I played FFXI and though I hated the grinding gears of gameplay, I did recognize the value of being free to socialize and create greater relationships... But, I think your generalizing and assuming the reason for your lack of socializing inaccurately. The main reasons I had so much time to socialize in classic MMO gameplay was massive downtimes. Times spent LFG, times spent recovering, freedom of communication during combat, sadly, because the combat was so scripted and automated that I had freedom to shoot the breeze with players.
You could actually have a quest based exp system and still be social if the game retained those features, I imagine the real reason communication died wasn't questing for exp, but all the other optimizations that modern gameplay have added which cut out the basic lack of a game to actually participate in...
While I personally prefer an action oriented game, which unfortunately excludes freedom to chat, I can appreciate a hands off combat system which has automated gameplay simply for the sake of social opportunity, but only if it had enough programmable customization to your action and depth of tactical variation in order to at least force some decisions beyond the basic pattern mashing.
The idea of a less action packed, more programmed and macro oriented game doesn't sound thrilling in the least. But if done in the right context, like a game where you operate small trios of units individually, with gameplay immitating a more limited version of what is present in console games like FFXII and FFXIII, than players would have a definable reason to group up and battle in squads and let their personally programmed teams duke it out, vs mobs, or on quests, while having most of the freedom necessary to socialize as their little teams carve away at mobs.
It's horribly sad that this hasn't happened a long time ago, but I think misassociation of qualities in MMOs with the wrong source has lead to years of unsuccessfully attempting to immitate the appreciated qualities of classic entries.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.
Mob grinding is definitely better imo. Quests should be epic and heroic feats, not helping Farmer Joe clear his field of rats or running errands for Guardsman Bob, who needs you to deliver a message to his girlfriend.
I think lowbie quests *shouldn't* be heroic as that's one of the things that makes them silly. I think they should mostly be mundane repeatable chores that fit in with the world like collecting food or killing vermin or delivering mail but as you level yeah - they should be quests not chores and personally speaking, preferably take a long time and maybe only one at a time. If quests had companion slots with separate rewards for helping the quester for each stage of their quest then a player's long multi-stage quest might involve dozens of other players at different times over the course of it like EQ's epics.
Make mobs in high lvl in a true monster , not a rat.
Created a true monster can wipeout a party with a single mistake.
Make them worth to they power. 1 true monster = 1000 rat
"Kill one alway better than kill thousand"
2h to kill 1 boss and lvl up or 2h kill 1 million rat , what't better ?
Hard time to kill true monster , may be you will fail and lost all or go easy with 1million rat ?
We lack of choses now.
I myself don't like the idea quest xp grind , since quest's about enjoy and solve problem , not a grind tool. Can you enjoy quest when you have hurry to lvl up, they not even read what quest write , just click a hind and every thing solver . What kind of "quest" is it ?
In EQ, we earned xp several hours at a time by killing mobs. Much of that time involved joking around with newly met friends. Often, you came to respect their wit and skill and made a game-long friend and in some cases a lifelong friend.
In Vanguard, I earned xp by doing quests. This never involved staying in one place for more than just a few minutes. If you are busy moving or fighting, you don't have time to chat. So no new friends were made in Vanguard.
Most games require xp, and many refer to that as a 'grind.' So pick your poison.
There are certianly trade-offs with both, but I'd prefer mob grinds.
Mob grinds can get VERY monotinus very fast, but they also provide for the opportunity to socialize with guildies in guild chat or on Vent / Team Speak. With that said, if you like to keep to yourself and enjoy more of a solo experience, this will bore you to tears over a more interactive quest based system.
ALSO, mob farming lends itself to territory wars (if it's a PvP game). Big hairy brown bears drops a particular piece of gear or resource thats highly needed by crafters....then there is an opportunity for guilds or players to fight over those resources. This builds a whole other side of player generated content through in game rivalries, alliances, etc. (This was one of the strongest features of Lineage 2) These sort of MMO games are usually way more competitive than quest based systems that provide interuption free instances of each player's experience.
