I also personally favor a debuff based class rather than a buff based class at launch due to the concern about always having to get buffed up before engaging in battle. Plus, a debuff based class requires active participation in RvR battles (and skill if the system is designed properly) whereas a buff based class *can* sit in one safe/safer area and just keep buffing people.
This is reassuring and I completely agree. I think one of the nicer things about daoc were the debuffs particularly dehaste mixed with pbt. My only issue was that the debuffs in that game were spread throughout the casters and were never really centralized to one character to focus on. The closest thing to a real debuffer was resistance debuff casters and the buff classes with shears.
My *current* thinking is that the 4th class will be a bard-type class that will have a wide range of buffs/debuffs (not heals). I'm really interested in seeing where we can go with a bard that is purely focused on sound-based effects (especially when it comes to group dynamics) that are more than typical bard class RPG tropes.
This is really open to debate though as it is truly just my initial thoughts on the subject.
Ah, there's hope then that my favorite class of all time the Minstrel will make an appearance of sorts. But then again I suppose it will be a new combination of skills that make up this new role. Sounds exciting.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
My *current* thinking is that the 4th class will be a bard-type class that will have a wide range of buffs/debuffs (not heals). I'm really interested in seeing where we can go with a bard that is purely focused on sound-based effects (especially when it comes to group dynamics) that are more than typical bard class RPG tropes.
This is really open to debate though as it is truly just my initial thoughts on the subject.
I think that would be cool. Make buffs quite powerful, but very short duration, so there is strategy in knowing when to use the right buffs. That would be much more interesting than long duration buffs.
It would be cool if you could hear the bard's song for the duration of the buff, and to make all the songs in the same key/tempo that would mix together when twisting. Could even provide additional benefits for timing the twists in an aesthetically-pleasing manner.
This doesn't really have anything to do with the topic directly, but I am bored and daydreaming
Doing battle with a bit of a headache right now (working on this eyechart of Digitial Reward Tiers from home doesn't help) but my thoughts here are:
1) We will be actively looking to discourage buff-botting through the game's design. Now, there is no way to prevent someone from having two accounts on a credit card without screwing over families, friends, guilds, etc. but we're going into this saying that our buff/heal system will not favor "buffbot parking" inside a structure, outside of combat range, etc.
2) In CU, I want pure healers to play an important role in the game. Back at Mythic I had numerous discussions about the role of healers in future games and while I think self-heals are great for quick PvE-based games, in a game like CU, we want to encourage healers to play that role.
3) In terms of other support classes, nothing has been decided yet other than I do want to see at least one other support class in the game at launch. I also personally favor a debuff based class rather than a buff based class at launch due to the concern about always having to get buffed up before engaging in battle. Plus, a debuff based class requires active participation in RvR battles (and skill if the system is designed properly) whereas a buff based class *can* sit in one safe/safer area and just keep buffing people. Also, I want to cut down the number of buffs that are in this game, especially at launch. I do like movement speed buffs though. Again, nothing has been decided yet regarding this part of the discussion.
Thanks, Mark! It keeps gettin' better and better!
Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival
My *current* thinking is that the 4th class will be a bard-type class that will have a wide range of buffs/debuffs (not heals).
So... what are the first 3 classes? (Did you think you were going to slip that one by us? Heh.)
The Holy Trinity, of course.
MarkJacobsCEO City State EntertainmentMemberRarePosts: 649
Originally posted by meddyck
Originally posted by MarkJacobs
My *current* thinking is that the 4th class will be a bard-type class that will have a wide range of buffs/debuffs (not heals).
So... what are the first 3 classes? (Did you think you were going to slip that one by us? Heh.)
No sir, even if I was tempted to do so, I wouldn't even try to slip anything past this crew, that's for sure. OTOH, burying stuff in my blog posts, hidden messages in dialogue, etc. I do so love doing. I posted a few on the Vault that nobody figured out.
As to the other three classes, they are the expected HT, one tank, one healer and one damage dealer but that's only part of the story. Assuming we fund, I want to use the next two years to do something interesting with each one of the core classes. I've got some interesting thoughts on the healer and dps but nothing special has lept to mind yet on the pure tank. The key is that once we've freed ourselves from having to worry about PvE, where can we go with each class to make them fun and interesting to play? This is one of the reasons I'm not doing what I did with Dark Age and planning to have more classes than EQ1 had when we launched. This time, I'd rather have 4 or 5 great classes per realm at launch and then slowly add new ones. If we can create and balance more classes during development, cool but if not, well, that's fine too. The key is I want to work with not only the team here but also hear what other people have to say because frankly, I'm not smart enough to think of every cool possibility but I am smart enough to not even try to do that. The same applies to the stealthers of course. We have some good ideas here, one BSC idea but I want to hear what our backers have to say before we commit to anything. I'm sure somebody will say that this is just more B.S., that I only listen to me, but I look forward to seeing what those same people say after about a year of development, especially if we can implement the BSC idea.
