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Do LFG System really ruin the community?

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  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member

    I think the cross server LFG tool is the worst, I am not a big fan of the tool as it is, but if it was atleast confined to the server you play on, it would better.....Sure the cross server type may be quick to get the group, but I think you sacrifice your server community in the process.

     

    I think multiples things ruin the community, the move to everyone can solo most content, with railed quest hubs isn't doing much for it either.

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Xthos

    I think the cross server LFG tool is the worst, I am not a big fan of the tool as it is, but if it was atleast confined to the server you play on, it would better.....Sure the cross server type may be quick to get the group, but I think you sacrifice your server community in the process.

     

    I think multiples things ruin the community, the move to everyone can solo most content, with railed quest hubs isn't doing much for it either.

     

    I don't care about a server community. The game community is bigger and better. Why restrict to a single server? If the goal is to make friends, have a bigger pool.

    Cross server LFG tool is the best. In fact, it would be even better to have cross GAME lfg tool. At least we have some cross game social tools like friend list.

  • RydesonRydeson Canton, OHPosts: 3,858Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by Alberel

    Players come to rely upon the automated LFG tools and no longer bother to communicate any more. It completely replaces the part where players used to talk to each other to find other people for their group. It may make it easier to play together with other people but that alone does not make a community. You need that forced communication to break the ice and get players talking in order for them to find friendships, without it they'll just follow in silence.

     

    At least one person gets it.

     

         Make me the 2nd person.. My experience in early EQ was by far the best for community interaction.. It was not perfect, but everything since has been a step backwards.. Rather it was grouping, looking for a port, buff or help in a CR, you had to socilaize to some point, or the game became frustrating.. With todays LFG, why have a friends list?  Think about it!  In EQ, my friends list was my LFG tool.. If for some reason no one was on, and the zone was slow, I would just solo and tinker around as I always had things that could be done..

  • pmilespmiles Federal Way, WAPosts: 383Member

    Perhaps this thread should be titled... "Does laziness really ruin the community?"... because in essence, it is laziness that brought about the LFG system in the first place.  People don't stop playing games because they don't get to see content... they stop playing games because they easily get to see it.  No carrot to chase, it's already jullianed for you sitting in a microwave.  100% success wears thin pretty quickly... it's why the realm populations thin out the way they do.

    I predict 100% soloable or NPC created bots in the future of MMORPGs.  You're already seeing the shift towards it.  Long queue times means unhappy customers... to speed things up, start using NPCs... since you can't fail and you don't speak to one another, there is no need to actually use real players.

    LOL, wouldn't it be a hoot to find out Blizzard already has been using bots?  That some of those people in your group really aren't other players at all.  You'd never know the difference, nor would you care.

    Hence, community is dead because the players prefer no community to begin with.  Well atleast those that still bother to play... those that left, did care.

  • KobaoKobao KausalaPosts: 26Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Xthos

    I think the cross server LFG tool is the worst, I am not a big fan of the tool as it is, but if it was atleast confined to the server you play on, it would better.....Sure the cross server type may be quick to get the group, but I think you sacrifice your server community in the process.

     

    I think multiples things ruin the community, the move to everyone can solo most content, with railed quest hubs isn't doing much for it either.

     

    I don't care about a server community. The game community is bigger and better. Why restrict to a single server? If the goal is to make friends, have a bigger pool.

    Cross server LFG tool is the best. In fact, it would be even better to have cross GAME lfg tool. At least we have some cross game social tools like friend list.

    It's bigger, but being better is your opinion. Smaller communities are better for some people and the social dynamics are more interesting, because people know each other, and everybody can't just do what they want if they want to be respected by other players. Cross-server system breaks the social dynamics, there's nothing anymore, you just have random chats with people you probably don't meet again, which is cool too, but it doesn't mature and evolve the social circle. I don't think the goal is to make more and more friends. Some friends are made, but sometimes you make enemies too and sometimes something between. To me though, the cross-server LFG system is not good even for making "friends", it doesn't promote anykind of social interaction.

  • jimdandy26jimdandy26 salem, ORPosts: 527Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Xthos

    I think the cross server LFG tool is the worst, I am not a big fan of the tool as it is, but if it was atleast confined to the server you play on, it would better.....Sure the cross server type may be quick to get the group, but I think you sacrifice your server community in the process.

     

    I think multiples things ruin the community, the move to everyone can solo most content, with railed quest hubs isn't doing much for it either.

     

    I don't care about a server community. The game community is bigger and better. Why restrict to a single server? If the goal is to make friends, have a bigger pool.

