Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Do LFG System really ruin the community?

1356716

Comments

  • phumbabaphumbaba kuopioPosts: 138Member
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    So what changed, the people haven't changed and you don't say it's the game's fault so what is it?

    Well.. dev's started to listen to the players. Look into what they do in the game. And at the same time kids wanting to be leet started to rampage in wow with the mentality that you are a noob if you aren't max lvl and raiding within 2 weeks. To max out, kids ran dungeons. So dev's put more dungeons in games. And kids wanted everything else sped up. Do you see where finding parties faster fits in? So my answer to your question is that the playerbase as a whole changed as it's demography changed.

    The target players are these days 10-30 year old males with average spending age probably 15-18. If you want to change something, you need to convince publishers and devs that your ideas that might not appeal to that demography will still appeal to a large enough number of players to generate profit. I would say, it's easier to argue that more social functions should be added than to argue that a feature desired by many should be removed to force some more social activity.

  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser ParisPosts: 1,873Member
    The reall communities exist in guilds. LFG or no LFG the communities are ruined anyways.

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

    image

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by spawn12345
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    No one ruins the community but themselves

    Case Closed.

     

    That's a terrible cop-out and you know it, or you never experienced what old MMO were like.

    I tried Guild Wars after playing Everquest and the difference was night and day.

    I could walk up to a person in pre-luclin Everquest and before I could reach my keys I would have a person throwing buffs on me and saying hi.

    In Guild wars it felt like I was thrown into a world where people lost their ability to communicate, no one said anything. I couldn't believe it and thought it was some fluke. But I saw this pattern in more MMO, I saw it in WoW, I saw it in Vindictus, I saw it in FFXIV, I saw it everywhere.

    The exception to this rule was Vanguard, people didn't communicate nearly as much as in EQ, but they communicate much more than in games like guild wars.

    Communication stands and falls from game design.

     

     

    Here is an example of Everquest. People sitting next to each other, talking to each other, trading things, making groups.

    Does this happen in new MMO? No Sir, it does not. In new MMO you join the factory chain called the LFD dungeon seeker and complete your meaningless dungeon, and you keep using that tool because it's far easier to just be a little robot than to actually make friends, because if you had any friends you wouldn't join the LFD. Socialising be damned.

     

    yeah it has nothing at all to do with that 100000x more people are playing these types of games now

    EQ would be the same shit if the same people played it back then. Has nothing to do with the game

    it has everything to do with the game, people didn't suddenly change and stopped longing for social contact, how many people use facebook, twitter, forums, blog posts, people want to communicate more than ever online

    and what does the amount of people playing games have to do with anything? if EQ had 1 server or 1 million servers, the game would have socialising, it was the game

     

    here you go, Everquest, people chatting for no reason other than to make friends, the game made this possible, it gave incentive to communicate, it built the community up until every person knew each other and you had huge families of players

    it has nothing to do with the people, it's the game

    WoW was launched during EQ and the community was much lower in WoW, we had people writing posts about how they came back to EQ because they missed the community, people didn't change, the games changed

  • EmrendilEmrendil TirionPosts: 199Member
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by spawn12345
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    No one ruins the community but themselves

    Case Closed.

     

    That's a terrible cop-out and you know it, or you never experienced what old MMO were like.

    I tried Guild Wars after playing Everquest and the difference was night and day.

    I could walk up to a person in pre-luclin Everquest and before I could reach my keys I would have a person throwing buffs on me and saying hi.

    In Guild wars it felt like I was thrown into a world where people lost their ability to communicate, no one said anything. I couldn't believe it and thought it was some fluke. But I saw this pattern in more MMO, I saw it in WoW, I saw it in Vindictus, I saw it in FFXIV, I saw it everywhere.

    The exception to this rule was Vanguard, people didn't communicate nearly as much as in EQ, but they communicate much more than in games like guild wars.

    Communication stands and falls from game design.

     

     

    Here is an example of Everquest. People sitting next to each other, talking to each other, trading things, making groups.

