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Ways we can improve the state of MMO's

xKopogeroxxKopogerox ShebattPosts: 68Member

I've done my best over the years thanks to my experience to avoid spending $ on MMO's that do not meet my standards. That being said this is my history of $ spent.

MMO's that took my $ over the last decade.

Ultima Online (2-3 years on and off)

Star Wars Galaxies (around year and a half)

World of Warcraft (subbed on and off from release until end of last year)

 

Last new MMO's that took my $ were DCUO Online release (January 2011, subbed for 1st 3 months and I bought Star Craft 2 release, big regret here lasted me for 10 days or less) I did spend another $10-15 on DCUO last year to try it out again.

Over the decade other MMO's I've spent $ to try and give em a chance:

P2P - Aion ( subbed for 3 months), EVE (subbed for 1 month)

F2P - Battle of Immortals $20 and Dead Frontier $20

 

After I retired from World of Warcraft my last MMO was Path of Exile, which was very fun and completely free, but that quickly ended when I finished the game in around 3 weeks. 

DCUO was the only other new MMO that took my $ since 2011 and before that Aion on release.

 

Ok, so now these are the interesting facts. I'm a hardcore player whos spent most of my life (around 22 years gaming a LOT)

$ was never my primary issue for my decisions. The amount of $ I spent drastically decreased as I matured further and become more experienced gamer. I remember buying and renting most console games back in the days from NES, SNES, Play Station 1 and Dream Cast, but I never bought another console when I got my hands on my PC and online gaming.

What disappoints me the most is the level of quality and complexity MMO's today have and in my opinion that's primary due to the fact that they are delivered for the purpose of making maximum profit vs risk, but I believe that would backfire a lot if the majority of playerbase was as careful, experienced and picky as I am.

Anyways, back on topic. I've been forced to abandon MMO's for the time being and do other activities until hopefully something comes out that will be aimed more toward gamers like me. In meantime I also believe that if companies like Trion, GGG, SOE, Bioware, NC Soft and many others worked together and spent quality time and manpower to deliver 1-2 long lasting product they would generate far more revenue, than delivering many "mini MMO's" that for me are not appealing at all to spend any $ on.

 

So in what ways are you helping/have helped improve the state of current MMO's?

 

Starcraft oldschool aka wise/04. SWG/UO aka Wise HeRo, Light Jedi Knight pre-cu (Bria)

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Comments

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    I try not to make posts that don't really have a point.
  • xKopogeroxxKopogerox ShebattPosts: 68Member
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    I try not to make posts that don't really have a point.

    Yes, I agree. The caveman wouldn't see the point of many things that exist today. I would expect more than just trolling on random threads with 800+ posts. I'm glad to see that the mods on these forums matured a bit more by letting trolls like you go wild and rampart without sticking their ban hammer where you like it the most.

    Thx for bumping my thread and I'm sorry you failed to see the point in this thread. I'll be nice and give you a hint "read the thread title", thx.

    Starcraft oldschool aka wise/04. SWG/UO aka Wise HeRo, Light Jedi Knight pre-cu (Bria)

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,255Member Uncommon

    Hey join me. Be a general critic of every hyped up game. It will better those games and future games in the long run.

    i can only imagine how much better TESO, Rift, SWTOR, AoC, Warhammer, Darkfall, GW2 would be if it listened to my criticism in the first place.

    image

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by xKopogerox

    So in what ways are you helping/have helped improve the state of current MMO's?

     

    LOL .. i don't. I play games for fun .. not to improve the state of anything.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,643Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by xKopogerox

    I've done my best over the years thanks to my experience to avoid spending $ on MMO's that do not meet my standards. That being said this is my history of $ spent.

    MMO's that took my $ over the last decade.

    Ultima Online (2-3 years on and off)

    Star Wars Galaxies (around year and a half)

    World of Warcraft (subbed on and off from release until end of last year)

     

    Last new MMO's that took my $ were DCUO Online release (January 2011, subbed for 1st 3 months and I bought Star Craft 2 release, big regret here lasted me for 10 days or less) I did spend another $10-15 on DCUO last year to try it out again.

    Over the decade other MMO's I've spent $ to try and give em a chance:

    P2P - Aion ( subbed for 3 months), EVE (subbed for 1 month)

    F2P - Battle of Immortals $20 and Dead Frontier $20

     

    After I retired from World of Warcraft my last MMO was Path of Exile, which was very fun and completely free, but that quickly ended when I finished the game in around 3 weeks. 

