want to use dagger and pistol on mesmer)
So what you mean is that you don't want to choose.
So now we are going to turn words eh?
Nowere in that message I said that.
You are limited on x skills per weapon so they fill hotkey exactly with no variety from lvl 1 to 80, there is NO way to change those unless you switch weapons which is not what I want to do.
Why can't I on my mesmer for example focus more on the pistol than the sword or vice versa? Or why must sword in off hand have to be about blocking instead of damage too? I can't choose what to place on the hotkey you are forced by the weapons even if you don't like some of them.
Originally posted by bloodaxes So now we are going to turn words eh? Nowere in that message I said that. -- You are limited on x skills per weapon so they fill hotkey exactly with no variety from lvl 1 to 80, there is NO way to change those unless you switch weapons which is not what I want to do. Why can't I on my mesmer for example focus more on the pistol than the sword or vice versa? Or why must sword in off hand have to be about blocking instead of damage too? I can't choose what to place on the hotkey you are forced by the weapons even if you don't like some of them.
It is the game system and every game has some sort of limitations.
Why can't a healer in wow also tank and deal damage?
I mean why does it have to be about healing, taking or damage?
Why do you have to specialize in wizardry?
Why in magic the gathering cards cost different types of mana making me have to choose one or two colours to build my deck (unless it is one of the special blocks built around having multi color decks)? Why can I only use 4 cards of each (with basic lands being the exception)?
Why in TSW can't I heal using a hammer and sword combo?
Every game has restrictions and games without restrctions end up being the worst ones.
So you refuse to use the full skill range available to your char, and then you pretend there aren't many skills in the game.
You definitely should just let it go as you said in your post, because what you say here really doesn't make any sense.
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If you ever played guild wars 1 you would know what sort of skill system it was before guild wars 2 came limiting skills per weapon with no extra choice unless you switch weapons.
Originally posted by bloodaxes If you ever played guild wars 1 you would know what sort of skill system it was before guild wars 2 came limiting skills per weapon with no extra choice unless you switch weapons. [mod edit]
If you also played GW1 you would also know that regardless of the skill system, in fact the number of good builds was very small.
So yes, in GW1 you would have the choice to run a few optimal builds or run bad builds.
Before the update to Mesmers, Ritualists and Dervishes, all of what these classes could do was just outmatched by other classes.
Rangers and Paragons have exactly 0 and 1 build for PvE that are better than other classes.
A skill system like GW1 is really fun while everyone is just figuring how the game works - once you know how it works though, it is clear that a majority of the skills are just inferior to others and becomes frustating see GW1 players running with ressurect in their builds 7 years after the game came out or running with self heals.
Why didn't classes have hundreds of viable builds in GW1 with such an amazing choice of skills? Why did they have even fewer builds than their GW2 counterparts?
The choice of gimping yourself is no choice at all.
Originally posted by bloodaxes All this thread will make is showing more how you can't accept any criticism on the game. Just because 1-2 maps have some hard events doesn't make the game hard.
there are some hard instances(some paths are really dificult), people really needs to know the tactic and have skill or its a huge wipefeast (all paths explor at Arah, CoEternity path 2 and 3, and some on HotW), dragons are all easy if theres 20+ people (i never made with less- they should raise the difficulty for all of them as they was fixing on Orr temple of gods).
Originally posted by jtcgs Originally posted by bloodaxes All this thread will make is showing more how you can't accept any criticism on the game. Just because 1-2 maps have some hard events doesn't make the game hard.
Please host a video of you playing a bunker elementalist correctly. Until then, you dont know how difficult the game is. 1 single player can hold a group long enough for his team to take an objective elsewhere or stop a place from being taken long enough for people to come help.
Just look at how long 1 single person can hold up 10+ when they know WTF they are doing...you dont know this, because you just couldnt figure it out. No doubt at all in my mind that you and perhaps even your entire guild couldnt figure out healing and tanking in instances or how to do the larger events in Orr with less than 20 people...
those red mesmers plays like xit!, man they even use 1 time a dispel on boons, bunkers are annoying when well played but those guys was clueless about it period.
Originally posted by pointchiz I don't need to prove anything to you. You can take what I say and disregard it or see it for yourself. I actually do hope you see it for yourself. There's really nothing to see and nothing to experience. It's a shallow gameplay system that requires ZERO strategy development.
man its obvious that you never did a instance on this game or you was in a group that did it for you and you was clueless about it (it happens to me on first paths experiences), after you understand the tactic/skill that requires to pass some bosses (CoE or Arah by example), you will like it and enjoy the game.
Maybe you should leave it to the people who actually played GW2 to review and discuss GW2's most basic game mechanics.
I know what I will do. Today I will criticize a game that I know very little about. I will make broad, sweeping statements about how bad the combat is. Does it matter that I dont know what I'm talking about? Not at all.
Nope, nothing could possibly go wrong.
Originally posted by Maephisto Originally posted by SoMuchMass Originally posted by jtcgs
Nope, nothing could possibly go wrong.
Reason why this forum needs moderators who actually PLAY the game they moderate the forums of, so they can easily detect the nonsense spewing trolls and eliminate them. But that's a dream, won't happen.