    Does this happen in new MMO? No Sir, it does not. In new MMO you join the factory chain called the LFD dungeon seeker and complete your meaningless dungeon, and you keep using that tool because it's far easier to just be a little robot than to actually make friends, because if you had any friends you wouldn't join the LFD. Socialising be damned.

     

    yeah it has nothing at all to do with that 100000x more people are playing these types of games now

    EQ would be the same shit if the same people played it back then. Has nothing to do with the game

    it has everything to do with the game, people didn't suddenly change and stopped longing for social contact, how many people use facebook, twitter, forums, blog posts, people want to communicate more than ever online

    and what does the amount of people playing games have to do with anything? if EQ had 1 server or 1 million servers, the game would have socialising, it was the game

     

    here you go, people chatting for no reason other than to make friends, the game made this possible, it gave incentive to communicate, it build the community up until every person knew each other and you had huge families of players

    it has nothing to do with the people, it's the game

     

    From wich games is this and how old?

  • KaosProphetKaosProphet Edmonton, ABPosts: 379Member
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    Does this happen in new MMO? No Sir, it does not. In new MMO you join the factory chain called the LFD dungeon seeker and complete your meaningless dungeon, and you keep using that tool because it's far easier to just be a little robot than to actually make friends, because if you had any friends you wouldn't join the LFD. Socialising be damned.

    Who's fault is that?

    Everyone who joined the crowd, that's who.  Everyone who decided "easier" trumped "better."

    LFG isn't the problem.  It's the people who use it that are, and that includes those who don't like it but use it anyway.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by Emrendil

     

    From wich games is this and how old?

    Everquest, March 2005.

  • EmrendilEmrendil TirionPosts: 199Member
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by Emrendil

     

    From wich games is this and how old?

    Everquest, March 2005.

    Yep, pretty old. The younger generation of players never played those games before. They were too young. They started with Rift, Tera or Guild Wars 2. If you give them EverQuest or any older game to try, they would probably hate it.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by Emrendil
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by Emrendil

     

    From wich games is this and how old?

    Everquest, March 2005.

    Yep, pretty old. The younger generation of players never played those games before. They were too young. They started with Rift, tera or Guild Wars 2. If you give them EverQuest to try now, they'll probably hate it.

    SoE uses classic servers, that are started from scratch, they do this every 3 years or so. In every server I played the same community was built.

    And EQ non-classic, is not the same anymore as old EQ, for many reasons which I don't feel like explaining, multiboxing, guild lobbies etc.

    But try the game when Sony releases a pure classic server and the exact same communities form. It is very much the game, it has didly squat to do with the players.

  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,231Member Uncommon

    it's the the "auto grp" system that are the prob. it's the people's attitude.

    sure, there is an easy way. but that's not the whole challange.

     

    i think the best example is WoW atm. they have an awesome "easy" lfr/lfg system.

    if you wanna see the lft, you surely can do so, BUT:

     

    if you wanna finnish the challanging parts, you need to setup your own grp, organize, plan, kill yourself.

    those raids are on a completely different lvl. you didnt finnish WoW because you managed to clean the LFR.

     

     

    with several million players online. you DO need a new system. with about 1000 people per server and maybe 10 server per game you had only the pros playing, the geeks. those who wanted to have a challange anyway.

     

    the gaming world changed. yes. there is an easy version. no. it's not the "end" of the world of gaming :)

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    The reall communities exist in guilds. LFG or no LFG the communities are ruined anyways.

    Guilds tend to have a negative impact too, it often creates anti-social bubbles.

    While people tend to socialise within the guild, if the concept of guilds becomes too powerful, people tend to retract themselves from the world and start to live in their guild bubble.

  • EmrendilEmrendil TirionPosts: 199Member
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by Emrendil
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by Emrendil

     

    From wich games is this and how old?

    Everquest, March 2005.

    Yep, pretty old. The younger generation of players never played those games before. They were too young. They started with Rift, tera or Guild Wars 2. If you give them EverQuest to try now, they'll probably hate it.