    DCUO was the only other new MMO that took my $ since 2011 and before that Aion on release.

     

    Ok, so now these are the interesting facts. I'm a hardcore player whos spent most of my life (around 22 years gaming a LOT)

    $ was never my primary issue for my decisions. The amount of $ I spent drastically decreased as I matured further and become more experienced gamer. I remember buying and renting most console games back in the days from NES, SNES, Play Station 1 and Dream Cast, but I never bought another console when I got my hands on my PC and online gaming.

    What disappoints me the most is the level of quality and complexity MMO's today have and in my opinion that's primary due to the fact that they are delivered for the purpose of making maximum profit vs risk, but I believe that would backfire a lot if the majority of playerbase was as careful, experienced and picky as I am.

    Anyways, back on topic. I've been forced to abandon MMO's for the time being and do other activities until hopefully something comes out that will be aimed more toward gamers like me. In meantime I also believe that if companies like Trion, GGG, SOE, Bioware, NC Soft and many others worked together and spent quality time and manpower to deliver 1-2 long lasting product they would generate far more revenue, than delivering many "mini MMO's" that for me are not appealing at all to spend any $ on.

     

    So in what ways are you helping/have helped improve the state of current MMO's?

     

    I don't follow what your gaming CV has to do with the question. Could you explain better what it is you are looking for?

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • ClaudeSuamOramClaudeSuamOram Hartville, OHPosts: 122Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by xKopogerox

    So in what ways are you helping/have helped improve the state of current MMO's?

     

    LOL .. i don't. I play games for fun .. not to improve the state of anything.

    Says the guy who CONSTANTLY campaigns for console-like gaming options in MMORPG's.

  • jimdandy26jimdandy26 salem, ORPosts: 527Member
    Originally posted by ClaudeSuamOram
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by xKopogerox

    So in what ways are you helping/have helped improve the state of current MMO's?

     

    LOL .. i don't. I play games for fun .. not to improve the state of anything.

    Says the guy who CONSTANTLY campaigns for console-like gaming options in MMORPG's.

    Heres a hint, he is trolling.

    I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

    To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  • VindicarVindicar ParisPosts: 134Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

     

    I don't follow what your gaming CV has to do with the question. Could you explain better what it is you are looking for?

    What I was about to ask...

     

    Do you actually care for the question you asked or did you just trow your CV (whitch, btw, is pretty common around here) in there looking for some attention ?

    It's okay, make yourself confortable and tell us everything.....

     

    Originally posted by xKopogerox
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    I try not to make posts that don't really have a point.

    Yes, I agree. The caveman wouldn't see the point of many things that exist today. I would expect more than just trolling on random threads with 800+ posts. I'm glad to see that the mods on these forums matured a bit more by letting trolls like you go wild and rampart without sticking their ban hammer where you like it the most.

    Thx for bumping my thread and I'm sorry you failed to see the point in this thread. I'll be nice and give you a hint "read the thread title", thx.

     

    Dood jeez that answer was actually funny... sorry it did hurt your ego but at least you shown your real face within 2 posts...

    Nice job there Damon.

    Old school french hardcore whiner. Online since T4C.

    I was "Namless" and "Daroot" in AO (Rk2)
    Recently known as "Vindicar" (Aion (EU), SWTOR (EU), WoW (EU).
    Actually Known as "Wundicar" in Age of Wushu (US)

  • xKopogeroxxKopogerox ShebattPosts: 68Member

    Sadly, so far I could only see 1 intelligent replay that helps the community to impact and improve the quality of future MMO's, which further proves my point of why MMO's are at the current state at the moment.

    I'll add few more reasons how the community can impact the quality of future MMO's.

    2013 will have a dozen of decent at best MMO's coming out, but if one of those separates from the pack, then we can see the next "WOW", a MMO that I won't be done with for the next 3 months.

    The market right now is too saturated and scattered across too many MMO's, which is a good sign, cuz that just shows that the reign of WOW is over. Guild Wars 2 also failed and I strongly believe if one MMO separates from the pack in this year hopefully we will see a long lasting MMO with 4-5 million players at least.

