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Do LFG System really ruin the community?

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  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

     reputation didn't matter

    You didn't play EQ or at least didn't play it for very long if you think reputation didn't matter. There were hundreds of black-lists of people that circulated in guilds and on server boards.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,290Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

     reputation didn't matter

    You didn't play EQ or at least didn't play it for very long if you think reputation didn't matter. There were hundreds of black-lists of people that circulated in guilds and on server boards.

    I played it for 4 years, people had individual black lists, but nothing more than that, server lists were routinely ignored.  People were shouting in EC tunnel and bazaar about how xx is a scammer and ninja, you'd see them the next day with epic gear.  They were routinely ignored. 

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

     reputation didn't matter

    You didn't play EQ or at least didn't play it for very long if you think reputation didn't matter. There were hundreds of black-lists of people that circulated in guilds and on server boards.

    I played it for 4 years, people had individual black lists, but nothing more than that, server lists were routinely ignored.  People were shouting in EC tunnel and bazaar about how xx is a scammer and ninja, you'd see them the next day with epic gear.  They were routinely ignored. 

    individual black lists? No there were black lists posted as stickies on server message boards

    reputation in EQ mattered a whole lot

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,290Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

     reputation didn't matter

    You didn't play EQ or at least didn't play it for very long if you think reputation didn't matter. There were hundreds of black-lists of people that circulated in guilds and on server boards.

    I played it for 4 years, people had individual black lists, but nothing more than that, server lists were routinely ignored.  People were shouting in EC tunnel and bazaar about how xx is a scammer and ninja, you'd see them the next day with epic gear.  They were routinely ignored. 

    individual black lists? No there were black lists posted as stickies on server message boards

    Server black lists were routinely ignored. 

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member

    They weren't ignored, they were used by guilds during recruitment, that's what the incentive behind them was to make them in the first place. I just remembered you're a person who likes to argue back and forth with people, so I'll leave it at that.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,290Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    They weren't ignored, they were used by guilds during recruitment, that's what the incentive behind them was to make them in the first place. I just remembered you're a person who likes to argue back and forth with people, so I'll leave it at that.

     Only when people's assertions don't mesh with what actually happened.

    Despite those lists, people on the lists still continued to get good gear, proving the lists were routinely ignored. 

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • ClaudeSuamOramClaudeSuamOram Hartville, OHPosts: 122Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by ClaudeSuamOram

    Problem is...Axehilt campaigns for only those types of games he likes and blasts those who bring up the possibility of an old school game coming around again...not considering those who liked those types he doesn't. Many here who do that. I mean, I don't like the fast paced MMORPG's, or the lack of the community within them, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't exist or I should campaing to make sure no more are made because I don't like them.

     

     

    That is no worse than the old school games advocates doing the same ... and they are pretty condenscending to new MMOs too.

    Way to not read through all the posts and see where I mentioned that. I am not nieve enough to think it doesn't travel both ways.

  • NildenNilden null, NBPosts: 1,284Member Uncommon

    The LFG tool is such a small part of the game and overall design. How does one not look at pacing and downtime as well as difficulty or challenge way before the grouping tool?

     

     

    How to post links.

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    What you can't do is group with 5 other people from other servers, never talk to those people, AFK, kick people, or be a jerk to people who are trying to be nice, and get away with it.

    That is possible in many games, and you don't have to think very hard to find the cupript, it's the anonymity that cross-server grouping gives those people which allows them to act that way.

    You just said that "That is possible", and "what you can't do"? Obviously you *can*.

    And why do i have to talk to people in PUGs every time? I am not playing a chat-room, am i?

    A prime example of the current malaise that is affecting mmorgs today.  Single player mentaility in a mmorg world where socialising is a big part of the game.  Grouping with people for 30 mins to an hour + and not wanting to talk to anyone in the group, why group with them then?

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • spades07spades07 YesPosts: 847Member

    when I played WoW I thought the LFG system was great. However it didn't really solicit friendships when you played with stranger after stranger on different servers all the time.
    However, I blame the level system more than anything. Remove levels- everyone can group with everyone- a server wide number of people to group with + community.