    Cross server LFG tool is the best. In fact, it would be even better to have cross GAME lfg tool. At least we have some cross game social tools like friend list.

    Bigger pool != more opportunity for friendship, actually quite the opposite. Society larger than tribal systems are frighteningly new, and in many ways humans have not adapted to it at all yet.

    I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

    To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  • VideoJockeyVideoJockey Stewartstown, PAPosts: 187Member

    Ruin the community? No. Ruin the game experience? Yes. When games started implementing LFG systems, groups instantly became harder to keep together. There's no accountability or comeraderie when you group with 5 strangers. Add to that forced grouping for certain quests and it was a very big factor in driving me away from MMOs. Relying on flaky kids who dc 20 minutes into an hour+ dungeon crawl is not my idea of a good time. Get wiped out once and half the group leaves.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
     

    Why should games be changed if a few individuals have bad communication skill. If you're LFG for 10 hours the issue is your inability to communicate and socialise.

    And why shouldn't game be changed if many individuals don't want to communicate?

     

    Why are you trying to get a group if you don't want to communicate.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Xthos

    I think the cross server LFG tool is the worst, I am not a big fan of the tool as it is, but if it was atleast confined to the server you play on, it would better.....Sure the cross server type may be quick to get the group, but I think you sacrifice your server community in the process.

     

    I think multiples things ruin the community, the move to everyone can solo most content, with railed quest hubs isn't doing much for it either.

     

    I don't care about a server community. The game community is bigger and better. Why restrict to a single server? If the goal is to make friends, have a bigger pool.

    Cross server LFG tool is the best. In fact, it would be even better to have cross GAME lfg tool. At least we have some cross game social tools like friend list.

    Looking over your posts, you are either:

    1. someone who purpously trolls topics to get a rise out of people by posting the opposite of what everyone has experienced

    2. someone very new to MMO

    I'm going to guess 1, since you purpously seem to want to instigate by posting controversial and misguided opinions.

    In case I'm wrong..Cross server grouping does two things, it breaks up the community because you're now playing with people you will never see again, and it allows people to get away with misbehavior in groups since they have unlimited grouping opportunities.

  • AldersAlders Jack Burton'sPosts: 1,857Member Uncommon

    You can't really ask such a broad question OP.  In what context are we talking?  

    LFG doesn't ruin newer themepark MMO's because most players have an established group/guild they've been playing with for years.  Most of those people don't give a shit about anyone outside of their circle.

    LFG would absolutely ruin oldschool MMO's because all accountability and reputation would be lost.  Those were very important aspects back then and have been lost.

     

     

  • simmihisimmihi -Posts: 613Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Cross server grouping does two things, it breaks up the community because you're now playing with people you will never see again, and it allows people to get away with misbehavior in groups since they have unlimited grouping opportunities.

    Does more things also. Helps me get a group fast when i have only 45min-1h to play, which happens a lot with age for most of us. No LFG tool for me equals playing (mostly) alone. How is that more social than leveling with others, evein if I don't meet them ever again?

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Xthos

    I think the cross server LFG tool is the worst, I am not a big fan of the tool as it is, but if it was atleast confined to the server you play on, it would better.....Sure the cross server type may be quick to get the group, but I think you sacrifice your server community in the process.

     

    I think multiples things ruin the community, the move to everyone can solo most content, with railed quest hubs isn't doing much for it either.

     

    I don't care about a server community. The game community is bigger and better. Why restrict to a single server? If the goal is to make friends, have a bigger pool.

    Cross server LFG tool is the best. In fact, it would be even better to have cross GAME lfg tool. At least we have some cross game social tools like friend list.

    Looking over your posts, you are either:

    1. someone who purpously trolls topics to get a rise out of people by posting the opposite of what everyone has experienced

    2. someone very new to MMO

    I'm going to guess 1, since you purpously seem to want to instigate by posting controversial and misguided opinions.

    In case I'm wrong..Cross server grouping does two things, it breaks up the community because you're now playing with people you will never see again, and it allows people to get away with misbehavior in groups since they have unlimited grouping opportunities.

    He has already stated that he doesn't care about the groups he plays with, and quits out of games at the drop of a dime, since they are made to be fun, so I think I will ignore any social gaming advice from someone that most people would not want to play with. 

     

    His type of fun=ruining others fun, I am not saying a game is more important than rl, but to not even care if you are screwing over other people that are real people too.  They are trying to play and have fun also, not to be online and treated like a npc and if you screw them over, who cares?

