Well, despite all the nay sayers, I can't wait to play this game. I will absolutely be making at least 1 character in each realm, and FULLY EXPLORE the whole world (even though according to some you can't.)
The player can explore the entire world, the character cannot. BIG difference.
I guess you have to be able to do everything from one character for the game to be any good? because all mmo players only ever make 1 character right? :P
People are being forced to create more then 1 character to see the world. It isn't an option or a choice. Seeing as how they are selling the game with the tagline "explore all of Tamriel at last" you can hopefully understand why people call bullshit.
here's the thing, in every MMO i have ever played where you could go to the enemy territory, people very very rarely did it unless it was to pvp.
There is a gentelmans agreement during the war for Tamriel that the fighting only takes place in Cyrodil. Laughable lore and system mechanic but there you go.
If they didn't force faction choice onto you are character creation and didn't race lock you as well then you wouldn't have an 'enemy' anywhere. It wouldn't be the 'enemy territory' till you had chosen a side. Their design is what is fucked, not peoples desire to explore the world.
did you see a lot of people traveling to the other faction territories in wow just to explore?
I did. very rearely got engaged in any PvP in WOW. I watched fights sometimes but seeing as I was not 'part' or the fight I didn't feel the need to engage.
If TESO have the same world design as WOW it could work in a similar way. Outside Cyrodil you cannot PvP unless you have delaired for a faction. If you have declaired then enemy faction lands would be hostile. Till you do though you can explore and enjoy the game free of the PvP if you so wish. But their design fucked that up.
i can understand the racial lock and lack of complete open pvp concerns.
but the people that are acting like the fact you cant explore everywhere with the same character in a pve only world is a game breaker and will make this game fail, i assure you they are in the very very vast minority and it will not be a game breaker for most.
I guess we will see upon launch. But if you pay attention to TES sites you would know the general concensus of opinion. It isn't small enough that it should be ignore though in my opinion.
i think the racial lock is much more of an issue because it forces entire guilds to be the same three races if they want to all play together.
might not be a game breaker, especially for a solo player or maybe just a few friends starting off.
but for large guilds i can see it possibly being an issue for sure.
I agree, my own person dislike of their design aside, the main problem I see is with friends and guilds playing together. I know of many people who have posted the exact same problem. How does a guild, especially a large one choose a faction? Personally I might play a Breton, Orc or nord. Other races never have and never will interest me. So if a guild is recruiting for the AD I cannot join them.
I know a lot of people that are being faced with either rolling a race they don't like or not joining their guild....not a good design imo.
another thing is, if you judge mmo's by their longevity in numbers like so many do, then hell yes this game is going to fail along with every other mmo from here on out until one comes a long that is just so much better than everything else, that there is no other options but to play that game for years.
Well i believe TESO 'could' have been a huge game if they did it right. I believe they have done it wrong and so think it won't do as well as i thoink it could have.
that is what killed SWTOR and games like it more than anything.
too many options out there and i also think people are getting sick of mmo's in general.
when i say people, i mean the people that were drawn in when wow came out.
JMO
there were people playing MMO's long before WOW. I think you will find the post WOW generations are willing to accept crappy games because they haven't had the experience of how things were more open and creative before WOW. WOW did a lot good but it is far outweighed by the problems it has caused in the MMO industry.
Well, despite all the nay sayers, I can't wait to play this game. I will absolutely be making at least 1 character in each realm, and FULLY EXPLORE the whole world (even though according to some you can't.)
The player can explore the entire world, the character cannot. BIG difference.
I guess you have to be able to do everything from one character for the game to be any good? because all mmo players only ever make 1 character right? :P
People are being forced to create more then 1 character to see the world. It isn't an option or a choice. Seeing as how they are selling the game with the tagline "explore all of Tamriel at last" you can hopefully understand why people call bullshit.
Thats your play style thats restricting you from fully exploring the game. Not the actual game.
here's the thing, in every MMO i have ever played where you could go to the enemy territory, people very very rarely did it unless it was to pvp.
There is a gentelmans agreement during the war for Tamriel that the fighting only takes place in Cyrodil. Laughable lore and system mechanic but there you go.
If they didn't force faction choice onto you are character creation and didn't race lock you as well then you wouldn't have an 'enemy' anywhere. It wouldn't be the 'enemy territory' till you had chosen a side. Their design is what is fucked, not peoples desire to explore the world.
did you see a lot of people traveling to the other faction territories in wow just to explore?
I did. very rearely got engaged in any PvP in WOW. I watched fights sometimes but seeing as I was not 'part' or the fight I didn't feel the need to engage.