Originally posted by Nitth Mob.Where's the poll????
Why didn't I think of that. /facepalm
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
This question really pokes at the true issue today with MMO's in general. Everyone wants everything NOW! We feel we must rush till max lvl to just play,or have "end game" content.
Why not have leveling content??? oh wait EQ did that, there were zones, dungens as we leveled to keep us content. We were able to do EPIC quest for our weapons as we leveled.....this is where games fail now in my opinion, they focus everything after max lvl.
I truly hope EQnext brings this back....bring back content where we can raid not at max lvl, bring back content for 30+ players needed. I recall raiding to kill the AoW needing over 60 people when that content came out, which that took time it BUILT player relationships!
....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!
I'm finding it difficult to believe how many people in this thread claim they would prefer to just mindlessly grind mobs for xp instead of questing. Quests can be made up of combat/non-combat type of activities, vehicle type encounters, exploration, etc. Some may be quick...other may be long epic chains.
Basically, you are choosing one humungus kill 1 million rats quest to gain xp. Really? That's fun to you? I see people argue for it because they had fun socializing while farming the mobs...but can't people socialize while questing? I'm just really amazed at the preferece people are claiming...are you all botters?
In EQ, we earned xp several hours at a time by killing mobs. Much of that time involved joking around with newly met friends. Often, you came to respect their wit and skill and made a game-long friend and in some cases a lifelong friend.
In Vanguard, I earned xp by doing quests. This never involved staying in one place for more than just a few minutes. If you are busy moving or fighting, you don't have time to chat. So no new friends were made in Vanguard.
Most games require xp, and many refer to that as a 'grind.' So pick your poison.
I like both the quest and the mob 'grind'. As long as leveling doesn't go too fast. Or rather goes nice & slow. I don't want to kill 5 mobs or complete 2 quests and gain a level...
About the mob grind... Yeah, I've met lots of friends doing so in Lineage II back in the days. Awesome experience, both gaming and social. Good thing that Lineage II allowed chat & skill use at once (F- and ALT-keys for skills)...
About quest grind... Yeah, sadly, you won't stay long in one spot, but good thing that Vanguard (just to name that one again) has a very active global/continent chat to socialize in...
I'm finding it difficult to believe how many people in this thread claim they would prefer to just mindlessly grind mobs for xp instead of questing. Quests can be made up of combat/non-combat type of activities, vehicle type encounters, exploration, etc. Some may be quick...other may be long epic chains.
Basically, you are choosing one humungus kill 1 million rats quest to gain xp. Really? That's fun to you? I see people argue for it because they had fun socializing while farming the mobs...but can't people socialize while questing? I'm just really amazed at the preferece people are claiming...are you all botters?
....I hear ya, I believe we can do quest and group up and communicate also but at least the games Ive played once u group its gogogogo kill kill, get loot and leave group....not much down time for chat. The down time when gathering mana or resting is where the communication is key.
....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!
I truly hope EQnext brings this back....bring back content where we can raid not at max lvl, bring back content for 30+ players needed. I recall raiding to kill the AoW needing over 60 people when that content came out, which that took time it BUILT player relationships!
Unless you have a LFR feature, i doubt that would be very popular.
Thinking about the horror of waiting for 29 people to show up, and have to sync everyone schedule .. jsut to play a game.
I truly hope EQnext brings this back....bring back content where we can raid not at max lvl, bring back content for 30+ players needed. I recall raiding to kill the AoW needing over 60 people when that content came out, which that took time it BUILT player relationships!
Unless you have a LFR feature, i doubt that would be very popular.
Thinking about the horror of waiting for 29 people to show up, and have to sync everyone schedule .. jsut to play a game.
This required Guild/Alliance planning and with a slow-level progress system it'll be popular...
I truly hope EQnext brings this back....bring back content where we can raid not at max lvl, bring back content for 30+ players needed. I recall raiding to kill the AoW needing over 60 people when that content came out, which that took time it BUILT player relationships!
Unless you have a LFR feature, i doubt that would be very popular.
Thinking about the horror of waiting for 29 people to show up, and have to sync everyone schedule .. jsut to play a game.
Why 30+ players? Why not 25? We have games such as WoW that do 25 player raids. Is there something magical about 30+ or is it just a way to exclude WoW?
WoW also has 40 player World Bosses now...so your wish has been granted...
I'm finding it difficult to believe how many people in this thread claim they would prefer to just mindlessly grind mobs for xp instead of questing. Quests can be made up of combat/non-combat type of activities, vehicle type encounters, exploration, etc. Some may be quick...other may be long epic chains.
Basically, you are choosing one humungus kill 1 million rats quest to gain xp. Really? That's fun to you? I see people argue for it because they had fun socializing while farming the mobs...but can't people socialize while questing? I'm just really amazed at the preferece people are claiming...are you all botters?
You prefer going and talking to some guy that tells you to go kill 5 rats then come back so he can tell you to do it again?
MMO's don't give you quests to do, they give you errands. I'd rather grind mobs than play errand boy online for the umpteenth time.
I'm finding it difficult to believe how many people in this thread claim they would prefer to just mindlessly grind mobs for xp instead of questing. Quests can be made up of combat/non-combat type of activities, vehicle type encounters, exploration, etc. Some may be quick...other may be long epic chains.
Basically, you are choosing one humungus kill 1 million rats quest to gain xp. Really? That's fun to you? I see people argue for it because they had fun socializing while farming the mobs...but can't people socialize while questing? I'm just really amazed at the preferece people are claiming...are you all botters?
You prefer going and talking to some guy that tells you to go kill 5 rats then come back so he can tell you to do it again?
MMO's don't give you quests to do, they give you errands. I'd rather grind mobs than play errand boy online for the umpteenth time.
I'd rather save the poor farmer from the rat infesation that soon leads to a quest to eliminate the big bad evil in the sewers that drove the rats to the farm in the first place than to mindlessly kill rats for no other reast than xp for the unpteenth time.
You are saying doing quests are repetetive...but how is mob grinding not repetetitive?
Neither and both. The greater the variety of things to do while leveling, the less it seems to feel like a grind at all. You shouldn't just have to grind mobs. You shouldn't just have to quest. You shouldn't just have to do dungeons. There's so much room for puzzles, and platforming games, and pvp leveling, and lengthy group story missions, and lengthy quests with diverse progression goals (class specific armor, spells, ability upgrades, area unlocks, transportation unlocks, dungeon unlocks), and even major raids, all of which can take place during the leveling process.
Imagine a game that can once again be all about the journey. A game that's filled with such fun and diverse gameplay experiences during the leveling process that players never feel like they are grinding. Imagine actually wanting to stop at level 10 to participate in some lengthy group content because it contains not only imortant progression assets you'll need for the next set of levels, but also because it's a ton of fun. And imagine content at these level milestones remaining relevant to you as you attain even higher levels.
I'm finding it difficult to believe how many people in this thread claim they would prefer to just mindlessly grind mobs for xp instead of questing. Quests can be made up of combat/non-combat type of activities, vehicle type encounters, exploration, etc. Some may be quick...other may be long epic chains.
Basically, you are choosing one humungus kill 1 million rats quest to gain xp. Really? That's fun to you? I see people argue for it because they had fun socializing while farming the mobs...but can't people socialize while questing? I'm just really amazed at the preferece people are claiming...are you all botters?
You prefer going and talking to some guy that tells you to go kill 5 rats then come back so he can tell you to do it again?
MMO's don't give you quests to do, they give you errands. I'd rather grind mobs than play errand boy online for the umpteenth time.
I'd rather save the poor farmer from the rat infesation that soon leads to a quest to eliminate the big bad evil in the sewers that drove the rats to the farm in the first place than to mindlessly kill rats for no other reast than xp for the unpteenth time.
You are saying doing quests are repetetive...but how is mob grinding not repetetitive?
You are doing the same thing either way. The difference is I can spend my time killing the same rats the quest would tell me to go kill rather than having to keep going back and forth and getting the XP from the farmer.
I spent 10+ years playing UO, 5 years playing FFXI. I spend maybe 2-3 months tops in newer quest centric MMO's.
I'm all for a good story or well done quests, they certainly have their place in games. These generic "quests" that are nothing more than repeatable errands as the method to level is not the way quests need to be done for me.
You may not like killing mobs, thats fine. If you prefer running errands then by all means continue to do so. Just understand your prefference isn't the only way.
I like killing virtual stuff in a fantasy or scifi setting, I don't like running errands in any setting lol.
I dont think mobs vs quests is at the real heart of the problem, grind itself is, both could and should be designed to be fun. You shouldnt be doing errand quests, and you shouldn't be fighting mundain and boring battles.
There are dozens of games which showcase how repetatively battling in the same situation can be fun, and just as many which have great enjoyable quests sequences. What bothers me is that old MMOs felt it was ok to have mundane gameplay...
The social aspects may have been a byproduct of boring gameplay, but inventive gameplay can be made which is interesting even if it is low intensity. We are talking about RPGs here, if they make the automated combat attractive and entertaining... Well at least some may feel comfortable with it and enjoy socializing again.
Both quests and battling have there merits, both should be featured and semi optional. It's often possible to do both as well...
Beyond that, everybody needs to take their blinders off and stop making comparisons on the other based on their isolated experience and appreciate others preferance. Some subjects, especially ones on a forum about a variety of games, are conditional to preferance, and there are pros and cons for each.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.
I truly hope EQnext brings this back....bring back content where we can raid not at max lvl, bring back content for 30+ players needed. I recall raiding to kill the AoW needing over 60 people when that content came out, which that took time it BUILT player relationships!
Unless you have a LFR feature, i doubt that would be very popular.
Thinking about the horror of waiting for 29 people to show up, and have to sync everyone schedule .. jsut to play a game.
....again missing the point completely, not wait for some LFG tool......this is why guilds are formed!
....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!
I truly hope EQnext brings this back....bring back content where we can raid not at max lvl, bring back content for 30+ players needed. I recall raiding to kill the AoW needing over 60 people when that content came out, which that took time it BUILT player relationships!
Unless you have a LFR feature, i doubt that would be very popular.
Thinking about the horror of waiting for 29 people to show up, and have to sync everyone schedule .. jsut to play a game.
LFR is the worst thing ever invented. Why the hell would you add an LFR feature to a game like Everquest, it never had it and it never needed it.
You announce you're starting a raid, you start talking to people in the world, start making friends, start building your raid and you ENGAGE WITH OTHER HUMAN BEINGS.
EQ had pick-up raids every day on our server, you make the raids yourself, you learn who is who and build a community.
Yes it takes time, yes it takes organisation skill, yes it takes putting yourself out there and being vulnerable, it takes courage to lead 60 players you know nothing about, it takes getting to know them, it takes social skills and learning how to mediate during conflicts, it prepares you for real raiding. It make the community.
If you want LFR or automated grouping play WoW, where you let the game do the socialising for you and where the only thing that matters is your gearscore.
Originally posted by Verik97Mob grinding is definitely better imo. Quests should be epic and heroic feats, not helping Farmer Joe clear his field of rats or running errands for Guardsman Bob, who needs you to deliver a message to his girlfriend.
I think lowbie quests *shouldn't* be heroic as that's one of the things that makes them silly. I think they should mostly be mundane repeatable chores that fit in with the world like collecting food or killing vermin or delivering mail
Depends on the setting and class(or starting template, if classless) structure. If you start out as a civilian and level into an adventuring class/template later, then sure.
But otherwise: it's a bad bloody joke to have even a green warrior fresh out of basic training threshing wheat or delivering mail as a means of improving his combat skills (ie. gaining XP.)
On that note: quests shouldn't give XP at all. Reputation, money, gear or other such rewards, sure. But not XP.
I truly hope EQnext brings this back....bring back content where we can raid not at max lvl, bring back content for 30+ players needed. I recall raiding to kill the AoW needing over 60 people when that content came out, which that took time it BUILT player relationships!
Unless you have a LFR feature, i doubt that would be very popular.
Thinking about the horror of waiting for 29 people to show up, and have to sync everyone schedule .. jsut to play a game.
LFR is the worst thing ever invented. Why the hell would you add an LFR feature to a game like Everquest, it never had it and it never needed it.
You announce you're starting a raid, you start talking to people in the world, start making friends, start building your raid and you ENGAGE WITH OTHER HUMAN BEINGS.
EQ had pick-up raids every day on our server, you make the raids yourself, you learn who is who and build a community.
Yes it takes time, yes it takes organisation skill, yes it takes putting yourself out there and being vulnerable, it takes courage to lead 60 players you know nothing about, it takes getting to know them. It make the community.
I've found the more I 'get to know' raiders, the more I wish whatever game I was playing with them had effective outlets for griefing activitiies. Ideally, "gank and dry-loot."
I guess tastes will vary. But as far as I can see, LFR wasn't anything more than a catalyst for problems that were just waiting under the surface in the first place.
You announce you're starting a raid, you start talking to people in the world, start making friends, start building your raid and you ENGAGE WITH OTHER HUMAN BEINGS.
LOL .. people take 30 min talking without acheiving anything.
Count me out. I don't play games to just chat. LFR is popular. If not, Blizz won't spend the effort to make it into every content expansion.
Comments
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.
I played FFXI and though I hated the grinding gears of gameplay, I did recognize the value of being free to socialize and create greater relationships... But, I think your generalizing and assuming the reason for your lack of socializing inaccurately. The main reasons I had so much time to socialize in classic MMO gameplay was massive downtimes. Times spent LFG, times spent recovering, freedom of communication during combat, sadly, because the combat was so scripted and automated that I had freedom to shoot the breeze with players.
You could actually have a quest based exp system and still be social if the game retained those features, I imagine the real reason communication died wasn't questing for exp, but all the other optimizations that modern gameplay have added which cut out the basic lack of a game to actually participate in...
While I personally prefer an action oriented game, which unfortunately excludes freedom to chat, I can appreciate a hands off combat system which has automated gameplay simply for the sake of social opportunity, but only if it had enough programmable customization to your action and depth of tactical variation in order to at least force some decisions beyond the basic pattern mashing.
The idea of a less action packed, more programmed and macro oriented game doesn't sound thrilling in the least. But if done in the right context, like a game where you operate small trios of units individually, with gameplay immitating a more limited version of what is present in console games like FFXII and FFXIII, than players would have a definable reason to group up and battle in squads and let their personally programmed teams duke it out, vs mobs, or on quests, while having most of the freedom necessary to socialize as their little teams carve away at mobs.
It's horribly sad that this hasn't happened a long time ago, but I think misassociation of qualities in MMOs with the wrong source has lead to years of unsuccessfully attempting to immitate the appreciated qualities of classic entries.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.
I think lowbie quests *shouldn't* be heroic as that's one of the things that makes them silly. I think they should mostly be mundane repeatable chores that fit in with the world like collecting food or killing vermin or delivering mail but as you level yeah - they should be quests not chores and personally speaking, preferably take a long time and maybe only one at a time. If quests had companion slots with separate rewards for helping the quester for each stage of their quest then a player's long multi-stage quest might involve dozens of other players at different times over the course of it like EQ's epics.
Make mobs in high lvl in a true monster , not a rat.
Created a true monster can wipeout a party with a single mistake.
Make them worth to they power. 1 true monster = 1000 rat
"Kill one alway better than kill thousand"
2h to kill 1 boss and lvl up or 2h kill 1 million rat , what't better ?
Hard time to kill true monster , may be you will fail and lost all or go easy with 1million rat ?
We lack of choses now.
I myself don't like the idea quest xp grind , since quest's about enjoy and solve problem , not a grind tool. Can you enjoy quest when you have hurry to lvl up, they not even read what quest write , just click a hind and every thing solver . What kind of "quest" is it ?
There are certianly trade-offs with both, but I'd prefer mob grinds.
Mob grinds can get VERY monotinus very fast, but they also provide for the opportunity to socialize with guildies in guild chat or on Vent / Team Speak. With that said, if you like to keep to yourself and enjoy more of a solo experience, this will bore you to tears over a more interactive quest based system.
ALSO, mob farming lends itself to territory wars (if it's a PvP game). Big hairy brown bears drops a particular piece of gear or resource thats highly needed by crafters....then there is an opportunity for guilds or players to fight over those resources. This builds a whole other side of player generated content through in game rivalries, alliances, etc. (This was one of the strongest features of Lineage 2) These sort of MMO games are usually way more competitive than quest based systems that provide interuption free instances of each player's experience.
Mob.
Where's the poll????
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Why didn't I think of that. /facepalm
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
This question really pokes at the true issue today with MMO's in general. Everyone wants everything NOW! We feel we must rush till max lvl to just play,or have "end game" content.
Why not have leveling content??? oh wait EQ did that, there were zones, dungens as we leveled to keep us content. We were able to do EPIC quest for our weapons as we leveled.....this is where games fail now in my opinion, they focus everything after max lvl.
I truly hope EQnext brings this back....bring back content where we can raid not at max lvl, bring back content for 30+ players needed. I recall raiding to kill the AoW needing over 60 people when that content came out, which that took time it BUILT player relationships!
....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!
I'm finding it difficult to believe how many people in this thread claim they would prefer to just mindlessly grind mobs for xp instead of questing. Quests can be made up of combat/non-combat type of activities, vehicle type encounters, exploration, etc. Some may be quick...other may be long epic chains.
Basically, you are choosing one humungus kill 1 million rats quest to gain xp. Really? That's fun to you? I see people argue for it because they had fun socializing while farming the mobs...but can't people socialize while questing? I'm just really amazed at the preferece people are claiming...are you all botters?
I like both the quest and the mob 'grind'. As long as leveling doesn't go too fast. Or rather goes nice & slow. I don't want to kill 5 mobs or complete 2 quests and gain a level...
About the mob grind... Yeah, I've met lots of friends doing so in Lineage II back in the days. Awesome experience, both gaming and social. Good thing that Lineage II allowed chat & skill use at once (F- and ALT-keys for skills)...
About quest grind... Yeah, sadly, you won't stay long in one spot, but good thing that Vanguard (just to name that one again) has a very active global/continent chat to socialize in...
....I hear ya, I believe we can do quest and group up and communicate also but at least the games Ive played once u group its gogogogo kill kill, get loot and leave group....not much down time for chat. The down time when gathering mana or resting is where the communication is key.
....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!
Unless you have a LFR feature, i doubt that would be very popular.
Thinking about the horror of waiting for 29 people to show up, and have to sync everyone schedule .. jsut to play a game.
This required Guild/Alliance planning and with a slow-level progress system it'll be popular...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KQBzbTyjEA - 60+ man for a Lineage II raid. We did it bi-weekly and LOVED it each time.
Why 30+ players? Why not 25? We have games such as WoW that do 25 player raids. Is there something magical about 30+ or is it just a way to exclude WoW?
WoW also has 40 player World Bosses now...so your wish has been granted...
You prefer going and talking to some guy that tells you to go kill 5 rats then come back so he can tell you to do it again?
MMO's don't give you quests to do, they give you errands. I'd rather grind mobs than play errand boy online for the umpteenth time.
I'd rather save the poor farmer from the rat infesation that soon leads to a quest to eliminate the big bad evil in the sewers that drove the rats to the farm in the first place than to mindlessly kill rats for no other reast than xp for the unpteenth time.
You are saying doing quests are repetetive...but how is mob grinding not repetetitive?
Neither and both. The greater the variety of things to do while leveling, the less it seems to feel like a grind at all. You shouldn't just have to grind mobs. You shouldn't just have to quest. You shouldn't just have to do dungeons. There's so much room for puzzles, and platforming games, and pvp leveling, and lengthy group story missions, and lengthy quests with diverse progression goals (class specific armor, spells, ability upgrades, area unlocks, transportation unlocks, dungeon unlocks), and even major raids, all of which can take place during the leveling process.
Imagine a game that can once again be all about the journey. A game that's filled with such fun and diverse gameplay experiences during the leveling process that players never feel like they are grinding. Imagine actually wanting to stop at level 10 to participate in some lengthy group content because it contains not only imortant progression assets you'll need for the next set of levels, but also because it's a ton of fun. And imagine content at these level milestones remaining relevant to you as you attain even higher levels.
You are doing the same thing either way. The difference is I can spend my time killing the same rats the quest would tell me to go kill rather than having to keep going back and forth and getting the XP from the farmer.
I spent 10+ years playing UO, 5 years playing FFXI. I spend maybe 2-3 months tops in newer quest centric MMO's.
I'm all for a good story or well done quests, they certainly have their place in games. These generic "quests" that are nothing more than repeatable errands as the method to level is not the way quests need to be done for me.
You may not like killing mobs, thats fine. If you prefer running errands then by all means continue to do so. Just understand your prefference isn't the only way.
I like killing virtual stuff in a fantasy or scifi setting, I don't like running errands in any setting lol.
I dont think mobs vs quests is at the real heart of the problem, grind itself is, both could and should be designed to be fun. You shouldnt be doing errand quests, and you shouldn't be fighting mundain and boring battles.
There are dozens of games which showcase how repetatively battling in the same situation can be fun, and just as many which have great enjoyable quests sequences. What bothers me is that old MMOs felt it was ok to have mundane gameplay...
The social aspects may have been a byproduct of boring gameplay, but inventive gameplay can be made which is interesting even if it is low intensity. We are talking about RPGs here, if they make the automated combat attractive and entertaining... Well at least some may feel comfortable with it and enjoy socializing again.
Both quests and battling have there merits, both should be featured and semi optional. It's often possible to do both as well...
Beyond that, everybody needs to take their blinders off and stop making comparisons on the other based on their isolated experience and appreciate others preferance. Some subjects, especially ones on a forum about a variety of games, are conditional to preferance, and there are pros and cons for each.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.
....again missing the point completely, not wait for some LFG tool......this is why guilds are formed!
....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!
LFR is the worst thing ever invented. Why the hell would you add an LFR feature to a game like Everquest, it never had it and it never needed it.
You announce you're starting a raid, you start talking to people in the world, start making friends, start building your raid and you ENGAGE WITH OTHER HUMAN BEINGS.
EQ had pick-up raids every day on our server, you make the raids yourself, you learn who is who and build a community.
Yes it takes time, yes it takes organisation skill, yes it takes putting yourself out there and being vulnerable, it takes courage to lead 60 players you know nothing about, it takes getting to know them, it takes social skills and learning how to mediate during conflicts, it prepares you for real raiding. It make the community.
If you want LFR or automated grouping play WoW, where you let the game do the socialising for you and where the only thing that matters is your gearscore.
But otherwise: it's a bad bloody joke to have even a green warrior fresh out of basic training threshing wheat or delivering mail as a means of improving his combat skills (ie. gaining XP.)
On that note: quests shouldn't give XP at all. Reputation, money, gear or other such rewards, sure. But not XP.
I've found the more I 'get to know' raiders, the more I wish whatever game I was playing with them had effective outlets for griefing activitiies. Ideally, "gank and dry-loot."
I guess tastes will vary. But as far as I can see, LFR wasn't anything more than a catalyst for problems that were just waiting under the surface in the first place.
LOL .. people take 30 min talking without acheiving anything.
Count me out. I don't play games to just chat. LFR is popular. If not, Blizz won't spend the effort to make it into every content expansion.
Neither.
Time skill upgrade. If there must be XP, make it almost nothing for quest and mob grind. Have other system to earn. Be creative.