Thing is, there is just so little info at this point on how the game is really going to coalesce. People keep quoting the same paragraph where MJ talks about how he will approach leveling differently, and they are using it as justification for their stance on BG's not being necessary. The quote is taken out of context, repeatedly, due to the vague nature of what MJ is telling us. No one knows how the leveling/skill/progression/RvR system is really going to pan out, so how can you use that as a foundation to say, "This is how the game is going to be, so X isn't needed". Even more interesting, are the people who latch onto that and follow it up with, "That's not the way CU is going to be. If you want DAoC, then play that and CU is not for you." Really, guys? C'mon.
It's one thing to say you aren't interested in the BG's. Great, you didn't play them and you preferred lvl 50 RvR. But, please don't create ficition to back up your opinion:
It'll split the community
Its a small team so resources should be for the core game
CU is going to be like THIS so the BG's won't fit in
BG's in DAoC didn't split the community. Ever. I think MJ knows better than the forum community how his resources will be allocated, so trying to speak for him is asanine. And, finally, the game is still on paper and in the minds of MJ's team. If they are still chewing over ideas, then CU as an entity certainly isn't written in stone yet, so please stop telling people who differ in opinion or vision to go away because "the game is going to be like this".
I really don't understand the vehemence of some of the people here against the BG's. It was a core aspect of DAoC that entertained a lot of people. The people that liked lvl 50 RvR went out into the frontiers and did that. The rest of us RvRed in the BG's. It worked, and it worked damn well.
I don't know if the first paragraph is aimed at me, but i would like to clarify my thought. I didn't mean to say "CU isn't DAoC, if you want to play DAoC then CU isn't for you." What i thought was "CU is a new game, don't try to turn it into a copy of DAoC because you liked it." Sorry i'm not that good at communicating.
As to if i like bgs or not, i answer yes i like them very much, the fact is i have every single of the 16 hibernian classes to the level 50, and than i got them that high before the bg quests that allow you to get to level 50 in one day were added to the game. I can tell you that i spent a lot of time in the bgs because i don't really like grinding PvE.
I'm not saying here i don't want them. I'm saying they are not needed. Out of all the argument that are in favor of the bgs, the only ones that weren't properly countered are the one i talked about just now, and the fact that newbies won't stand a chance against old players. Here is an example of what is supposed to happen if i'm not mistaken about the game :
Let's keep it simple. Each realm as only 8 players in the game, that played for years. After all that time, they pretty much attained the best way of playing they could, and so they are of equal forces. Then come on each realm 8 new players. What will give an edge to a realm over the two others? It's the rate at which those 8 new players will improve.
That's why, if the realm pride isn't messed up, the old players will have all the reasons they need to help the new players to improve the fastest way possible, and there should be limited amount of purely veteran players groups roaming around only interested in killing everything that moves. Most of the groups should have one or several new player which will allow them to have fun against groups of equal strength unless a realm has a lot more or a lot less new players.
Dear naysayers: Even if there was NO progression at all, it would be unacceptable to pit newbies against veterans. They would get crushed (repeatedly) and quit the game on day one. Now imagine what will happen with all those progression paths CU will have (if there are no BGs).
Dear naysayers: Even if there was NO progression at all, it would be unacceptable to pit newbies against veterans. They would get crushed (repeatedly) and quit the game on day one. Now imagine what will happen with all those progression paths CU will have (if there are no BGs).
I just posted to say why there won't be newbies vs veteran fights but rather newbies+veterans vs newbies+veteran fights
I know i may not be that clear but here i just feel like you ignored me plain and simple (i'm even wondering if you read any of the previous posts).
Dear naysayers: Even if there was NO progression at all, it would be unacceptable to pit newbies against veterans. They would get crushed (repeatedly) and quit the game on day one. Now imagine what will happen with all those progression paths CU will have (if there are no BGs).
Sounds like handholding.... check FP#3. The people for bgs are in disagreement with each other it seems.... a tutorial or a place for twinks to rofl stomp newbies.... it can't be both. The latter isn't needed at all. The former doesn't even apply to anyone on this forum and contradicts fp3. Assuming there isn't a power gap of course.