If TESO have the same world design as WOW it could work in a similar way. Outside Cyrodil you cannot PvP unless you have delaired for a faction. If you have declaired then enemy faction lands would be hostile. Till you do though you can explore and enjoy the game free of the PvP if you so wish. But their design fucked that up.
i can understand the racial lock and lack of complete open pvp concerns.
but the people that are acting like the fact you cant explore everywhere with the same character in a pve only world is a game breaker and will make this game fail, i assure you they are in the very very vast minority and it will not be a game breaker for most.
I guess we will see upon launch. But if you pay attention to TES sites you would know the general concensus of opinion. It isn't small enough that it should be ignore though in my opinion.
i think the racial lock is much more of an issue because it forces entire guilds to be the same three races if they want to all play together.
might not be a game breaker, especially for a solo player or maybe just a few friends starting off.
but for large guilds i can see it possibly being an issue for sure.
I agree, my own person dislike of their design aside, the main problem I see is with friends and guilds playing together. I know of many people who have posted the exact same problem. How does a guild, especially a large one choose a faction? Personally I might play a Breton, Orc or nord. Other races never have and never will interest me. So if a guild is recruiting for the AD I cannot join them.
I know a lot of people that are being faced with either rolling a race they don't like or not joining their guild....not a good design imo.
another thing is, if you judge mmo's by their longevity in numbers like so many do, then hell yes this game is going to fail along with every other mmo from here on out until one comes a long that is just so much better than everything else, that there is no other options but to play that game for years.
Well i believe TESO 'could' have been a huge game if they did it right. I believe they have done it wrong and so think it won't do as well as i thoink it could have.
that is what killed SWTOR and games like it more than anything.
too many options out there and i also think people are getting sick of mmo's in general.
when i say people, i mean the people that were drawn in when wow came out.
JMO
there were people playing MMO's long before WOW. I think you will find the post WOW generations are willing to accept crappy games because they haven't had the experience of how things were more open and creative before WOW. WOW did a lot good but it is far outweighed by the problems it has caused in the MMO industry.
and I believe your opinions are invalid because they are based on nothing of any significance but petty arguments and biased gameplay. Obviously this isn't your game and as such to continue to harp on things that will never change nor should do so is somethign that confounds my sensibilities. Maybe one day you might get it but then again you could be complainign about the same non-issues from here to eternity and hardly anyone will care, especially once the vast majority find the game amazing.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
and I believe your opinions are invalid because they are based on nothing of any significance but petty arguments and biased gameplay. Obviously this isn't your game and as such to continue to harp on things that will never change nor should do so is somethign that confounds my sensibilities. Maybe one day you might get it but then again you could be complainign about the same non-issues from here to eternity and hardly anyone will care, especially once the vast majority find the game amazing.
So in summary....
You have no argument to offer so will instead attack the person.
and I believe your opinions are invalid because they are based on nothing of any significance but petty arguments and biased gameplay. Obviously this isn't your game and as such to continue to harp on things that will never change nor should do so is somethign that confounds my sensibilities. Maybe one day you might get it but then again you could be complainign about the same non-issues from here to eternity and hardly anyone will care, especially once the vast majority find the game amazing.
So in summary....
You have no argument to offer so will instead attack the person.
A common policy on these forums alas...
When will they learn to attack the opinion and not the one holding it - one wonders...
I thought seamless meant no transition loading (or blank) screens? In which case both Oblivion and Skryim are NOT seamless.
Maybe I'm wrong about what is considered seemless but to me it sounds to me like this request is to make it truly an open world, rather than limiting access to your zone and PvP zones only....
No.
Seamless is main world meaning no zones you transition into. It can have 1000000000 dungeons that you transition into and still have a seamless world.
Its like the PvP argument that anyone that doesnt want closed off PvP zones must want FFA...open world PvP does not mean FFA PvP, it means being able to flag for PvP ANYWHERE YOU WANT.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Originally posted by evilastro We should start a petition against silly petitions that will have no impact on the outcome of game development.
I'd sign that one.
I'm not fond of the direction TESO wend on the whole faction front myself and I'd be happy to argue about it from a hypoethical standpoint, but y'know what? It's too bloody late for that now.
Changing it at this stage of the development could only be a hack-job at best (unless they wanted to put it off for another 2-3 years cleaning it up) and that would be even worse for the game.
Originally posted by evilastro We should start a petition against silly petitions that will have no impact on the outcome of game development.
I'd sign that one.
I'm not fond of the direction TESO wend on the whole faction front myself and I'd be happy to argue about it from a hypoethical standpoint, but y'know what? It's too bloody late for that now.
Changing it at this stage of the development could only be a hack-job at best (unless they wanted to put it off for another 2-3 years cleaning it up) and that would be even worse for the game.
That's the fault of Zenimax - late to share, and don't really care...
There is now a petition for TESO up, it includes a couple of sources, some concerns around the topic of the segregated regions of the map in Tamriel. In an interview Matt Firor stated that you will not be able to enter the enemy's territory unless it is in Cyrodiil's PvP Zone.
