basically the thought process for every game made since say...2006
never works if you havent noticed.
Glad to see this as the first reply.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The problem with having a Vanilla server, or clone is that everyone that wants it has already done it. It will be boring and stale. To put it how some described Rift when it came out "Nothing new here, it's just like WoW". This would truly be EXACTLY like WoW. When MoP first launched and I got my first 90, I didn't like all the dailies either, but after 5.1 and 5.2, they seemed to be going away from dailies. Yes they're still in there, but Blizzard is bringing back open world PvP. With objectives to capture (5.1), and new pvp dailies (5.2), it seems Blizzard is starting to play attention to both pvp and pve.
I personally love 5.1 and 5.2, but no so much 5.0. Even Blizzard has said they went a little overboard on the dailies in 5.0. That's why there's not so many in 5.1 and 5.2 and they made the Commendations you can buy at Revered. This helps an altoholic like myself, keep all my characters upto par. I haven't seen so much open world pvp in WoW since Burning Crusade. I have characters on PvE servers, and Isle of Thunder is full of people doing the new pvp dailies, and spending the rest of the day stopping others, it's a blast. Two days ago, we had a big ~50v50 battle royal romping across the island, which brought back memories of Tarren Mill (which according to Blizzard, was thier goal). It seems that MoP is only getting better with each content patch. Plus Blizzard has done a good job of making almost everyone (except a few orc only players) hate Garrosh, the patch that let's us raid orgrimmar and end his reign of terror, could be the best patch of all time.
The problem with having a Vanilla server, or clone is that everyone that wants it has already done it. It will be boring and stale. To put it how some described Rift when it came out "Nothing new here, it's just like WoW". This would truly be EXACTLY like WoW. When MoP first launched and I got my first 90, I didn't like all the dailies either, but after 5.1 and 5.2, they seemed to be going away from dailies. Yes they're still in there, but Blizzard is bringing back open world PvP. With objectives to capture (5.1), and new pvp dailies (5.2), it seems Blizzard is starting to play attention to both pvp and pve.
I personally love 5.1 and 5.2, but no so much 5.0. Even Blizzard has said they went a little overboard on the dailies in 5.0. That's why there's not so many in 5.1 and 5.2 and they made the Commendations you can buy at Revered. This helps an altoholic like myself, keep all my characters upto par. I haven't seen so much open world pvp in WoW since Burning Crusade. I have characters on PvE servers, and Isle of Thunder is full of people doing the new pvp dailies, and spending the rest of the day stopping others, it's a blast. Two days ago, we had a big ~50v50 battle royal romping across the island, which brought back memories of Tarren Mill (which according to Blizzard, was thier goal). It seems that MoP is only getting better with each content patch. Plus Blizzard has done a good job of making almost everyone (except a few orc only players) hate Garrosh, the patch that let's us raid orgrimmar and end his reign of terror, could be the best patch of all time.
I agree 5.2 has been one of the best patches in a long time, and as an orc myself can't wait to end his reign of chaos!
Nope. It would flop pretty quickly. Vanilla wow had TONS of problems with it. We all go on about nostologia and all and WOW is no exception. If it was released today it would bomb and bomb hard. Hell, a good exaple would be vanguard. It had problems at launch yes, but so did wow, but since it was released at a time when more and more MMOs were on the market it ended up falling flat very quickly.
Its like going to an amusement park as a little child and then revisiting it when you get older. Actually being there again with the park having never changed, chances are your going to find its no where near as good as your younger self viewed it as and you can easily see the flaws and you would miss many modern day elements that more recent parks to visited had.
Games need more content as gamers progress which is the main reasons for Expansion packs.
Everyone starts to complain and so they release new ideas, content ect ect to keep people comming back and playing.
Sure maybe the game mechanics or just overall was better at an earlier point in time but things need to change in order to continue.
Think about it, if they would have just stayed with the BC expansion and not went past it how many people would still be playing it to this day? you would have been there done that 100 million times over and everyone would have the same equipment ect ect.
A few games have went back to a Classic server system and it does fine for a while until you max out or just dont feel like doing it all over again cause you have done it before.
Any time I have ever went back to an old game like I have with Everquest, Daoc and WOW I end up playing a little bit I might even buy a month then I end up canceling cause its just not the same. I never get that same feeling I had like when I first did my first Molten Core Raid or fought over Tauren mill.