     

    Of course he loves cross server, so people do not catch on to him screwing them over, while if it was server only, it would probably get around pretty quickly.

  • BanquettoBanquetto CityPosts: 1,037Member Uncommon

    Absolutely not.


    People have this nostalgic fantasy that LFG systems are making people group up in an anti-social, silent, impersonal fashion, instead of talking and making friends.


    The silent and impersonal people in your group? If the LFG system wasn't there, they wouldn't either. They'd be soloing.


    LFG systems provide a low-stress way for people who just want to play a game, rather than deal with the time and (often) frustration of forming a group. They mean far, far more people engaged in multiplayer play rather than playing solo, and imho, only help the community.

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member

    I played wow before the lfg system...  I don't see any community.  I mean I spam chat for 1 hour to look for a group and the group break up after the dungeon is done.

    You don't need a community when the dungeon is easy enough that you can pug.  Only time I ever need to form a community is when the dungeon is hard enough that require me to play with the same people over and over again.

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
     

    In case I'm wrong..Cross server grouping does two things, it breaks up the community because you're now playing with people you will never see again, and it allows people to get away with misbehavior in groups since they have unlimited grouping opportunities.

    Why can't you have friend on other server?  I play GW2 and all my friend are on different server.  But we are still friend who regularlly chat.  And do dungeon together.

    Stop thinking as cross server and think it as a mega server.  If my friend from other server want to do a dungeon he just send me a whisper and of we go.

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,946Member Uncommon
    Lfg didn't ruin the game, Zerg levelling/dungeons/raids did. If ghost crawler understood people he would know people do not enjoy dumbed down content, that's not how humans are wired up. Chickens forcefed a constant stream of corn are never hungry by are they happy?

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon
    Grouping with random strangers fosters a silent/stfu/get-in/get-out-with-loot-as-fast-as-possible mentality which destroys community.  Grouping with people that you talk to beforehand to get a better understanding how you'd like to run the dungeon helps community.  What we need are better matchmaking systems that can pair people with the type of groups they want to run with.  So all the stfu people can be in a happy hole together.  ;)
  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,946Member Uncommon
    Good idea, ofc the issue is the 'stfu' players think they are wonderful human beings but you can easily attract them by offering a 'pro player' checkbox to keep them together

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Grouping with random strangers fosters a silent/stfu/get-in/get-out-with-loot-as-fast-as-possible mentality which destroys community.

    Yep. There is a world of difference between groups in early EQ and groups now.

    People nowadays just ditch the group if after 10 seconds you're not killing mobs. In Everquest you could say to the group "give me 5 minutes please, I'm on my new PC and setting up my keys", and people would usually be ok with this. Nowadays people throw a hissy fit if they can't cram as much XP into 30 minutes as possible.

    I wonder how that generation of players would deal with early Everquest where you had to wait 30 minutes for a boat to arrive, they would probably lose it and throw their screen out of the window or something. Most people are so direct and rude in new MMO. Not even saying hi anymore, not even talking anymore, no respect for new players, etc.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by simmihi
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Cross server grouping does two things, it breaks up the community because you're now playing with people you will never see again, and it allows people to get away with misbehavior in groups since they have unlimited grouping opportunities.

    Does more things also. Helps me get a group fast when i have only 45min-1h to play, which happens a lot with age for most of us. No LFG tool for me equals playing (mostly) alone. How is that more social than leveling with others, evein if I don't meet them ever again?

    I understand that, I understand that there are people who both want to group and do it in a really short time period.

    But also understand that not all games are for you. In Everquest you had to wait 20-30 minutes just to get on a boat, and travel for 30 minutes just to get to a group, that is if you didn't die along the way.

    My issue is that some players with your time constraints expect every MMO they play to have easymode access to groups and fast travel. I do not go into PVP games saying I want a PVE only game, but many players from WoW and other games come into certain games and whine until they have easy access gameplay (good example Vanguard).

    Some of us want a meaningful instead of fleeting experience.

  • KaosProphetKaosProphet Edmonton, ABPosts: 379Member
    Originally posted by Xthos
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Xthos

    I think the cross server LFG tool is the worst, I am not a big fan of the tool as it is, but if it was atleast confined to the server you play on, it would better.....Sure the cross server type may be quick to get the group, but I think you sacrifice your server community in the process.

     

    I think multiples things ruin the community, the move to everyone can solo most content, with railed quest hubs isn't doing much for it either.

     

    I don't care about a server community. The game community is bigger and better. Why restrict to a single server? If the goal is to make friends, have a bigger pool.