Anyhow, You can read more about it at the petition site linked below. Please support this cause and help us get what we want.
Why would you want to explore the enemy faction's pve (lvling) areas? Truth is you probably just want to grief lowbies xping. Lets have a petition to stop dumb ideas like the OP's.
"I'm sorry but your mmo has been diagnosed with EA and only has X number of days to live."
Why would you want to explore the enemy faction's pve (lvling) areas? Truth is you probably just want to grief lowbies xping. Lets have a petition to stop dumb ideas like the OP's.
"Why would you want to explore" The answer is in the question, come on, engage that brain cell!
How can you grief lowbies anyway, outside Cyrodil everyone is friends, don't fight, never cross the street, interfere with supply lines, never spy on troop movements, never step foot into their enemies land, never cross the borders to trade, never visit relatives who don't live in the same region, never get the urge to visit some far off pilgramage site, never wonder if there really are that many stepps leading up to the throat of the world, never wonder if you can see the volcano from the swaps, never wonder just whay Summerset Isle looks like...they don't even accidentally fire an arrow into enemy territory while out hunting.
So yeah, it is all about killing noobs and has nothing to do with, oh I don't know....exploring perhaps!
Why would you want to explore the enemy faction's pve (lvling) areas? Truth is you probably just want to grief lowbies xping. Lets have a petition to stop dumb ideas like the OP's.
"Why would you want to explore" The answer is in the question, come on, engage that brain cell!
How can you grief lowbies anyway, outside Cyrodil everyone is friends, don't fight, never cross the street, interfere with supply lines, never spy on troop movements, never step foot into their enemies land, never cross the borders to trade, never visit relatives who don't live in the same region, never get the urge to visit some far off pilgramage site, never wonder if there really are that many stepps leading up to the throat of the world, never wonder if you can see the volcano from the swaps, never wonder just whay Summerset Isle looks like...they don't even accidentally fire an arrow into enemy territory while out hunting.
So yeah, it is all about killing noobs and has nothing to do with, oh I don't know....exploring perhaps!
Use my entire sentence next time. Everyone being friends in pve-ville is lame as hell. Why do you get such a E-bonnar exploring pve areas anyway? You do know each realm gets their own pve zones and you can "explore" their pvp zones in the ORvR zone dduuhhhh.
"I'm sorry but your mmo has been diagnosed with EA and only has X number of days to live."
The thing is ESO will be using this megaserver technology (1 giant server). How can you segregate PvP and PvE? Could of worked if you had multiple servers.
TBH I didn't watch the youtube video, however I'm guessing it's from the PoV of a PvP'er.
They will be making one area(Cyrodiil) of itself for PvP, much like GW2's WvWvW, however I would prefer it if you wandered into someone elses territory, except Cyrodiil, that they'd be able to attacked you. (However, flagging themselves for PvP as well, allowing you to attack them as well.)
Edit: Fair point however, the megaserver might require them to remove that kind of PvP and cater to the PvP:ers among us by adding a designated PvP Area.
As long as I have the option to PvP or not I don't see the problem. You mentioned from the PoV of a RP'r as well. Won't it be a immersion breaker when you can't PvP with someone in enemy territory.?
I'll just go to Cyrodiil for My PvP fix.
Like mentioned earlier, this is not going to be implemented at this stage.
What you say is true, but I doubt that it would be very fun if you were leveling up and suddenly someone just killed and camped you, so it would kind of have to be some degree of restriction. But aye, Fair point.
I have played games where that was ramped..i hate to agree with you its not fun when its being done to you but it is alot of fun doing it to other players. but for me its realistic and it was an awesome way to start guild wars and things like that.
Games I will be playing are: TES V, SWTOR, ME 3, TSW
Why would you want to explore the enemy faction's pve (lvling) areas? Truth is you probably just want to grief lowbies xping. Lets have a petition to stop dumb ideas like the OP's.
"Why would you want to explore" The answer is in the question, come on, engage that brain cell!
How can you grief lowbies anyway, outside Cyrodil everyone is friends, don't fight, never cross the street, interfere with supply lines, never spy on troop movements, never step foot into their enemies land, never cross the borders to trade, never visit relatives who don't live in the same region, never get the urge to visit some far off pilgramage site, never wonder if there really are that many stepps leading up to the throat of the world, never wonder if you can see the volcano from the swaps, never wonder just whay Summerset Isle looks like...they don't even accidentally fire an arrow into enemy territory while out hunting.
So yeah, it is all about killing noobs and has nothing to do with, oh I don't know....exploring perhaps!
Use my entire sentence next time. Everyone being friends in pve-ville is lame as hell. Why do you get such a E-bonnar exploring pve areas anyway? You do know each realm gets their own pve zones and you can "explore" their pvp zones in the ORvR zone dduuhhhh.