    SoE uses classic servers, that are started from scratch, they do this every 3 years or so. In every server I played the same community was built.

    And EQ non-classic, is not the same anymore as old EQ, for many reasons which I don't feel like explaining, multiboxing, guild lobbies etc.

    But try the game when Sony releases a pure classic server and the exact same communities form. It is very much the game, it has didly squat to do with the players.

    Well, each game has it's own community. You just have to find the one you like.

  • tupodawg999tupodawg999 LondonPosts: 724Member Uncommon
    No, those systems are a symptom of other things being wrong already e.g. not enough tanks and healers or not enough grouping early on for people to develop a community in the first place.
  • xeniarxeniar Posts: 805Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by tupodawg999
    No, those systems are a symptom of other things being wrong already e.g. not enough tanks and healers or not enough grouping early on for people to develop a community in the first place.

    Translated: Making the game soloable is a bad design for an MMO because it doesn't improve community. People roll dps because soloing with a tank or healer is painfully long. (i should know i leveld every expansion as a tank (WoW)).

  • kostantiskostantis ThessalonikiPosts: 29Member

    Well put in gereral Calm Ocean

    However, I can also agree with many posters here on some topics

    1) the LFG is just a tool and can work if implemented correctly (in our case, with socialization in mind, i.e. how about an LFG tool that introduces some mechanics for conversation, goal setting, time frame etc? -- i said it and trademark it : )  )

    2) While it seems that 10 years are not too much, people do indeed change, the industry is more open, add to that the *evil* new generation of insta-gratification enthousiasts etc (all over-analized in other posts). It's simply an expanded audience now, that simply prefers (?) other things. no more satisfied to be niche.

    3) One other aspect many people seem to voluntarily ingore, even though they probably do it themselves is this: game mechanics and structure. Yes, let's suppose we have all played the hardcore old days mmorpgs. today it seems that the games themselves are removing incentives to socialize. why? see 2) above. however, many old timers do play those new games and often find the "easy-mode" a bit convenient themselves, they just hate to admit it.

    And, despite the fact that "if you don't like it, don't use it", it has been proven over and over again that people (sheeeep) always ake the path of least resistance.... its nature's way, sorry. If you don't force them to socialize, they will not (most of the time). Be that harder content or whatever.

    The argument about social people already having friends is moot and stupid. They do not have friends if the game does not promote socialization, which brings us again to the point where THESE GAMES WERE AIMED AT PEOPLE WANTING TO SOCIALIZE in VIRTUAL WORLDS! and they were....... ROLE-PLAYING games! (sscreams etc). SOrry but that is the truth. And it also true that now they are not aiming at the same crowd. (See also point 5 below).

    4) Important : I saw some people saying that they don't want to wait in ques and try to get groups to get things going etc, they just want to play the game.... My friends, that WAS the game (or a very big part of it). The searching, the "lost" hours, the "downtime"... FFS downtime???? are we serious? what are we? a production factory?

    5) While there was a time that these games offered socialization pleasure to us nerds, and an escapade to being heroes and not mouth-breathing sludges with 5cm thick glasses, now we have a plethora of social networking tools that can take care of that, and here we are, after WoW's success, having mmos being the next single-player experence for the masses

    6) Don't get me started on F2P with its 2-3 months focus time and complete @@@ (2 @@ because i grew a pair being uber in easy-peasy mmos and @ because i need a bot*cough* another player i meant, but he is a newb for healing in case things get more complicated than mashing 3 buttons 200 times per second) for creating or retaining a community.

    phew, that's was it, please read and comment, sorry for typos i am in a hurry to jump from quest to quest, my exp/gold per minute is low so i cannot spend time here, soz gtg

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member

    I'd disagree the LFG ruins anything.

    If something as trivial as an LFG tools 'ruins' a community, was it really a community to begin with?

    LFG is a tool.

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • pmilespmiles Federal Way, WAPosts: 383Member

    It's quite simple... pre-LFG, there was a community... post-LFG there wasn't a community.   Players got used to the idea of not having to interact with anyone... hence the reference to solo-MMORPGS... where the MMO part is essentially made up of nameless individuals who could just as easily be pre-programmed bots.

     

    The problem here is that you are confusing community with groups.  Groups are the assemblage of strangers for the sole purpose of completing a task.  You don't know these people, you don't care to know these people, and wouldn't care if you ever met them on the street in real life.  They are merely a means to an end.  Not a community.  Just bodies.

     

    Community is that thing that has been long lost in MMOs ever since the advent of LFG...  that vibrant life created by the player base in game... you know, the hours of dancing naked in some city while chewing the fat with fellow guildies.  The not realizing that you've spent nearly 8 hours doing absolutely nothing in game but just talking with your friends.  The idea of running some dungeon, not for loot, but merely for fun... an opportunity to just joke around with friends.

     

    The game isn't anything like it used to be... it's not better... just easier.  Easier at the expense community.  If you didn't experience MMOs pre-LFG, you have no idea what you are missing.  Sure, you can complain about having to form your own groups... but if you took the time to make friends in game, you'd have ample people for a group.  I remember playing 24 hours straight just running dungeons with friends and not even realizing it.  None of us needed anything from the dungeons, in fact we ran most of them naked... we just were having too much fun joking around.  THAT'S COMMUNITY.  What you have now is NOT.

  • kostantiskostantis ThessalonikiPosts: 29Member
    Originally posted by pmiles

    It's quite simple... pre-LFG, there was a community... post-LFG there wasn't a community.   Players got used to the idea of not having to interact with anyone... hence the reference to solo-MMORPGS... where the MMO part is essentially made up of nameless individuals who could just as easily be pre-programmed bots.

     

    The problem here is that you are confusing community with groups.  Groups are the assemblage of strangers for the sole purpose of completing a task.  You don't know these people, you don't care to know these people, and wouldn't care if you ever met them on the street in real life.  They are merely a means to an end.  Not a community.  Just bodies.

     

    Community is that thing that has been long lost in MMOs ever since the advent of LFG...  that vibrant life created by the player base in game... you know, the hours of dancing naked in some city while chewing the fat with fellow guildies.  The not realizing that you've spent nearly 8 hours doing absolutely nothing in game but just talking with your friends.  The idea of running some dungeon, not for loot, but merely for fun... an opportunity to just joke around with friends.

     

    The game isn't anything like it used to be... it's not better... just easier.  Easier at the expense community.  If you didn't experience MMOs pre-LFG, you have no idea what you are missing.  Sure, you can complain about having to form your own groups... but if you took the time to make friends in game, you'd have ample people for a group.  I remember playing 24 hours straight just running dungeons with friends and not even realizing it.  None of us needed anything from the dungeons, in fact we ran most of them naked... we just were having too much fun joking around.  THAT'S COMMUNITY.  What you have now is NOT.

    THIS *bows*

    and i have to say again Role-Playing!

    please note that PR now dictates that new games developed are MMOs not MMORPGs. Also, with the advent of the large masses, RP is laughable at best, despised at worst... in mmoRPGs!

    P.S. LotRO has good things going for it in terms of community and RP, but F2P turning to plain greed is doing what it can to ruin it

  • SkuallSkuall UnknowPosts: 1,282Member Uncommon

    since the implemetation in other mmorpgs i was going to say YES! but after playing some mmorpgs where u dont have LFG System....meh community nowadays ruin itself.

    We are no longer a server brotherhood , is every man for himself (other than friends ) not even guildmates care about others in today mmos

    can i live w/o a lfg system? yes ,but i miss it if the mmorpg doesnt have it :( 

     

    its really helpfull , no1 likes to shout for 1h LF healer/tank , or even 1M

    helps low lvl dungeons , so new players can experience dungeons while leveling and become better players

     

  • xeniarxeniar Posts: 805Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by pmiles

    It's quite simple... pre-LFG, there was a community... post-LFG there wasn't a community.   Players got used to the idea of not having to interact with anyone... hence the reference to solo-MMORPGS... where the MMO part is essentially made up of nameless individuals who could just as easily be pre-programmed bots.