    Cross server LFG tool is the best. In fact, it would be even better to have cross GAME lfg tool. At least we have some cross game social tools like friend list.

    Looking over your posts, you are either:

    1. someone who purpously trolls topics to get a rise out of people by posting the opposite of what everyone has experienced

    2. someone very new to MMO

    I'm going to guess 1, since you purpously seem to want to instigate by posting controversial and misguided opinions.

    In case I'm wrong..Cross server grouping does two things, it breaks up the community because you're now playing with people you will never see again, and it allows people to get away with misbehavior in groups since they have unlimited grouping opportunities.

    He has already stated that he doesn't care about the groups he plays with, and quits out of games at the drop of a dime, since they are made to be fun, so I think I will ignore any social gaming advice from someone that most people would not want to play with. 

    His type of fun=ruining others fun, I am not saying a game is more important than rl, but to not even care if you are screwing over other people that are real people too.  They are trying to play and have fun also, not to be online and treated like a npc and if you screw them over, who cares?

    When most of them are no better, and sometimes even worse, one must ask:  why the hell should he care?  This, again, goes back to my previous point:  LFG isn't the problem.  People are the problem.

  • ArotonAroton Lenexa, KSPosts: 16Member

    No, LFG didnt ruin games communities. People ruined communities.

    The reality is, its all about who is playing the game. In the past, only people with LOTS of time played mmos. Now, people with very limited time play, and so the "community" suffers because they appear to be dicks about efficient use of time.

    Its really that simple.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by simmihi
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Cross server grouping does two things, it breaks up the community because you're now playing with people you will never see again, and it allows people to get away with misbehavior in groups since they have unlimited grouping opportunities.

    Does more things also. Helps me get a group fast when i have only 45min-1h to play, which happens a lot with age for most of us. No LFG tool for me equals playing (mostly) alone. How is that more social than leveling with others, evein if I don't meet them ever again?

    I understand that, I understand that there are people who both want to group and do it in a really short time period.

    But also understand that not all games are for you. In Everquest you had to wait 20-30 minutes just to get on a boat, and travel for 30 minutes just to get to a group, that is if you didn't die along the way.

    My issue is that some players with your time constraints expect every MMO they play to have easymode access to groups and fast travel. I do not go into PVP games saying I want a PVE only game, but many players from WoW and other games come into certain games and whine until they have easy access gameplay (good example Vanguard).

    Some of us want a meaningful instead of fleeting experience.

    There is no reason why you can't have a very very long game, that takes years to finish but have the tasks/quest/events... broken up into short segments, just multiple, multiple segments.

    And/or

    I have nothing against long play times.  We just typically will not play those games,  but when the devs start breaking them into chunks to get us, don't blame us, we aren't demanding anything of the devs, they are trying to attract us. 

    Istaria's adult dragon quest, orginally was about 10-12 hours (alot was figuring it out, now I can do it in about 4-5 hours), however there was about 15 parts to it, each part only took 15 minutes to an hour, depending on how good and prepped you were.  This was a classic, epic quest.  Loved it. 

    I"m told the ancient quest is even longer, but I've never done that one.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aroton

    No, LFG didnt ruin games communities. People ruined communities.

    The reality is, its all about who is playing the game. In the past, only people with LOTS of time played mmos. Now, people with very limited time play, and so the "community" suffers because they appear to be dicks about efficient use of time.

    Its really that simple.

    A lot could be solved if there were just a few selectable options on these tools:

    • Pro-player (prefer fast, expert runs)
    • Casual/social (prefer chat and leisurely pace) 
    • Beginner/experimental (teaching newbies or trying new tactics)
    • RP (roleplaying group)
    Maybe integrate a chat channel that allows players to greet before entering the instance.
  • ArotonAroton Lenexa, KSPosts: 16Member
    Originally posted by Ortwig
    Originally posted by Aroton

    No, LFG didnt ruin games communities. People ruined communities.

    The reality is, its all about who is playing the game. In the past, only people with LOTS of time played mmos. Now, people with very limited time play, and so the "community" suffers because they appear to be dicks about efficient use of time.

    Its really that simple.

    A lot could be solved if there were just a few selectable options on these tools:

    • Pro-player (prefer fast, expert runs)
    • Casual/social (prefer chat and leisurely pace) 
    • Beginner/experimental (teaching newbies or trying new tactics)
    • RP (roleplaying group)
    Maybe integrate a chat channel that allows players to greet before entering the instance.

    I definately agree with this. I think a great solution is paring people with similar play styles.

    That actually sounds really great.

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