Originally posted by Nanfoodle @Sapphen: How long have you been MMOing? Just wondering.
Since about 2005... so about 7-8 years. I did play a few MUDS but didn't get into MMOs until later.
Whats your MMO history? Games you played longer then 6 months. If I can ask?
Where are you going with this... it's getting kind of off topic. Don't get me wrong, I want to give you the oppertunity to make your point but the first post should've been a two part question. I guess the MMOs I've played longer than 6 months would be AoC, DDO, GW2, LOTR, SWTOR, WAR, and WoW.
Not making a point, trying to understand yours. Where you come from as a gamer that would think your idea would work. No offense just wondering.
Owww greennoodle, I didn't know you cared. Seriously, I thought you had some devious point behind your questions. That's actually pretty big of you, not many seek to understand.
I was inspired from private servers (back in the day of vanilla WoW when people could make their own server and do what they want). I've also noticed that many multiplayer games allow private servers and let players make the rules. I know both of these are a stretch from what I'm suggesting but I think if they give players a place to goof around in (with no real point), they'll eat it up.
The lore we do know is that Orcs wouldn't align with the Nords and Dark Elves. The race relations does not support faction pride. TES is an established IP, players don't have pride in factions but in their characters and the choices they make.
Sapphen, where did you get your info for that statement? Last time I checked orcs where part of the Daggerfall Cov.
I would also like to know why you and the others that do not like the game design,could not join forces and create a mod for skyrim that would do the same thing?
1.ROFL!!! Woops, I meant Orcs wouldn't align with the Bretons or Redguards. 2. The Argonians wouldn't align with the Nords and Dark Elves - hell I doubt the Altmer would align with anyone other than themselves. 3. The factions does not make sense to most people who follow the lore of the races.
1.Honest mistake,so no harm. 2. Really? Then how can you have the Fighters,Mages,Thieves Guilds,and the Dark Brotherhood? 3. I feel it does make sense,as Oblivion had the Mythicdawn,whitch was an amalgamtion of all races trying to overthrow the Imperials.
You can't make Skyrim multiplayer... there is a mod that tries, and they are still working on it, but it would require a lot of programming. Just like what you guys are asking for with TESO would require a lot of program reworking.
I would love it if ESO allowed players to mod their game but I doubt very seriously they are going to let us do that.
Creative License, not license to copy another game and wrap TES around it. Also could you please link to me the figures that shows that only a tiny percent of the population disapproves of faction locks?
Of corse he has no numbers, even the polls dont cover enough people and gamer types to get a good gage of whats, what. But here is what we do know. This is fact. Check the forms for every PvP style game and you will see people always judging it to the DAoC standard. Much like Themepark MMOs are judged by WoW. So that tells you were alot of PvPers are when it comes to a DAoC model. There is alot of players have been waiting for a game like this for a long time. Maybe a small group of hard core TES fans are upset because they wanted a sandbox game. But said and done, TES and DAoC model will pull alot of players and as long as its a good game. It wont matter, people will stick around even you.
I dunno, the only way to tell for sure is when the game is released (maybe at beta). I know that it wouldn't be fair for me to suggest that RvR fans are a tiny portion of the population. Even though I feel like there are a lot of people commenting about faction locks, lack of 3rd person view (w/arms and weapons) and various other systems like combat and class.
The game may be good but I do not think it's gonna get many TES fans playing it, but that's my personal opinion. I also feel that DAoC RvR is more of a legend, it's gonna be near impossible to recreate even with the faction locks. The community has changed - DAoC is still out but no one plays it. I know the graphics are dated but if people was truely happy with their experience then it would've already funded a sequal. People vote with their wallets, not their mouths (which brings us back to the first point of how many like/dislike ESO's current direction).
We just have to wait to see before either of claims the majority of the population.
The lore we do know is that Orcs wouldn't align with the Nords and Dark Elves. The race relations does not support faction pride. TES is an established IP, players don't have pride in factions but in their characters and the choices they make.
Sapphen, where did you get your info for that statement? Last time I checked orcs where part of the Daggerfall Cov.
I would also like to know why you and the others that do not like the game design,could not join forces and create a mod for skyrim that would do the same thing?
1.ROFL!!! Woops, I meant Orcs wouldn't align with the Bretons or Redguards. 2. The Argonians wouldn't align with the Nords and Dark Elves - hell I doubt the Altmer would align with anyone other than themselves. 3. The factions does not make sense to most people who follow the lore of the races.