Wow is just near it's end and it was great while it lasted, I'm sure it will go on and on like Everquest does but as with everything else it has gotten old and it's simply time to move on.
The problem with having a Vanilla server, or clone is that everyone that wants it has already done it. It will be boring and stale. To put it how some described Rift when it came out "Nothing new here, it's just like WoW". This would truly be EXACTLY like WoW. When MoP first launched and I got my first 90, I didn't like all the dailies either, but after 5.1 and 5.2, they seemed to be going away from dailies. Yes they're still in there, but Blizzard is bringing back open world PvP. With objectives to capture (5.1), and new pvp dailies (5.2), it seems Blizzard is starting to play attention to both pvp and pve.
I personally love 5.1 and 5.2, but no so much 5.0. Even Blizzard has said they went a little overboard on the dailies in 5.0. That's why there's not so many in 5.1 and 5.2 and they made the Commendations you can buy at Revered. This helps an altoholic like myself, keep all my characters upto par. I haven't seen so much open world pvp in WoW since Burning Crusade. I have characters on PvE servers, and Isle of Thunder is full of people doing the new pvp dailies, and spending the rest of the day stopping others, it's a blast. Two days ago, we had a big ~50v50 battle royal romping across the island, which brought back memories of Tarren Mill (which according to Blizzard, was thier goal). It seems that MoP is only getting better with each content patch. Plus Blizzard has done a good job of making almost everyone (except a few orc only players) hate Garrosh, the patch that let's us raid orgrimmar and end his reign of terror, could be the best patch of all time.
People have done it before and now they have so many years into their characters they want to keep the "investment" going.
Sure some people would play it but it won't kill MoP/WOW. TBC killed vanilla in sub numbers so there is no basis to think vanilla was more successful.
I loved vanilla but I loved TBC more overall. There were pockets of things that I missed, like old AV but much more improved in TBC.
People want to move forward not backwards in their gaming lives.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
The problem with having a Vanilla server, or clone is that everyone that wants it has already done it. It will be boring and stale. To put it how some described Rift when it came out "Nothing new here, it's just like WoW". This would truly be EXACTLY like WoW. When MoP first launched and I got my first 90, I didn't like all the dailies either, but after 5.1 and 5.2, they seemed to be going away from dailies. Yes they're still in there, but Blizzard is bringing back open world PvP. With objectives to capture (5.1), and new pvp dailies (5.2), it seems Blizzard is starting to play attention to both pvp and pve.
I personally love 5.1 and 5.2, but no so much 5.0. Even Blizzard has said they went a little overboard on the dailies in 5.0. That's why there's not so many in 5.1 and 5.2 and they made the Commendations you can buy at Revered. This helps an altoholic like myself, keep all my characters upto par. I haven't seen so much open world pvp in WoW since Burning Crusade. I have characters on PvE servers, and Isle of Thunder is full of people doing the new pvp dailies, and spending the rest of the day stopping others, it's a blast. Two days ago, we had a big ~50v50 battle royal romping across the island, which brought back memories of Tarren Mill (which according to Blizzard, was thier goal). It seems that MoP is only getting better with each content patch. Plus Blizzard has done a good job of making almost everyone (except a few orc only players) hate Garrosh, the patch that let's us raid orgrimmar and end his reign of terror, could be the best patch of all time.
People have done it before and now they have so many years into their characters they want to keep the "investment" going.
Sure some people would play it but it won't kill MoP/WOW. TBC killed vanilla in sub numbers so there is no basis to think vanilla was more successful.
I loved vanilla but I loved TBC more overall. There were pockets of things that I missed, like old AV but much more improved in TBC.
People want to move forward not backwards in their gaming lives.
So after reading all the post it seems that players from our community anyways seems that The Vanilla WoW days were nice but a game needs to progress. I agree unfortently Blizz took to much time to progress in the correct way for many players and that cost them subs. Now if they can keep on a good track with 5.1 and 5.2 then maybe who know maybe they can stop losing players. But the harsh reality of it is perhaps to little to late. just my opionion btw kind of reminds me of a AB bg when your side is losing and everyone decides to play as a team for the last 3 mins of the the bg and get off the rds and start to hold bases and fight on the flags well lol to little to late.
Originally posted by Dragonantis Who wants an MMO that would never evolve?