Again they dont get the scope of what they are asking for. Quest, VO story and maybe even dungeons are designed for that faction. Make the game generic and everyone can go everywhere and you need to make a new game. This idea is a fail as it would cost millions of bucks and remove 6 years of the devs work. New quest would need to be made. Send the actors back to the studio to redo the story. Back to alpha testing the new quests. LOL fools idea that cant grasp what the current game design is and how awesome having an area for your faction that drives the story in a way that makes faction pride.
EDIT: Even the OP has stopped posting in this thread. My guess he sees the scope of what he is asking for adn seen the folly.
Why would you want to explore the enemy faction's pve (lvling) areas? Truth is you probably just want to grief lowbies xping. Lets have a petition to stop dumb ideas like the OP's.
"Why would you want to explore" The answer is in the question, come on, engage that brain cell!
How can you grief lowbies anyway, outside Cyrodil everyone is friends, don't fight, never cross the street, interfere with supply lines, never spy on troop movements, never step foot into their enemies land, never cross the borders to trade, never visit relatives who don't live in the same region, never get the urge to visit some far off pilgramage site, never wonder if there really are that many stepps leading up to the throat of the world, never wonder if you can see the volcano from the swaps, never wonder just whay Summerset Isle looks like...they don't even accidentally fire an arrow into enemy territory while out hunting.
So yeah, it is all about killing noobs and has nothing to do with, oh I don't know....exploring perhaps!
Use my entire sentence next time. Everyone being friends in pve-ville is lame as hell. Why do you get such a E-bonnar exploring pve areas anyway? You do know each realm gets their own pve zones and you can "explore" their pvp zones in the ORvR zone dduuhhhh.
Again they dont get the scope of what they are asking for. Quest, VO story and maybe even dungeons are designed for that faction. Make the game generic and everyone can go everywhere and you need to make a new game. This idea is a fail as it would cost millions of bucks and remove 6 years of the devs work. New quest would need to be made. Send the actors back to the studio to redo the story. Back to alpha testing the new quests. LOL fools idea that cant grasp what the current game design is and how awesome having an area for your faction that drives the story in a way that makes faction pride.
EDIT: Even the OP has stopped posting in this thread. My guess he sees the scope of what he is asking for adn seen the folly.
well stated ...well stated. it is to late but i am excited for the game cant wait to see how it turns out.
Games I will be playing are: TES V, SWTOR, ME 3, TSW
Again they dont get the scope of what they are asking for. Quest, VO story and maybe even dungeons are designed for that faction. Make the game generic and everyone can go everywhere and you need to make a new game.
EDIT: Even the OP has stopped posting in this thread. My guess he sees the scope of what he is asking for adn seen the folly.
Ok, but again, this isn't hard to solve. Not saying they should do it one way or another (though I'm a fan of a whole unfettered world) but just add a line for every npc that "There's a war on, we dont' speak to your kind".
end of problem. It's contrived but it does solve the quest part while leaving the world part open.
as far as the last part, I think that's reading into it too much. Maybe he's just sick of the discussion. Doesn't mean he sees any "folly".
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Again they dont get the scope of what they are asking for. Quest, VO story and maybe even dungeons are designed for that faction. Make the game generic and everyone can go everywhere and you need to make a new game.
EDIT: Even the OP has stopped posting in this thread. My guess he sees the scope of what he is asking for adn seen the folly.
Ok, but again, this isn't hard to solve. Not saying they should do it one way or another (though I'm a fan of a whole unfettered world) but just add a line for every npc that "There's a war on, we dont' speak to your kind".
end of problem. It's contrived but it does solve the quest part while leaving the world part open.
as far as the last part, I think that's reading into it too much. Maybe he's just sick of the discussion. Doesn't mean he sees any "folly".
Ok, so you get to wonder around a factions map and cant quest, what are you there for? Attack lowbes and look around? Forget about the immersion breaking you are doing. Having a Darkelf show up as I am killing darkelve NPCs that are attacking my village in a quest. You there to watch and dance with the guy? Or to kill him? One break immersion the other makes it so people who are TES pure PvE fans dont get their play space. See the problem with your idea?
Again they dont get the scope of what they are asking for. Quest, VO story and maybe even dungeons are designed for that faction. Make the game generic and everyone can go everywhere and you need to make a new game.
EDIT: Even the OP has stopped posting in this thread. My guess he sees the scope of what he is asking for adn seen the folly.
Ok, but again, this isn't hard to solve. Not saying they should do it one way or another (though I'm a fan of a whole unfettered world) but just add a line for every npc that "There's a war on, we dont' speak to your kind".
end of problem. It's contrived but it does solve the quest part while leaving the world part open.
as far as the last part, I think that's reading into it too much. Maybe he's just sick of the discussion. Doesn't mean he sees any "folly".