1.Honest mistake,so no harm. 2. Really? Then how can you have the Fighters,Mages,Thieves Guilds,and the Dark Brotherhood? 3. I feel it does make sense,as Oblivion had the Mythicdawn,whitch was an amalgamtion of all races trying to overthrow the Imperials.
You can't make Skyrim multiplayer... there is a mod that tries, and they are still working on it, but it would require a lot of programming. Just like what you guys are asking for with TESO would require a lot of program reworking.
I would love it if ESO allowed players to mod their game but I doubt very seriously they are going to let us do that.
The Guilds make sense to me while the factions don't because they are claiming that EVERYONE from that race joined with thier region's faction. Guilds are a choice and any race can join - factions are locked. I think they should've done the factions similar to Guilds and let player choose, in-game, which faction they joined.
There would be challenges with modding anything. ESO has multiplayer support already while Skyrim is designed as a single player experience. It would be much easier to mod ESO for a multiplayer game than it would Skyrim.
Creative License, not license to copy another game and wrap TES around it. Also could you please link to me the figures that shows that only a tiny percent of the population disapproves of faction locks?
Of corse he has no numbers, even the polls dont cover enough people and gamer types to get a good gage of whats, what. But here is what we do know. This is fact. Check the forms for every PvP style game and you will see people always judging it to the DAoC standard. Much like Themepark MMOs are judged by WoW. So that tells you were alot of PvPers are when it comes to a DAoC model. There is alot of players have been waiting for a game like this for a long time. Maybe a small group of hard core TES fans are upset because they wanted a sandbox game. But said and done, TES and DAoC model will pull alot of players and as long as its a good game. It wont matter, people will stick around even you.
I dunno, the only way to tell for sure is when the game is released (maybe at beta). I know that it wouldn't be fair for me to suggest that RvR fans are a tiny portion of the population. Even though I feel like there are a lot of people commenting about faction locks, lack of 3rd person view (w/arms and weapons) and various other systems like combat and class.
The game may be good but I do not think it's gonna get many TES fans playing it, but that's my personal opinion. I also feel that DAoC RvR is more of a legend, it's gonna be near impossible to recreate even with the faction locks. The community has changed - DAoC is still out but no one plays it. I know the graphics are dated but if people was truely happy with their experience then it would've already funded a sequal. People vote with their wallets, not their mouths (which brings us back to the first point of how many like/dislike ESO's current direction).
We just have to wait to see before either of claims the majority of the population.
It did. Mythic got bought out by EA (who wrecks everything MMOish) and had them make Warhammer and that was to be DAoC2. As I am sure you have read, I think MMOs are magic and there are core elements that make them work. Warhammer did not follow the model close enough and it flopped. When they started making Warhammer they stopped updating DAoC and outside the graphics the game engien needed updating like any MMO out long enough and it never did. I am sure much like EQ and other MMOs out for a long time that did well. It would still be going strong if it got the love it needed. But maybe your right and no one will be able to copy the magic it was, but its about time someone did try. If it works... could give ESO the life line it needs to make it. IP alone a MMO does not make. Just look at Star Wars and SWToR lol
It did. Mythic got bought out by EA (who wrecks everything MMOish) and had them make Warhammer and that was to be DAoC2. As I am sure you have read, I think MMOs are magic and there are core elements that make them work. Warhammer did not follow the model close enough and it flopped. When they started making Warhammer they stopped updating DAoC and outside the graphics the game engien needed updating like any MMO out long enough and it never did. I am sure much like EQ and other MMOs out for a long time that did well. It would still be going strong if it got the love it needed. But maybe your right and no one will be able to copy the magic it was, but its about time someone did. If it works... could give ESO the life line it needs to make it. IP alone a MMO does not make. Just like at Star Wars and SWToR lol
Maybe, but in my opinion it would be a false life. I know you're an Elder Scrolls fan so you might understand where I'm coming from, I like and respect DAoC but I feel that TES is much more than RvR. There are many elements that could've translated into a MMO format and TES should have gotten their chance to start their own legend (well build upon their current one). CU should be the true successor to DAoC.
It did. Mythic got bought out by EA (who wrecks everything MMOish) and had them make Warhammer and that was to be DAoC2. As I am sure you have read, I think MMOs are magic and there are core elements that make them work. Warhammer did not follow the model close enough and it flopped. When they started making Warhammer they stopped updating DAoC and outside the graphics the game engien needed updating like any MMO out long enough and it never did. I am sure much like EQ and other MMOs out for a long time that did well. It would still be going strong if it got the love it needed. But maybe your right and no one will be able to copy the magic it was, but its about time someone did. If it works... could give ESO the life line it needs to make it. IP alone a MMO does not make. Just like at Star Wars and SWToR lol
Maybe, but in my opinion it would be a false life. I know you're an Elder Scrolls fan so you might understand where I'm coming from, I like and respect DAoC but I feel that TES is much more than RvR. There are many elements that could've translated into a MMO format and TES should have gotten their chance to start their own legend (well build upon their current one). CU should be the true successor to DAoC.
Ya, I get that but how do you know its (exploring) not there? Being able to explore everywhere on any map does not make a great exploring game. It can but there is more to it then that. Its less inviisable walls, rewarded for exploring, reasons to explore. DAoC had locked 3 faction maps and RvR fans where not the only people who played the game. Many a PvE fan still go on about their maps, open world dungeons, so on and so on. Just because it does not have 1 element of exploring does not mean it failed there. I will be the first to admit if they failed with that. I love sticking my nose in every corner of a map. They better make it worth doing so.
It did. Mythic got bought out by EA (who wrecks everything MMOish) and had them make Warhammer and that was to be DAoC2. As I am sure you have read, I think MMOs are magic and there are core elements that make them work. Warhammer did not follow the model close enough and it flopped. When they started making Warhammer they stopped updating DAoC and outside the graphics the game engien needed updating like any MMO out long enough and it never did. I am sure much like EQ and other MMOs out for a long time that did well. It would still be going strong if it got the love it needed. But maybe your right and no one will be able to copy the magic it was, but its about time someone did. If it works... could give ESO the life line it needs to make it. IP alone a MMO does not make. Just like at Star Wars and SWToR lol
Maybe, but in my opinion it would be a false life. I know you're an Elder Scrolls fan so you might understand where I'm coming from, I like and respect DAoC but I feel that TES is much more than RvR. There are many elements that could've translated into a MMO format and TES should have gotten their chance to start their own legend (well build upon their current one). CU should be the true successor to DAoC.
CU will only be a successor to the RVR side of DAOC, not the whole game itself.
I fell in love with the PVE side of DAOC long before I ever got involved in RVR. I loved the IP, and how unique the different PVE lands were for each realm. I must of made and had ranging across all levels of the game 5 or 6 characters in all 3 realms, and never even got to endgame RVR on but one of them. RVR was a fun PART of endgame, but the PVE is what I loved the first couple years.
Simply, CU isn't a successor to DAOC because there's no PVE. It's making a great game out of the fun RVR side of it, that nobody has duplicated well since it was such a sucess. It's a smart niche to go for, because there are a plethora of games with interesting variations of PVE out there currently. There are very few that try to do something different than either the wow style PVP, or sandbox/open PVP. Factional static world pvp has only been tried a couple times. It was a huge success in DAOC, but they didn't do it right in WAR. EA pretty much screwed all that up. I think people were just frustrated and left both games in droves after that. (esp since they stopped updating daoc after making war)
I hope TESO will be a great game, but by no means do I WANT it to be a daoc 2. I'm sure the PVE side is going to be waaaaaaaay different from daoc's anyway, so I don't really see it that way. RVR might be similar, but that's just because so few people have tried to implement a system like that. Still, it's even pretty different from daoc rvr due to the mega server stuff.
It did. Mythic got bought out by EA (who wrecks everything MMOish) and had them make Warhammer and that was to be DAoC2. As I am sure you have read, I think MMOs are magic and there are core elements that make them work. Warhammer did not follow the model close enough and it flopped. When they started making Warhammer they stopped updating DAoC and outside the graphics the game engien needed updating like any MMO out long enough and it never did. I am sure much like EQ and other MMOs out for a long time that did well. It would still be going strong if it got the love it needed. But maybe your right and no one will be able to copy the magic it was, but its about time someone did. If it works... could give ESO the life line it needs to make it. IP alone a MMO does not make. Just like at Star Wars and SWToR lol
Maybe, but in my opinion it would be a false life. I know you're an Elder Scrolls fan so you might understand where I'm coming from, I like and respect DAoC but I feel that TES is much more than RvR. There are many elements that could've translated into a MMO format and TES should have gotten their chance to start their own legend (well build upon their current one). CU should be the true successor to DAoC.
CU will only be a successor to the RVR side of DAOC, not the whole game itself.
I fell in love with the PVE side of DAOC long before I ever got involved in RVR. I loved the IP, and how unique the different PVE lands were for each realm. I must of made and had ranging across all levels of the game 5 or 6 characters in all 3 realms, and never even got to endgame RVR on but one of them. RVR was a fun PART of endgame, but the PVE is what I loved the first couple years.