What is your definition of evolving? Evolution does not always correlate to something that is functional or "fun" to play. The devs for WoW had an explosion on their hands that they were well aware would occur (at least in part) due to their Chinese numbers being already predicted as astronomical.
Recall that China has a 24x7 days a week show dedicated (a channel rather) to the RPG WoW games. Vivindi/Blizzard could have gotten fat just off of their overseas numbers - ala South Korea, Taiwan, and so forth. America was just the icing on the cake. This might explain why panda bears are now rampant in WoW (lol).
Anyway - the developers admit in a recent interview posted on these forums that there were aspects of Vanilla that people enjoyed and that there is an intent to regain some of that.
I used to walk into Stormwind and see a medieval fantasy city. I go there now, and there's flying reindeer, tiny muppet pets following people in gear that comes with a half dozen strobe lights, and so forth. It's like Disney took over the franchise - and not in a good (super heroes) sort of way.
The idea of evolution in this industry to (a) increase content (b) reach more player types (c) entice former players to return and most importantly (d) to offer a fun gaming experience.
Unfortunately, (b) has a way of conflicting with (d).
Im surprised that Disney has not tried to buy out Blizz yet. lol Ya you are right (b) does have a way of conflicting with (d).
I loved vanilla. I'm glad I was a part of WoW when it 1st came out. No game will ever make me feel like those 60 levels in vanilla. Ever.
That being said, if you look at vanilla for what it was, I wouldn't go back in a million years. If that WoW was released today it would crash and burn for all eternity.
In my opinion MoP did an excellent job, 5.2 is a superb patch. Those two island really lured people out of the cities and world bosses and pvp dailies spark massive PvP battles all the time. Also you gotta love random world drops from those mobs. I think Blizzard did a great job with a 8year old game and brought back *SOME* of the feeling that was lost during all this time.
WoW is still the top dog in MMO department. I hate it when people say it's outdated where there is not a single game that is at least a bit successful that doesn't contain the very same game elements.
So after reading all the post it seems that players from our community anyways seems that The Vanilla WoW days were nice but a game needs to progress. I agree unfortently Blizz took to much time to progress in the correct way for many players and that cost them subs.
We're still talking about World of Warcraft, right?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The problem with having a Vanilla server, or clone is that everyone that wants it has already done it. It will be boring and stale. To put it how some described Rift when it came out "Nothing new here, it's just like WoW". This would truly be EXACTLY like WoW. When MoP first launched and I got my first 90, I didn't like all the dailies either, but after 5.1 and 5.2, they seemed to be going away from dailies. Yes they're still in there, but Blizzard is bringing back open world PvP. With objectives to capture (5.1), and new pvp dailies (5.2), it seems Blizzard is starting to play attention to both pvp and pve.
I personally love 5.1 and 5.2, but no so much 5.0. Even Blizzard has said they went a little overboard on the dailies in 5.0. That's why there's not so many in 5.1 and 5.2 and they made the Commendations you can buy at Revered. This helps an altoholic like myself, keep all my characters upto par. I haven't seen so much open world pvp in WoW since Burning Crusade. I have characters on PvE servers, and Isle of Thunder is full of people doing the new pvp dailies, and spending the rest of the day stopping others, it's a blast. Two days ago, we had a big ~50v50 battle royal romping across the island, which brought back memories of Tarren Mill (which according to Blizzard, was thier goal). It seems that MoP is only getting better with each content patch. Plus Blizzard has done a good job of making almost everyone (except a few orc only players) hate Garrosh, the patch that let's us raid orgrimmar and end his reign of terror, could be the best patch of all time.
People have done it before and now they have so many years into their characters they want to keep the "investment" going.
Sure some people would play it but it won't kill MoP/WOW. TBC killed vanilla in sub numbers so there is no basis to think vanilla was more successful.
I loved vanilla but I loved TBC more overall. There were pockets of things that I missed, like old AV but much more improved in TBC.
People want to move forward not backwards in their gaming lives.
So after reading all the post it seems that players from our community anyways seems that The Vanilla WoW days were nice but a game needs to progress. I agree unfortently Blizz took to much time to progress in the correct way for many players and that cost them subs. Now if they can keep on a good track with 5.1 and 5.2 then maybe who know maybe they can stop losing players. But the harsh reality of it is perhaps to little to late. just my opionion btw kind of reminds me of a AB bg when your side is losing and everyone decides to play as a team for the last 3 mins of the the bg and get off the rds and start to hold bases and fight on the flags well lol to little to late.