Ok, so you get to wonder around a factions map and cant quest, what are you there for? Attack lowbes and look around? Forget about the immersion breaking you are doing. Having a Darkelf show up as I am killing darkelve NPCs that are attacking my village in a quest. You there to watch and dance with the guy? Or to kill him? One break immersion the other makes it so people who are TES pure PvE fans dont get their play space. See the problem with your idea?
Wait a minute! So in a more "open explorable world with no locks" you think its immersion breaking to have a Darkelf PC show up as you are doing a quest to kill DE NPCs in YOUR Factions area?
How is that any more immersion breaking than in the way ESO is now with the Faction locks in place. If there are Race/Faction locked zones, how could you possibly be killing Darkelf NPCs when Darkelfs arent supposed to even be able to enter your Faction area because of the lock?
So what, the Race/Faction lock only applies to Player Characters? NPCs are exempt?
Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.
Again they dont get the scope of what they are asking for. Quest, VO story and maybe even dungeons are designed for that faction. Make the game generic and everyone can go everywhere and you need to make a new game.
EDIT: Even the OP has stopped posting in this thread. My guess he sees the scope of what he is asking for adn seen the folly.
Ok, but again, this isn't hard to solve. Not saying they should do it one way or another (though I'm a fan of a whole unfettered world) but just add a line for every npc that "There's a war on, we dont' speak to your kind".
end of problem. It's contrived but it does solve the quest part while leaving the world part open.
as far as the last part, I think that's reading into it too much. Maybe he's just sick of the discussion. Doesn't mean he sees any "folly".
Ok, so you get to wonder around a factions map and cant quest, what are you there for? Attack lowbes and look around? Forget about the immersion breaking you are doing. Having a Darkelf show up as I am killing darkelve NPCs that are attacking my village in a quest. You there to watch and dance with the guy? Or to kill him? One break immersion the other makes it so people who are TES pure PvE fans dont get their play space. See the problem with your idea?
Wait a minute! So in a more "open explorable world with no locks" you think its immersion breaking to have a Darkelf PC show up as you are doing a quest to kill DE NPCs in YOUR Factions area?
How is that any more immersion breaking than in the way ESO is now with the Faction locks in place. If there are Race/Faction locked zones, how could you possibly be killing Darkelf NPCs when Darkelfs arent supposed to even be able to enter your Faction area because of the lock?
So what, the Race/Faction lock only applies to Player Characters? NPCs are exempt?
If you can go anywhere and not flag or attack players then you are breaking immersion. As darkelf I cant attack. Great now he is blowing me emote kisses and dancing with me. Thats the crap that will happen if its open world no PvP. If its a flag system or just everyone is flagged now its not immersion as the problem. Its the TES fans who just like PvE lose their game. Faction lock is not there to break the game, its to give each play style what they want. PvE players get their space and PvP player get a AvA map where all PvP is focused so you get large scale war not watered down picking on people questing! If ou are a real PvP fan the DAoC model is the way to go. If you played DAoC in its glory days you would know.
Again they dont get the scope of what they are asking for. Quest, VO story and maybe even dungeons are designed for that faction. Make the game generic and everyone can go everywhere and you need to make a new game.
EDIT: Even the OP has stopped posting in this thread. My guess he sees the scope of what he is asking for adn seen the folly.
Ok, but again, this isn't hard to solve. Not saying they should do it one way or another (though I'm a fan of a whole unfettered world) but just add a line for every npc that "There's a war on, we dont' speak to your kind".
end of problem. It's contrived but it does solve the quest part while leaving the world part open.
as far as the last part, I think that's reading into it too much. Maybe he's just sick of the discussion. Doesn't mean he sees any "folly".
Ok, so you get to wonder around a factions map and cant quest, what are you there for? Attack lowbes and look around? Forget about the immersion breaking you are doing. Having a Darkelf show up as I am killing darkelve NPCs that are attacking my village in a quest. You there to watch and dance with the guy? Or to kill him? One break immersion the other makes it so people who are TES pure PvE fans dont get their play space. See the problem with your idea?
This isn't rocket science. If I offered you 1 million dollars to think of "the next step" I'm fairly confident you could do it on your own.
Additionally I did say it was contrived so you are going to have to acknowledge that.
edit: to add, in my mind, any character being in enemy territory would have to be attackable. At least as far as true immersion. Otherwise, it just becomes an "it is what it is and that goes back to my contrived remark".