  • GreenHellGreenHell ludlow, MAPosts: 1,322Member Uncommon

     

    Considering the amount of posts I see here all the time about old school desires, I'd say there is plenty of market for it. But with a loud vocal majority of newer players and their willingness to throw money at the next new shiney without throwing caution to the wind first...it's hard to get anything other than the usual. Why try something different if you have a sure fire way to continue suckering money out of people non-stop? They buy, then complain.

    LOL..this is the same forum where people proclaimed that GW2 was the second coming of Christ. There is NOT  a demand for an old school boring game anywhere except for here. How many people do you actually see posting? 30? 100? 1000? none of those numbers would be able to cover what a modern MMO would need to survive. Not even close.

    The only reason I see monthly fee MMORPG's have gone extinct is because...

    1) These MMORPG's now don't deliver on content and logetivity to justify a monthly fee and developer's know it.

    2) Developer's see more profitability in making promises they usually don't deliver on because people will buy it based on promises ...not research before buying, charging for beta entry (Because a lot of players jump at it), pre-order gifts and in-game extras, cash shops, and delivering quick fun that wears out fast not caring about player retention because hell...they are already paid anyways. Players now are ready to throw money at anything. Also why there are so many kickstarter games out there...most of which are vaporware...a lot of suckers and impatient people.

    Very hypocritical btw with the first paragraph considering you can look anywhere on these forums and find the same elitism with the berrating those that would like a slower progression, open worlds to explore and not just teleport instantly to the next objective, and social aspects. They are on both sides of the coin...it's difference in play styles and what each considers fun.

    You have slower progression games. They are all old. There is a reason for that.

    Another issue is a lot of people brought in since 2004 never played the ones prior to them. It's hard for them to understand where those who started playing them from their birth are coming from. Those that DID play from the begining that side with the new age fast paced, heavily instanced stuff do so because, IMO, they want to hold onto the magic and still play them...but don't have the time to dedicate to them as they should be...so changing them to suit their schedules is desireable. Which is fine...everyone is entitled to one that suits their play style, etc.

    But there are a LOT of people who (Again back to elitism) want just there own style, and fight against anyone who asks for something they don't like. Probably because that means when they axhaust the month or so of fun in the current new MMORPG they are in, they want the next to be like what they like and if it seems to different...that means they have to wait longer.

    The problem isnt that people want something new. It's that those same people have to be insulting and jump on the "its cool to bash anyone who does not agree with our style of play" bandwagon. You guys just hate it when you have to face the facts that your style of game is dead. There is no money to be made there. You will not be seeing a return to those days. Maybe MMOs are not for you any longer and you should move on.

    The kicker is...I haven't seen many old schoolers saying that new age types shouldn't be here at all (Although I know there are some), but rather there should be more variety and not all be that way. Where as I have seen MANY posts from people who are rabid new age MMORPG fans saying old school style shouldn't be here at all. Pretty selfish IMO.

    If you havent seen any than you have been trying to avoid them. They are everywhere.

     

    As far as LFG tools, it's a double edged sword. They can be helpful to cut down on having to sit in a city and spam for an hour or more for a particular dungeon.

    But they DO kill social aspect. Most MMORPG's I have tried with them you get invited pretty fast...but as CalmOCeans has said...you don't respond fast enough (Within a minute) they move on to the next person looking. And when finally in a group, I try and say hello to people...no one responds with a greeting, or are rude to you because you are not focusing instantly on the task of racing through the dungeon to get the boss and associated loot.

    Why is it so hard for people to understand that not all of us are looking for friends. Do you seriously go to a store and try to talk to every person you see? Why is a game different? It just doesnt seem to me like a lot of you are looking for a game. You are looking for a social experience something like what The Sims online used to offer.

     

    Another difference between old and new dungeon crawls once you have cleared the dungeon, killed the boss, and received loot based on the above...