"CORRECT WAY" according to you? Look. subs went up post vanilla until it hit peak. Other than that, you sound bitter.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Well eq progression servers were something of the same sorts, and it kindda worked but it werent something that made SOE rich - Means there were definately players for it, but not huge amounts. WoW has a good deal of sentimental players just like EQ has, and that speaks for the idea.
SOE made the "mistake" of mixing new with old, thus not quite reaching the nostalgia people who are the target audience for such. With that in mind, it is important that WoW uses its old code, and that can be a technincal problem. If the technical issues require alot of work to fix, it will not be a positive outcome finansially and I doubt Blizz would do it then.
I played EQ progression with a passion for awhile, and so I think WoW vets would love WoW vanilla aswell, but personally I find WoW a bit too shallow to re-live it although I might hop on for a month for a giggle. How about a WoW progression server instead, with 2month expansion roll-on or something.. just a continuing even that a wow progression server starts every 6 months or so and then merges when it reaches max expansion.. I mean as much as you love Vanilla I feel some kind of progression is in order.
Thinking about this some more I realize a huge problem. If it werent for all the UI mods I would never have played WoW, and getting mods for version this and that would be a nightmare, probably impossible unless curse would play along and find some backups. Playing WoW with only Blizzards UI... urgh, no way.
I recently started playing FFXI again, and I'm not sure why -- maybe the feeling of nostalgia was too much for me to handle. I quit in 2008, too ka two year break, came back in 2010, quit again and just came back. When I came back in 2010, I noticed something had changed, which was pretty much everything. Everyone was spending every second in Abyssea and grinding out merits. Abyssea killed the group dynamic, and thus, killing the game itself. I digress.
When I came back a month or so ago, I thought the game had moved beyond the zergfest that is Abyssea; I was wrong. I found myself in Abyssea - La Theine killing the same damn worms I was two years ago. Nothing had changed. Except for the fact 75% (S.W.A.G., btw) of my server's population has at least one relic/mythic/empyrean weapon.
I long for the days I would sit in Whitegate, Jeuno or whereever just to wait for a party invite, or possibly start one of my own. I also miss the interaction between party members. Even if someone wasn't perfect, they'd be given a chance, and most of the time, someone would be there to correct them. We would go over group strategies when we made it to camp, and would then commence to some good ol' mob killin. And you would leave the party with a sense of accomplishment. Today, there is no interaction beyond the alliance leader asking for replacements, AFKers, leechers and the like. And the only accomplishments for today's 'exp alliances' are, well, the merits you earn and the loot that you get. There is no more, "Man I saved the party's ass by using Mighty Strikes and Rampaging that mob to death. The tank went down, so I had to step up."
It's utterly depressing.
I wish I could feel like I did in 2006 or 2007 or even 2008. People banding together to accomplish goals, because soloing was damn near impossible. However, it's now the norm. Going into Sea and doing Limbus or farming pop items for the Sea Jailers. Or even going into Sky. Everything now is just zerg, zerg, zerg.
But yes, I agree.
I believe what makes games like Wow (Vanilla) and FFXI (pre-Abyssea) so special is the community itself. The culture of instantaneous rewards brought by the LFG and raid-finder, to include abyssea, has changed the way we perceive and value each other. It's no longer, "I need this, so I'll help this dude" it's, "I need this and to hell with that guy."
MMOs are about community, and the instant rewards systems the devs have implemented to 'minimize downtime' or 'keep players active' have fragmented the community within each game. These instant rewards systems have taken away one (big) reason to stop caring about other players.
When was the last time that anyone truly helped someone, in-game, altruistically? Instead of, "I heard that dude shouting for 'xyz' for hours, but, ehh, f*** that dude." How about, "I heard that dude shouting for 'xyz,' so I gathered up a few others to help him out of a bind."
If (when) we regain our sense of community, we'll have our Vanilla WoW and pre-abyssea FFXI back.
I surely prefer vanilla wow from what its become nowdays. Combat mechanics and talent trees were leaving lots of space for players to improvise and have unique fight styles. Today with limited to none freedom on talent trees its quite certain that if u r x specc on x class vs x class and specc u must do x things to have chance to win.If u try to improvise u r cooked. Also combat back in vanilla was more unpredictable due to various sideeffects weapons chances to stun for x seconds ,talent picks etc etc ,really competitive battlegrounds, world pvp within the server,better community blah blah blah
These things cant be traded for all the pandas, wolverines and flying mounts in the world.
