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Fluff and housing is lost

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  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by ignore_me
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by ignore_me

    If you are on the side of no housing, and are all worked up about it, I have to question your motives. There is no clear link to fluff causing the failure of games, there is an assumption of causality given the historical success and failure of titles which really definitively shows nothing.

    How about if i am on the side of "housing is meh, i don't care one way or the other"?

    I think that is a perfectly legitimate stance that has the virtue of not attempting to stifle the enjoyment of others.

    I doubt anyone can seriously stifle the enjoyment of others. Even if i touted the evil of fluff with thousand words essays (not that i believe in that) here, no game development will change by 0.1% because of that.

    I highly doubt this forum has any impact on actual game design. It is just a place for people to discuss, rand, flame, and pass time.

    Well i have to take that to mean that you don't approve of attempting to stifle the fun of others, so, good.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by ignore_me

    I doubt anyone can seriously stifle the enjoyment of others. Even if i touted the evil of fluff with thousand words essays (not that i believe in that) here, no game development will change by 0.1% because of that.

    I highly doubt this forum has any impact on actual game design. It is just a place for people to discuss, rand, flame, and pass time.

    Well i have to take that to mean that you don't approve of attempting to stifle the fun of others, so, good.

    "approve of attempting to stifle the fun of others"? let me put it this way ... i don't care one way or another. I am just saying that it wont work even if someone want to strifle the fun of others.

     

  • wordizwordiz Eugene, ORPosts: 464Member
    OP, I'd say you're correct that those things have been taken for granted in recent years. Still mind boggles me that WoW never incorporated housing. However, I think this post is about a year too late with so many games adding housing, and games like archeage on the horizon that promise housing at launch...this is soon to be fixed in the genre hopefully.  As mentioned by other posters, I think there are a lot more games with housing than you're aware of.
  • ClaudeSuamOramClaudeSuamOram Hartville, OHPosts: 122Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by ignore_me

    I doubt anyone can seriously stifle the enjoyment of others. Even if i touted the evil of fluff with thousand words essays (not that i believe in that) here, no game development will change by 0.1% because of that.

    I highly doubt this forum has any impact on actual game design. It is just a place for people to discuss, rand, flame, and pass time.

    Well i have to take that to mean that you don't approve of attempting to stifle the fun of others, so, good.

    "approve of attempting to stifle the fun of others"? let me put it this way ... i don't care one way or another. I am just saying that it wont work even if someone want to strifle the fun of others.

     

    Ganking, ninja looting and excessive kill stealing are ways to stifle someone else's fun.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by ClaudeSuamOram
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by ignore_me

    I doubt anyone can seriously stifle the enjoyment of others. Even if i touted the evil of fluff with thousand words essays (not that i believe in that) here, no game development will change by 0.1% because of that.

    I highly doubt this forum has any impact on actual game design. It is just a place for people to discuss, rand, flame, and pass time.

    Well i have to take that to mean that you don't approve of attempting to stifle the fun of others, so, good.

    "approve of attempting to stifle the fun of others"? let me put it this way ... i don't care one way or another. I am just saying that it wont work even if someone want to strifle the fun of others.

     

    Ganking, ninja looting and excessive kill stealing are ways to stifle someone else's fun.

    Yeah .. and i play games when that is not possible.

    Ganking - just play a non-pvp game.

    NInja looting - go for games with WOW LFR, or D3 type loot ... the game drop your personal loot. No ninjaing is possible.

    Excessive kill stealing - go for games like D3 where you can't kill steal. You get the credit and loot anyway if you are in the vincinity. Or just go into your own instance .. no one can killsteal.

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by ignore_me

    I doubt anyone can seriously stifle the enjoyment of others. Even if i touted the evil of fluff with thousand words essays (not that i believe in that) here, no game development will change by 0.1% because of that.

    I highly doubt this forum has any impact on actual game design. It is just a place for people to discuss, rand, flame, and pass time.

    Well i have to take that to mean that you don't approve of attempting to stifle the fun of others, so, good.

    "approve of attempting to stifle the fun of others"? let me put it this way ... i don't care one way or another. I am just saying that it wont work even if someone want to strifle the fun of others.

     

    I think you're just trying to poke a stick at me here so i'll give you your fun. Ok you can't stifle the fun of others, I was wrong to suggest that people have any impact on other people.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • cheyanecheyane Rome Posts: 3,002Member Uncommon
    In my opinion introduction of fluff to an already failing game will not do much to increase its population but adding it to games that have a healthy population will increase the possibility of the players sticking around. Fluff by itself will not draw players to a game they have left and make them stay but they would be loath to leave a game they are currently playing where they have invested in fluff. Fluff is not like combat which is essential but fluff can contribute to a player's reluctance to jump to another game because of sentiment and attachment and I speak from my reluctance to leave Everquest 2 and Vanguard as a result of my own experience in this area.

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  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,444Member Uncommon

    They are not harder,these employees inside dev teams are quite skilled,they know what they are doing.It is simply a matter of cost and developers are proving to me at least ,that they care far more about profit than gaming quality.

    What often miffs me is when you hear devs BRAG about listening to the players,yet the most important content is ignored by the devs.It is super easy to brag about something that cannot be proved.

    Another big problem is that once it is accepted,then all the devs copy each other,there is no competition to improve that way.There is and probably AWLAYS will be massive amounbts of gamers willing to spend money on every single new game that comes out,so again no incentive to improve the effort on game design.