    Starcraft oldschool aka wise/04. SWG/UO aka Wise HeRo, Light Jedi Knight pre-cu (Bria)

  • VindicarVindicar ParisPosts: 134Member
    Thanks for the insight doc'.

     

    Do you know there is like 10485830003547 discussions on the same subject actually going on... on this very same forum ?

     

    anyway sorry if I disturbed, I'm gone now, you can continue you things.

    Old school french hardcore whiner. Online since T4C.

    I was "Namless" and "Daroot" in AO (Rk2)
    Recently known as "Vindicar" (Aion (EU), SWTOR (EU), WoW (EU).
    Actually Known as "Wundicar" in Age of Wushu (US)

  • BurntvetBurntvet Baltimore, MDPosts: 2,938Member Uncommon
    There is only one way that means a damn: stop paying for crap games. Sites like this do everything they can to hype up and get people to play these said crap games, or else the advertisers would stop spending money here. So, gaming sites and their totally non-objective reviews of everything are indeed part of the problem. Until people stop paying for crap (and with the likes of Neverwinter, Defiance, and the lobotomized TOR) it does not look like that will change any time soon.
  • BahamutKaiserBahamutKaiser Hyattsville, MDPosts: 306Member

    Your not gonna get very far if you pay attention to the critics. Beside that, I agree that gamers could greatly improve the quality of gaming if they simply communicated quality expecations and blunderous titles.

    I would say observe a lot of the buzz titles, GW2 seems to be the next big thing in MMOs, I'm tempted to play it myself if for no reason than insight. Beside that, the next gen of big time MMOs are all coming to us free to play for the most part... so I suggest playing those at the least.

    I also suggest going back to consoles, they polish and quality of a lot of console games these days have gone up tremendously, a lot pioneered improvements to gaming are becoming common place, showing superior quality across the board. It will also give you some perspective when you see boring MMOs which can't even come up with something as fun as a delay permissive solo console installment.

    Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes.
    That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,643Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by xKopogerox

    Sadly, so far I could only see 1 intelligent replay that helps the community to impact and improve the quality of future MMO's, which further proves my point of why MMO's are at the current state at the moment.

    I'll add few more reasons how the community can impact the quality of future MMO's.

    2013 will have a dozen of decent at best MMO's coming out, but if one of those separates from the pack, then we can see the next "WOW", a MMO that I won't be done with for the next 3 months.

    The market right now is too saturated and scattered across too many MMO's, which is a good sign, cuz that just shows that the reign of WOW is over. Guild Wars 2 also failed and I strongly believe if one MMO separates from the pack in this year hopefully we will see a long lasting MMO with 4-5 million players at least.

    I don't think you know what the word 'reason' means.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,314Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by xKopogerox

    Sadly, so far I could only see 1 intelligent replay that helps the community to impact and improve the quality of future MMO's, which further proves my point of why MMO's are at the current state at the moment.

    I'll add few more reasons how the community can impact the quality of future MMO's.

    2013 will have a dozen of decent at best MMO's coming out, but if one of those separates from the pack, then we can see the next "WOW", a MMO that I won't be done with for the next 3 months.

    The market right now is too saturated and scattered across too many MMO's, which is a good sign, cuz that just shows that the reign of WOW is over. Guild Wars 2 also failed and I strongly believe if one MMO separates from the pack in this year hopefully we will see a long lasting MMO with 4-5 million players at least.

    I don't think you know what the word 'reason' means.

     Yes odd.  The OP posits a possible future of games but does not offer any way, in this quote, of impacting the quality of games, and in the OP only hints that buying or not buying them may impact a game. 

    Wonde if there is a language barrier here.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • xKopogeroxxKopogerox ShebattPosts: 68Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by xKopogerox

    Sadly, so far I could only see 1 intelligent replay that helps the community to impact and improve the quality of future MMO's, which further proves my point of why MMO's are at the current state at the moment.

    I'll add few more reasons how the community can impact the quality of future MMO's.

    2013 will have a dozen of decent at best MMO's coming out, but if one of those separates from the pack, then we can see the next "WOW", a MMO that I won't be done with for the next 3 months.

    The market right now is too saturated and scattered across too many MMO's, which is a good sign, cuz that just shows that the reign of WOW is over. Guild Wars 2 also failed and I strongly believe if one MMO separates from the pack in this year hopefully we will see a long lasting MMO with 4-5 million players at least.

    I don't think you know what the word 'reason' means.

    And if I trolled the internet forums with my opinions on others who slightly misuse a word I would too raked 8000+ posts. I do hope next time you'll think more and actually manage to post a constructive message related to the actual thread or don't post at all Loktofeit, unless you want to continue making yourself look bad with your desperate attempts to make others look bad. It's quite sad for someone who's 43 year old.

    The perfect word to use would be "ways", but if you go google "dictionary" you'll see that a reason is a belief or a basis for a cause, which impacted every single decision I've made and will be making for past and future MMO's.

    So, yes the community is welcome to share their reasons how they can impact the quality of future MMO's, thx.

     

     

     

    Starcraft oldschool aka wise/04. SWG/UO aka Wise HeRo, Light Jedi Knight pre-cu (Bria)

  • SephirosoSephiroso Marietta, GAPosts: 1,160Member
    Originally posted by xKopogerox
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by xKopogerox

    Sadly, so far I could only see 1 intelligent replay that helps the community to impact and improve the quality of future MMO's, which further proves my point of why MMO's are at the current state at the moment.

    I'll add few more reasons how the community can impact the quality of future MMO's.

    2013 will have a dozen of decent at best MMO's coming out, but if one of those separates from the pack, then we can see the next "WOW", a MMO that I won't be done with for the next 3 months.

    The market right now is too saturated and scattered across too many MMO's, which is a good sign, cuz that just shows that the reign of WOW is over. Guild Wars 2 also failed and I strongly believe if one MMO separates from the pack in this year hopefully we will see a long lasting MMO with 4-5 million players at least.

    I don't think you know what the word 'reason' means.

    And if I trolled the internet forums with my opinions on others who slightly misuse a word I would too raked 8000+ posts. I do hope next time you'll think more and actually manage to post a constructive message related to the actual thread or don't post at all Loktofeit, unless you want to continue making yourself look bad with your desperate attempts to make others look bad. It's quite sad for someone who's 43 year old.

    The perfect word to use would be "ways", but if you go google "dictionary" you'll see that a reason is a belief or a basis for a cause, which impacted every single decision I've made and will be making for past and future MMO's.

    So, yes the community is welcome to share their reasons how they can impact the quality of future MMO's, thx.

     

     

     

    reasons imply things that motivate you to do something, not what you would actually do to change something. so loktofeit was correct in his reply about your misuse of the word, however dickish such a simple sleight is that he pointed out.

     

    also don't see much point to this thread as a whole but there's alot of that everywhere *shrug*

    image
    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  • laokokolaokoko TaipeiPosts: 2,003Member

    The answer is simple.  You can't improve the state of MMO.

    Only way you can improve MMO is by having a lot of money to make your own company, or become a large share holder that you can impact the game industry.

    The truth is if you are not willing to risk a few million of your own money, why should any game studio listen to you?

    and the truth judging by looking at the mmorpg industry... many of the so called failed games are actually making lots of money.  Ironically.  Maybe that's why there are so many failed game on the market.

  • xKopogeroxxKopogerox ShebattPosts: 68Member
    Originally posted by laokoko

    The answer is simple.  You can't improve the state of MMO.

    Only way you can improve MMO is by having a lot of money to make your own company, or become a large share holder that you can impact the game industry.

    The truth is if you are not willing to risk a few million of your own money, why should any game studio listen to you?

    and the truth judging by looking at the mmorpg industry... many of the so called failed games are actually making lots of money.  Ironically.  Maybe that's why there are so many failed game on the market.

    They don't have to listen, but since their primary goal is taking my $ and making a MMO with bright future ahead I would not just listened to hardcore experienced gamers as I on forums like these, but I would've spam them with pm's and lucrative offers to help build a MMO with a working formula(something that's very rare to see over the last decade).

    So that brings another good way how we can improve the state of MMO's. Companies need to read and monitor MMO forums as these and contact players who they believe are "gods of gaming". I would gladly help a company interested enough to deliver a successful product since I'm game free thx to current state of MMO's. I have far more free time on my hands.

    By the way care to enlighten the community with these so called "failed games" that are making lots of money? I dare you to list 3 that's been around for a while that actually grew significantly, rather than diminished since initial launch.

     

    Starcraft oldschool aka wise/04. SWG/UO aka Wise HeRo, Light Jedi Knight pre-cu (Bria)

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,314Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by xKopogerox
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by xKopogerox

    Sadly, so far I could only see 1 intelligent replay that helps the community to impact and improve the quality of future MMO's, which further proves my point of why MMO's are at the current state at the moment.

    I'll add few more reasons how the community can impact the quality of future MMO's.

    2013 will have a dozen of decent at best MMO's coming out, but if one of those separates from the pack, then we can see the next "WOW", a MMO that I won't be done with for the next 3 months.

    The market right now is too saturated and scattered across too many MMO's, which is a good sign, cuz that just shows that the reign of WOW is over. Guild Wars 2 also failed and I strongly believe if one MMO separates from the pack in this year hopefully we will see a long lasting MMO with 4-5 million players at least.

    I don't think you know what the word 'reason' means.

    And if I trolled the internet forums with my opinions on others who slightly misuse a word I would too raked 8000+ posts. I do hope next time you'll think more and actually manage to post a constructive message related to the actual thread or don't post at all Loktofeit, unless you want to continue making yourself look bad with your desperate attempts to make others look bad. It's quite sad for someone who's 43 year old.

    The perfect word to use would be "ways", but if you go google "dictionary" you'll see that a reason is a belief or a basis for a cause, which impacted every single decision I've made and will be making for past and future MMO's.

    So, yes the community is welcome to share their reasons how they can impact the quality of future MMO's, thx.

     

     

     

     Except in this post you also did not show any ways to impact the quality of future MMO's and in the OP you only hinted about buying games.  Thats it.  All you did was say a bunch of MMO's are coming out and some may be good and the market is saturated.  Not a single way to impact future games.

    edit - and IMO the worst thing a company could do would be contact forum gamers and invite them to participate.  The gods of gaming are not on boards, only the deluded gods of gaming inhabit these boards. 

    edit - Every single AA game released in the last couple years is making money.  Yes they all shrunk since launch, however it is not realistic to expect millions to stick around however they should expect that many on launch.  Companies are now realizing this and planning for it.   They are all releasing new conten and planning expansions.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon

    The answer is simple:

    1) STOP assuming you know what's best for all games. Spoiler: you don't. No one does.

    2) SUPPORT good ideas / good games. If a dev does something you like, go out of your way to make sure they know it. Far too many people in this community sit silently content when they like something. Very few people actually voice out and comment on things that are good.

    3) If you think you know how to make a better game, then start making your own games. Don't start w/ an MMO, start small. It's very doable, and it will give you an entirely new perspective on the reality behind making games, so you can start having real opinions on them that are actually useful.

    Sadly, less than half the people on the sight will do even 1 of the above 3 things. Let alone all 3. It's much easier to play armchair designer and assume you have all the answers.

  • AntiquatedAntiquated Oak Brook, MIPosts: 672Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by xKopogerox
    I dare you to list 3 that's been around for a while that actually grew significantly, rather than diminished since initial launch.

    That's pretty rough, since the data's so suspect.

    WoW, EVE, Runescape.

    What do you do with a past-the-peak-and-now-declining game, that qualifies in all other respects?

    Rule it out on technicality, in classic forum argument fashion?

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,314Member Uncommon
    A game that diminishes after launch, does not mean that 6 months down the road the game is not making money.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • AntiquatedAntiquated Oak Brook, MIPosts: 672Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    A game that diminishes after launch, does not mean that 6 months down the road the game is not making money.

    Yup. Assuming the up-front investment wasn't too large, a game can run on 150k subs for an eternity.

    CoX was still profitable when they pulled the plug.

  • PhoenixC13PhoenixC13 Sonoma, CAPosts: 122Member Uncommon
    Content is what they need.  I miss the old games they had the real content.

    image
  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by Antiquated

    Yup. Assuming the up-front investment wasn't too large, a game can run on 150k subs for an eternity.

    CoX was still profitable when they pulled the plug.

    Not according to NCSoft ;)

    Profitable is somehwat subjective when it comes to some of these mmo companies. Remember earth and beyond ? That game had a pretty solid player base but EA was looking for an EQ and when it didn't turn into it over night they pulled it. Why spend money on a game that isn't making us millions each month ?

    I'm sure CoX finnaly fell for the same reason.

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