I surely prefer vanilla wow from what its become nowdays. Combat mechanics and talent trees were leaving lots of space for players to improvise and have unique fight styles. Today with limited to none freedom on talent trees its quite certain that if u r x specc on x class vs x class and specc u must do x things to have chance to win.If u try to improvise u r cooked. Also combat back in vanilla was more unpredictable due to various sideeffects weapons chances to stun for x seconds ,talent picks etc etc ,really competitive battlegrounds, world pvp within the server,better community blah blah blah
These things cant be traded for all the pandas, wolverines and flying mounts in the world.
Much of that choice was an illusion. Due to design errors (omission/commission) there was only a limited number of effective builds for most people, in most classes. Thus was born the FOTM cycle. Once theorycrafting really got started, it became an arms race between the top players and the Dev's. That continues to this day.
Most of the rose colored glasses seems to concern the "joys" of ganking and griefing back during the first year to 18 months of the game. Given Blizzards obsession with spread sheets and data mining, if the majority of players had taken part in that, and enjoyed it (rather than simply tolerating it) I doubt they would have changed it.
As for the rest, it was the PvP crowds vocal minority howling about "OP" this, and "broken" that, which drives much of the FOTM cycle. It goes like this. Player A is killed by class B. Player A howls "Class B is OP!!! Nerf class B!!" After a certain amount of howling, and foaming at the mouth, the Dev's nerf class B into the ground.
Then class C, D, E... Then the next part of the cycle starts. The Dev's say, fewer people are playing class B, buff class B! Then player A gets killed by class B, "Class B is OP!!! Nerf class B!!"... This repeats FOREVER.
In the eternal search for the illusion of "balance" large amounts of Dev time and talent are consumed. Also in the process, in most games, the nerf/buff cycle annoys the hell out of the PvE side of the game, because changes for "balance" in PvP, end up hammering the fun factor in PvE. This acts as a DOT effect, which eventually contributes to many players leaving the game.
So after reading all the post it seems that players from our community anyways seems that The Vanilla WoW days were nice but a game needs to progress. I agree unfortently Blizz took to much time to progress in the correct way for many players and that cost them subs.
We're still talking about World of Warcraft, right?
Um ya. Not sure why you are asking? Did you not mean to leave a reply in a WoW thread? Hey np it happens.
So after reading all the post it seems that players from our community anyways seems that The Vanilla WoW days were nice but a game needs to progress. I agree unfortently Blizz took to much time to progress in the correct way for many players and that cost them subs.
We're still talking about World of Warcraft, right?
Um ya. Not sure why you are asking?
Because if we are, either you're looking at the wrong chart or you're holding it sideways.
You've made it very clear that facts and data aren't big things with you, but in case you were actually trying to base one of your posts on some semblance of reality, I figured I'd help you out some.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
So after reading all the post it seems that players from our community anyways seems that The Vanilla WoW days were nice but a game needs to progress. I agree unfortently Blizz took to much time to progress in the correct way for many players and that cost them subs.
We're still talking about World of Warcraft, right?
Um ya. Not sure why you are asking?
Because if we are, either you're looking at the wrong chart or you're holding it sideways.
You've made it very clear that facts and data aren't big things with you, but in case you were actually trying to base one of your posts on some semblance of reality, I figured I'd help you out some.
TY for the help. Ya it is hard to keep a semblance of reality on a "what if" topic. After all this whole thread is based on imagination. The probibility of a gaming company making a Vanilla WoW clone to compete against WoW is highly unlikly. So ya not very much of sembalnce of reality to speak of on this thread.
There was nothing unique or even great about vanilla WoW. The game owes its success to marketing, going back to the old ways would not bring back the masses. Only marketing does. Brand name recognition got WoW where it is.
Remember when you were a kid and you went to the local carnival at a school, and it was the most amazing thing ever? Now fast forward 10 years, and having been to state fairs and Disney World, is that local carnival really that exciting? For the honest vast majority of you, no its not even close to as exciting or fun. Yet you can still recall having a blast because it was the first if not one of the first games you've ever played.
That's what would happen with a vanilla wow clone, you would miss all the "advancements" in today's modern games.
And as an aside, couldn't those who want vanilla and bc, simply run new toons up to 60 and run MC and BWL at level? And all gather in southshore at level 40 and fight? Doesn't wow have a way to turn off xp gain? So you can keep yourself at this level?
And the best part about it, you can and most likely will be ganked by 85s and 90s, but guess what, you all love being ganked, so no worries!
Originally posted by DavisFlight There was nothing unique or even great about vanilla WoW. The game owes its success to marketing, going back to the old ways would not bring back the masses. Only marketing does. Brand name recognition got WoW where it is.
I think you over value marketing and are blind to the fact it is/was a very well made game that millions enjoy (except you of course)
Comments
Glad to see this as the first reply.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The problem with having a Vanilla server, or clone is that everyone that wants it has already done it. It will be boring and stale. To put it how some described Rift when it came out "Nothing new here, it's just like WoW". This would truly be EXACTLY like WoW. When MoP first launched and I got my first 90, I didn't like all the dailies either, but after 5.1 and 5.2, they seemed to be going away from dailies. Yes they're still in there, but Blizzard is bringing back open world PvP. With objectives to capture (5.1), and new pvp dailies (5.2), it seems Blizzard is starting to play attention to both pvp and pve.
I personally love 5.1 and 5.2, but no so much 5.0. Even Blizzard has said they went a little overboard on the dailies in 5.0. That's why there's not so many in 5.1 and 5.2 and they made the Commendations you can buy at Revered. This helps an altoholic like myself, keep all my characters upto par. I haven't seen so much open world pvp in WoW since Burning Crusade. I have characters on PvE servers, and Isle of Thunder is full of people doing the new pvp dailies, and spending the rest of the day stopping others, it's a blast. Two days ago, we had a big ~50v50 battle royal romping across the island, which brought back memories of Tarren Mill (which according to Blizzard, was thier goal). It seems that MoP is only getting better with each content patch. Plus Blizzard has done a good job of making almost everyone (except a few orc only players) hate Garrosh, the patch that let's us raid orgrimmar and end his reign of terror, could be the best patch of all time.
I agree 5.2 has been one of the best patches in a long time, and as an orc myself can't wait to end his reign of chaos!
Nope. It would flop pretty quickly. Vanilla wow had TONS of problems with it. We all go on about nostologia and all and WOW is no exception. If it was released today it would bomb and bomb hard. Hell, a good exaple would be vanguard. It had problems at launch yes, but so did wow, but since it was released at a time when more and more MMOs were on the market it ended up falling flat very quickly.
Its like going to an amusement park as a little child and then revisiting it when you get older. Actually being there again with the park having never changed, chances are your going to find its no where near as good as your younger self viewed it as and you can easily see the flaws and you would miss many modern day elements that more recent parks to visited had.
There are many valid reasons why WoW has adapted and changed so much over the years.
A clone of "vanilla WoW" would fail.
Jeremiah 8:21 I weep for the hurt of my people; I stand amazed, silent, dumb with grief.
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To the Op.
I personally don't think so..
Games need more content as gamers progress which is the main reasons for Expansion packs.
Everyone starts to complain and so they release new ideas, content ect ect to keep people comming back and playing.
Sure maybe the game mechanics or just overall was better at an earlier point in time but things need to change in order to continue.
Think about it, if they would have just stayed with the BC expansion and not went past it how many people would still be playing it to this day? you would have been there done that 100 million times over and everyone would have the same equipment ect ect.
A few games have went back to a Classic server system and it does fine for a while until you max out or just dont feel like doing it all over again cause you have done it before.
Any time I have ever went back to an old game like I have with Everquest, Daoc and WOW I end up playing a little bit I might even buy a month then I end up canceling cause its just not the same. I never get that same feeling I had like when I first did my first Molten Core Raid or fought over Tauren mill.
Wow is just near it's end and it was great while it lasted, I'm sure it will go on and on like Everquest does but as with everything else it has gotten old and it's simply time to move on.
People have done it before and now they have so many years into their characters they want to keep the "investment" going.
Sure some people would play it but it won't kill MoP/WOW. TBC killed vanilla in sub numbers so there is no basis to think vanilla was more successful.
I loved vanilla but I loved TBC more overall. There were pockets of things that I missed, like old AV but much more improved in TBC.