     

    Old: Players made sure everyone had a safe way out of the dungeon, be it a teleport (Based on their class), or escorting them out safely. Reputation mattered.

    New: Once loot is distributed...most drop group and teleport out leaving others hanging. Cross server dungeon finder groups and the such make reputation not matter as you may not see those players again.

    You teleport out of the dungeon. There is nothing left to help you with. We are done. You are no longer in any danger what so ever. Im not sure what kind of help you need.

  • ClaudeSuamOramClaudeSuamOram Hartville, OHPosts: 122Member
    Originally posted by GreenHell

     

    Considering the amount of posts I see here all the time about old school desires, I'd say there is plenty of market for it. But with a loud vocal majority of newer players and their willingness to throw money at the next new shiney without throwing caution to the wind first...it's hard to get anything other than the usual. Why try something different if you have a sure fire way to continue suckering money out of people non-stop? They buy, then complain.

    LOL..this is the same forum where people proclaimed that GW2 was the second coming of Christ. There is NOT  a demand for an old school boring game anywhere except for here. How many people do you actually see posting? 30? 100? 1000? none of those numbers would be able to cover what a modern MMO would need to survive. Not even close.

    Beg to differ. EVE Online is a monthly sub game with a much lower than the average MMORPG playerbase. Yet it still manages expansions and profit.

    The only reason I see monthly fee MMORPG's have gone extinct is because...

    1) These MMORPG's now don't deliver on content and logetivity to justify a monthly fee and developer's know it.

    2) Developer's see more profitability in making promises they usually don't deliver on because people will buy it based on promises ...not research before buying, charging for beta entry (Because a lot of players jump at it), pre-order gifts and in-game extras, cash shops, and delivering quick fun that wears out fast not caring about player retention because hell...they are already paid anyways. Players now are ready to throw money at anything. Also why there are so many kickstarter games out there...most of which are vaporware...a lot of suckers and impatient people.

    Very hypocritical btw with the first paragraph considering you can look anywhere on these forums and find the same elitism with the berrating those that would like a slower progression, open worlds to explore and not just teleport instantly to the next objective, and social aspects. They are on both sides of the coin...it's difference in play styles and what each considers fun.

    You have slower progression games. They are all old. There is a reason for that.

    And they are STILL going and making a profit, there is a reason for that also.

    Another issue is a lot of people brought in since 2004 never played the ones prior to them. It's hard for them to understand where those who started playing them from their birth are coming from. Those that DID play from the begining that side with the new age fast paced, heavily instanced stuff do so because, IMO, they want to hold onto the magic and still play them...but don't have the time to dedicate to them as they should be...so changing them to suit their schedules is desireable. Which is fine...everyone is entitled to one that suits their play style, etc.

    But there are a LOT of people who (Again back to elitism) want just there own style, and fight against anyone who asks for something they don't like. Probably because that means when they axhaust the month or so of fun in the current new MMORPG they are in, they want the next to be like what they like and if it seems to different...that means they have to wait longer.

    The problem isnt that people want something new. It's that those same people have to be insulting and jump on the "its cool to bash anyone who does not agree with our style of play" bandwagon. You guys just hate it when you have to face the facts that your style of game is dead. There is no money to be made there. You will not be seeing a return to those days. Maybe MMOs are not for you any longer and you should move on.

    You guys huh. Because there is in NO way any bashing from the other side of the fence. And sorry bud...but there are several games coming this year and next that show the possibility of being sandboxes like the old style. Are you a psychic? How can you be so sure they won't make a comeback? You can't.

    And I LOVE how you tell me to move on, it's hilarious....and ignorant/selfish.

    The kicker is...I haven't seen many old schoolers saying that new age types shouldn't be here at all (Although I know there are some), but rather there should be more variety and not all be that way. Where as I have seen MANY posts from people who are rabid new age MMORPG fans saying old school style shouldn't be here at all. Pretty selfish IMO.

    If you havent seen any than you have been trying to avoid them. They are everywhere.

    Key words above in quoted "Haven't seen many". I didn't say I haven't seen it at all.