     

    The problem here is that you are confusing community with groups.  Groups are the assemblage of strangers for the sole purpose of completing a task.  You don't know these people, you don't care to know these people, and wouldn't care if you ever met them on the street in real life.  They are merely a means to an end.  Not a community.  Just bodies.

     

    Community is that thing that has been long lost in MMOs ever since the advent of LFG...  that vibrant life created by the player base in game... you know, the hours of dancing naked in some city while chewing the fat with fellow guildies.  The not realizing that you've spent nearly 8 hours doing absolutely nothing in game but just talking with your friends.  The idea of running some dungeon, not for loot, but merely for fun... an opportunity to just joke around with friends.

     

    The game isn't anything like it used to be... it's not better... just easier.  Easier at the expense community.  If you didn't experience MMOs pre-LFG, you have no idea what you are missing.  Sure, you can complain about having to form your own groups... but if you took the time to make friends in game, you'd have ample people for a group.  I remember playing 24 hours straight just running dungeons with friends and not even realizing it.  None of us needed anything from the dungeons, in fact we ran most of them naked... we just were having too much fun joking around.  THAT'S COMMUNITY.  What you have now is NOT.

    oh wow,

    your sir are far better with words then me :D

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    Spamming LFG in chat is not my idea of playing a game.

    Community is not that important anyway. There is few games that you cannot find some decent people to play with. Heck, there are even good people to play with in ARPGs, and other non-MMOs.

    So LFG is pretty much a must feature for me.

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,853Member Uncommon
    It's not the LFG feature that ruins the community, it's the "I don't care about you because I'll requeue after this is over" attitude.

    I play MMOs becaus I like being around real life people so by default the community is important. If you want to be an isolationist in a world of others more power to you.
  • azmundaiazmundai St Louis, MOPosts: 1,417Member

    I think x-server LFD tool was great for wow for the 1-79 crowd (cap was 80 when it released). Back then and it is still that way even with the x-server zones, you could got 1-79 without seeing more than one or two people in each zone, so an x-server lfd tool to me is a good solution for this. No community was being formed at those times anyway. I don't think it should be in the game at release though.

    I think a same server LFD tool for end game that doesn't leap you to the destination would be fine, and should be in the game at release, but with x-server LFD at endgame it's barely an MMO anymore for anyone who doesn't raid except that there are people to compete with over the 8 billion daily quests you have to grind every day.

    LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
    I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Aelious
    It's not the LFG feature that ruins the community, it's the "I don't care about you because I'll requeue after this is over" attitude.

    I play MMOs becaus I like being around real life people so by default the community is important. If you want to be an isolationist in a world of others more power to you.

    Just play with your friends.

    Personally, i will hit the quit button if there is anything i don't like in my group. It is a good feature. There is no reason i should put up with anyone when i want to have fun .. and they shouldn't put up with me either.

    This "community is important" cliche ... is just too vague and general. If i can meet enough people to have fun (and occasionally hit the quit button), why do i need to care if the other 10 million people i will never meet are nice or not?

    Plus, i have enough RL friends & family. I am not really seeking life-long friendship in GAMES.

    So it is not about being an isolationist. It is about having fun with others, and not worry about lofty ideas like "community" or "good of the human kind".

  • ScambugScambug TortugaPosts: 389Member

    I think cross realm LFG ruins community feel, not same server LFG.

    Me, I don't like either, they ruin immersion. I prefer looking for a group through chat and travelling to the dungeon on a mount.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Pie_Rat

    I think cross realm LFG ruins community feel, not same server LFG.

    Me, I don't like either, they ruin immersion. I prefer looking for a group through chat and travelling to the dungeon on a mount.

    I would rather break some immersion than wasting my time.

    In fact, cross realm is great. Cross game is even better. It is not like you don't know the other player is a real human being who can play other games, or log into any server.

Sign In or Register to comment.