    I said it before but Archeage will have a sort of weak form of housing but at least the game will release with msot if not ALL the content you expect from a AAA game.Other games like to promise or sell you what SHOULD be there from the beginning in xpacs.My suggestion although i know it falls on deft ears,is to quit supporting half ass game developement.if these devs are claiming to sell you a AAA title expect nothing but the best,not shallow one dimensional gaming.

     


    Samoan Diamond

  • SysFailSysFail LondonPosts: 375Member

    My experience of housing from UO is remarkable, my little story goes like this...

     

    Having found an idoc(in danger of collapsing) I set about camping the plot with a friend, whom i'd met while on the open sea's fishing...

     

    Together we took turns staying awake, houses in UO were highly sought after, thus why we felt it worth a sleepless night. But finally at around 10 am, it fell and i was the lucky one to get the placement, yay my first house, i was well chuffed, but that was just the beginning...

     

    Over time I got to know my neighbours very well, we'd trade, craft, hunt, pvp etc together and eventually we created a guild. The guild grew over time, as it grew, members began buying houses around mine and the other founders, until eventually we owned fifteen houses in the area, something extremely difficult to achieve.

     

    So with the fluff that was fishing, where i met the friend that helped me to get the house, then the house that layed the foundation of a guild, members who i'm still gaming with today, i can honestly say i'm a fan of fluff and housing, without it i wouldn't have such wonderful gaming memories.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    They are not harder,these employees inside dev teams are quite skilled,they know what they are doing.It is simply a matter of cost and developers are proving to me at least ,that they care far more about profit than gaming quality.

     

    Fluff is not quality. Fluff is fluff.

  • AeolynAeolyn Langley, BCPosts: 216Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SysFail

    My experience of housing from UO is remarkable, my little story goes like this...

     

    Having found an idoc(in danger of collapsing) I set about camping the plot with a friend, whom i'd met while on the open sea's fishing...

     

    Together we took turns staying awake, houses in UO were highly sought after, thus why we felt it worth a sleepless night. But finally at around 10 am, it fell and i was the lucky one to get the placement, yay my first house, i was well chuffed, but that was just the beginning...

     

    Over time I got to know my neighbours very well, we'd trade, craft, hunt, pvp etc together and eventually we created a guild. The guild grew over time, as it grew, members began buying houses around mine and the other founders, until eventually we owned fifteen houses in the area, something extremely difficult to achieve.

     

    So with the fluff that was fishing, where i met the friend that helped me to get the house, then the house that layed the foundation of a guild, members who i'm still gaming with today, i can honestly say i'm a fan of fluff and housing, without it i wouldn't have such wonderful gaming memories.

    Your story is not unique either, which just goes to prove that "fluff" is really a key component in mmorpgs and not "just" fluff.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    They are not harder,these employees inside dev teams are quite skilled,they know what they are doing.It is simply a matter of cost and developers are proving to me at least ,that they care far more about profit than gaming quality.

     

    Fluff is not quality. Fluff is fluff.

    So fluff can't be quality?

    Interesing.  Many people here, myself included feel that fluff is partly what makes a quality game, quality. 

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • RusqueRusque Las Vegas, NVPosts: 2,229Member Uncommon

    WoW has fluff (mounts and pets), and it's one of the reasons it retains people the way it does. If it had housing and decor added, it would be insane.

    Mounts - if you haven't noticed, WoW has quite an extensive roster of mounts, attainable through many various means including some very rare difficult to get ones.

    Pets - Not only do players enjoy pets (most f2p games offer them in shops because people like them so much that they are willing to pay for them), WoW has the pet battles which have increased collectibility and now people trade and sell their pets.

    They've also added the farming dailies (like farmville kinda), if Blizz was smart their next expansion would introducing housing and collectible decor. I honestly think my gf would never play another game if they did that.

  • firefly2003firefly2003 Los Angeles, CAPosts: 2,555Member
    Originally posted by Salenger

    Just to list a few games you might like that have these options but also carry open world pvp anf full loot, which is not for everyone.

    Mortal Online (build your own house, workshop, etc.  Fish, hunt, mine etc)

    Xyson  ( do whatever you like)

    Istaria (great crafting, housing, city building)

    Darkfall (dominantly PVP based but has fishing, hunting and housing)

    Perpetuum (nice sandbox with player owned stations)

     

    But i think the game you want to play when it someday comes to North America is Arche Age.

     

    Don't forget The Repopulation...

    image

  • VannorVannor YorkshirePosts: 2,970Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rusque

    Pets - Not only do players enjoy pets (most f2p games offer them in shops because people like them so much that they are willing to pay for them), WoW has the pet battles which have increased collectibility and now people trade and sell their pets.

    WoWs pet battle system is the definition of fluff. A massive collection to obtain, level up and has no effect of the rest of the game whatsoever (except for making gold). It can sink hours upon hours of your time.

    Me? I just ignore it, not interested.. lol. Maybe one day when I'm bored just for some achievements I'll sink into it.. dunno. It's nice to have the option though.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Vannor
    Originally posted by Rusque

    Pets - Not only do players enjoy pets (most f2p games offer them in shops because people like them so much that they are willing to pay for them), WoW has the pet battles which have increased collectibility and now people trade and sell their pets.

    WoWs pet battle system is the definition of fluff. A massive collection to obtain, level up and has no effect of the rest of the game whatsoever (except for making gold). It can sink hours upon hours of your time.

    Me? I just ignore it, not interested.. lol. Maybe one day when I'm bored just for some achievements I'll sink into it.. dunno. It's nice to have the option though.

    Is it? It has a combat system, progression, and some customization. I would think it is a parallel game sharing some part of the game world, instead of fluff.

    It may start as fluff ... but i don't see it as fluff anymore. Wait until there is ladder, ranking, and e-sports.

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