     

    As far as LFG tools, it's a double edged sword. They can be helpful to cut down on having to sit in a city and spam for an hour or more for a particular dungeon.

    But they DO kill social aspect. Most MMORPG's I have tried with them you get invited pretty fast...but as CalmOCeans has said...you don't respond fast enough (Within a minute) they move on to the next person looking. And when finally in a group, I try and say hello to people...no one responds with a greeting, or are rude to you because you are not focusing instantly on the task of racing through the dungeon to get the boss and associated loot.

    Why is it so hard for people to understand that not all of us are looking for friends. Do you seriously go to a store and try to talk to every person you see? Why is a game different? It just doesnt seem to me like a lot of you are looking for a game. You are looking for a social experience something like what The Sims online used to offer.

    That's fine if you aren't looking for friends and to be social, but you do realize we are discussing MMORPG's right? That is...excuse me, WAS part of their charm and meaning. That is, prior to 2004 anyways.

    Let's not getting any more ridiculous than you have already. No I don't talk to every single person I see in reality...but I am sociable and friendly when applicable. Not a clamed up anti-social goon.

    MMORPG's WERE focused around this aspect quite a bit before the masses joined the genre and wanted them to be single player online games.

     

    Another difference between old and new dungeon crawls once you have cleared the dungeon, killed the boss, and received loot based on the above...

     

    Old: Players made sure everyone had a safe way out of the dungeon, be it a teleport (Based on their class), or escorting them out safely. Reputation mattered.

    New: Once loot is distributed...most drop group and teleport out leaving others hanging. Cross server dungeon finder groups and the such make reputation not matter as you may not see those players again.

    You teleport out of the dungeon. There is nothing left to help you with. We are done. You are no longer in any danger what so ever. Im not sure what kind of help you need.

    Not every newer MMORPG has the ability for any character to teleport out at will. There are exceptions believe it or not. You are missing the point that people use to communicate and help one another. Now people ignore others unless they have something to offer or THEY need the help. I ask you the same question I posed to Nariusseldon that he ignored. If you don't want to be social or group with others...why do you play MMORPG's? Why not just play console games instead of campaigning for MMORPG's to be console-like games and coming to an MMORPG form and berrate those that actually want to play MMORPG's with social aspects to add to the environments while fighting/crafting/etc? Boggles my mind beyond selfishness.

     

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
     

    A prime example of the current malaise that is affecting mmorgs today.  Single player mentaility in a mmorg world where socialising is a big part of the game.  Grouping with people for 30 mins to an hour + and not wanting to talk to anyone in the group, why group with them then?

    To kill stuff with them, of course. Why else?

    If i want to talk, a chatroom is a much better option than a GAME.

  • xeniarxeniar Posts: 805Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
     

    A prime example of the current malaise that is affecting mmorgs today.  Single player mentaility in a mmorg world where socialising is a big part of the game.  Grouping with people for 30 mins to an hour + and not wanting to talk to anyone in the group, why group with them then?

    To kill stuff with them, of course. Why else?

    If i want to talk, a chatroom is a much better option than a GAME.

    kill sutff where?

    kill stuff why?

  • MorgarenMorgaren Richwood, TXPosts: 394Member

    All LFG does is let people who either a) don't know many people, or b) don't have anyone they know online be able to see content and have fun. This idea that "it ruins community" is stupid, I will tell you why...

    If the other system was so successful there would never be a reason for it.

    You know when you you vote with your wallet and stop giving the company money sometimes they ask "Why did you quit?" If you were loosing money because everyone said "can't ever get in a group for dungeons or raids" what would you do?

    The community was ruined before this system came out, and was ruined by the elitist people that go around and screaming that this whole thing never happen. I have come to learn that in MMORPG's there are two ways people have fun. One group has fun by going and seeing the content, and another has fun by having awesome gear or abilities or titles ect....that others do not have.

    The LFG system was medicine for a condition that was already there. It didn't allow small guilds to exist because there was never enough people on to do anything, unless it was tightly regimented, and thats not fun. SO small clicks and communities got washed away by the need to join larger socities that would allow you to see the content. Which was damaging to the community as well. Its like towns.

    Large towns offer more to do, but you lack the feeling that you know anyone. Small towns are familiar and you know everyone, but most times, there is not alot to do.

    This topic comes up every now and then about how it ruins communities, and I state again, if the communitiy was so rock solid, it wouldn't have ever even come about, or if it came about it just would have offered an easier way to go do what was already going on.

    Sometimes I really think that the people crying the loudest miss getting credit for "getting the group together" pathetic I say.

  • GreenHellGreenHell ludlow, MAPosts: 1,322Member Uncommon

    Beg to differ. EVE Online is a monthly sub game with a much lower than the average MMORPG playerbase. Yet it still manages expansions and profit.

    Last I heard EvE was pushing somewhere between 250k - 300k subs. For an Indy title that game is the cinderella story.

    And they are STILL going and making a profit, there is a reason for that also.

    Very little overhead on a game that is 11 years old. Its not hard to make a profit when just about every cent you take in is profit. Not to mention that EQ did not cost anywhere near what an MMO costs today.

    You guys huh. Because there is in NO way any bashing from the other side of the fence. And sorry bud...but there are several games coming this year and next that show the possibility of being sandboxes like the old style. Are you a psychic? How can you be so sure they won't make a comeback? You can't.

    And I LOVE how you tell me to move on, it's hilarious....and ignorant/selfish.

    I simply suggested you move on. I didn't tell you to do anything. You are obviously unhappy with the direction of this genre "bud". Why stay and be unhappy? Makes very little sense.

    The possibility of being a sandbox. LOL. That possibility will come to a quick end when any investor looks at the miserable sub rate those games had. At it's peak SWG had maybe 250k. Maybe. By the end I would be shocked if it had 30k. I would say maybe even less actually players because everyone had multiple accounts. What would you use to prove to an investor that making an old school sandbox is a worth while investment? This forum and the 30 people that want this type of game? Tell him that if he invests 80 mil now maybe in 15 years he can seem some results? You may see some sort of sandbox elements until the subs fall through the floor and it quickly becomes yet another wow clone. Just like SWG.

    Key words above in quoted "Haven't seen many". I didn't say I haven't seen it at all.

    Then you haven't looked very hard. Key word there is "looked".

    That's fine if you aren't looking for friends and to be social, but you do realize we are discussing MMORPG's right? That is...excuse me, WAS part of their charm and meaning. That is, prior to 2004 anyways.

    Let's not getting any more ridiculous than you have already. No I don't talk to every single person I see in reality...but I am sociable and friendly when applicable. Not a clamed up anti-social goon.

    MMORPG's WERE focused around this aspect quite a bit before the masses joined the genre and wanted them to be single player online games.

    Who was that a part of the charm and meaning for? You? A bunch of old, lonely, bitter gamers? Who? How many of you were there? 200K? maybe 300k? Compare that to the millions of people playing and enjoying all of the new MMO's today. You are bitter because your little fantasy club got over run by the masses. Not only did it get over run but the companies stopped giving a damn about you and what type of game you liked and went for where the money was. There simply was not enough of you to turn the kind of profit a company wants to make.

    Your social games got replaced by things like Facebook and all of its social games. That is how your type of game evolved. The MMO of yesterdy was parted out. The action, fighting, killing parts became modern MMOs. The part you like sitting around, talking and doing nothing went on to become social media.

    LOL..anti-social goon. No you are the opposite. You are the needy, pay attention to me, I want to feel loved in my MMO ,"hey, will you guys wait 20 mins for me" type of player. Was that an accurate description of you? Porbably not but hey Im a anti-social goon.

    Not every newer MMORPG has the ability for any character to teleport out at will. There are exceptions believe it or not. You are missing the point that people use to communicate and help one another. Now people ignore others unless they have something to offer or THEY need the help. I ask you the same question I posed to Nariusseldon that he ignored. If you don't want to be social or group with others...why do you play MMORPG's? Why not just play console games instead of campaigning for MMORPG's to be console-like games and coming to an MMORPG form and berrate those that actually want to play MMORPG's with social aspects to add to the environments while fighting/crafting/etc? Boggles my mind beyond selfishness.

     

    I will answer that question and ask you one. I play MMOs to be in a persistent world with my RL friends and family. Why do you play MMOs when facebook is more of what you want? You want to be social so why not just play farmville. Lots of social stuff going on there. Lots of talking, sitting around, trading things..why do you want to change the genre back to the niche hellhole that it was? I am not selfish. I never said I want every game to be WoW. I never said I want EQ to be shut down. I really hope that they do make some grindy, boring, sit around and talk MMO that you would enjoy. Its just never going to come from a AAA studio and it will be doomed to  failure before it even launches due to limited funding. 

     

    The thing you and others seem really confused about is that "we" did not change your games. We did not try to make them more like console games.The developers did. The problem was that developers wanted more than the pathetic sub numbers your games could generate. All the gamers did was play. It was the developers that went chasing us. Not the other way around. Your games could not attract the masses. Your games could not generate the kind of revenue that investors wanted. Your games failed to do what WoW did. Your games are a thing of the past.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by Morgaren

    If the other system was so successful there would never be a reason for it.

     If the healthy food was so successful there wouldn't be a reason for McDonalds!

    If the communitiy was so rock solid, it wouldn't have ever even come about.

    If healthy food was so rock solid, McDonalds wouldn't have ever even come about.

    Sometimes I really think that the people crying the loudest miss getting credit for "getting the group together" pathetic I say.

    Sometimes I really think that the people crying the loudest miss getting credit for "making a nice meal" pathetic I say.

     

    I can defend McDonalds too with inane and  straw man arguments.

  • KaosProphetKaosProphet Edmonton, ABPosts: 379Member
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    There are games for people who do not care about communities, people who want the dungeon run experience of WoW and LoL, you have those games, we would like games with a more meaningful instead of fleeting experience.

    And that's not a lot to ask, because that's how MMO always were before they went mainstream through WoW. MMO had always been games were reputation, social experience and honor and respect for your fellow players

    You're kidding, right?

    Respect was always clique-based.  PKs vs carebears, endgame-raiders vs casual losers, arena-pvpers vs openworld-gankers (and, of course, all the other losers who didn't pvp at all.)  There was always a crowd of elitists, elitist-wannabes, and then the bottom of the pile that everyone disrespected.
  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by KaosProphet
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    There are games for people who do not care about communities, people who want the dungeon run experience of WoW and LoL, you have those games, we would like games with a more meaningful instead of fleeting experience.

    And that's not a lot to ask, because that's how MMO always were before they went mainstream through WoW. MMO had always been games were reputation, social experience and honor and respect for your fellow players

    You're kidding, right?

    Respect was always clique-based.  PKs vs carebears, endgame-raiders vs casual losers, arena-pvpers vs openworld-gankers (and, of course, all the other losers who didn't pvp at all.)  There was always a crowd of elitists, elitist-wannabes, and then the bottom of the pile that everyone disrespected.

    Basic respect like saying hi isn't even present in current games. You can get flamed in some games just for trying to start a conversation, I have stopped playing them altogether. Basic respect, courtesy, is very missing in MMO.

    As far as your other arguments, EQ didn't have any PVP, 90% of the servers were strictly PVE and for good reason.

    If there was respect in PVP in the early days or not I wouldn't know since I never played PVP games nor did I mention PVP anywhere in this thread.

  • SnigerknudSnigerknud hedenstedPosts: 60Member
    Originally posted by Goll25

    Yes. 

    When wow implemented the system in Wotlk, nobody did heroics in groups anymore - just solo que (unless your in an active guild and do it with them). Then came the raid finder, now nobody PUGS raids.

    Destroyed the community IMHO.

    I like that not all games are looking to always implement the system - I was sad when rift choose to.

    Agree 100% 

    I sill use the LFG tool's when it is there but I miss the old days in WoW were we travel together to the dungeon in one group.

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,418Member Uncommon

    I never have a problem with anything that pushes towards grouping,if you are not grouping,then the term MMO might as well be removed.

    I find often times players are too hyper or too lazy.All players had to do in games i have played is hangout near the zone they want to group up in,yo uare bound to run into others that way.

    As to instances,they work pretty much becuase the majority of players seem to want to duo trio with a couple friends and not interact with the community,so in a way,yes it does ruin community.However in saying that it si the general game design that does the worst job ruining community.

    The reason is simple "LOOT" .when a game makes EVERYONE on the server want the exat same loot,yo uneed isntances to keep 1 million trying to kil lthe exact same mobs,really it is a cheap way to make up for poor game design.So instead  of having the community come together to play the game,it becomes a competition or a ME ME to get the best loot with no real care for anyone else.


    Samoan Diamond

  • cheyanecheyane Rome Posts: 3,001Member Uncommon

    This is one of those cases where the remedy is worse than the disease. See it is bad to wait around for hours to get a group and then go together to do the dungeon but the introduction of the lfg tool has added more social isolation and complete disregard for human interaction and thereby contributing to a game community's decline. Really very hard situation to remedy both situations are untenable .

     

    May be the tool should not be so aggressive it should only allow people to place their name on a list and perhaps describe themselves and allow others who form groups to enlist them. It does not however teleport you anywhere and you still have to travel there the old fashion way. Like it was in City of X lfg tool.

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  • KaosProphetKaosProphet Edmonton, ABPosts: 379Member
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by KaosProphet
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    There are games for people who do not care about communities, people who want the dungeon run experience of WoW and LoL, you have those games, we would like games with a more meaningful instead of fleeting experience.

    And that's not a lot to ask, because that's how MMO always were before they went mainstream through WoW. MMO had always been games were reputation, social experience and honor and respect for your fellow players

    You're kidding, right?

    Respect was always clique-based.  PKs vs carebears, endgame-raiders vs casual losers, arena-pvpers vs openworld-gankers (and, of course, all the other losers who didn't pvp at all.)  There was always a crowd of elitists, elitist-wannabes, and then the bottom of the pile that everyone disrespected.

    Basic respect like saying hi isn't even present in current games.

    I recall it being a rarity in the old games as well.  Perhaps I got in late, but my experience was a world of people too busy with their guilds to bother with anything but a condescending word for those outside of them.

    You can get flamed in some games just for trying to start a conversation, I have stopped playing them altogether. Basic respect, courtesy, is very missing in MMO.

    As far as your other arguments, EQ didn't have any PVP,

    I know that. Still didn't keep the assholes out of it, though.  At least the PKs in UO were honest about themselves; kept the 'blues' reasonably honest as well.  EQers just seemed to keep getting higher and higher on themselves.

    I guess they even forgot that games other than EQ existed.  Even today's WoWers know better than that (even if they do seem to think every game should view WoW's formula as "what MMOs must be.")

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon

    If a game releases with instanced content, or content where grouping is necessary to finish then it MUST include some sort of dungeon finder or LFG that automatically pools players from a set criteria.  Not everyone is in a guild, and not everyone has the time to sit around using the chat channels to form a group.  I can honestly tell you right now for me, it is the #1 reason why I have quit TSW, SWTOR and soon to be GW2.  To not include a LFG is asanine in this day and age.

     

    Now I do not advocate for instant porting and things like that, but the hardest part is always finding the right group and being a intravert like so so many people are in the video gameplay class are its not easy to form our own groups and even if you are i na guild, not everyone in your guild might be looking for the same dungeon or you may be online at a time when most aren't....this is doubly so for me since I am a late owl so I have 2 strikes against me.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

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  • RoxtarrRoxtarr Freeland, MI, MIPosts: 1,122Member
    Can anybody prove that a cross server LFG tool ruins the community? I'm talking about in the final numbers of the game. Can anybody show how this has contributed toward the decline of any game?

    If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
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