As always, I'm grateful for your support and interest in CU as I am for everyone else who has been part of thise brief but interesting journey so far. Back to work on the eye chart...
We have some good ideas here, one BSC idea but I want to hear what our backers have to say before we commit to anything. I'm sure somebody will say that this is just more B.S., that I only listen to me, but I look forward to seeing what those same people say after about a year of development, especially if we can implement the BSC idea.
As always, I'm grateful for your support and interest in CU as I am for everyone else who has been part of thise brief but interesting journey so far. Back to work on the eye chart...
Yeah, there's a lot of naysayers and trolls floating around this forum.. I can't wait to see CSE prove 'em wrong!
My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.
MarkJacobsCEO City State EntertainmentMemberRarePosts: 649
Originally posted by OgreRaper
Originally posted by MarkJacobs
My *current* thinking is that the 4th class will be a bard-type class that will have a wide range of buffs/debuffs (not heals). I'm really interested in seeing where we can go with a bard that is purely focused on sound-based effects (especially when it comes to group dynamics) that are more than typical bard class RPG tropes.
This is really open to debate though as it is truly just my initial thoughts on the subject.
I think that would be cool. Make buffs quite powerful, but very short duration, so there is strategy in knowing when to use the right buffs. That would be much more interesting than long duration buffs.
Without committing yet, I agree. Long duration buffs, IMO, are not the way to go with this game. They are not bad, wrong, etc. but I want the RvR to be a bit more interesting for all parties. Now, I don't want this to be a button-spamming game either but I do think that we can find the right balance given a long beta cycle.
Originally posted by PerfArt It would be cool if you could hear the bard's song for the duration of the buff, and to make all the songs in the same key/tempo that would mix together when twisting. Could even provide additional benefits for timing the twists in an aesthetically-pleasing manner.
This doesn't really have anything to do with the topic directly, but I am bored and daydreaming
Would be. Good thing one of our programmers is also a bit of a composer, plays multiple instruments and is a sound guy.
Originally posted by PerfArt I believe more and more in this game every day. Take my money already!
Spoke to Amazon payments today actually about our account.
Originally posted by Plastic-Metal
Originally posted by MarkJacobs
We have some good ideas here, one BSC idea but I want to hear what our backers have to say before we commit to anything. I'm sure somebody will say that this is just more B.S., that I only listen to me, but I look forward to seeing what those same people say after about a year of development, especially if we can implement the BSC idea.
As always, I'm grateful for your support and interest in CU as I am for everyone else who has been part of thise brief but interesting journey so far. Back to work on the eye chart...
Yeah, there's a lot of naysayers and trolls floating around this forum.. I can't wait to see CSE prove 'em wrong!
I don't mind the naysayers, I really don't. To me there's a world of difference though between attacking an idea and attacking a person so, as usual it's just the personal stuff I adhore. I might be a slow learner but I'm not going to get drawn into flame-wars, back and forth, etc. whenthings get to that level anymore and I'll just ignore the thread/person. See, I can be taught!
That being said, I think that overall the vast majority of folks here have been awesome and I can say without any fear of contradiction that the community here has already contributed to the evolution of CU since I announced this project. Heck, they have even done that before we announced when I was in full "lurking mode." Whether it is with the game itself or the Kickstarter, I'm glad I came back to the forums to talk and not just played the role of "aloof developer" because I suck at that and I really hate it. I wasn't really sure how it would turn out (as the folks at CSE could tell you if you asked them) but I can't complain as it has been truly net positive here.
Could you possibly make an ability that scales to work better the harder I press my keys? I'm a lousy, old-school, slow-reflexed noob without a macro mouse. At least make it so I don't look like a putz when I confusedly jam keys.
I believe more and more in this game every day. Take my money already!
Spoke to Amazon payments today actually about our account.
