Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Themepark + Sandbox = Old School MMO
Abuz0r
Member UncommonPosts: 550
The problem isn't that there's 2 types of MMORPG, it's that MMO's separated and limited themselves into these divisions.
What happened to when you logged into a great big MMORPG world where you could choose what you wanted to do?
The world was enormous, and you could go anywhere, assuming you could survive the journey, beginning at level 1.
There were grocery list quests, if you wanted one.
There were walking and talking quests, if you wanted.
There was a story line set of quests, if you wanted.
If you want, you could just go grind.
There were monster pits of both similar and varying levels around the world. - For example, there may be pits with level 30 monsters in 6 different places in the world, one town offered a grocery list quest to kill them if you wanted, other places you could just hop in a pit and grind, hoping for some epic loot.
There were elite and group type monsters, that were hard to kill solo, but a group may farm efficiently and show good xp / loot for. There may also be a quest to farm them if you want it. There may be a story quest to work your way to the final boss of the dungeon, if you want.
Player housing? Sure why not, maybe, maybe not. Can destroy player houses? depends where you build. No rent in dangerous places, upkeep type tax rent to build in safe places like the city. - Players can still attack your house but guards will own them.
Don't want pvp or pk, don't want anyone to destroy your house? Sure go to the PvE server, not every server has to live by the same set of rules, that's why they're different planes of existence. Don't worry, you can still queue for an instances cross server battleground if you change your mind.
Instances? if you wan't, quests to go in the instances too. Play modes? why not? Group / solo instance? Sure why not just select what type of instance you want before entering.
Why do games and gamers want to categorize themself as one style and eliminate the other style? PvP / PvE, open world pvp or instanced only, sandbox or themepark.
The biggest problem I see with a themepark is that it is hard to make a sandbox out of it. While it's really easy to build a themepark inside a sandbox. Why can't companies offer a themepark route through their sandbox? Offer a few different playstyles to partake of depending on which server you join?
People act like it's impossible to please everyone, I don't agree. The limitations placed within the walls of the game are what displeases people, not what it offers.
Comments
You're leaving out a crucial part: social.
The world, mechanics and features of games like AC, UO, EVE Online and other older MMOs facilitated player interaction. They offered tools for smaller communities within the larger playerbase to form and, more importantly offered tools for them to interact with each other on a variety of levels. To name a few:
While many of these features had some problems of thier own (ohnoes! someone drew a peepee!), newer MMOs left them out rather than try to find solutions for them. This has broken one of the biggest ties between the themepark and sandbox content, as the social content is what made it easier for the people bringing resources into the game world(questors/gatherers) to connect with the people taking resources out of the game world (builders/destroyers). When two groups with little in common have less manners in which to interact, the split between the two groups grows wider.
This has led to futher divide as PvE has become more closely associated with themepark and PVP with sandbox, as if building a house is in any way scripted content or factions in any way creative content on its own.
Almost every MMO has both themepark and sandbox content. The older ones just had far more social content in the mix to bring it all together in a cohesive world environment.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
This was a sandbox vs themepark discussion not a social or crafting oriented post.
That's a different argument for a different day lol.
There's already a sticky thread for that.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
Finally someone with the courage to tackle this topic......
Older games were also filled with people who used the worlds to be part of a fantasy setting. Now mmos are mostly filled with people who see them as an amusment ride. You strap yourself in and the game entertains you.
generally speaking people don't seem to want the same things in these games anymore. They may talk about it on forums but when someone loads in it's all solo quest to get max lvl then raid/grind to max gear get bored and off to the next new mmo
I'd love to see a more modernized attept at an old style of game but I doubt the majorty of people who play them actually would. And when I saqy majorty I don't mean people who read or become involved on forums. I mean the actual majority of players ...the ones who never read forums or become involved in a games community at all.
This was your stance, accoridng to your original post:
The biggest problem I see with a themepark is that it is hard to make a sandbox out of it. While it's really easy to build a themepark inside a sandbox. Why can't companies offer a themepark route through their sandbox? Offer a few different playstyles to partake of depending on which server you join?
I was answering that by explaining that it can be done, and was done, by using social components to bind the other two together. I was also addressing your subject line of "Themepark + Sandbox = Old School MMO" which really should be "Themepark + Sandbox + Social = Old School MMO"
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Ops pretty much entire premise is crap. Games like Eq, things like instances, all came about from learning lessons from those things that came before. Uo slowly gained restrictions until it was no longer a sim because players repeatedly broke the game, not only in real ways, but for many many others too. Its why you get things like the server type split with trammel. Its why so many more restrictions were put in place going forward. If you do not believe me then listen to the developers! http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1016629/Classic-Game-Postmortem-Ultima
Things like instances were popularized by WoW entirely because of the playerbase whining insistantly about things like Fire of Heaven actively farming bosses that did not even benefit them any longer to eleminate any possible compition. Why set up those 2 am raids when that boss spawns when you are the only guild on the server who is keyed that can possibly kill it? Almost every single "feature" that so many on this forum whine about is here because of developers listening and learning from its playerbase. Look at the major stories that have rocked EvE, from the year long con jobs, to pyrimid schemes. There is a reason why EvE is nowhere near as popular as it could be.
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
It's not as popular because not everyone likes the same thing.
games are aiming at such niche markets that they can't keep enough customers to survive. They're trying to adapt with freemium or easier gameplay when they should go back to the open world and play style freedom solution.
People are sick of boundaries.
The market blatantly says that you are incorrect. This is why you should stop taking impressions from forums.
I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.
To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.
The "market" hasn't asked me or the other two gamers in my household, or the majority of our friends, we all in fact agree with the OP. Minority we may be, but then with no way to prove it we'll never know(with a mmorpg in a setting we prefer, NOT sci-fi, I would have thought TR would have shown that not everyone was interested in space junkets and ugh fpv?? no thanks, not even by one of the creators of one of the grandfathers of mmorpgs with the ease of play that most have become accustomed to ie. WoW).
The market says we all want to play Farmville!
ThemePark's generally are: casual, linear, easy (easy to get to cap, next to no death penalty), often instanced, solo player focused.
Sandbox's generally are: hardcore, non-linear, hard (usually long time to get to cap and harsch death penalties), rarely if ever instaced, group focused.
Mixing them would not make much sense as they are designed using two different philosophies and aiming for different customer groups. So no, you should not mix the two as you can't please everyone.
Problem we have now is that almost all big budget MMOs are ThemeParks and almost all sandbox MMOs are under-funded indy games. That needs to balance out somehow.
My gaming blog
There is already a stickied thread for discussing Sandbox and Themepark games. You can find it here: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/317478/Sandbox-vs-Themepark-Discussion-Thread.html
Please keep al further discussion there.