Simply, CU isn't a successor to DAOC because there's no PVE. It's making a great game out of the fun RVR side of it, that nobody has duplicated well since it was such a sucess. It's a smart niche to go for, because there are a plethora of games with interesting variations of PVE out there currently. There are very few that try to do something different than either the wow style PVP, or sandbox/open PVP. Factional static world pvp has only been tried a couple times. It was a huge success in DAOC, but they didn't do it right in WAR. EA pretty much screwed all that up. I think people were just frustrated and left both games in droves after that. (esp since they stopped updating daoc after making war)
I hope TESO will be a great game, but by no means do I WANT it to be a daoc 2. I'm sure the PVE side is going to be waaaaaaaay different from daoc's anyway, so I don't really see it that way. RVR might be similar, but that's just because so few people have tried to implement a system like that. Still, it's even pretty different from daoc rvr due to the mega server stuff.
Mega servers have nothing to do with ESOs AvA. Much like you have to pick a server in DAoC and that was your war. In ESO you will pick a conflict and the devs have said its like picking a server in any other game. The same 3 sides will fight eachother. Unlike GW2, you will get to know the guilds on the other side of the war and maybe the players. (not as in talk to them, but reputation) Switching conflicts will be as big a move and hard to do as switching servers in any other game.
EDIT: P.S. I was the same with DAoC, I was all about the PvE for a year or more before I ever got into RvR. I played hib at first but switched side and play a Ab side after a friend of mine quit to go back to EQ. I miss the open world dungeons most. Would spend many a night just dungeon crawling.
It did. Mythic got bought out by EA (who wrecks everything MMOish) and had them make Warhammer and that was to be DAoC2. As I am sure you have read, I think MMOs are magic and there are core elements that make them work. Warhammer did not follow the model close enough and it flopped. When they started making Warhammer they stopped updating DAoC and outside the graphics the game engien needed updating like any MMO out long enough and it never did. I am sure much like EQ and other MMOs out for a long time that did well. It would still be going strong if it got the love it needed. But maybe your right and no one will be able to copy the magic it was, but its about time someone did. If it works... could give ESO the life line it needs to make it. IP alone a MMO does not make. Just like at Star Wars and SWToR lol
Maybe, but in my opinion it would be a false life. I know you're an Elder Scrolls fan so you might understand where I'm coming from, I like and respect DAoC but I feel that TES is much more than RvR. There are many elements that could've translated into a MMO format and TES should have gotten their chance to start their own legend (well build upon their current one). CU should be the true successor to DAoC.
CU will only be a successor to the RVR side of DAOC, not the whole game itself.
I fell in love with the PVE side of DAOC long before I ever got involved in RVR. I loved the IP, and how unique the different PVE lands were for each realm. I must of made and had ranging across all levels of the game 5 or 6 characters in all 3 realms, and never even got to endgame RVR on but one of them. RVR was a fun PART of endgame, but the PVE is what I loved the first couple years.
Simply, CU isn't a successor to DAOC because there's no PVE. It's making a great game out of the fun RVR side of it, that nobody has duplicated well since it was such a sucess. It's a smart niche to go for, because there are a plethora of games with interesting variations of PVE out there currently. There are very few that try to do something different than either the wow style PVP, or sandbox/open PVP. Factional static world pvp has only been tried a couple times. It was a huge success in DAOC, but they didn't do it right in WAR. EA pretty much screwed all that up. I think people were just frustrated and left both games in droves after that. (esp since they stopped updating daoc after making war)
I hope TESO will be a great game, but by no means do I WANT it to be a daoc 2. I'm sure the PVE side is going to be waaaaaaaay different from daoc's anyway, so I don't really see it that way. RVR might be similar, but that's just because so few people have tried to implement a system like that. Still, it's even pretty different from daoc rvr due to the mega server stuff.
Mega servers have nothing to do with ESOs AvA. Much like you have to pick a server in DAoC and that was your war. In ESO you will pick a conflict and the devs have said its like picking a server in any other game. The same 3 sides will fight eachother. Unlike GW2, you will get to know the guilds on the other side of the war and maybe the players. (not as in talk to them, but reputation) Switching conflicts will be as big a move and hard to do as switching servers in any other game.
EDIT: P.S. I was the same with DAoC, I was all about the PvE for a year or more before I ever got into RvR. I played hib at first but switched side and play a Ab side after a friend of mine quit to go back to EQ. I miss the open world dungeons most. Would spend many a night just dungeon crawling.
That's true of the megaserver and RVR conflicts, but I guess I'll just have to wait and see. They better make it REAL hard to transfer between conflicts. Not just save up some rvr points and pay them to move.
Yeah, I still remember in my mind the location and layout inside the dungeon of many a non instanced dungeons. Still have them memorized 10 years later LOL. I feel like instanced stuff ruined so much of the communities in mmo's when they became popular.
Just off the top of my head.
Of course darkness falls, but then...
ALB - Tomb of Mithra, Stonehendge Barrows, Keltoi, Tepok's, Catacombs, Avalon City, and caer sidi.
Almost brings tears to my eyes all the memories flooding back actually, LOL.
I hope I enjoy the PVE experience in TESO that much. RVR would just be icing on the cake, to keep me playing for a long time after I've done the pve content.
It did. Mythic got bought out by EA (who wrecks everything MMOish) and had them make Warhammer and that was to be DAoC2. As I am sure you have read, I think MMOs are magic and there are core elements that make them work. Warhammer did not follow the model close enough and it flopped. When they started making Warhammer they stopped updating DAoC and outside the graphics the game engien needed updating like any MMO out long enough and it never did. I am sure much like EQ and other MMOs out for a long time that did well. It would still be going strong if it got the love it needed. But maybe your right and no one will be able to copy the magic it was, but its about time someone did. If it works... could give ESO the life line it needs to make it. IP alone a MMO does not make. Just like at Star Wars and SWToR lol
Maybe, but in my opinion it would be a false life. I know you're an Elder Scrolls fan so you might understand where I'm coming from, I like and respect DAoC but I feel that TES is much more than RvR. There are many elements that could've translated into a MMO format and TES should have gotten their chance to start their own legend (well build upon their current one). CU should be the true successor to DAoC.
CU will only be a successor to the RVR side of DAOC, not the whole game itself.
I fell in love with the PVE side of DAOC long before I ever got involved in RVR. I loved the IP, and how unique the different PVE lands were for each realm. I must of made and had ranging across all levels of the game 5 or 6 characters in all 3 realms, and never even got to endgame RVR on but one of them. RVR was a fun PART of endgame, but the PVE is what I loved the first couple years.
Simply, CU isn't a successor to DAOC because there's no PVE. It's making a great game out of the fun RVR side of it, that nobody has duplicated well since it was such a sucess. It's a smart niche to go for, because there are a plethora of games with interesting variations of PVE out there currently. There are very few that try to do something different than either the wow style PVP, or sandbox/open PVP. Factional static world pvp has only been tried a couple times. It was a huge success in DAOC, but they didn't do it right in WAR. EA pretty much screwed all that up. I think people were just frustrated and left both games in droves after that. (esp since they stopped updating daoc after making war)
I hope TESO will be a great game, but by no means do I WANT it to be a daoc 2. I'm sure the PVE side is going to be waaaaaaaay different from daoc's anyway, so I don't really see it that way. RVR might be similar, but that's just because so few people have tried to implement a system like that. Still, it's even pretty different from daoc rvr due to the mega server stuff.
Mega servers have nothing to do with ESOs AvA. Much like you have to pick a server in DAoC and that was your war. In ESO you will pick a conflict and the devs have said its like picking a server in any other game. The same 3 sides will fight eachother. Unlike GW2, you will get to know the guilds on the other side of the war and maybe the players. (not as in talk to them, but reputation) Switching conflicts will be as big a move and hard to do as switching servers in any other game.
EDIT: P.S. I was the same with DAoC, I was all about the PvE for a year or more before I ever got into RvR. I played hib at first but switched side and play a Ab side after a friend of mine quit to go back to EQ. I miss the open world dungeons most. Would spend many a night just dungeon crawling.
That's true of the megaserver and RVR conflicts, but I guess I'll just have to wait and see. They better make it REAL hard to transfer between conflicts. Not just save up some rvr points and pay them to move.
Yeah, I still remember in my mind the location and layout inside the dungeon of many a non instanced dungeons. Still have them memorized 10 years later LOL. I feel like instanced stuff ruined so much of the communities in mmo's when they became popular.
Just off the top of my head.
Of course darkness falls, but then...
ALB - Tomb of Mithra, Stonehendge Barrows, Keltoi, Tepok's, Catacombs, Avalon City, and caer sidi.
Almost brings tears to my eyes all the memories flooding back actually, LOL.
I hope I enjoy the PVE experience in TESO that much. RVR would just be icing on the cake, to keep me playing for a long time after I've done the pve content.
Well the promis of open world dungeons for full team and 2 man dungeons really makes me happy. Also they said there would be lots of caves and ruins to explore. Cant wait to see what 2 man dungeons are like.
Originally posted by Tuktz Did they say non instanced open dungeons in RVR area as well? I thought I read that somewhere, or am I imagining things.
I have done some digging and found nada on the AvA map.
I hope they do. Darkness Falls style dungeon in the RVR area would fit pretty well with the design layout of this game it sounds like. (underground non instanced RVR enabled PVE mega dungeon).
Maybe put 1 entrance per faction near their main city in the PVE area, and then one central entrance everyone uses in the RVR area.
Originally posted by Tuktz Did they say non instanced open dungeons in RVR area as well? I thought I read that somewhere, or am I imagining things.
I have done some digging and found nada on the AvA map.
I hope they do. Darkness Falls style dungeon in the RVR area would fit pretty well with the design layout of this game it sounds like. (underground non instanced RVR enabled PVE mega dungeon).
Maybe put 1 entrance per faction near their main city in the PVE area, and then one central entrance everyone uses in the RVR area.
Ya, thats my hope as well. To drive people to the AvA map there should be many reasons to make players want to. A DF kinda dungeon would help. Loved how DF was also designed so a single player could go there to earn gear, a team or even raid level bosses. Was by far my fav dungeon of all time.
Originally posted by Grunch I like how suddenly everyone wants to "explore" pve areas. I'm sure you will have plenty of pve areas to explore per-faction. If this isn't enough boring pve for you then buy another account and start in different faction. I think by not allowing people to hold hands and pve side by side separates each realm until they finally meet on the battle field in ORvR. To me, this strengthens the realm vs realm aspect of the game that they are going for. If you still need to quench your thirst for boring dull lowbie pve areas you can buy the strategy guide and stare at the maps.
Nice to see a complete lack of bias against PvE orientated play in this post.
Personally I kind of like to take a break from enjoying PvP by 'handholding' (whatever that is supposed to actually refer too...) in PvE.
It stems from a love of a love of variety rather than a rather more myopic vision of a game which caters only for one type of player.
Originally posted by Grunch I like how suddenly everyone wants to "explore" pve areas. I'm sure you will have plenty of pve areas to explore per-faction. If this isn't enough boring pve for you then buy another account and start in different faction. I think by not allowing people to hold hands and pve side by side separates each realm until they finally meet on the battle field in ORvR. To me, this strengthens the realm vs realm aspect of the game that they are going for. If you still need to quench your thirst for boring dull lowbie pve areas you can buy the strategy guide and stare at the maps.
Nice to see a complete lack of bias against PvE orientated play in this post.
Personally I kind of like to take a break from enjoying PvP by 'handholding' (whatever that is supposed to actually refer too...) in PvE.
It stems from a love of a love of variety rather than a rather more myopic vision of a game which caters only for one type of player.
Call me weird...
He is right about something (and you might be weird too who knows) it seems like MMO to MMO everyone finds something new to complain about. There's no theme to the complaints other than complaining. He points out that its odd that everyone is worried about exploring suddenly and then a couple games ago people could care less and were worried about pvp.
Here's the thing.... a game won't ever be able to do everything. We cry about how we miss DAoC, but they had some huge class/faction balance issues and some classes that were kinda useless overall.
We can't keep expecting every game to appeal to everyone. You're not happy and I get that, but I'm okay with their approach.. to each their own. However, as soon as a game tries to do too much it fails. Scope creep is a horrible horrible thing.
Originally posted by Grunch I like how suddenly everyone wants to "explore" pve areas. I'm sure you will have plenty of pve areas to explore per-faction. If this isn't enough boring pve for you then buy another account and start in different faction. I think by not allowing people to hold hands and pve side by side separates each realm until they finally meet on the battle field in ORvR. To me, this strengthens the realm vs realm aspect of the game that they are going for. If you still need to quench your thirst for boring dull lowbie pve areas you can buy the strategy guide and stare at the maps.
Nice to see a complete lack of bias against PvE orientated play in this post.
Personally I kind of like to take a break from enjoying PvP by 'handholding' (whatever that is supposed to actually refer too...) in PvE.
It stems from a love of a love of variety rather than a rather more myopic vision of a game which caters only for one type of player.
Call me weird...
He is right about something (and you might be weird too who knows) it seems like MMO to MMO everyone finds something new to complain about. There's no theme to the complaints other than complaining. He points out that its odd that everyone is worried about exploring suddenly and then a couple games ago people could care less and were worried about pvp.
Here's the thing.... a game won't ever be able to do everything. We cry about how we miss DAoC, but they had some huge class/faction balance issues and some classes that were kinda useless overall.
We can't keep expecting every game to appeal to everyone. You're not happy and I get that, but I'm okay with their approach.. to each their own. However, as soon as a game tries to do too much it fails. Scope creep is a horrible horrible thing.