Dear naysayers: Even if there was NO progression at all, it would be unacceptable to pit newbies against veterans. They would get crushed (repeatedly) and quit the game on day one. Now imagine what will happen with all those progression paths CU will have (if there are no BGs).
I just posted to say why there won't be newbies vs veteran fights but rather newbies+veterans vs newbies+veteran fights
That's not how it worked in DAoC at all (and hopefully in CU too). Newbies vary rarely get into veteran groups.
I know i may not be that clear but here i just feel like you ignored me plain and simple (i'm even wondering if you read any of the previous posts).
Originally posted by Odaman
Originally posted by dynamicipftw
Dear naysayers: Even if there was NO progression at all, it would be unacceptable to pit newbies against veterans. They would get crushed (repeatedly) and quit the game on day one. Now imagine what will happen with all those progression paths CU will have (if there are no BGs).
Sounds like handholding.... check FP#3. The people for bgs are in disagreement with each other it seems.... a tutorial or a place for twinks to rofl stomp newbies.... it can't be both. The latter isn't needed at all. The former doesn't even apply to anyone on this forum and contradicts fp3. Assuming there isn't a power gap of course.
Seriously? The twink problem (which was never a problem in DAoC btw) can be solved easily in a number of ways. Also you have the wrong idea of what handholding means.
Despite the fact DAoC was a PvE/RvR style game, the early battlegrounds not only taught players how to operate as a team and how to use siege engines, it also allowed players to unlock certain realm abilities needed to make life much easier at end game.
I'm against themed battlegrounds, but I'm all for persistent battlegrounds that prepare new players for the real RvR. The BG's won't be forced on players, but it certainly needs to be optional.
My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.
I'm writing up a post regarding something else, but this vim diagram I created sorta explains why/how battlegrounds could coexist within Camelot Unchained.
RED = Arthurians
BLUE = Vikings
GREEN = Tuatha De Danann
Basically, all players have access to Open World RVR, but can also join the 'New "Level" Battlegrounds' - After a while, they'll be eligible to just the low "level" battleground, then middle, then "end game" will become available for players that just want a small map to help round out there characters before thrusted into open world RvR.
End Game BGs could be accessible to a certain "level" or it could be completely open for all players. All BGs are persistent and do not have a population cap; New 'level', low 'level' and middle level BGs should only award progression until a certain point point, then kick the player out upon death.
ALL battlegrounds introduce new elements found within World RVR to help prepare new players for the actual game.
Obviously, it needs a little refinement and I haven't reached this point in my own post as mentioned above.. but thought I'd throw it into this thread to spur some new discussion.
My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.
I just posted to say why there won't be newbies vs veteran fights but rather newbies+veterans vs newbies+veteran fights
That's not how it worked in DAoC at all (and hopefully in CU too). Newbies vary rarely get into veteran groups.
Are you implying than you hope that veterans never help newbies? Or do i have a problem understanding hopefully? Doesn't it means "let's hope"?
Did you even read my previous post? I gave a clear reason why any veterans caring for its realm would help newbies to get to a high level. I don't know how it worked in DAoC, i played it for only a few year and i have no idea how it could have been at the beginning, but i read than in the early stages, when realm hopping wasn't possible yet, the crafters were happy to help templating a new player and would work for prices that would seems too low to be worth it nowaday.
Well until there is somebody that actually read my post and react to it by showing me with clear argument a point i missed, the answer is already given.
Seriously? The twink problem (which was never a problem in DAoC btw) can be solved easily in a number of ways. Also you have the wrong idea of what handholding means.
Never a problem my ass. Buffbotted legendary using twinks would stomp people leveling like they're nothing. You apparently didn't play the game long enough to see twinks and 8mans (lol yes bg 8mans) roll over anyone who didn't do the same. You sound like the idiots who say it never split the population and that 12 people wouldn't make a difference in a fight when 8 people could kill 100. I'm done with this nonsense, watching people who have no idea wtf they're talking about make ridiculous claims about what never happened because they quit the game before it even had immunity timers =p
Originally posted by Vargur If the battlegrounds are designed as a place where 8vs8s can fight without being bothered about the adds and zergs, I can see a place for them. Personally, I prefer zerging or RvRing rather than the 8vs8 game and there doubt I will spend much time in them, but if BGs can fill a role for 8vs8s then go for it.
