Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Bad taste from Warhammer Online and now CU?

2»

Comments

  • RaefarRaefar Aberdeen, NCPosts: 29Member
    Originally posted by fiftyplusgeek
    Originally posted by Vunak23
    Originally posted by fiftyplusgeek
    Originally posted by BowbowDAoC

    behind MJ was EA and Games Workshop.

    He didnt make the final decisions. Big companies aim for lots of money first, MJ aims at making a good game.

    So i think yes it will be very different, and much better than WAR.

    Give me a break.

    MJ was solely responsible for that WHO fiasco. Blaming EA is like blaming your boss for your screw up. Any "leader" who can't successfully manage his superiors isn't much of a leader at all.

    You ever heard of being micromanaged? Yea EA is notorious for that. Just look at EA's past and you won't be so up in arms about it being all MJ's fault. 

    So you know this because you are an employee of EA?

    No decent leader ever allows himself to be micromanaged. You've obviously never worked in a large corporation. When your budget and resources are on the line, you'll fight for it. You'll never get any respect from your keepers if you don't.

    Which is probably MJ's problem. No respect. No credibility.

    So did you like DAOC? If so you have to admit that 50% of the MMOs hes made were good.  I'll admit WHO wasnt the greatest game however I had a fun playing it for 3 years.  Also I believe what  Vunak is talking about is the EA Louse rant article, it was a forum post where a person claiming to be a Mythic employee that was about to be laid off goes into say that Jeff Hickman was to blame for most of WHO failures.

  • grimgryphongrimgryphon Pacific Northwest, WAPosts: 682Member
    Originally posted by Raefar
    Originally posted by fiftyplusgeek
    Originally posted by Vunak23
    Originally posted by fiftyplusgeek
    Originally posted by BowbowDAoC

    behind MJ was EA and Games Workshop.

    He didnt make the final decisions. Big companies aim for lots of money first, MJ aims at making a good game.

    So i think yes it will be very different, and much better than WAR.

    Give me a break.

    MJ was solely responsible for that WHO fiasco. Blaming EA is like blaming your boss for your screw up. Any "leader" who can't successfully manage his superiors isn't much of a leader at all.

    You ever heard of being micromanaged? Yea EA is notorious for that. Just look at EA's past and you won't be so up in arms about it being all MJ's fault. 

    So you know this because you are an employee of EA?

    No decent leader ever allows himself to be micromanaged. You've obviously never worked in a large corporation. When your budget and resources are on the line, you'll fight for it. You'll never get any respect from your keepers if you don't.

    Which is probably MJ's problem. No respect. No credibility.

    So did you like DAOC? If so you have to admit that 50% of the MMOs hes made were good.  I'll admit WHO wasnt the greatest game however I had a fun playing it for 3 years.  Also I believe what  Vunak is talking about is the EA Louse rant article, it was a forum post where a person claiming to be a Mythic employee that was about to be laid off goes into say that Jeff Hickman was to blame for most of WHO failures.

    DAoC was good for a couple of years, until ToA. MJ had a good game for two years, and then spent the next four years ruining it. Then he took that "sidam touch" to WHO as well. I'm sure he's all but perfected it and we'll see how much it shows in CU.

    Personally, I wouldn't touch a Mark Jacobs game if you paid me to play it.

    Optional PvP = No PvP
  • RaefarRaefar Aberdeen, NCPosts: 29Member
    Originally posted by fiftyplusgeek
    Originally posted by Raefar
    Originally posted by fiftyplusgeek
    Originally posted by Vunak23
    Originally posted by fiftyplusgeek
    Originally posted by BowbowDAoC

    behind MJ was EA and Games Workshop.

    He didnt make the final decisions. Big companies aim for lots of money first, MJ aims at making a good game.

    So i think yes it will be very different, and much better than WAR.

    Give me a break.

    MJ was solely responsible for that WHO fiasco. Blaming EA is like blaming your boss for your screw up. Any "leader" who can't successfully manage his superiors isn't much of a leader at all.

    You ever heard of being micromanaged? Yea EA is notorious for that. Just look at EA's past and you won't be so up in arms about it being all MJ's fault. 

    So you know this because you are an employee of EA?

    No decent leader ever allows himself to be micromanaged. You've obviously never worked in a large corporation. When your budget and resources are on the line, you'll fight for it. You'll never get any respect from your keepers if you don't.

    Which is probably MJ's problem. No respect. No credibility.

    So did you like DAOC? If so you have to admit that 50% of the MMOs hes made were good.  I'll admit WHO wasnt the greatest game however I had a fun playing it for 3 years.  Also I believe what  Vunak is talking about is the EA Louse rant article, it was a forum post where a person claiming to be a Mythic employee that was about to be laid off goes into say that Jeff Hickman was to blame for most of WHO failures.

    DAoC was good for a couple of years, until ToA. MJ had a good game for two years, and then spent the next four years ruining it. Then he took that "sidam touch" to WHO as well. I'm sure he's all but perfected it and we'll see how much it shows in CU.

    Personally, I wouldn't touch a Mark Jacobs game if you paid me to play it.

    I can understand your feeling and I can respect your point of view.  It is understandable that if Mr. Jacobs wants to redeem himself to some of his former player base he has a lot to deliver. 

  • grimgryphongrimgryphon Pacific Northwest, WAPosts: 682Member
    Originally posted by Raefar
    Originally posted by fiftyplusgeek
    Originally posted by Raefar
    Originally posted by fiftyplusgeek
    Originally posted by Vunak23
    Originally posted by fiftyplusgeek
    Originally posted by BowbowDAoC

    behind MJ was EA and Games Workshop.

    He didnt make the final decisions. Big companies aim for lots of money first, MJ aims at making a good game.

    So i think yes it will be very different, and much better than WAR.

    Give me a break.

    MJ was solely responsible for that WHO fiasco. Blaming EA is like blaming your boss for your screw up. Any "leader" who can't successfully manage his superiors isn't much of a leader at all.

    You ever heard of being micromanaged? Yea EA is notorious for that. Just look at EA's past and you won't be so up in arms about it being all MJ's fault. 

    So you know this because you are an employee of EA?

    No decent leader ever allows himself to be micromanaged. You've obviously never worked in a large corporation. When your budget and resources are on the line, you'll fight for it. You'll never get any respect from your keepers if you don't.

    Which is probably MJ's problem. No respect. No credibility.

    So did you like DAOC? If so you have to admit that 50% of the MMOs hes made were good.  I'll admit WHO wasnt the greatest game however I had a fun playing it for 3 years.  Also I believe what  Vunak is talking about is the EA Louse rant article, it was a forum post where a person claiming to be a Mythic employee that was about to be laid off goes into say that Jeff Hickman was to blame for most of WHO failures.

    DAoC was good for a couple of years, until ToA. MJ had a good game for two years, and then spent the next four years ruining it. Then he took that "sidam touch" to WHO as well. I'm sure he's all but perfected it and we'll see how much it shows in CU.

    Personally, I wouldn't touch a Mark Jacobs game if you paid me to play it.

    I can understand your feeling and I can respect your point of view.  It is understandable that if Mr. Jacobs wants to redeem himself to some of his form players he has a lot to deliver. 

    He sure does. First he has to rebuild his credibility as a game developer. Then he can go about creating a good game. A tall order, IMO.

    Optional PvP = No PvP
  • RaefarRaefar Aberdeen, NCPosts: 29Member
    Originally posted by fiftyplusgeek
     

    He sure does. First he has to rebuild his credibility as a game developer. Then he can go about creating a good game. A tall order, IMO.

    As far as rebuilting his credibility in the eyes of his former player base there is not much he can do beside make an MMO and with the way the mmo market is today with almost every new game a WoW clone that fails in the first few months he really didnt have to many options.

  • Thornz2000Thornz2000 faraway, AKPosts: 135Member

    If CU is going to be like GW2 money wise I think I will have a go at it.

    As of right now its to early to tell which way the game will go.

    The world we know is going away http://www.graystatemovie.com/
    Look up Agenda 21 as well.

  • RoxtarrRoxtarr Freeland, MI, MIPosts: 1,122Member
    Originally posted by Thornz2000

    I'm not %100 sure to trust Mark Jacobs after the WHO thing.

    Many promises he made was broken.

    So is CU going to be different?

    Thoughts?

     

    Please specifically explain what promises Mr. Jacobs made with WAR that he did not keep (personally)?

    If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
    image

  • tokeshtokesh Vancouver, BCPosts: 35Member
    Originally posted by Plastic-Metal

    Yep.  That's why I've studied the industry, assisted in actual quality assurance, worked with several "big name" companies, and developed mods and working on an indie game title.  Oh yeah, and I'm getting my bachelors for a degree specifically for the game industry.  I'm not qualified at all.

    Filing papers counts as experience?  Because I'd imagine that's about all you did wiithout some sort of bachelors in CE or CompSci.

  • Kryptonite_HiloKryptonite_Hilo Phoenix, AZPosts: 47Member
    I've said it before and I guess I'll say it again: "ToA was great content." Mark didn't mess that up and ToA certainly didn't kill DAoC. It did the opposite for me and completely revitalized the game. I honestly felt that all the DAoC expansions had great content (my only exception was New Frontiers). It's just that every class that was introduced was a step in the wrong direction. 
  • Punk999Punk999 Baytown, TXPosts: 874Member Uncommon

    You cant really put all the blame on MJ or EA, but when you are the LEAD game designer, you will get most of the hate if it sucks.

    Hopefully MJ can fix his rep with this game.

    "Negaholics are people who become addicted to negativity and self-doubt, they find fault in most things and never seem to be satisfied."
    ^MMORPG.com

  • morfidonmorfidon BochniaPosts: 245Member
    AFAIK MJ was responsible mostly for crafting only in WAR. There wasn't one lead designer. What's more it's different when you are independent. If you have big company over you saying you have to do this game for everyone then it will be bad. It has to be bad. For everyone means it's too easy. 
  • SpeelySpeely Seattle, WAPosts: 861Member
    Bottom line: this guy made the best mmo ever (imo) and is saying all the right things. I am more worried about funding because of this kind of negativity than I am about the quality of the game CSE is going to make.

    Remember the last time he wasn't tied to a major publisher? Oh that's right, we got DAoC.
  • falcukfalcuk ashfordPosts: 41Member

    This thread is hilarious, first we have the MJ haters, who arguably have good reason to distrust the man, then we have the MJ fanbois (myself included), and we have people waving around their e-peen riding their steeds of righteousness that everything they preach is gospel because they have xx years doing xx so they must be right.

    Right let me first weigh in with the epeeners, ive worked in the UK for some of the largest companies we have, BBC, Lloyds of London, Societe Generale (ok they are french but they have a branch in London :P) and i have worked at Microsoft in the US and im now back in the UK managing a Telecomms helpdesk which i happen to love. Ontop of this im studying a Degree in Software Development, is any of this relevent? hell no, does any of this make me know more about the software industry? hell no. Get my point? if you dont i dont know how else to spell it out for you.

    MJ made a brilliant game, DAOC, it gathered popularity, enter bigger company, choices were made, playerbase didnt like some of the changes, yada yada the rest is history.

    MJ then makes WHO, incidentaly after it was already canned by GW who had a previous company making the game, and had actually made a fair bit of the game from what i could gather, GW had invested alot of money into this already, got canned, Mythic got offered the job, they took it up, enter EA, it all kinda went to $hit from there im guessing, its no secret to anyone with half an ounce of intelligence and google to come up with the general bad taste EA leaves in most peoples mouths.

    im going to put my personal opinion in here, EA wanted this cash cow released, shizzle got cut from the development schedule due to time issues, probably with a promise from EA bigwigs that it could be added later, then end result was WHO, which as anyone can attest, was attrocious mainly (i bought 3 physical CE copies, woah is me)

    MJ gets hung out to dry because he probably blindly thought that despite all the cuts and whatnot he could hopefully salvage something from the game and probably bring in the missing bits over time, never quite worked out.

    So MJ does what he thinks is best, takes time out, looks at the general state of the MMORPG industry and realises theres still a gaping chasm for a pure RVR type game, goes back to the drawing board, doesnt fix what isnt broken and comes up with CU, and this is where we are now.

    So if you wanna bash MJ, go for it, but give him some credit for getting back on the horse he has fallen off, takes alot of guts to do that, and even more to do so in such a public way and needless to say WITH HIS OWN MONEY.

    MJ if your reading this, please get the kickstarter up ASAP, i have money waiting to invest in you mate.

  • povilezazpovilezaz palangaPosts: 25Member

    The alternative was to just laugh at you because I know my own educational and employment background.  I'm an environmental modeler and animator. There's really no reason to continue, as you're obviously one of the many millions of internet users that live by the belief that everything that spews out of their mouth is the only truth.  Afterall, if it's on the internet it must be true.

    Either way, not going to continue to derail the thread.  If you want to further discuss it, you're welcome to send me a private message.  I just find it exceptionally annoying when people that have no viable experience or education consistently badger developers in a completely ignorant manner.  It's not productive for the community or the industry itself.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Your 24 years old ;)
  • ExcessionExcession NottinghamPosts: 367Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by falcuk

    So if you wanna bash MJ, go for it, but give him some credit for getting back on the horse he has fallen off, takes alot of guts to do that, and even more to do so in such a public way and needless to say WITH HIS OWN MONEY.

    MJ if your reading this, please get the kickstarter up ASAP, i have money waiting to invest in you mate.

    Wait, what?

    What exactly is he doing with his own money, if he is setting up a kickstarter campaign, asking people to give him money, to pay for CU?

    Surely, if he was creating CU with his own money, as you start out suggesting, and even say we should give him credit for doing so, he would not need to have a kickstarter campaign at all.

    At the end of the day, I could not give a rats ass about what he did in the past, or how he did it, but I do think he is taking the piss a bit now, expecting people to hand over cash for what amounts to nothing but blog posts.

    A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.

  • meddyckmeddyck Athens, GAPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon
    Some people act like this is the choice of a doctor to perform life saving surgery or investing all their retirement savings. It's just a guy and his company making a video game. A guy who made a great game, DAOC, but also made some poor decisions with later expansions to that game and with the creation of another game WAR. If the latter outweighs the former for you, then don't donate to kickstarter or only donate a small amount that you can live with if CU ends up disappointing you. It's that simple.

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  • morfidonmorfidon BochniaPosts: 245Member
    Originally posted by Byrhofen
    Originally posted by falcuk

    So if you wanna bash MJ, go for it, but give him some credit for getting back on the horse he has fallen off, takes alot of guts to do that, and even more to do so in such a public way and needless to say WITH HIS OWN MONEY.

    MJ if your reading this, please get the kickstarter up ASAP, i have money waiting to invest in you mate.

    Wait, what?

    What exactly is he doing with his own money, if he is setting up a kickstarter campaign, asking people to give him money, to pay for CU?

    Surely, if he was creating CU with his own money, as you start out suggesting, and even say we should give him credit for doing so, he would not need to have a kickstarter campaign at all.

    At the end of the day, I could not give a rats ass about what he did in the past, or how he did it, but I do think he is taking the piss a bit now, expecting people to hand over cash for what amounts to nothing but blog posts.

    If 2$mln will be collected Mark will invest also his money as he stated. 2$mln is not enough to produce a game. He is checking by creating kickstarter if there is enough demand for this game. What's more it's very cool way to preorder game. People preorder many games but there are always mediators between producer. Because of it producers get probably about 30-50% of the value. Here we can give 100% to the developers. Because of the kickstarter you can have a game without the company above him who would tell him what to do like EA.

  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,231Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BowbowDAoC

    behind MJ was EA and Games Workshop.

    He didnt make the final decisions. Big companies aim for lots of money first, MJ aims at making a good game.

    So i think yes it will be very different, and much better than WAR.

    totaly agreed. the ideas they had in beta (and actually till shot before release) were awesome. then they found a pulisher, and they told em to do this and that... scrap the 3rd city and so on.

     

    publishers want games out fast, to make money. obviously, that's their job.

    and THAT's the advantage we get through kickstarter.

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • Teh_AxiTeh_Axi HalifaxPosts: 380Member

    Yeah theres a large chance the game will be medicore at best for many.

    DAoC is a game based on awesome ideas, was the first MMO I ever tried and I bought the box purely off the sales pitch. Might not sound like a big thing but the number of games I've bought with no knowledge beyond whats on the box you can count on one hand. The game itself though was . . . an acquired taste.

    WAR on the other hand was a game just full of bad decisions. Was it all MJs fault? Probably not but he was still the man in charge. If anyone was going to say "Hey, maybe we should make it so players actually fight each other?" it should have been him and obviously he didn't say it enough, if ever.

    So yeah, other people do share your sentiment.

  • OldskooOldskoo Minneapolis, MNPosts: 189Member
    I don't have a bad taste from Warhammer at all. Both Warhammer and DAoC were fun games for me and my family. I didn't care for the crafting or PVE but I loved the PVP/RVR in it and found it much more entertaining than anything it's contemporaries offered in this aspect. I was a subscriber for about two years and still have the game installed on my computer to play a free account from time to time when I get the urge. The only games I was subscribed to longer was probably EQ 1, EQ 2, and UO. In the end of it, I just grew tired of the game because I played it so damn much. Got more than my money's worth of entertainment out of it, even with it's acknowledged flaws.

    image

  • AmanaAmana New York, NYPosts: 2,538Moderator Uncommon
    This thread has beasically become fighting and a big back and forth. Also, all members of this comunity, including the developers among us, deserve the same respect as any other users on this forum. That doesn't mean special, because you can express negative opinions of a person's work or opinions without personal attacks.

    To give feedback on moderation, contact community@mmorpg.com

2»
This discussion has been closed.