People want to move forward not backwards in their gaming lives.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
So after reading all the post it seems that players from our community anyways seems that The Vanilla WoW days were nice but a game needs to progress. I agree unfortently Blizz took to much time to progress in the correct way for many players and that cost them subs. Now if they can keep on a good track with 5.1 and 5.2 then maybe who know maybe they can stop losing players. But the harsh reality of it is perhaps to little to late. just my opionion btw kind of reminds me of a AB bg when your side is losing and everyone decides to play as a team for the last 3 mins of the the bg and get off the rds and start to hold bases and fight on the flags well lol to little to late.
Im surprised that Disney has not tried to buy out Blizz yet. lol Ya you are right (b) does have a way of conflicting with (d).
I loved vanilla. I'm glad I was a part of WoW when it 1st came out. No game will ever make me feel like those 60 levels in vanilla. Ever.
That being said, if you look at vanilla for what it was, I wouldn't go back in a million years. If that WoW was released today it would crash and burn for all eternity.
In my opinion MoP did an excellent job, 5.2 is a superb patch. Those two island really lured people out of the cities and world bosses and pvp dailies spark massive PvP battles all the time. Also you gotta love random world drops from those mobs. I think Blizzard did a great job with a 8year old game and brought back *SOME* of the feeling that was lost during all this time.
WoW is still the top dog in MMO department. I hate it when people say it's outdated where there is not a single game that is at least a bit successful that doesn't contain the very same game elements.
We're still talking about World of Warcraft, right?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
"CORRECT WAY" according to you? Look. subs went up post vanilla until it hit peak. Other than that, you sound bitter.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Well eq progression servers were something of the same sorts, and it kindda worked but it werent something that made SOE rich - Means there were definately players for it, but not huge amounts. WoW has a good deal of sentimental players just like EQ has, and that speaks for the idea.
SOE made the "mistake" of mixing new with old, thus not quite reaching the nostalgia people who are the target audience for such. With that in mind, it is important that WoW uses its old code, and that can be a technincal problem. If the technical issues require alot of work to fix, it will not be a positive outcome finansially and I doubt Blizz would do it then.
I played EQ progression with a passion for awhile, and so I think WoW vets would love WoW vanilla aswell, but personally I find WoW a bit too shallow to re-live it although I might hop on for a month for a giggle. How about a WoW progression server instead, with 2month expansion roll-on or something.. just a continuing even that a wow progression server starts every 6 months or so and then merges when it reaches max expansion.. I mean as much as you love Vanilla I feel some kind of progression is in order.
Thinking about this some more I realize a huge problem. If it werent for all the UI mods I would never have played WoW, and getting mods for version this and that would be a nightmare, probably impossible unless curse would play along and find some backups. Playing WoW with only Blizzards UI... urgh, no way.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
I agree.
I recently started playing FFXI again, and I'm not sure why -- maybe the feeling of nostalgia was too much for me to handle. I quit in 2008, too ka two year break, came back in 2010, quit again and just came back. When I came back in 2010, I noticed something had changed, which was pretty much everything. Everyone was spending every second in Abyssea and grinding out merits. Abyssea killed the group dynamic, and thus, killing the game itself. I digress.
When I came back a month or so ago, I thought the game had moved beyond the zergfest that is Abyssea; I was wrong. I found myself in Abyssea - La Theine killing the same damn worms I was two years ago. Nothing had changed. Except for the fact 75% (S.W.A.G., btw) of my server's population has at least one relic/mythic/empyrean weapon.
I long for the days I would sit in Whitegate, Jeuno or whereever just to wait for a party invite, or possibly start one of my own. I also miss the interaction between party members. Even if someone wasn't perfect, they'd be given a chance, and most of the time, someone would be there to correct them. We would go over group strategies when we made it to camp, and would then commence to some good ol' mob killin. And you would leave the party with a sense of accomplishment. Today, there is no interaction beyond the alliance leader asking for replacements, AFKers, leechers and the like. And the only accomplishments for today's 'exp alliances' are, well, the merits you earn and the loot that you get. There is no more, "Man I saved the party's ass by using Mighty Strikes and Rampaging that mob to death. The tank went down, so I had to step up."
It's utterly depressing.
I wish I could feel like I did in 2006 or 2007 or even 2008. People banding together to accomplish goals, because soloing was damn near impossible. However, it's now the norm. Going into Sea and doing Limbus or farming pop items for the Sea Jailers. Or even going into Sky. Everything now is just zerg, zerg, zerg.
But yes, I agree.
I believe what makes games like Wow (Vanilla) and FFXI (pre-Abyssea) so special is the community itself. The culture of instantaneous rewards brought by the LFG and raid-finder, to include abyssea, has changed the way we perceive and value each other. It's no longer, "I need this, so I'll help this dude" it's, "I need this and to hell with that guy."
MMOs are about community, and the instant rewards systems the devs have implemented to 'minimize downtime' or 'keep players active' have fragmented the community within each game. These instant rewards systems have taken away one (big) reason to stop caring about other players.
When was the last time that anyone truly helped someone, in-game, altruistically? Instead of, "I heard that dude shouting for 'xyz' for hours, but, ehh, f*** that dude." How about, "I heard that dude shouting for 'xyz,' so I gathered up a few others to help him out of a bind."
If (when) we regain our sense of community, we'll have our Vanilla WoW and pre-abyssea FFXI back.
I surely prefer vanilla wow from what its become nowdays. Combat mechanics and talent trees were leaving lots of space for players to improvise and have unique fight styles. Today with limited to none freedom on talent trees its quite certain that if u r x specc on x class vs x class and specc u must do x things to have chance to win.If u try to improvise u r cooked. Also combat back in vanilla was more unpredictable due to various sideeffects weapons chances to stun for x seconds ,talent picks etc etc ,really competitive battlegrounds, world pvp within the server,better community blah blah blah
These things cant be traded for all the pandas, wolverines and flying mounts in the world.
Much of that choice was an illusion. Due to design errors (omission/commission) there was only a limited number of effective builds for most people, in most classes. Thus was born the FOTM cycle. Once theorycrafting really got started, it became an arms race between the top players and the Dev's. That continues to this day.
Most of the rose colored glasses seems to concern the "joys" of ganking and griefing back during the first year to 18 months of the game. Given Blizzards obsession with spread sheets and data mining, if the majority of players had taken part in that, and enjoyed it (rather than simply tolerating it) I doubt they would have changed it.
As for the rest, it was the PvP crowds vocal minority howling about "OP" this, and "broken" that, which drives much of the FOTM cycle. It goes like this. Player A is killed by class B. Player A howls "Class B is OP!!! Nerf class B!!" After a certain amount of howling, and foaming at the mouth, the Dev's nerf class B into the ground.
Then class C, D, E... Then the next part of the cycle starts. The Dev's say, fewer people are playing class B, buff class B! Then player A gets killed by class B, "Class B is OP!!! Nerf class B!!"... This repeats FOREVER.
In the eternal search for the illusion of "balance" large amounts of Dev time and talent are consumed. Also in the process, in most games, the nerf/buff cycle annoys the hell out of the PvE side of the game, because changes for "balance" in PvP, end up hammering the fun factor in PvE. This acts as a DOT effect, which eventually contributes to many players leaving the game.
Um ya. Not sure why you are asking? Did you not mean to leave a reply in a WoW thread? Hey np it happens.
Because if we are, either you're looking at the wrong chart or you're holding it sideways.
You've made it very clear that facts and data aren't big things with you, but in case you were actually trying to base one of your posts on some semblance of reality, I figured I'd help you out some.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
TY for the help. Ya it is hard to keep a semblance of reality on a "what if" topic. After all this whole thread is based on imagination. The probibility of a gaming company making a Vanilla WoW clone to compete against WoW is highly unlikly. So ya not very much of sembalnce of reality to speak of on this thread.
Remember when you were a kid and you went to the local carnival at a school, and it was the most amazing thing ever? Now fast forward 10 years, and having been to state fairs and Disney World, is that local carnival really that exciting? For the honest vast majority of you, no its not even close to as exciting or fun. Yet you can still recall having a blast because it was the first if not one of the first games you've ever played.
That's what would happen with a vanilla wow clone, you would miss all the "advancements" in today's modern games.
And as an aside, couldn't those who want vanilla and bc, simply run new toons up to 60 and run MC and BWL at level? And all gather in southshore at level 40 and fight? Doesn't wow have a way to turn off xp gain? So you can keep yourself at this level?
And the best part about it, you can and most likely will be ganked by 85s and 90s, but guess what, you all love being ganked, so no worries!
I think you over value marketing and are blind to the fact it is/was a very well made game that millions enjoy (except you of course)