Yes they do - everyone wants what they want of course...
However, the IP Zenimax chose has always been noted and played and exalted as a great game series for a few particular reasons - freedom to explore being a central and lasting theme.
This issue didn't come out of the blue and the only reason it was sudden was because their announcement so late in the day was so sudden.
You can't react to something you know about.
Anyway - Zenimax have relented to a certain degree and are putting in full exploration, so this thread is now out of date.
Comments
Owww greennoodle, I didn't know you cared. Seriously, I thought you had some devious point behind your questions. That's actually pretty big of you, not many seek to understand.
I was inspired from private servers (back in the day of vanilla WoW when people could make their own server and do what they want). I've also noticed that many multiplayer games allow private servers and let players make the rules. I know both of these are a stretch from what I'm suggesting but I think if they give players a place to goof around in (with no real point), they'll eat it up.I dunno, the only way to tell for sure is when the game is released (maybe at beta). I know that it wouldn't be fair for me to suggest that RvR fans are a tiny portion of the population. Even though I feel like there are a lot of people commenting about faction locks, lack of 3rd person view (w/arms and weapons) and various other systems like combat and class.
The game may be good but I do not think it's gonna get many TES fans playing it, but that's my personal opinion. I also feel that DAoC RvR is more of a legend, it's gonna be near impossible to recreate even with the faction locks. The community has changed - DAoC is still out but no one plays it. I know the graphics are dated but if people was truely happy with their experience then it would've already funded a sequal. People vote with their wallets, not their mouths (which brings us back to the first point of how many like/dislike ESO's current direction).
We just have to wait to see before either of claims the majority of the population.
The Guilds make sense to me while the factions don't because they are claiming that EVERYONE from that race joined with thier region's faction. Guilds are a choice and any race can join - factions are locked. I think they should've done the factions similar to Guilds and let player choose, in-game, which faction they joined.
There would be challenges with modding anything. ESO has multiplayer support already while Skyrim is designed as a single player experience. It would be much easier to mod ESO for a multiplayer game than it would Skyrim.
It did. Mythic got bought out by EA (who wrecks everything MMOish) and had them make Warhammer and that was to be DAoC2. As I am sure you have read, I think MMOs are magic and there are core elements that make them work. Warhammer did not follow the model close enough and it flopped. When they started making Warhammer they stopped updating DAoC and outside the graphics the game engien needed updating like any MMO out long enough and it never did. I am sure much like EQ and other MMOs out for a long time that did well. It would still be going strong if it got the love it needed. But maybe your right and no one will be able to copy the magic it was, but its about time someone did try. If it works... could give ESO the life line it needs to make it. IP alone a MMO does not make. Just look at Star Wars and SWToR lol
Maybe, but in my opinion it would be a false life. I know you're an Elder Scrolls fan so you might understand where I'm coming from, I like and respect DAoC but I feel that TES is much more than RvR. There are many elements that could've translated into a MMO format and TES should have gotten their chance to start their own legend (well build upon their current one). CU should be the true successor to DAoC.
Ya, I get that but how do you know its (exploring) not there? Being able to explore everywhere on any map does not make a great exploring game. It can but there is more to it then that. Its less inviisable walls, rewarded for exploring, reasons to explore. DAoC had locked 3 faction maps and RvR fans where not the only people who played the game. Many a PvE fan still go on about their maps, open world dungeons, so on and so on. Just because it does not have 1 element of exploring does not mean it failed there. I will be the first to admit if they failed with that. I love sticking my nose in every corner of a map. They better make it worth doing so.
CU will only be a successor to the RVR side of DAOC, not the whole game itself.
I fell in love with the PVE side of DAOC long before I ever got involved in RVR. I loved the IP, and how unique the different PVE lands were for each realm. I must of made and had ranging across all levels of the game 5 or 6 characters in all 3 realms, and never even got to endgame RVR on but one of them. RVR was a fun PART of endgame, but the PVE is what I loved the first couple years.
Simply, CU isn't a successor to DAOC because there's no PVE. It's making a great game out of the fun RVR side of it, that nobody has duplicated well since it was such a sucess. It's a smart niche to go for, because there are a plethora of games with interesting variations of PVE out there currently. There are very few that try to do something different than either the wow style PVP, or sandbox/open PVP. Factional static world pvp has only been tried a couple times. It was a huge success in DAOC, but they didn't do it right in WAR. EA pretty much screwed all that up. I think people were just frustrated and left both games in droves after that. (esp since they stopped updating daoc after making war)
I hope TESO will be a great game, but by no means do I WANT it to be a daoc 2. I'm sure the PVE side is going to be waaaaaaaay different from daoc's anyway, so I don't really see it that way. RVR might be similar, but that's just because so few people have tried to implement a system like that. Still, it's even pretty different from daoc rvr due to the mega server stuff.
MMO history - EVE GW2 SWTOR RIFT WAR COH/V EQ2 WOW DAOC
Tuktz - http://www.heretic.shivtr.com/
Mega servers have nothing to do with ESOs AvA. Much like you have to pick a server in DAoC and that was your war. In ESO you will pick a conflict and the devs have said its like picking a server in any other game. The same 3 sides will fight eachother. Unlike GW2, you will get to know the guilds on the other side of the war and maybe the players. (not as in talk to them, but reputation) Switching conflicts will be as big a move and hard to do as switching servers in any other game.
EDIT: P.S. I was the same with DAoC, I was all about the PvE for a year or more before I ever got into RvR. I played hib at first but switched side and play a Ab side after a friend of mine quit to go back to EQ. I miss the open world dungeons most. Would spend many a night just dungeon crawling.
That's true of the megaserver and RVR conflicts, but I guess I'll just have to wait and see. They better make it REAL hard to transfer between conflicts. Not just save up some rvr points and pay them to move.
Yeah, I still remember in my mind the location and layout inside the dungeon of many a non instanced dungeons. Still have them memorized 10 years later LOL. I feel like instanced stuff ruined so much of the communities in mmo's when they became popular.
Just off the top of my head.
Of course darkness falls, but then...
ALB - Tomb of Mithra, Stonehendge Barrows, Keltoi, Tepok's, Catacombs, Avalon City, and caer sidi.
HIB - Muire, spraggon den, koalinth
MID - Cursed, Nisses, vendo, trollheim, tuscaren glacier
Almost brings tears to my eyes all the memories flooding back actually, LOL.
I hope I enjoy the PVE experience in TESO that much. RVR would just be icing on the cake, to keep me playing for a long time after I've done the pve content.
MMO history - EVE GW2 SWTOR RIFT WAR COH/V EQ2 WOW DAOC
Tuktz - http://www.heretic.shivtr.com/
Well the promis of open world dungeons for full team and 2 man dungeons really makes me happy. Also they said there would be lots of caves and ruins to explore. Cant wait to see what 2 man dungeons are like.
MMO history - EVE GW2 SWTOR RIFT WAR COH/V EQ2 WOW DAOC
Tuktz - http://www.heretic.shivtr.com/
I have done some digging and found nada on the AvA map.
I hope they do. Darkness Falls style dungeon in the RVR area would fit pretty well with the design layout of this game it sounds like. (underground non instanced RVR enabled PVE mega dungeon).
Maybe put 1 entrance per faction near their main city in the PVE area, and then one central entrance everyone uses in the RVR area.
MMO history - EVE GW2 SWTOR RIFT WAR COH/V EQ2 WOW DAOC
Tuktz - http://www.heretic.shivtr.com/
Ya, thats my hope as well. To drive people to the AvA map there should be many reasons to make players want to. A DF kinda dungeon would help. Loved how DF was also designed so a single player could go there to earn gear, a team or even raid level bosses. Was by far my fav dungeon of all time.
Nice to see a complete lack of bias against PvE orientated play in this post.
Personally I kind of like to take a break from enjoying PvP by 'handholding' (whatever that is supposed to actually refer too...) in PvE.
It stems from a love of a love of variety rather than a rather more myopic vision of a game which caters only for one type of player.
Call me weird...
He is right about something (and you might be weird too who knows) it seems like MMO to MMO everyone finds something new to complain about. There's no theme to the complaints other than complaining. He points out that its odd that everyone is worried about exploring suddenly and then a couple games ago people could care less and were worried about pvp.
Here's the thing.... a game won't ever be able to do everything. We cry about how we miss DAoC, but they had some huge class/faction balance issues and some classes that were kinda useless overall.
We can't keep expecting every game to appeal to everyone. You're not happy and I get that, but I'm okay with their approach.. to each their own. However, as soon as a game tries to do too much it fails. Scope creep is a horrible horrible thing.
Yes they do - everyone wants what they want of course...
However, the IP Zenimax chose has always been noted and played and exalted as a great game series for a few particular reasons - freedom to explore being a central and lasting theme.
This issue didn't come out of the blue and the only reason it was sudden was because their announcement so late in the day was so sudden.
You can't react to something you know about.
Anyway - Zenimax have relented to a certain degree and are putting in full exploration, so this thread is now out of date.