Originally posted by Plastic-Metal
Originally posted by MarkJacobs
We have some good ideas here, one BSC idea but I want to hear what our backers have to say before we commit to anything. I'm sure somebody will say that this is just more B.S., that I only listen to me, but I look forward to seeing what those same people say after about a year of development, especially if we can implement the BSC idea.
As always, I'm grateful for your support and interest in CU as I am for everyone else who has been part of thise brief but interesting journey so far. Back to work on the eye chart...
Yeah, there's a lot of naysayers and trolls floating around this forum.. I can't wait to see CSE prove 'em wrong!
I don't mind the naysayers, I really don't. To me there's a world of difference though between attacking an idea and attacking a person so, as usual it's just the personal stuff I adhore. I might be a slow learner but I'm not going to get drawn into flame-wars, back and forth, etc. whenthings get to that level anymore and I'll just ignore the thread/person. See, I can be taught!
That being said, I think that overall the vast majority of folks here have been awesome and I can say without any fear of contradiction that the community here has already contributed to the evolution of CU since I announced this project. Heck, they have even done that before we announced when I was in full "lurking mode." Whether it is with the game itself or the Kickstarter, I'm glad I came back to the forums to talk and not just played the role of "aloof developer" because I suck at that and I really hate it. I wasn't really sure how it would turn out (as the folks at CSE could tell you if you asked them) but I can't complain as it has been truly net positive here.
OMG "Spoke to Amazon payments today actually about our account. " that means setting upamazon affiliates for kickstarter! :P
I completely understand about the personal attacks versus attacks on an idea. Glad the community has contributed to the evolution and design of CU! Thanks again for all the communication, Mark.
My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.
I'm not a fan of stat buffs. If the game is balanced around everybody having +155 strength from buffs, then just give everybody +155 strength and dispense with the whole need to buff at all. Having played countless hours on clerics, druids, and healers in DAOC, there wasn't anything fun or interesting about buffing, rebuffing, or even shearing.
I don't even need to mention how bad it is when buffing classes can be used as bots.
If the main healing class has buffs, then everybody is going to expect healers to spec for buffs and heals and will scorn you if you spec for damage or CC or even for the best healing at the expense of buffing.
For all these reasons, the only kind of buffs I'd like to see in CU are stuff like DAOC's healer's celerity: short duration group buffs where the player has to pick the right time to use them rather than them always being on. And if you have spells like that, don't put them on the main healers.
I don't think it's ever the case where the game is balanced around the buffs given by the buff class. That is, it should never be mandatory that you have a buffer in your group. You should still be able to do content if you swap the buff class for some other role.
It's mostly about providing players with more flexible gameplay, something else to do besides damage damage damage. The goal is still the same: survive and kill enemies. Your group's overall power level should still be relatively the same. The buff class just provides some additional combat variety. It should also provide some variety for the group.
When a buff class is well designed, players actually want to have them in their group due to the relative experience of increased power. Pure damage dealers love experiencing that +155 strength relative to their normal damage. Suddenly bigger numbers feel good. +155 does not feel good if it is permanent; that becomes the new baseline comparison. Casters love suddenly being more free with their spell rotations due to increased mana regen, etc. Other buffs like accuracy, armor and health increases might be less exciting to the rest of the group, but they allow the buffer to pull his weight in the group, and don't leave you wishing you brought another class in his place.
I think the shaman was a perfectly implemented buffing class. Buff sheers, large area interrupts/disease, combat-rebuffs/cleansing, suplementary emergency healing.
High skill cap class. I think it was a better example of a primary buff class than druid or cleric because they usually weren't expected to heal. Good mix of support and disruption.
Also I liked some of the buffing that WoW had. /em puts on flame retardant suit
By this I mean like, instead of a buffbot class, one of the classes might just have a really strong buff of each type like the paladin.
All the different types of buffs in WoW were more interesting than DAoC concentration based buffs.
Auras are cool, but the idea of calling them "auras" thus they belong on a magical class or a bard was a limiting factor to how cool auras could be. Different classes inspire different things IRL when you see them. A frenzied berserker on your backside makes the person behind the keyboard literally say "oh shit". Lets call this reaction "dread". That could be an aura that debuffs enemies around you. What does the effect have? Up to game designers. Maybe its a way to differentiate two classes that are very similar in playstyle, while having them complement each other.
I don't want to even attempt to design classes, but a light tank for example could put dread on nearby enemies. Maybe certain archtypes are more effected by dread than others, and some might not be effected at all. Mystics and seers might piss their pants and take full effect of dread, rogues might take half the effect of dread, while vikings might not be effected by dread.
On the flip side, maybe some classes (*cough* heavy/primary tanks *cough*) might have an aura that cancels out dread if they're close to their friendly softies. Call it valor/courage, whatever. And maybe the classes that are effected by dread are also proportionally effected by courage, and courage might reduce movement imparing effects proportionally. So not only is your heavy tank peeling guardian removing dread, but also if he is snaring your assailants, then you'll move faster than them and be able to get away. An interesting aura-counter aura dance for melee classes. Just don't call it an aura, that sounds magical.
Mystics might also have their own interesting auras like "clarity", if you're close to an allied mystic, you might be less effected by mind altering CC. Less duration, less of an effect, or higher chance to resist, idk. This would be a force multiplier helping your peeling heavy tank resist CC so that he can clear off the baddies.
Additionally being near an enemy mystic could inflict "mystification" (yes its a word), amplifying the effects of mind altering spells, but again maybe mystification and clarity only effect the lesser minded vikings and rogues, and not effect mystics and seers at all.
I have some ideas for rogue auras but that would probably be counter-intuitive unless the effects were completely hidden. Maybe rogues inflict "distraction" on everyone but other rogues. I don't know what it would do though. Something cool maybe.
Also I liked some of the buffing that WoW had. /em puts on flame retardant suit
By this I mean like, instead of a buffbot class, one of the classes might just have a really strong buff of each type like the paladin.
All the different types of buffs in WoW were more interesting than DAoC concentration based buffs.
Auras are cool, but the idea of calling them "auras" thus they belong on a magical class or a bard was a limiting factor to how cool auras could be. Different classes inspire different things IRL when you see them. A frenzied berserker on your backside makes the person behind the keyboard literally say "oh shit". Lets call this reaction "dread". That could be an aura that debuffs enemies around you. What does the effect have? Up to game designers. Maybe its a way to differentiate two classes that are very similar in playstyle, while having them complement each other.
I don't want to even attempt to design classes, but a light tank for example could put dread on nearby enemies. Maybe certain archtypes are more effected by dread than others, and some might not be effected at all. Mystics and seers might piss their pants and take full effect of dread, rogues might take half the effect of dread, while vikings might not be effected by dread.
On the flip side, maybe some classes (*cough* heavy/primary tanks *cough*) might have an aura that cancels out dread if they're close to their friendly softies. Call it valor/courage, whatever. And maybe the classes that are effected by dread are also proportionally effected by courage, and courage might reduce movement imparing effects proportionally. So not only is your heavy tank peeling guardian removing dread, but also if he is snaring your assailants, then you'll move faster than them and be able to get away. An interesting aura-counter aura dance for melee classes. Just don't call it an aura, that sounds magical.
Mystics might also have their own interesting auras like "clarity", if you're close to an allied mystic, you might be less effected by mind altering CC. Less duration, less of an effect, or higher chance to resist, idk. This would be a force multiplier helping your peeling heavy tank resist CC so that he can clear off the baddies.
Additionally being near an enemy mystic could inflict "mystification" (yes its a word), amplifying the effects of mind altering spells, but again maybe mystification and clarity only effect the lesser minded vikings and rogues, and not effect mystics and seers at all.
I have some ideas for rogue auras but that would probably be counter-intuitive unless the effects were completely hidden. Maybe rogues inflict "distraction" on everyone but other rogues. I don't know what it would do though. Something cool maybe.
I'm a fan of each class having a unique "buff" type ability available to them in a specific spec line. This gives each class utility in the group setting.
Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival
Originally posted by Hokibukisa It doesn't need to even be a spec or an ability. It could just be there. Like pure tanks having higher weaponskill and stoicism. Just baked into the class andor archtype. I wouldn't want everything needing to be specced into a support branch. I also hate it when games give you a gimped version of everything and you have to spec into a certain tree in order for it to be any good. Like a wow paladin. :
Well, my thought was that each class might have a spec line that offered some good "solo" abilities and a different line with some good "grouping" abilities, but they were mutually exclusive... you couldn't have both.
Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival
My *current* thinking is that the 4th class will be a bard-type class that will have a wide range of buffs/debuffs (not heals).
So... what are the first 3 classes? (Did you think you were going to slip that one by us? Heh.)
No sir, even if I was tempted to do so, I wouldn't even try to slip anything past this crew, that's for sure. OTOH, burying stuff in my blog posts, hidden messages in dialogue, etc. I do so love doing. I posted a few on the Vault that nobody figured out.
As to the other three classes, they are the expected HT, one tank, one healer and one damage dealer but that's only part of the story. Assuming we fund, I want to use the next two years to do something interesting with each one of the core classes. I've got some interesting thoughts on the healer and dps but nothing special has lept to mind yet on the pure tank. The key is that once we've freed ourselves from having to worry about PvE, where can we go with each class to make them fun and interesting to play? This is one of the reasons I'm not doing what I did with Dark Age and planning to have more classes than EQ1 had when we launched. This time, I'd rather have 4 or 5 great classes per realm at launch and then slowly add new ones.
I'm kind of surprised to hear how few classes you are targeting. It would seem difficult to meet your goal of having unique classes in each realm with so few classes at release unless each class actually has a much wider range of possible specs than was possible in DAOC. (Can you give us any details or even general ideas about whether there will even be specialization in CU or is it just going to be a matter of which weapons and armor you equip and how long you've used them?)
I'm not that excited about a pure song class tbh. I'd rather you give the speed spell to one of the other classes and have a different archetype perhaps archer as the 4th class. Or maybe you could have archers with speed? That would certainly make sense for them being a scouting class and would solve the age old problem from DAOC of groups not wanting to invite archers.
Obviously I understand the total number of classes and which classes is a long way from being decided. The more, the better especially when it comes to archetypes that players will expect in an RvR game. You could easily leave adding additional casters until after release for instance, but many players will be disappointed if archers and assassins aren't in there.
I do agree that 5 classes would be a bit too few, and for different reasons :
- too few classes would be a bit less appealing to some people. Since CU can bring awesome new stuff for a MMO, i think it has to offer headstart a good variety of classes.
- having only 5 classes, to me (i'll try to explain my thoughts on it the best i can), would make those 5 classes a bit too specialised to allow further classes to easily appear afterwards, unless there is so many skills available in each of those 5 classes that one cannot get 40 % of them, then it would allow each player that plays a specific class the possibility to be very different from one another.
- regarding 2nd reason, i think there is room headstart for a wide variety of skills or spells that could not be given within 5 classes only, without making some classes having a too much wide variety of skills/spells.
Of course i might be totally wrong, since i'm suggesting this based on my actual knowledge of what the game will be so far, plus based on what i experienced so far in other mmos.
I think 6 or 7 classes at launch would be better for those reasons.
Tank
healer
dps
scout / stealther
mage
bard / mins / skald
1 original class
Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC Thurka on WAR
Comments
The buffing class I had envisioned:
MAIN
-Has some ability to heal (read base heal)
-Has buffs on timers, and/or range limited to group mates only.(Don't want buff bots)
-Has ability to mitigate,dampen,or neutralize damage.(think prot monk in GW)
SECONDARY
-Has some ability to tank, and/or cast offensive magic, and create benifical group effects, or harmful enemy debuff.
-Has some CC ability
-Has some CC clearing ability.
-Has speed increase.
-Wears Medium or Heavy armors, and/or shield and medium class weapons
Ah, there's hope then that my favorite class of all time the Minstrel will make an appearance of sorts. But then again I suppose it will be a new combination of skills that make up this new role. Sounds exciting.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So... what are the first 3 classes? (Did you think you were going to slip that one by us? Heh.)
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
I think that would be cool. Make buffs quite powerful, but very short duration, so there is strategy in knowing when to use the right buffs. That would be much more interesting than long duration buffs.
This doesn't really have anything to do with the topic directly, but I am bored and daydreaming
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt
Thanks, Mark! It keeps gettin' better and better!
Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival
RED IS DEAD!
The Holy Trinity, of course.
No sir, even if I was tempted to do so, I wouldn't even try to slip anything past this crew, that's for sure. OTOH, burying stuff in my blog posts, hidden messages in dialogue, etc. I do so love doing. I posted a few on the Vault that nobody figured out.
As to the other three classes, they are the expected HT, one tank, one healer and one damage dealer but that's only part of the story. Assuming we fund, I want to use the next two years to do something interesting with each one of the core classes. I've got some interesting thoughts on the healer and dps but nothing special has lept to mind yet on the pure tank. The key is that once we've freed ourselves from having to worry about PvE, where can we go with each class to make them fun and interesting to play? This is one of the reasons I'm not doing what I did with Dark Age and planning to have more classes than EQ1 had when we launched. This time, I'd rather have 4 or 5 great classes per realm at launch and then slowly add new ones. If we can create and balance more classes during development, cool but if not, well, that's fine too. The key is I want to work with not only the team here but also hear what other people have to say because frankly, I'm not smart enough to think of every cool possibility but I am smart enough to not even try to do that. The same applies to the stealthers of course. We have some good ideas here, one BSC idea but I want to hear what our backers have to say before we commit to anything. I'm sure somebody will say that this is just more B.S., that I only listen to me, but I look forward to seeing what those same people say after about a year of development, especially if we can implement the BSC idea.
As always, I'm grateful for your support and interest in CU as I am for everyone else who has been part of thise brief but interesting journey so far. Back to work on the eye chart...
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt
Yeah, there's a lot of naysayers and trolls floating around this forum.. I can't wait to see CSE prove 'em wrong!
Without committing yet, I agree. Long duration buffs, IMO, are not the way to go with this game. They are not bad, wrong, etc. but I want the RvR to be a bit more interesting for all parties. Now, I don't want this to be a button-spamming game either but I do think that we can find the right balance given a long beta cycle.
Would be. Good thing one of our programmers is also a bit of a composer, plays multiple instruments and is a sound guy.
Spoke to Amazon payments today actually about our account.
I don't mind the naysayers, I really don't. To me there's a world of difference though between attacking an idea and attacking a person so, as usual it's just the personal stuff I adhore. I might be a slow learner but I'm not going to get drawn into flame-wars, back and forth, etc. whenthings get to that level anymore and I'll just ignore the thread/person. See, I can be taught!
That being said, I think that overall the vast majority of folks here have been awesome and I can say without any fear of contradiction that the community here has already contributed to the evolution of CU since I announced this project. Heck, they have even done that before we announced when I was in full "lurking mode." Whether it is with the game itself or the Kickstarter, I'm glad I came back to the forums to talk and not just played the role of "aloof developer" because I suck at that and I really hate it. I wasn't really sure how it would turn out (as the folks at CSE could tell you if you asked them) but I can't complain as it has been truly net positive here.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
/freakout
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt
Could you possibly make an ability that scales to work better the harder I press my keys? I'm a lousy, old-school, slow-reflexed noob without a macro mouse. At least make it so I don't look like a putz when I confusedly jam keys.
OMG "Spoke to Amazon payments today actually about our account.
" that means setting upamazon affiliates for kickstarter! :P
I completely understand about the personal attacks versus attacks on an idea. Glad the community has contributed to the evolution and design of CU!
Thanks again for all the communication, Mark.
I don't think it's ever the case where the game is balanced around the buffs given by the buff class. That is, it should never be mandatory that you have a buffer in your group. You should still be able to do content if you swap the buff class for some other role.
It's mostly about providing players with more flexible gameplay, something else to do besides damage damage damage. The goal is still the same: survive and kill enemies. Your group's overall power level should still be relatively the same. The buff class just provides some additional combat variety. It should also provide some variety for the group.
When a buff class is well designed, players actually want to have them in their group due to the relative experience of increased power. Pure damage dealers love experiencing that +155 strength relative to their normal damage. Suddenly bigger numbers feel good. +155 does not feel good if it is permanent; that becomes the new baseline comparison. Casters love suddenly being more free with their spell rotations due to increased mana regen, etc. Other buffs like accuracy, armor and health increases might be less exciting to the rest of the group, but they allow the buffer to pull his weight in the group, and don't leave you wishing you brought another class in his place.
Thanks for the updates
Hopefully there will be at least 5 classes, and the fifth should be roguish class
Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR
For some real fun, give each realm different rogues...one archer, one assassin, one mage. That should light up the forums.
I think the shaman was a perfectly implemented buffing class. Buff sheers, large area interrupts/disease, combat-rebuffs/cleansing, suplementary emergency healing.
High skill cap class. I think it was a better example of a primary buff class than druid or cleric because they usually weren't expected to heal. Good mix of support and disruption.
I think i like this idea. No buffs at all, you are what you are, but a class that is "played" that can reduce your stats for a short amount of time.
When I said i had "time", i meant virtual time, i got no RL "time" for you.
Tank
Healer
Mage
Stealther
Archer
Bard
Unless we could combine two of those types in one class, we're going to need 6 per realm
Possible split classes could be stealther/archer, bard/healer. Not sure you could get away from pure magic dps and pure tank though
Also I liked some of the buffing that WoW had. /em puts on flame retardant suit
By this I mean like, instead of a buffbot class, one of the classes might just have a really strong buff of each type like the paladin.
All the different types of buffs in WoW were more interesting than DAoC concentration based buffs.
Auras are cool, but the idea of calling them "auras" thus they belong on a magical class or a bard was a limiting factor to how cool auras could be. Different classes inspire different things IRL when you see them. A frenzied berserker on your backside makes the person behind the keyboard literally say "oh shit". Lets call this reaction "dread". That could be an aura that debuffs enemies around you. What does the effect have? Up to game designers. Maybe its a way to differentiate two classes that are very similar in playstyle, while having them complement each other.
I don't want to even attempt to design classes, but a light tank for example could put dread on nearby enemies. Maybe certain archtypes are more effected by dread than others, and some might not be effected at all. Mystics and seers might piss their pants and take full effect of dread, rogues might take half the effect of dread, while vikings might not be effected by dread.
On the flip side, maybe some classes (*cough* heavy/primary tanks *cough*) might have an aura that cancels out dread if they're close to their friendly softies. Call it valor/courage, whatever. And maybe the classes that are effected by dread are also proportionally effected by courage, and courage might reduce movement imparing effects proportionally. So not only is your heavy tank peeling guardian removing dread, but also if he is snaring your assailants, then you'll move faster than them and be able to get away. An interesting aura-counter aura dance for melee classes. Just don't call it an aura, that sounds magical.
Mystics might also have their own interesting auras like "clarity", if you're close to an allied mystic, you might be less effected by mind altering CC. Less duration, less of an effect, or higher chance to resist, idk. This would be a force multiplier helping your peeling heavy tank resist CC so that he can clear off the baddies.
Additionally being near an enemy mystic could inflict "mystification" (yes its a word), amplifying the effects of mind altering spells, but again maybe mystification and clarity only effect the lesser minded vikings and rogues, and not effect mystics and seers at all.
I have some ideas for rogue auras but that would probably be counter-intuitive unless the effects were completely hidden. Maybe rogues inflict "distraction" on everyone but other rogues. I don't know what it would do though. Something cool maybe.
I'm a fan of each class having a unique "buff" type ability available to them in a specific spec line. This gives each class utility in the group setting.
Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival
RED IS DEAD!
Well, my thought was that each class might have a spec line that offered some good "solo" abilities and a different line with some good "grouping" abilities, but they were mutually exclusive... you couldn't have both.
Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival
RED IS DEAD!
I'm kind of surprised to hear how few classes you are targeting. It would seem difficult to meet your goal of having unique classes in each realm with so few classes at release unless each class actually has a much wider range of possible specs than was possible in DAOC. (Can you give us any details or even general ideas about whether there will even be specialization in CU or is it just going to be a matter of which weapons and armor you equip and how long you've used them?)
I'm not that excited about a pure song class tbh. I'd rather you give the speed spell to one of the other classes and have a different archetype perhaps archer as the 4th class. Or maybe you could have archers with speed? That would certainly make sense for them being a scouting class and would solve the age old problem from DAOC of groups not wanting to invite archers.
Obviously I understand the total number of classes and which classes is a long way from being decided. The more, the better especially when it comes to archetypes that players will expect in an RvR game. You could easily leave adding additional casters until after release for instance, but many players will be disappointed if archers and assassins aren't in there.
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
I do agree that 5 classes would be a bit too few, and for different reasons :
- too few classes would be a bit less appealing to some people. Since CU can bring awesome new stuff for a MMO, i think it has to offer headstart a good variety of classes.
- having only 5 classes, to me (i'll try to explain my thoughts on it the best i can), would make those 5 classes a bit too specialised to allow further classes to easily appear afterwards, unless there is so many skills available in each of those 5 classes that one cannot get 40 % of them, then it would allow each player that plays a specific class the possibility to be very different from one another.
- regarding 2nd reason, i think there is room headstart for a wide variety of skills or spells that could not be given within 5 classes only, without making some classes having a too much wide variety of skills/spells.
Of course i might be totally wrong, since i'm suggesting this based on my actual knowledge of what the game will be so far, plus based on what i experienced so far in other mmos.
I think 6 or 7 classes at launch would be better for those reasons.
Tank
healer
dps
scout / stealther
mage
bard / mins / skald
1 original class
Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR