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Originally posted by zspawn I agree with what most of the older players like cause partly that's the reason I got into the genre. I didn't quite find it since I joined around 2004 but I found something I can enjoy myself. If i stop doing that, I'll move on. If there was such huge demand for a game like a lot of people want here, they'd make one..
That is really not how things work, companies makes games their investors think will sell, not what players actually want and many players thinks they want something they might not want at all.
Most investors only looks on what have done well in the past (in MMOs case Wow) and fund something similar.
Minecraft is doing really great and yet no company really made anything like that until a guy who was bored made it for fun and already became a millionaire during beta.
There are certainly many other ways of doing great MMOs with huge customer potential, the problem is just figuring out exactly what those ways are and few investors are even interested of trying.
Jeff Strain asked all publishers and investors he could find about funding for "class 4" and everyone asked if he couldnt made something more like Wow instead. Finally he asked Microsoft and the only thing they checked was that he have made 3 of the 20 best selling PC games of all time before coughing up funds, it is rather sad when Microsoft is the only MMO company willing to invest in something different then what everyone else is doing no matter how good the credentials of the dev is.
It is kinda like asking a classic composer if he cant sound more like Lady Gaga.
Originally posted by mcool The negativity on the forums is staggering. It seems to me that the posts that gets that get the most responses are the ones where the gaming industry or the players are being criticized.
drama invites popcorn munching - nothing new there
Kickstarter: Stuff I'm supporting
Originally posted by azzamasin Originally posted by mcool -snip-
I have plenty of positives to say and I spend most of my forum time defending my soon to be released MMO's (Neverwinter & Elder Scrolls Online) and my current game of choice (GW2). Almost every one of my7 posts are talking of the virtues and goodness of one of those three MMO's.
I was about to reply OP when I saw your reply. It is excellent to say positive things, especially on games one like. The thing is, the way it is phrased as "defending", sounds very confrontational, as though it is expected that haters will attack that game 24/7 (though it does happen).
The problem arises after this, is when real, valid criticisms are given, the mindset will be so engrossed in "defending" one's game that every opinion that does not match one's own will be considered as an "attack", resulting in sarcastic remarks, strawman arguments, or just out right insults. Valid criticisms' OP will get upset/unhappy/angry and "attacks" back. This results in negative "mudslinging", which goes to square one, as per OP stated.
As for OP and like minded, whether where the gaming industry goes to, my suggestion to all is just relax and read the threads. Anywhere there is a chance to promote positive attitude, just reply with an open-minded mindset, and talk strictly on the game only. Getting emotional will only result in personal attacks and negativity will spin out of control. (I actually log in today after 5 years of creating an account to just report a provocative titled thread that became a flamefest.)
The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.
Originally posted by mcool The negativity on the forums is staggering.
I am assured, several times a year, that forum negativity is not contagious.
Available evidence tends to suggest otherwise. :shrug:
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
guild wars 2, WOW and TERA are much than swg,everquest and ultima online. take off your nostalgia tinted glasses and be happy, we are moving in the right direction but it will take time"
The old games tried to do a *lot* of different things and didn't succeed at getting most of them perfect, or even close.
The new games don't try to do most of those things.
Although there's some truth in the nostalgia argument it misses out specific things people like(d) about earlier games which got dropped by the wayside.
- EQ had a complex faction system which locked / unlocked content, quests etc and if you wanted you could create myriad paths for yourself through the game by picking your faction and only doing stuff that raised faction with them or their allies or the allies of their allies etc. It had a lot of implementation flaws but the basic idea is very good for people who like the idea of playing a role in the game world.
- EQ has some racial / religion based crafting so if you're a troll blacksmith there's some things you can make which a human blacksmith can't. I'd take it a lot further than EQ did and as well as having race / religion specific crafting i'd have racial forms of the standard crafting (i.e. orc version of standard leather, elf version of standard leather etc) which other races could learn and where learning multiple versions allowed hybrid recipes and also regional crafting, like food, with recipes specific to the flora and fauna of the region etc blah blah but although EQ's implementation only hinted at my ideal system no-one since has gone down that path and improved on it.
- SWG had predator mobs and prey mobs that moved around and were hostile to each other so you could sit in your little hunter camp and chill out watching dinosaurs fight and then go hunt a dinosaur and make some new boots and dinner out of it. Again their implementation of that kind of simple ecosystem stuff wasn't perfect but most games don't have any of that.
Three specific examples of things i spent most of my time doing in older games.
The newer games have tried to perfect and polish the levelling part of the game and have succeeded to some extent but most of the grumpy older players will have a list of things they used to spend their time doing which they can't do in the newer games.
Originally posted by asmkm22 Originally posted by dynamicipftw Should we just stay silent despite modern MMOs getting worse every year?
I think we've stopped getting MMO releases entirely now. The industry has been moving to essentiall create browser games with better graphics, without the browser. They want fairly shallow gameplay that can appeal to the widest range of consumers, sort of like what Budweiser does.
This. It's becoming a tried approach, all about the money.
To say something positive though
I think it's encouraging that some PvP games like Age of Wushu are starting to make the PvE parts of their game more "worldy." I guess it's because the combat part of the game is focused on PvP they don't have to spend time trying to make the PvE combat entertaining so their PvE content revolves more around non-combat activities. A game like Wushu doesn't have the advantage of a fantasy world where you can have tropical forests with lizard men next door to an ancient egyptian zone ruled by snakemen but apart from that i find running around in their world doing whatever suits my mood at the time is pretty cool.
Originally posted by mcool Cheer up guys, the gaming industry isn't that bad. We have seen major improvements over the years.
What improvements? I've seen the graphics bar raised, but that's about it.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Because devs don't listen to your praise, they listen to your complaints.
If they want to know if they are doing well by you, they will count the currencyvotes you give them.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
Originally posted by XAPKen Originally posted by mcool Cheer up guys, the gaming industry isn't that bad. We have seen major improvements over the years.
I think the actual gameplay has gotten a lot better overall. Raid encounters tend to be more interesting, if not quite as difficult. The story driven aspect has gotten better (whether or not you want it there is another thing altogether). The UIs have improved dramatically. The quality of PvP has improved a lot in my opinion. They made the social experience much more accessable overall.
One thing that's gotten a bit worse in some cases is the overall variety of mundane activities that used to exist. Perhaps character customization has gotten worse in favor of some semblance of balance.
Ya i do...buy,support what ever ,just give your money to Archeage,it is the one game in a VERY long time that will deserve it.
All games since my beloved FFXi and EQ2 and even Wow if you like cheap graphics,has been extremely cheap sub par efforts.
Archeage is not even sending out lame videos like other games ...ahem GW2,telling us the gamer,what we should like or not like,they are just giving us videos to watch and let us decide for ourselves.They have taken and used tons of feedback,their betas have been going on over a year...lol and with NO pre order gimmicks.
You will also not see Jake Song make constant excuses,instead constant betas and updates,unlike other games that run a quick beta to support pre orders,then game launches no matter what.
Yep Jake Song and the Archeage team,have earned respect and deserve to be supported.Even if you don't think it is your cup of tea,support the game,i did just that with Fallen Earth ,back in the day,just becuase i liked the attitude of the team.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Originally posted by Velocinox Because devs don't listen to your praise, they listen to your complaints. If they want to know if they are doing well by you, they will count the currencyvotes you give them.
I think that's true and a big part of the problem. They know specifically what *some* people dislike but they don't know what other people specifically *like* and sometimes they're the same thing so they need to know how many there are on each side or they can get rid of something 2/3 of their players are happy with to please 1/3 who aren't.
What they ought to do is have two permanent forum threads saying
- what are the 3 things you most *like* about the game
- what are the 3 things you most *dislike* in the game
No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin
Originally posted by Velocinox Because devs don't listen to your praise, they listen to your complaints.
The "drama" explanation strikes me as far more likely, given how much of the gamer base has never even met a dev, let alone logged his hours in order to understand what his is or is not reading. Did you know there are several working devs (and god knows how many ex-devs) actively participating on this message board?
Does that really sound like *they* (the Evil Ones They) don't hear any of this constant QQ? Lord knows actual compliments from gamers are as rare as snow in July.
Drama, on the other hand: oh, if you wave your arms and shout loudly enough, hundreds of other gamers will offer up their 'me toos' and you will be pop-pop-popular! What fun!
Oh i have lots of positive things to say:
1) MMOs are more like games .. more friendly to busy schedules.
2) There are lots of innvoation, taking MMO ideas and combine them with other genre. LOL, WOT, D3 (and other ARPGs) .... Destiny is coming up .. a game i will watch for.
3) The trend of F2P. Lots of competition, and lots of free games to play. No need to commit to anything.
4) THere are many settings to choose from .. from ancient China martial arts to Star Trek.
6) Social is no longer restricted to a single game or single server. I can have my friend list and talk to someone playing WOW while i am playing D3.
7) Combat and progression mechanics are getting more fun from D3 almost endless combo of skills, to the complex path diagram of PoE, to PS2's twitch FPS combat.
8) Lots of indie gaming going on.
It is a good time, for me, as a gamer. In fact, gaming is getting to be more dominant as my hobby (compared to anime, movies, reading, and a few other things).
I was just about to say something positive.
But then i noticed that for years i'm being lied to by studios, devs, PR monkeys and suits who flooded the market with shallow clones in order to get a piece of Blizzard's cake.
I wondered if they either have a totally different idea of what innovation, evolution, dynamic, next-gen etc. means on today's market, or if they flat out try to scam me and catch my money with PR drivel and buzzwords, forgetting about their promises and me as a customer within 6 month of their titles' initial release.
I went with the latter, which left me with nothing much positive to say.
Originally posted by mcool guild wars 2, WOW and TERA are much than swg,everquest and ultima online. take off your nostalgia tinted glasses and be happy, we are moving in the right direction but it will take time
Why is it that if I like an old game I'm being nostalgic? Nobody ever accuses the people who like new games of being bandwagon lemmings. You also never hear anyone being accused of nostalgia for liking an old movie. The Godfather is still rated one of the best movies of all time and its 40 years old. What is it about video games?
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.-- Herman Melville
Originally posted by apocoluster Lunch was great
I agree. The new deli near my job makes great heroes.
Concentrate on enjoying yourself, and not on why I shouldn't enjoy myself.
well, I would better let OP starting to tell positive, but seems he is just wonder anout our though.
good news everyone and OP:
1. we have some fun MMO,2. some of these are FREE!3. we have large choice of them so we can change often!
hope I made your day! =XD
try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2
People saying NEGATIVE things are actually good.
See my signature article to find out why.
Gdemami -Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Originally posted by dynamicipftw Should we just stay silent despite modern MMOs getting worse every year?
Many posters should take that advice.
I tend to use this advice I read years ago.
"If you don't have anything positive to add to the discussion then don't post" it's always prevented me from posting in moments of frustration when anything I would put down would be totally unfocused, biased and basically a rant, there is no need for it, it's pointless and it gets lost in the other crap thats making up the thread.
I wholeheartedly agree with the OP, in general the threads are negative, just like Newspapers bad news sells much better than good news, bad gets more hits over good any day of the week, it's unfortunate but thats how it is and how it will remains unless you educate yourself in why your creating a thread and responding.
Originally posted by Plastic-Metal I'll say something positive: I am positive that Camelot Unchained will be an incredible game.
...maybe in 2017 or so.....or it will flop like SwToR........time will tell.
....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!