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by asrlohz Hello,There is now a petition for TESO up, it includes a couple of sources, some concerns around the topic of the segregated regions of the map in Tamriel. In an interview Matt Firor stated that you will not be able to enter the enemy's territory unless it is in Cyrodiil's PvP Zone.Anyhow, You can read more about it at the petition site linked below. Please support this cause and help us get what we want.The petition can be found at:http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/teso-seamless/ You can also watch this video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpx-VcUc02c And read this interview:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpx-VcUc02c Thank you.
i hate to say this, but I really have to laugh.
it's not a button you press and them blammo, your lame instanced world is suddenly seamless.
this is the kind of decision that is usually made in pre-production, or shortly therafter, not 50% into development. Almost every asset would have to be dealt with in a different way for a seamless world, not to mention the code.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Again they dont get the scope of what they are asking for. Quest, VO story and maybe even dungeons are designed for that faction. Make the game generic and everyone can go everywhere and you need to make a new game.
EDIT: Even the OP has stopped posting in this thread. My guess he sees the scope of what he is asking for adn seen the folly.
Ok, but again, this isn't hard to solve. Not saying they should do it one way or another (though I'm a fan of a whole unfettered world) but just add a line for every npc that "There's a war on, we dont' speak to your kind".
end of problem. It's contrived but it does solve the quest part while leaving the world part open.
as far as the last part, I think that's reading into it too much. Maybe he's just sick of the discussion. Doesn't mean he sees any "folly".
Ok, so you get to wonder around a factions map and cant quest, what are you there for? Attack lowbes and look around? Forget about the immersion breaking you are doing. Having a Darkelf show up as I am killing darkelve NPCs that are attacking my village in a quest. You there to watch and dance with the guy? Or to kill him? One break immersion the other makes it so people who are TES pure PvE fans dont get their play space. See the problem with your idea?
This isn't rocket science. If I offered you 1 million dollars to think of "the next step" I'm fairly confident you could do it on your own.
Additionally I did say it was contrived so you are going to have to acknowledge that.
edit: to add, in my mind, any character being in enemy territory would have to be attackable. At least as far as true immersion. Otherwise, it just becomes an "it is what it is and that goes back to my contrived remark".
So we have the flag system, a broken system that any pure PvEer will tell you they hate. So many ways to force someone to flag when all they want to do is quest and hug rabbits. They have a right to play their way to. Faction lock gives them that.
Again they dont get the scope of what they are asking for. Quest, VO story and maybe even dungeons are designed for that faction. Make the game generic and everyone can go everywhere and you need to make a new game.
EDIT: Even the OP has stopped posting in this thread. My guess he sees the scope of what he is asking for adn seen the folly.
Ok, but again, this isn't hard to solve. Not saying they should do it one way or another (though I'm a fan of a whole unfettered world) but just add a line for every npc that "There's a war on, we dont' speak to your kind".
end of problem. It's contrived but it does solve the quest part while leaving the world part open.
as far as the last part, I think that's reading into it too much. Maybe he's just sick of the discussion. Doesn't mean he sees any "folly".
Ok, so you get to wonder around a factions map and cant quest, what are you there for? Attack lowbes and look around? Forget about the immersion breaking you are doing. Having a Darkelf show up as I am killing darkelve NPCs that are attacking my village in a quest. You there to watch and dance with the guy? Or to kill him? One break immersion the other makes it so people who are TES pure PvE fans dont get their play space. See the problem with your idea?
This isn't rocket science. If I offered you 1 million dollars to think of "the next step" I'm fairly confident you could do it on your own.
Additionally I did say it was contrived so you are going to have to acknowledge that.
edit: to add, in my mind, any character being in enemy territory would have to be attackable. At least as far as true immersion. Otherwise, it just becomes an "it is what it is and that goes back to my contrived remark".
So we have the flag system, a broken system that any pure PvEer will tell you they hate. So many ways to force someone to flag when all they want to do is quest and hug rabbits. They have a right to play their way to. Faction lock gives them thats.
ok, first of all you are going to have to take a step back.
1, yes, that is a pvp solution, and never did I say it wasn't. as far as tricking one to flag, that's an easy fix. You either set yourself up for pvp or not pvp. This has been done in other games which leads me to what I've already said...
2, ... that the solution was (and I will make this large) contrived. If I have to make that larger I will.
It's as contrived as you taking a quest in an mmo and over the course of the quest line you become the world's savior. Of course, you are standing around with all of the other "individual saviors". Does that mean the world has thousands of saviors? Not really, it's a "contrivance" that you step out of the "massive world" and your own individual experience only pertains to you. Is this good or bad? I won't say, I'll leave that up to the player to decide if they like it or not.
Since one can't eat their cake and still have it, any changes to the game will have a give and take. That is one give and take.
Additionaly, and I can't say for certain as I was never a big player, what do they do in WoW on PvE servers? If they allow players from the oppositve faction to come to your land (and I think they do but someone will have to correct if that's not the case) then clearly it's been done though agian, it's a "contrivance" and doesn't make sense in the larger world but makes sense in one's own personal experience. It just adds more "theme park" to the theme park.