Actually, DAoC BG's were quite the opposite. A lot of BG regulars (myself included) hated the 8man crowd and playstyle, and went to the BG's to escape it. The BG's were fickle enough that if an 8man started dominating there enemies would quickly leave and go somewhere else. But if there was healthy competition then people stuck around. Plus most 8man's didn't like the BG's because there was no form of progression and very few iwin buttons. It was purely for the RvR fun of it. Plus there was the fact that I could take any new character I wanted to play, get them to 20, spend a few gold on a template, and go out and be 90% as effective as someone who spent 5+ plat on theirs. There are plenty of 8man's that like good healthy competition, but there are just as many that would have invaded the BG's if a 5 plat template meant they could dominate.
You are right about the DAoC BGs. I was thinking along the lines of Age of Conan BGs where groups signed up for BGs are fought in an instanced area. While I didn't like the instances in AoC I think something similar could work for 8-mans who claim they want to test their skills against each others without having to deal with adds and zergs.
I am not sure how BGs will work in CU since there are no levelling outside of RvR which is why I thought of AoC BGs.
I'm not saying here i don't want them. I'm saying they are not needed. Out of all the argument that are in favor of the bgs, the only ones that weren't properly countered are the one i talked about just now, and the fact that newbies won't stand a chance against old players. Here is an example of what is supposed to happen if i'm not mistaken about the game :
Let's keep it simple. Each realm as only 8 players in the game, that played for years. After all that time, they pretty much attained the best way of playing they could, and so they are of equal forces. Then come on each realm 8 new players. What will give an edge to a realm over the two others? It's the rate at which those 8 new players will improve.
That's why, if the realm pride isn't messed up, the old players will have all the reasons they need to help the new players to improve the fastest way possible, and there should be limited amount of purely veteran players groups roaming around only interested in killing everything that moves. Most of the groups should have one or several new player which will allow them to have fun against groups of equal strength unless a realm has a lot more or a lot less new players.
Thank you !
I'm so glad someone made this point. It won't be newbies against veterans. It will be newbies and veterans against newbies and veterans! Even two or three years down the line, there will be people making alts and new players coming into the game (hopefully).
Yes, there may be groups of veterans only, but I very much hope that there will be penalties for fighting against people who have a huge disadvantage, which should make those veteran groups look elsewhere for a fight.
With such a lack of information in relative power between a day one player and a day 300 player, there is not enough information to support a BG either way. While it may be an enjoyable playstyle for some, if the focus of the game is to have large scale RvR between factions. The idea of BGs doesn't have a reason to exists in the game.
If you are not going to play because the idea of no Thid, then you were never going to play the game in the first place as these things would not be there since it was not hinted in anyway. I personally don't feel the game need to cater to the niche of the niche in order to add a smaller battleground area for the idea of lower power levels.
Seriously? The twink problem (which was never a problem in DAoC btw) can be solved easily in a number of ways. Also you have the wrong idea of what handholding means.
Never a problem my ass. Buffbotted legendary using twinks would stomp people leveling like they're nothing. You apparently didn't play the game long enough to see twinks and 8mans (lol yes bg 8mans) roll over anyone who didn't do the same. You sound like the idiots who say it never split the population and that 12 people wouldn't make a difference in a fight when 8 people could kill 100. I'm done with this nonsense, watching people who have no idea wtf they're talking about make ridiculous claims about what never happened because they quit the game before it even had immunity timers =p
I like battlegrounds becuase sometimes controlled PvP with objectives is better, imho, than just meandering around the open world looking for mindless action. I like the concept of objectives and special mechanics that some battlegounds of various games have becuase it usually brings out a form of strategy, even for pugs. That being said, I hope CU will take a stab at doing something a little different than what we have already seen such as control point or CTF. I would still like to see a "payload" type of BG as seen in Team Fortress or Global Agenda though.
Battlegrounds , like those in DAOC, provide a practice area for learning new characters, skills and grouping with your new character. It also provides the opportunity to Jump into the game for a short period of time, without locking you down for 2-3 hours if you dont have that window of opportunity. Jumping into Big Boy rvr with a new and untried and untested character
doesnt make you a lot of friends and hurts the group dynamics if you arent familiar with it.
Overall, varying levels of BGs allow players to find a "comfort level" of playing to suit their skills and needs, thus allowing for more people to enjoy the game.
If you take the time to read my previous posts, you'll see i already countered these 3 argument
There is one about the new players not being alone vs veteran
There is one about the tutorial (that won't be handholding but teach the basics), and i can add than veteran will help complete the new player's knowledge
There is one about how you can find a lot of ways to have quick fun (gave only 2 example, but i'm sure we can find more with a little thinking)
Please read what has already been said before posting
Something that i would be curious to see is some sort BG (not instanced) for newly made characters where you can't even group, where you can try your skills versus other players from other realms and test it. a "free-for-all" mini section of the map to gain your firsts few "levels" or points from progression, whatever you wanna call it.
Of course it would only give you a small idea of how to play your character, but it would be a good place to test or even change how you personalised your character at creation. once you leave the place, there s no turning back (unless delete and restart).
It could be a small island, and when you decide to leave the training area, you board a ship and it brings you on the actual land (in your realm part of the land of course).
Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC Thurka on WAR
This island would be the tutorial, and that's where you would find the only safe zone with the capital city, the safe zone would have straw mannequin to test your positional skills as well as low level mobs to fight against something fighting back before trying to go for the other players
If you take the time to read my previous posts, you'll see i already countered these 3 argument
There is one about the new players not being alone vs veteran
There is one about the tutorial (that won't be handholding but teach the basics), and i can add than veteran will help complete the new player's knowledge
There is one about how you can find a lot of ways to have quick fun (gave only 2 example, but i'm sure we can find more with a little thinking)
Please read what has already been said before posting
You posted opinion, not immutable fact. Your opinion, on how you believe CU will play out and your views on if the BG's will work in that system. This is a place to discuss ideas, not chastise and stifle because someone didn't pay attention to you.
Nope, dont think your perspective is any better than mine Zifty..
just different.
I feel that a BG provides a place for a player to enjoy rvr at a slower pace.. ther are times where Im just not
up for full scale rvr,
"Exploring' is not my idea of fun when I want to rvr. ...Hardly
Also.. improving my fighting skills.. On a straw DUMMY ?? LOL.. Honestly hope you were kidding. ..
BG's may not be Necessary,,, but provide the player with a viable Alternative to Big Boy rvr.
Some times I Ski the soft GREEN trails, other times I love the Double Black Diamonds..
It come s down to having the ability to Choose..
I LIKE being able to CHOOSE..
^^ A lot of it boils down to this: OPTIONS.
In DAoC, I certainly wasn't interested in the frontiers. I wanted to RvR, just not in that scene. The BG's were the perfect environment for me, and those that were like-minded. It was a tighter map, not a huge vastness. It was also a place of equality, in that people were roughly the same level and could only attain a limited couple RR's of minimal importance. Every person has their own reason(s) why they went there, but the common element was that it was FUN.
Then again, you said that you have countered my perspective by your previous post..
I sure that your perspective is better than mine..
First, i'm not Zifty, i'm Zift. The name was already taken so i added my second name.
Second, i'm not saying than my perspective is better, i'm saying i already gave reasons and examples as to why your argument aren't valid.
Originally posted by Aminita
Well, went thru and read the posts..
Nope, dont think your perspective is any better than mine Zifty..
just different.
I feel that a BG provides a place for a player to enjoy rvr at a slower pace.. ther are times where Im just not
up for full scale rvr,
"Exploring' is not my idea of fun when I want to rvr. ...Hardly
Also.. improving my fighting skills.. On a straw DUMMY ?? LOL.. Honestly hope you were kidding. ..
BG's may not be Necessary,,, but provide the player with a viable Alternative to Big Boy rvr.
Some times I Ski the soft GREEN trails, other times I love the Double Black Diamonds..
It come s down to having the ability to Choose..
I LIKE being able to CHOOSE..
Alright, about the smaller scale RvR, i talked about how you could do small Point Of Interest not interesting for a zerg, we could do the same for the groups, a POI that rewards only 4 players on each realm and block the progression of all the others that enter after that limit, with a warning message if it's already full. I know it must have a lot of downside, it's just a random thought. It's to show than the bgs aren't the only way to have that.
Edit : Here will be the choices you want.
Exploring will probably be more for when you want to take a break from RvR.
Also, if bgs are for quick action, here comes another problem :
"When you die, and you will die; don’t expect to simply pop back up and get right back in the fight. It is going to be a lot more complicated than that. IMO, that gameplay style embodies some of the problems with many modern MMOs, death without consequence, “easy in” and “easy out” RvR, 6-year old kids’ soccer match, etc. RvR combat must be fun, challenging, exciting and losing must hurt a bit or it means nothing."
This one of the reasons bgs probably won't be in CU.
About the straw dummy, if you ever go take a stroll by the border keeps on DAoC you'll see people hitting their defenseless bots and then healing them.
A straw dummy will let you hit as long as you want the same target without worrying about killing it or dying, and test a lot of different skill combinations and compare them, their efficacity when used with other skills, testing the range of spells or melee hit, the duration of the figth until you lose all your endurance, the rate of procs and crits, and surely more other things. Maybe a new player wouldn't make full use of it and we should put some in the main structures.
Originally posted by Telondariel
You posted opinion, not immutable fact. Your opinion, on how you believe CU will play out and your views on if the BG's will work in that system. This is a place to discuss ideas, not chastise and stifle because someone didn't pay attention to you.
I never said i was stating immutable facts. And i indeed gave my opinions, but the difference with you is than i give reasons to have those opinions, and i'm not very pleased to read "We should add cars to move faster" when i just posted "there probably won't be any cars because CU will take place in a medieval universe"
Comments
I don't know if the first paragraph is aimed at me, but i would like to clarify my thought. I didn't mean to say "CU isn't DAoC, if you want to play DAoC then CU isn't for you." What i thought was "CU is a new game, don't try to turn it into a copy of DAoC because you liked it." Sorry i'm not that good at communicating.
As to if i like bgs or not, i answer yes i like them very much, the fact is i have every single of the 16 hibernian classes to the level 50, and than i got them that high before the bg quests that allow you to get to level 50 in one day were added to the game. I can tell you that i spent a lot of time in the bgs because i don't really like grinding PvE.
I'm not saying here i don't want them. I'm saying they are not needed. Out of all the argument that are in favor of the bgs, the only ones that weren't properly countered are the one i talked about just now, and the fact that newbies won't stand a chance against old players. Here is an example of what is supposed to happen if i'm not mistaken about the game :
Let's keep it simple. Each realm as only 8 players in the game, that played for years. After all that time, they pretty much attained the best way of playing they could, and so they are of equal forces. Then come on each realm 8 new players. What will give an edge to a realm over the two others? It's the rate at which those 8 new players will improve.
That's why, if the realm pride isn't messed up, the old players will have all the reasons they need to help the new players to improve the fastest way possible, and there should be limited amount of purely veteran players groups roaming around only interested in killing everything that moves. Most of the groups should have one or several new player which will allow them to have fun against groups of equal strength unless a realm has a lot more or a lot less new players.
Dear naysayers: Even if there was NO progression at all, it would be unacceptable to pit newbies against veterans. They would get crushed (repeatedly) and quit the game on day one. Now imagine what will happen with all those progression paths CU will have (if there are no BGs).
I just posted to say why there won't be newbies vs veteran fights but rather newbies+veterans vs newbies+veteran fights
I know i may not be that clear but here i just feel like you ignored me plain and simple (i'm even wondering if you read any of the previous posts).
Sounds like handholding.... check FP#3. The people for bgs are in disagreement with each other it seems.... a tutorial or a place for twinks to rofl stomp newbies.... it can't be both. The latter isn't needed at all. The former doesn't even apply to anyone on this forum and contradicts fp3. Assuming there isn't a power gap of course.
Despite the fact DAoC was a PvE/RvR style game, the early battlegrounds not only taught players how to operate as a team and how to use siege engines, it also allowed players to unlock certain realm abilities needed to make life much easier at end game.
I'm against themed battlegrounds, but I'm all for persistent battlegrounds that prepare new players for the real RvR. The BG's won't be forced on players, but it certainly needs to be optional.
I'm writing up a post regarding something else, but this vim diagram I created sorta explains why/how battlegrounds could coexist within Camelot Unchained.
RED = Arthurians
BLUE = Vikings
GREEN = Tuatha De Danann
Basically, all players have access to Open World RVR, but can also join the 'New "Level" Battlegrounds' - After a while, they'll be eligible to just the low "level" battleground, then middle, then "end game" will become available for players that just want a small map to help round out there characters before thrusted into open world RvR.
End Game BGs could be accessible to a certain "level" or it could be completely open for all players. All BGs are persistent and do not have a population cap; New 'level', low 'level' and middle level BGs should only award progression until a certain point point, then kick the player out upon death.
ALL battlegrounds introduce new elements found within World RVR to help prepare new players for the actual game.
Obviously, it needs a little refinement and I haven't reached this point in my own post as mentioned above.. but thought I'd throw it into this thread to spur some new discussion.
Did you even read my previous post? I gave a clear reason why any veterans caring for its realm would help newbies to get to a high level. I don't know how it worked in DAoC, i played it for only a few year and i have no idea how it could have been at the beginning, but i read than in the early stages, when realm hopping wasn't possible yet, the crafters were happy to help templating a new player and would work for prices that would seems too low to be worth it nowaday.
Well until there is somebody that actually read my post and react to it by showing me with clear argument a point i missed, the answer is already given.
EDIT : typos
Never a problem my ass. Buffbotted legendary using twinks would stomp people leveling like they're nothing. You apparently didn't play the game long enough to see twinks and 8mans (lol yes bg 8mans) roll over anyone who didn't do the same. You sound like the idiots who say it never split the population and that 12 people wouldn't make a difference in a fight when 8 people could kill 100. I'm done with this nonsense, watching people who have no idea wtf they're talking about make ridiculous claims about what never happened because they quit the game before it even had immunity timers =p
You are right about the DAoC BGs. I was thinking along the lines of Age of Conan BGs where groups signed up for BGs are fought in an instanced area. While I didn't like the instances in AoC I think something similar could work for 8-mans who claim they want to test their skills against each others without having to deal with adds and zergs.
I am not sure how BGs will work in CU since there are no levelling outside of RvR which is why I thought of AoC BGs.
Thank you !
I'm so glad someone made this point. It won't be newbies against veterans. It will be newbies and veterans against newbies and veterans! Even two or three years down the line, there will be people making alts and new players coming into the game (hopefully).
Yes, there may be groups of veterans only, but I very much hope that there will be penalties for fighting against people who have a huge disadvantage, which should make those veteran groups look elsewhere for a fight.
If you are not going to play because the idea of no Thid, then you were never going to play the game in the first place as these things would not be there since it was not hinted in anyway. I personally don't feel the game need to cater to the niche of the niche in order to add a smaller battleground area for the idea of lower power levels.
No /xp off command
+ No /rp off command
+ Level and RR cap in BGs
= Twink problem solved (see Uthgard)
Yes, it is THAT simple.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
Battlegrounds , like those in DAOC, provide a practice area for learning new characters, skills and grouping with your new character. It also provides the opportunity to Jump into the game for a short period of time, without locking you down for 2-3 hours if you dont have that window of opportunity. Jumping into Big Boy rvr with a new and untried and untested character
doesnt make you a lot of friends and hurts the group dynamics if you arent familiar with it.
Overall, varying levels of BGs allow players to find a "comfort level" of playing to suit their skills and needs, thus allowing for more people to enjoy the game.
If you take the time to read my previous posts, you'll see i already countered these 3 argument
There is one about the new players not being alone vs veteran
There is one about the tutorial (that won't be handholding but teach the basics), and i can add than veteran will help complete the new player's knowledge
There is one about how you can find a lot of ways to have quick fun (gave only 2 example, but i'm sure we can find more with a little thinking)
Please read what has already been said before posting
Something that i would be curious to see is some sort BG (not instanced) for newly made characters where you can't even group, where you can try your skills versus other players from other realms and test it. a "free-for-all" mini section of the map to gain your firsts few "levels" or points from progression, whatever you wanna call it.
Of course it would only give you a small idea of how to play your character, but it would be a good place to test or even change how you personalised your character at creation. once you leave the place, there s no turning back (unless delete and restart).
It could be a small island, and when you decide to leave the training area, you board a ship and it brings you on the actual land (in your realm part of the land of course).
Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR
That's a good idea.
This island would be the tutorial, and that's where you would find the only safe zone with the capital city, the safe zone would have straw mannequin to test your positional skills as well as low level mobs to fight against something fighting back before trying to go for the other players
Sorry Zifty,
Dont have the time to go thru the 13 pages..
Then again, you said that you have countered my perspective by your previous post..
I sure that your perspective is better than mine..
No. Battlegrounds are artificial. All PvP combat in CU should occur on the real battlefields.
This isn't Arena PVP.
I don't disagree, but i don't think you understand the concept of Battlegrounds people are talking about.
daoc bg's were nothing close to arena pvp. They were real battlefields for lower level characters.
I don't see it happening in a game where theres no level curve like daoc, but its possible to make work.
Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked
Well, went thru and read the posts..
Nope, dont think your perspective is any better than mine Zifty..
just different.
I feel that a BG provides a place for a player to enjoy rvr at a slower pace.. ther are times where Im just not
up for full scale rvr,
"Exploring' is not my idea of fun when I want to rvr. ...Hardly
Also.. improving my fighting skills.. On a straw DUMMY ?? LOL.. Honestly hope you were kidding. ..
BG's may not be Necessary,,, but provide the player with a viable Alternative to Big Boy rvr.
Some times I Ski the soft GREEN trails, other times I love the Double Black Diamonds..
It come s down to having the ability to Choose..
I LIKE being able to CHOOSE..
You posted opinion, not immutable fact. Your opinion, on how you believe CU will play out and your views on if the BG's will work in that system. This is a place to discuss ideas, not chastise and stifle because someone didn't pay attention to you.
^^ A lot of it boils down to this: OPTIONS.
In DAoC, I certainly wasn't interested in the frontiers. I wanted to RvR, just not in that scene. The BG's were the perfect environment for me, and those that were like-minded. It was a tighter map, not a huge vastness. It was also a place of equality, in that people were roughly the same level and could only attain a limited couple RR's of minimal importance. Every person has their own reason(s) why they went there, but the common element was that it was FUN.
First, i'm not Zifty, i'm Zift. The name was already taken so i added my second name.
Second, i'm not saying than my perspective is better, i'm saying i already gave reasons and examples as to why your argument aren't valid.
Alright, about the smaller scale RvR, i talked about how you could do small Point Of Interest not interesting for a zerg, we could do the same for the groups, a POI that rewards only 4 players on each realm and block the progression of all the others that enter after that limit, with a warning message if it's already full. I know it must have a lot of downside, it's just a random thought. It's to show than the bgs aren't the only way to have that.
Edit : Here will be the choices you want.
Exploring will probably be more for when you want to take a break from RvR.
Also, if bgs are for quick action, here comes another problem :
"When you die, and you will die; don’t expect to simply pop back up and get right back in the fight. It is going to be a lot more complicated than that. IMO, that gameplay style embodies some of the problems with many modern MMOs, death without consequence, “easy in” and “easy out” RvR, 6-year old kids’ soccer match, etc. RvR combat must be fun, challenging, exciting and losing must hurt a bit or it means nothing."
(http://citystateentertainment.com/2013/02/foundational-principle-2-rvr-isnt-the-end-game-its-the-only-game/)
This one of the reasons bgs probably won't be in CU.
About the straw dummy, if you ever go take a stroll by the border keeps on DAoC you'll see people hitting their defenseless bots and then healing them.
A straw dummy will let you hit as long as you want the same target without worrying about killing it or dying, and test a lot of different skill combinations and compare them, their efficacity when used with other skills, testing the range of spells or melee hit, the duration of the figth until you lose all your endurance, the rate of procs and crits, and surely more other things. Maybe a new player wouldn't make full use of it and we should put some in the main structures.
I never said i was stating immutable facts. And i indeed gave my opinions, but the difference with you is than i give reasons to have those opinions, and i'm not very pleased to read "We should add cars to move faster" when i just posted "there probably won't be any cars because CU will take place in a medieval universe"