Am I saying this is optimal? No. But I am addressing your contention that it can't be done when clearly it can.
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The player can explore the entire world, the character cannot. BIG difference.
People are being forced to create more then 1 character to see the world. It isn't an option or a choice. Seeing as how they are selling the game with the tagline "explore all of Tamriel at last" you can hopefully understand why people call bullshit.
There is a gentelmans agreement during the war for Tamriel that the fighting only takes place in Cyrodil. Laughable lore and system mechanic but there you go.
If they didn't force faction choice onto you are character creation and didn't race lock you as well then you wouldn't have an 'enemy' anywhere. It wouldn't be the 'enemy territory' till you had chosen a side. Their design is what is fucked, not peoples desire to explore the world.
I did. very rearely got engaged in any PvP in WOW. I watched fights sometimes but seeing as I was not 'part' or the fight I didn't feel the need to engage.
If TESO have the same world design as WOW it could work in a similar way. Outside Cyrodil you cannot PvP unless you have delaired for a faction. If you have declaired then enemy faction lands would be hostile. Till you do though you can explore and enjoy the game free of the PvP if you so wish. But their design fucked that up.
I guess we will see upon launch. But if you pay attention to TES sites you would know the general concensus of opinion. It isn't small enough that it should be ignore though in my opinion.
I agree, my own person dislike of their design aside, the main problem I see is with friends and guilds playing together. I know of many people who have posted the exact same problem. How does a guild, especially a large one choose a faction? Personally I might play a Breton, Orc or nord. Other races never have and never will interest me. So if a guild is recruiting for the AD I cannot join them.
I know a lot of people that are being faced with either rolling a race they don't like or not joining their guild....not a good design imo.
Well i believe TESO 'could' have been a huge game if they did it right. I believe they have done it wrong and so think it won't do as well as i thoink it could have.
there were people playing MMO's long before WOW. I think you will find the post WOW generations are willing to accept crappy games because they haven't had the experience of how things were more open and creative before WOW. WOW did a lot good but it is far outweighed by the problems it has caused in the MMO industry.
Thats your play style thats restricting you from fully exploring the game. Not the actual game.
and I believe your opinions are invalid because they are based on nothing of any significance but petty arguments and biased gameplay. Obviously this isn't your game and as such to continue to harp on things that will never change nor should do so is somethign that confounds my sensibilities. Maybe one day you might get it but then again you could be complainign about the same non-issues from here to eternity and hardly anyone will care, especially once the vast majority find the game amazing.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
So in summary....
You have no argument to offer so will instead attack the person.
A common policy on these forums alas...
When will they learn to attack the opinion and not the one holding it - one wonders...
No.
Seamless is main world meaning no zones you transition into. It can have 1000000000 dungeons that you transition into and still have a seamless world.
Its like the PvP argument that anyone that doesnt want closed off PvP zones must want FFA...open world PvP does not mean FFA PvP, it means being able to flag for PvP ANYWHERE YOU WANT.
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A 100%, pure, seamless transitional world would be ideal.
Think of it as watching a movie, which is one long continuous shot (there are actually flims that do this).
I'd sign that one.
I'm not fond of the direction TESO wend on the whole faction front myself and I'd be happy to argue about it from a hypoethical standpoint, but y'know what? It's too bloody late for that now.
Changing it at this stage of the development could only be a hack-job at best (unless they wanted to put it off for another 2-3 years cleaning it up) and that would be even worse for the game.
That's the fault of Zenimax - late to share, and don't really care...
Why would you want to explore the enemy faction's pve (lvling) areas? Truth is you probably just want to grief lowbies xping. Lets have a petition to stop dumb ideas like the OP's.
"I'm sorry but your mmo has been diagnosed with EA and only has X number of days to live."
"Why would you want to explore" The answer is in the question, come on, engage that brain cell!
How can you grief lowbies anyway, outside Cyrodil everyone is friends, don't fight, never cross the street, interfere with supply lines, never spy on troop movements, never step foot into their enemies land, never cross the borders to trade, never visit relatives who don't live in the same region, never get the urge to visit some far off pilgramage site, never wonder if there really are that many stepps leading up to the throat of the world, never wonder if you can see the volcano from the swaps, never wonder just whay Summerset Isle looks like...they don't even accidentally fire an arrow into enemy territory while out hunting.
So yeah, it is all about killing noobs and has nothing to do with, oh I don't know....exploring perhaps!
Use my entire sentence next time. Everyone being friends in pve-ville is lame as hell. Why do you get such a E-bonnar exploring pve areas anyway? You do know each realm gets their own pve zones and you can "explore" their pvp zones in the ORvR zone dduuhhhh.
"I'm sorry but your mmo has been diagnosed with EA and only has X number of days to live."
I have played games where that was ramped..i hate to agree with you its not fun when its being done to you but it is alot of fun doing it to other players. but for me its realistic and it was an awesome way to start guild wars and things like that.
Games I will be playing are: TES V, SWTOR, ME 3, TSW
Again they dont get the scope of what they are asking for. Quest, VO story and maybe even dungeons are designed for that faction. Make the game generic and everyone can go everywhere and you need to make a new game. This idea is a fail as it would cost millions of bucks and remove 6 years of the devs work. New quest would need to be made. Send the actors back to the studio to redo the story. Back to alpha testing the new quests. LOL fools idea that cant grasp what the current game design is and how awesome having an area for your faction that drives the story in a way that makes faction pride.
EDIT: Even the OP has stopped posting in this thread. My guess he sees the scope of what he is asking for adn seen the folly.
well stated ...well stated. it is to late but i am excited for the game cant wait to see how it turns out.
Games I will be playing are: TES V, SWTOR, ME 3, TSW
Ok, but again, this isn't hard to solve. Not saying they should do it one way or another (though I'm a fan of a whole unfettered world) but just add a line for every npc that "There's a war on, we dont' speak to your kind".
end of problem. It's contrived but it does solve the quest part while leaving the world part open.
as far as the last part, I think that's reading into it too much. Maybe he's just sick of the discussion. Doesn't mean he sees any "folly".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Ok, so you get to wonder around a factions map and cant quest, what are you there for? Attack lowbes and look around? Forget about the immersion breaking you are doing. Having a Darkelf show up as I am killing darkelve NPCs that are attacking my village in a quest. You there to watch and dance with the guy? Or to kill him? One break immersion the other makes it so people who are TES pure PvE fans dont get their play space. See the problem with your idea?
Wait a minute! So in a more "open explorable world with no locks" you think its immersion breaking to have a Darkelf PC show up as you are doing a quest to kill DE NPCs in YOUR Factions area?
How is that any more immersion breaking than in the way ESO is now with the Faction locks in place. If there are Race/Faction locked zones, how could you possibly be killing Darkelf NPCs when Darkelfs arent supposed to even be able to enter your Faction area because of the lock?
So what, the Race/Faction lock only applies to Player Characters? NPCs are exempt?
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If you can go anywhere and not flag or attack players then you are breaking immersion. As darkelf I cant attack. Great now he is blowing me emote kisses and dancing with me. Thats the crap that will happen if its open world no PvP. If its a flag system or just everyone is flagged now its not immersion as the problem. Its the TES fans who just like PvE lose their game. Faction lock is not there to break the game, its to give each play style what they want. PvE players get their space and PvP player get a AvA map where all PvP is focused so you get large scale war not watered down picking on people questing! If ou are a real PvP fan the DAoC model is the way to go. If you played DAoC in its glory days you would know.
This isn't rocket science. If I offered you 1 million dollars to think of "the next step" I'm fairly confident you could do it on your own.
Additionally I did say it was contrived so you are going to have to acknowledge that.
edit: to add, in my mind, any character being in enemy territory would have to be attackable. At least as far as true immersion. Otherwise, it just becomes an "it is what it is and that goes back to my contrived remark".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
i hate to say this, but I really have to laugh.
it's not a button you press and them blammo, your lame instanced world is suddenly seamless.
this is the kind of decision that is usually made in pre-production, or shortly therafter, not 50% into development. Almost every asset would have to be dealt with in a different way for a seamless world, not to mention the code.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
So we have the flag system, a broken system that any pure PvEer will tell you they hate. So many ways to force someone to flag when all they want to do is quest and hug rabbits. They have a right to play their way to. Faction lock gives them that.
ok, first of all you are going to have to take a step back.
1, yes, that is a pvp solution, and never did I say it wasn't. as far as tricking one to flag, that's an easy fix. You either set yourself up for pvp or not pvp. This has been done in other games which leads me to what I've already said...
2, ... that the solution was (and I will make this large) contrived. If I have to make that larger I will.
It's as contrived as you taking a quest in an mmo and over the course of the quest line you become the world's savior. Of course, you are standing around with all of the other "individual saviors". Does that mean the world has thousands of saviors? Not really, it's a "contrivance" that you step out of the "massive world" and your own individual experience only pertains to you. Is this good or bad? I won't say, I'll leave that up to the player to decide if they like it or not.
Since one can't eat their cake and still have it, any changes to the game will have a give and take. That is one give and take.
Additionaly, and I can't say for certain as I was never a big player, what do they do in WoW on PvE servers? If they allow players from the oppositve faction to come to your land (and I think they do but someone will have to correct if that's not the case) then clearly it's been done though agian, it's a "contrivance" and doesn't make sense in the larger world but makes sense in one's own personal experience. It just adds more "theme park" to the theme park.
Am I saying this is optimal? No. But I am addressing your contention that it can't be done when clearly it can.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo