But there is no need for NPCs in this version. If you want to visit a shop then you would switch to the official game server.
What in the world made you think I would suggest a system that would allow someone to take all of your stuff while logged off? I have never said anything remotely like this, that would be completely retarded.
Upon reflection I understand there would have to be something to do (although the official game should be the main way to progress in all aspects; PvE and PvP).
I still relate the suggestion to the classic PvE, PvP, or Co-op servers. Do you not think it would be cool to switch between PvE and PvP servers on one character (back in the day)?
It wouldn't be themepark or sandbox but more like a playground. You could mimic TES single player games and just keep walking in a direction (no faction bountries, no Cyrodiil war). The cool part is that you could run into other players doing the same thing! With the option to flag for PvP you are giving players the oppertunity to communicate before attacking each other... you may even make a new friend.
Developers should put all their efforts into the official game but make a NPCless "Explorer Server" players can switch between. If you want a break from leveling or want to check out the enemy faction before creating an alt, then you can switch to explorer mode and run down there!!!
Personally I'm shocked at how many people doesn't find that cool as hell ~ not as the main focus but just an option if you wanted.
LOL, I never pretended that I knew what it took to develop a system like I suggested I just said that it sounds like a feasible task. If I was actually working with a team of developers, I would be talking to a professional programmer.
Lol I actually hear that almost every day at work! Our sales reps always promise the sun to clients, and expect the developers and technicians to deliver on those promises. The worst part is the sales reps always tell us "This should be easy, no problem!"
It's kind of like telling a mechanic that it's easy to replace the clutch in my transmission. The idea is simple, but when you actually break it down, it's a pain in the ass!
Anyway, I edited my other post, wanted to say that I agree with you on the Player NPC idea. I think that would fit in TESO
When I was designing websites, I would drive the programmers crazy with questions. I usually based my assumptions on what I've seen others do... but in the end I made a lot of changes and they pulled off some miracles.
Age of Wushu have a neat Player NPC system. You log off your character and they get a local job such as fishing or waiting tables. It would be neat if they could do something like this in ESO, in any capacity (but I can't help to think how cool it would be to have a player populated market - working kind of like vendors - instead of having an auction house or NPC vendors). One day we may be accpeting quests from players.
But there is no need for NPCs in this version. If you want to visit a shop then you would switch to the official game server.
What in the world made you think I would suggest a system that would allow someone to take all of your stuff while logged off? I have never said anything remotely like this, that would be completely retarded.
Upon reflection I understand there would have to be something to do (although the official game should be the main way to progress in all aspects; PvE and PvP).
I still relate the suggestion to the classic PvE, PvP, or Co-op servers. Do you not think it would be cool to switch between PvE and PvP servers on one character (back in the day)?
It wouldn't be themepark or sandbox but more like a playground. You could mimic TES single player games and just keep walking in a direction (no faction bountries, no Cyrodiil war). The cool part is that you could run into other players doing the same thing! With the option to flag for PvP you are giving players the oppertunity to communicate before attacking each other... you may even make a new friend.
Developers should put all their efforts into the official game but make a NPCless "Explorer Server" players can switch between. If you want a break from leveling or want to check out the enemy faction before creating an alt, then you can switch to explorer mode and run down there!!!
Personally I'm shocked at how many people doesn't find that cool as hell ~ not as the main focus but just an option if you wanted.
Red 1/2: Sapphen, I think you misunderstood the point I was trying to make with that, you remove the nps but leave mobs and trash to kill, guards etc, you still have loot from those fights, who are you going to sell it to without having to switch servers? What if your bags are full, in a rush to join some friends you switch from normal play to let's say, explorist mode, and down a mini-boss. Something purple drops with your name on it, but you can't take it unless you drop something you've already being carrying. Theres no ability to run to a nearby vendor to trash and come back to reclaim your loot. This is of course an oversimplification, but I'm using it to highlight the point that npc's actually serve a undeniable function in modern gaming.
Red2/2: I never implied the ability to loot other players who log off in Explorist mode (I think that's what I'll refer to your idea as, I'll explain why soon), merely that if you remove npcs from cities, but without removing any of the goods available in the city, it'll be an absolute lootfest to try and rob the royal vault. If you can walk unmolested into Aldmeri Dominion territory and take an item that only they are supposed to have in the Gameplay mode, what's to stop profiteering? Take what you want, switch back to Gameplay mode, show off the fact you have your factions items?
Yellow: I also remember back in the day, most games I played that had server distinctions like that made you transfer your character over through their official means, requiring you to either pay to do this, and or what a period of time for the character to become available, before making you wait to switch back if you made a mistake.
Green: I remember my brother once referred to a private server he was GM'ing for WoW back in Vanilla, his playground. He had perma-invisibility, was level 100 when at the time the cap was still 60, was a druid wearing a warrior armor kit which he had changed the stats on for his own wants and could solo Ony. Not really relavent, but when you said Playground, that came to mind.
Finally, Blue: I never said this idea wasn't cool as hell. I just don't believe your suggestion of it should apply to TESO.
Let's say for example a developer out there reads this, and thinks to himself, 'Gee, I wonder what it would be like if I set a team aside to create a game wherein the sole purpose was simply to explore as much as possible', your ideas would be a shoe-in for being exactly what they'd be looking for.
Honestly, a game titled Heart of Afrikka or something like that, which rewarded players for exploration, whether peacefully, or aggressively, would be friggen sweet. Make it an open world without borders, but limit the amount of land that can be travelled effectively so that the map doesn't get covered in a single day, restrict the amount of npcs on hand to cater to your every whim so that players are forced to create skills and shops to cater to the needs of the community, enable people to group up to form towns and then to defend them if they choose from people simply choosing to raid them... I'd play that. Heck, you could even call that type of mmo an Explorist mode.
Red 1/2: Sapphen, I think you misunderstood the point I was trying to make with that, you remove the nps but leave mobs and trash to kill, guards etc, you still have loot from those fights, who are you going to sell it to without having to switch servers? What if your bags are full, in a rush to join some friends you switch from normal play to let's say, explorist mode, and down a mini-boss. Something purple drops with your name on it, but you can't take it unless you drop something you've already being carrying. Theres no ability to run to a nearby vendor to trash and come back to reclaim your loot. This is of course an oversimplification, but I'm using it to highlight the point that npc's actually serve a undeniable function in modern gaming.
I'm thinking that mobs wouldn't drop loot while in this mode, if you want loot you should play the official game - this would be for exploring, goofing off, or world pvp. You wouldn't expect to get loot from a training dummy? The reward could be just an achievement or the act of doing it, we're not wanting to encourage people to play this way.
Originally posted by Monstre0auS
Red2/2: I never implied the ability to loot other players who log off in Explorist mode (I think that's what I'll refer to your idea as, I'll explain why soon), merely that if you remove npcs from cities, but without removing any of the goods available in the city, it'll be an absolute lootfest to try and rob the royal vault. If you can walk unmolested into Aldmeri Dominion territory and take an item that only they are supposed to have in the Gameplay mode, what's to stop profiteering? Take what you want, switch back to Gameplay mode, show off the fact you have your factions items?
I do believe that players should be able to walk around 'enemy' cities, but I'm not sure about selling items there. Players should at least go to their faction cities or sell outside enemy cities.
I'm okay with the war setting but I do not think that it should effect the explorer mode in a large way. There would be faction wPvP (again, players should be encouraged to flag for wPvP) but I think those rivarlies should be saved for the official version of the game.
Originally posted by Monstre0auS
Yellow: I also remember back in the day, most games I played that had server distinctions like that made you transfer your character over through their official means, requiring you to either pay to do this, and or what a period of time for the character to become available, before making you wait to switch back if you made a mistake.
Yes but ESO is doing their Cyrodiil Campaigns like servers, you can not freely switch between them. There is no way to level a character in explorer mode. From what I understand the Mega-Server will put people in instances with others that have similar intrests, in a way you are already switching between different versions of the game.
Originally posted by Monstre0auS
Green: I remember my brother once referred to a private server he was GM'ing for WoW back in Vanilla, his playground. He had perma-invisibility, was level 100 when at the time the cap was still 60, was a druid wearing a warrior armor kit which he had changed the stats on for his own wants and could solo Ony. Not really relavent, but when you said Playground, that came to mind.
That does indeed come to mind! In a way that's kind of what they are doing but regulating the power that you have. If this is popular they could add the hunger mod or cold weather mod. In a previous thread I suggested that all subscribers get their own version of ESO to invite players into and release developer made mods that altered the private game - while not effecting the offical game.
Originally posted by Monstre0auS
Finally, Blue: I never said this idea wasn't cool as hell. I just don't believe your suggestion of it should apply to TESO.
I can understand that. I feel the same way about ESO, I like the ideas but I don't think they apply to a TES game. I would have rathered they created their own IP and then stated "from the creators of Elder Scrolls" (or something along those lines).
Originally posted by Monstre0auS
Let's say for example a developer out there reads this, and thinks to himself, 'Gee, I wonder what it would be like if I set a team aside to create a game wherein the sole purpose was simply to explore as much as possible', your ideas would be a shoe-in for being exactly what they'd be looking for.
Honestly, a game titled Heart of Afrikka or something like that, which rewarded players for exploration, whether peacefully, or aggressively, would be friggen sweet. Make it an open world without borders, but limit the amount of land that can be travelled effectively so that the map doesn't get covered in a single day, restrict the amount of npcs on hand to cater to your every whim so that players are forced to create skills and shops to cater to the needs of the community, enable people to group up to form towns and then to defend them if they choose from people simply choosing to raid them... I'd play that. Heck, you could even call that type of mmo an Explorist mode.
I don't think the suggestion would make a good game by itself, it only works alongside a game that has a solid PvE storyline, a PvP system and end game content. Again this is just a place for players to goof off in an Elder Scrolls World, it's not made to define the official game.
I wonder if they would let players Kickstart a project that pays the developers of ESO to make a NPC-less version of ESO and allow them to flag for Free For All PvP, Faction PvP, or Non-Combat. We could set the base price and the more money you get, the more features they add - like world bosses, player NPCs, and organized wPvP.
Granted I have no idea how long it would take but I doubt very seriously it would take years of work to take out NPCs and add a flagging system for FFA PvP, Faction PvP and Non-Combat.
So you actually want a FPS type of Elders Scrolls game?
You need a player run economy right for your system to work? or do you want weapons, armor, fluff to magically appear when ever needed?
So yes it will take years and a whole re-write of the games code. As said I don't think you truly thought your idea over. Sorry
So you actually want a FPS type of Elders Scrolls game?
You need a player run economy right for your system to work? or do you want weapons, armor, fluff to magically appear when ever needed?
So yes it will take years and a whole re-write of the games code. As said I don't think you truly thought your idea over. Sorry
No no no, not at all. The basic concept is to give players an alternative way to play ESO. The economy, wepaons, and fluff is all connected directly to what they already have. Think of it like a server with a different ruleset.
Your whole idea seems to go against the problem you're trying to solve IMO, the problem is not being able to access content right? How does removing that same content fix this issue? You also want a completely different focus for the devs here, whether it be small scale or not, you're essentially asking them to balance a whole different game/design within their current game/design. They're balancing their PVP around the large scale variety, meaning group mechanics will be more important than 1 on 1 class A vs B.
Technical points aside, I really can't move past the opening line of my post. What does your idea have to do with an elder scrolls experience? So many arguments have been about forced factions, cut off from content etc..etc... I've seen you take part in these debates bringing up these faults as the worst part about this game ( deal breaker if I remember correctly was the term used).
Now you want to remove all of that content and still bar the player from that content. Seeing some scenery is all fine and good in the super short term, but what comes with that? Aside from a random NPC spawn?
History tells us even sandbox players will not stick around for the ability to share a world with players and a few spawns alone, you need a game under that regardles of genre, building, economies, crafting etc... These things are some of the toughest areas to crack in terms of MMO development, so you can forget about those in this situation (idea).
To me this sounds far worse than simply asking the player to reroll and see it all that way.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Your whole idea seems to go against the problem you're trying to solve IMO, the problem is not being able to access content right? How does removing that same content fix this issue? You also want a completely different focus for the devs here, whether it be small scale or not, you're essentially asking them to balance a whole different game/design within their current game/design. They're balancing their PVP around the large scale variety, meaning group mechanics will be more important than 1 on 1 class A vs B.
It fixes it by allowing two different versions, the official ESO game and an Explorer Mode. They shouldn't focus on this mode but rather just make an NPCless world, add in a PvP flagging system and put players in it. They should not balance their game around Explorer Mode. PvP isn't required but there could also be large scale battles in Explorer Mode.
Originally posted by Distopia
Technical points aside, I really can't move past the opening line of my post. What does your idea have to do with an elder scrolls experience? So many arguments have been about forced factions, cut off from content etc..etc... I've seen you take part in these debates bringing up these faults as the worst part about this game ( deal breaker if I remember correctly was the term used).
I feel it mimics the Elder Scroll experience by making a world players can walk around in reguardless of race. All content like quests should be experienced through the main game.
Originally posted by Distopia
Now you want to remove all of that content and still bar the player from that content. Seeing some scenery is all fine and good in the super short term, but what comes with that? Aside from a random NPC spawn?
Basicially, it is kind of a scenery mode but with a PvP flagging option. I think it would be cool to bump everyone to the same level, like they are doing in Cyrodiil, and make world bosses players could group together (reguardless of faction) and defeat just for the sake of doing it - no loot, no drops, just a moving target dummy.
Originally posted by Distopia
History tells us even sandbox players will not stick around for the ability to share a world with players and a few spawns alone, you need a game under that regardles of genre, building, economies crafting etc... These things are some of the toughest areas to crack in terms of MMO development, so you can forget about those in this situation (idea).
To me this sounds far worse than simply asking the player to reroll and see it all that way.
I doubt many players would stick around for Explorer Mode, they would stick around for the official ESO game. Players can still (and will be encouraged) to roll alts - the suggestion is to explore and meet other players from all races and then have the option to fight with or against them.
The same thing we've seen failed for the last 7 years
---OR---
A horrible game from an MMO perspective.
I am fine with how they are designing the game with the Right amount of Elder Scrolls that fits the needs of an MMO while culling the stuff that will NOT work and then adding an additional layer overtop from a game design perspective that has only beed done ONE other time to amazing effect.
ESO is perfect the way they are designing it.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Your whole idea seems to go against the problem you're trying to solve IMO, the problem is not being able to access content right? How does removing that same content fix this issue? You also want a completely different focus for the devs here, whether it be small scale or not, you're essentially asking them to balance a whole different game/design within their current game/design. They're balancing their PVP around the large scale variety, meaning group mechanics will be more important than 1 on 1 class A vs B.
It fixes it by allowing two different versions, the official ESO game and an Explorer Mode. They shouldn't focus on this mode but rather just make an NPCless world, add in a PvP flagging system and put players in it. They should not balance their game around Explorer Mode. PvP isn't required but there could also be large scale battles in Explorer Mode.
Originally posted by Distopia
Technical points aside, I really can't move past the opening line of my post. What does your idea have to do with an elder scrolls experience? So many arguments have been about forced factions, cut off from content etc..etc... I've seen you take part in these debates bringing up these faults as the worst part about this game ( deal breaker if I remember correctly was the term used).
I feel it mimics the Elder Scroll experience by making a world players can walk around in reguardless of race. All content like quests should be experienced through the main game.
Originally posted by Distopia
Now you want to remove all of that content and still bar the player from that content. Seeing some scenery is all fine and good in the super short term, but what comes with that? Aside from a random NPC spawn?
Basicially, it is kind of a scenery mode but with a PvP flagging option. I think it would be cool to bump everyone to the same level, like they are doing in Cyrodiil, and make world bosses players could group together (reguardless of faction) and defeat just for the sake of doing it - no loot, no drops, just a moving target dummy.
Originally posted by Distopia
History tells us even sandbox players will not stick around for the ability to share a world with players and a few spawns alone, you need a game under that regardles of genre, building, economies crafting etc... These things are some of the toughest areas to crack in terms of MMO development, so you can forget about those in this situation (idea).
To me this sounds far worse than simply asking the player to reroll and see it all that way.
I doubt many players would stick around for Explorer Mode, they would stick around for the official ESO game. Players can still (and will be encouraged) to roll alts - the suggestion is to explore and meet other players from all races and then have the option to fight with or against them.
For the life of why can't peple understand there is more Explorable PvE content in ONE faction then any Elder Scrolls Game. In fact if you play Ebonheart Pact, you're getting the same content and area as THREE previous Elder Scrolls Games.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
It fixes it by allowing two different versions, the official ESO game and an Explorer Mode. They shouldn't focus on this mode but rather just make an NPCless world, add in a PvP flagging system and put players in it. They should not balance their game around Explorer Mode. PvP isn't required but there could also be large scale battles in Explorer Mode.
Sapphen, remember what I said earlier about my brother running GM on a private server for vanilla WoW all those long years ago?
I can kind of imagine that if there is enough player base around that truly want to experience TESO but without the restrictions of FvFvF, and simply allow themselves to toggle to PvP or not, that someone somewhere in the world will pump enough money into creating their own private server for this very purpose.
What you're asking is that Zenimax do it for you, properly, so that you don't have to worry about the dodginess of some 3rd party investment and software manipulation, which I believe is fair enough.
Again, I don't see it fitting with the direction of the game, but I believe I fully understand this side of the argument now.
I'm not trying to tear your idea down, it's more than I've done in regard to shaping TESO toward my preferences. By itself it's not a bad idea, as long as there's room in develpoment for it. Again though, it really doesn't fix the major issue many have with this game, "not being able to do it all with one character, like TES". As long as you're not looking at it like that your head is in the right place. I'd recommend a little more thought into what players would do with their time in such a mode.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Again, I don't see it fitting with the direction of the game, but I believe I fully understand this side of the argument now.
It may not fully fit within the direction of the game but it does somewhat fit within a TES game. I dunno, I think a lot would depend on it's presentation.
One of the reasons why I made this thread is because I feel bad about some of my judgements on this game. While I can't help how I feel, I think it's pretty cowardly to critique someone's idea without posting suggestions to fix what I didn't like. I probably deserve some of the comments here but it doesn't change the fact that a significant portion of the community is not liking ESO's current direction.
This game is not being made for only FvFvF fans but for TES and MMO players.
A significant portion of the community needs to stop complaining and just wait for the 6th Elder Scrolls game. Too many people are just trying to brute force their desire to play Skyrim as an MMO (technological restrictions be damned).
Technological restrictions does not include faction locks. There are many things that could've translated into a MMO format (classless system, FPV w/arms and weapons, freedom to explore and choose your faction).
Again, this game isn't made only for you but for TES fans and general MMO players as well. FvFvF fans are getting what they want at the cost of everything else and focusing only on that community is about as stupid as making a Skyrim Co-Op MMO.
Sounds more like you're just butthurt that the game isn't a ultra hipster sandbox. Luckly, there are plenty of them already to choose from (they all suck, but there's a reason).
I'm butthurt that the game isn't more like TES, I can not lie about that.
then go play TES. It's not like there isn't an option for you here...
Originally posted by Distopia I'm not trying to tear your idea down, it's more than I've done in regard to shaping TESO toward my preferences. By itself it's not a bad idea, as long as there's room in develpoment for it. Again though, it really doesn't fix the major issue many have with this game, "not being able to do it all with one character, like TES". As long as you're not looking at it like that your head is in the right place. I'd recommend a little more thought into what players would do with their time in such a mode.
I agree, it isn't a direct fix for the issues many have with this game. I was hoping for a nice substitute - something that doesn't try to change ESO's core but rather add an alternative playground version populated by players. I failed to get their interest in this idea and that is my fault, I have to accept that as a designer.
I would say that since I've started this thread, what to do while in this mode has been weighing heavily on my mind. It's almost like the mode has little to no point - although when first conceived I wanted to focus on exploration and the choice of world PvP - I don't know if that's enough by itself. I was betting on a longshot, that somehow players would enjoy something that really didn't have a point.
I kind of thought it might be cool to make organized wPvP games mixed in the world. For instance you could walk to an area and come across a 'battleground-like match' taking place in the open world ~ almost like going to a football game in RL except players could 'step on the field' and participate in the match.
It's actually pretty healthy to tear down ideas. I appreciate you taking the time to talk with me. Overall, I would agree that this suggestion is underdeveloped.
You know the coolest thing to this is the player application. With the PvP flagging options and no NPCs; any scenery, landmarks, fields or city is background for battle.
Guilds could stage battles against other guilds (same or different faction) and meet up in a city to fight it out - even multiple guilds and groups could particpate.
A trademark of TES games is that the PC gamers get to change the content and experience it their way. Why not provide players with different ways to experience your game?
Give Players Options
If there are enough people who want to walk around in someone else's territory, then put them together in that territory. Heck make a server with no NPCs whatsoever, populated totally by players. You could throw some NPC mini-world-bosses around; bears, wolves, town guards (*), and various other non-faction enemies. Then allow players to flag for Free For All, Faction PvP, or Non-Combat and group with anyone (a group flagged for FFA wouldn't be able to attack each other).
NPCless World
The war, the setting, nothing matters ~ we create our own world. Players can walk around in different cities or even in Cyrodiil and explore in/out of combat. (*) Town Guards would be a small group of guards any player, with any faction, can attack. More guards will not come and they will not attack unless attacked. At any time players could switch back to the official game with a persistant character.
Starting Point
The good news is that you really don't have to do much work. Just take out all the NPCs and put players in! If a lot of people are playing this way, then add more content - like the mini-world-bosses or attackable town guards.
Enough Room For Everyone
I don't want to dilute your game nor do I want to split up the population BUT there is going to be a lot of people playing. Some people just want to pick a race and run around in an Elder Scrolls World ~ and what better way to make it online than to put them together with other players who want the same thing. I respect that some players want to adhere to the war setting but the NPCless world will be more of a playground. This way no one is FORCED to play one particular way.
To Ends
I respect that there are many who are excited for this game and I don't want to hate anymore. It would be easy to play off the general TES theme of "play how you want to play" and please multiple players. DAoC players are custom to the idea of having servers with different rulesets (such as co-op, wpvp, etc). Do the same thing but with two options; official and explorer, and allow players to switch between them with a persistant character.
Very well put sapphen - but you have made one error - If I may...
You have characterised yourself as a 'hater' - presumably because of the weight of criticism your entirely reasonable posts on this issue have attracted in the past.
There are a great many people with more attitude than intelligence who use these forums - who find it expedient to characterise others as haters, clueless, flamers, trolls etc, etc. so they don't have to bother debating the issue - clearly it takes too much out of the poor dears...
They should be encouraged to change their limited approach, and if they cannot be, should have their non-positions roundly criticised, or ignored - your call.
What they should never be however is given the slightest credibility.
YOU are not one of them, nor are you a hater etc.
Please don't try to make your post more palatable to such people by saying so.
Very well put sapphen - but you have made one error - If I may...
You have characterised yourself as a 'hater' - presumably because of the weight of criticism your entirely reasonable posts on this issue have attracted in the past.
There are a great many people with more attitude than intelligence who use these forums - who find it expedient to characterise others as haters, clueless, flamers, trolls etc, etc. so they don't have to bother debating the issue - clearly it takes too much out of the poor dears...
They should be encouraged to change their limited approach, and if they cannot be, should have their non-positions roundly criticised, or ignored - your call.
What they should never be however is given the slightest credibility.
YOU are not one of them, nor are you a hater etc.
Please don't try to make your post more palatable to such people by saying so.
I see your point, I've changed the wording a little. Thank you for your post.
A trademark of TES games is that the PC gamers get to change the content and experience it their way. Why not provide players with different ways to experience your game?
Give Players Options
If there are enough people who want to walk around in someone else's territory, then put them together in that territory. Heck make a server with no NPCs whatsoever, populated totally by players. You could throw some NPC mini-world-bosses around; bears, wolves, town guards (*), and various other non-faction enemies. Then allow players to flag for Free For All, Faction PvP, or Non-Combat and group with anyone (a group flagged for FFA wouldn't be able to attack each other).
NPCless World
The war, the setting, nothing matters ~ we create our own world. Players can walk around in different cities or even in Cyrodiil and explore in/out of combat. (*) Town Guards would be a small group of guards any player, with any faction, can attack. More guards will not come and they will not attack unless attacked. At any time players could switch back to the official game with a persistant character.
Starting Point
The good news is that you really don't have to do much work. Just take out all the NPCs and put players in! If a lot of people are playing this way, then add more content - like the mini-world-bosses or attackable town guards.
Enough Room For Everyone
I don't want to dilute your game nor do I want to split up the population BUT there is going to be a lot of people playing. Some people just want to pick a race and run around in an Elder Scrolls World ~ and what better way to make it online than to put them together with other players who want the same thing. I respect that some players want to adhere to the war setting but the NPCless world will be more of a playground. This way no one is FORCED to play one particular way.
To Ends
I respect that there are many who are excited for this game and I don't want to hate anymore. It would be easy to play off the general TES theme of "play how you want to play" and please multiple players. DAoC players are custom to the idea of having servers with different rulesets (such as co-op, wpvp, etc). Do the same thing but with two options; official and explorer, and allow players to switch between them with a persistant character.
Very well put sapphen - but you have made one error - If I may...
You have characterised yourself as a 'hater' - presumably because of the weight of criticism your entirely reasonable posts on this issue have attracted in the past.
There are a great many people with more attitude than intelligence who use these forums - who find it expedient to characterise others as haters, clueless, flamers, trolls etc, etc. so they don't have to bother debating the issue - clearly it takes too much out of the poor dears...
They should be encouraged to change their limited approach, and if they cannot be, should have their non-positions roundly criticised, or ignored - your call.
What they should never be however is given the slightest credibility.
YOU are not one of them, nor are you a hater etc.
Please don't try to make your post more palatable to such people by saying so.
It's likely the title of the thread that rubbed people the wrong way, right from the start. It comes off as narcissistic and a bit condscending (or at least, I can see how it could be confused/perceived that way). It's like, "Hey Matt, I don't like your game, so therefore it's obviously bad and now I'm going to help you "fix" it...". To the people that actually like the direction of the game (including the devs themselves), it comes off as a jab, more so than a welcome suggestion. If he had titled it something like, "An addition to the game that I think could be fun!", it probably wouldn't have been met with quite as much hostility.
Anyway, that's just my take on the matter. As for the suggestion itself, I see nothing wrong with it, assuming it isn't a huge undertaking for the team. The more accommodation of variety of playstyles, the better, in my eyes.
It's likely the title of the thread that rubbed people the wrong way, right from the start. It comes off as narcissistic and a bit condscending (or at least, I can see how it could be confused/perceived that way). It's like, "Hey Matt, I don't like your game, so therefore it's obviously bad and now I'm going to help you "fix" it...". To the people that actually like the direction of the game (including the devs themselves), it comes off as a jab, more so than a welcome suggestion. If he had titled it something like, "An addition to the game that I think could be fun!", it probably wouldn't have been met with quite as much hostility.
Anyway, that's just my take on the matter. As for the suggestion itself, I see nothing wrong with it, assuming it isn't a huge undertaking for the team. The more accommodation of variety of playstyles, the better, in my eyes.
Suggestion taken and applied! I didn't really think about the title but you're right. I was wondering why everyone was posting such angry responses.
I think it is important to have options for players with different preferences. It doesn't have to be this suggestion, but I would like to see something for TES explorers and world PVPrs.
Comments
But there is no need for NPCs in this version. If you want to visit a shop then you would switch to the official game server.
What in the world made you think I would suggest a system that would allow someone to take all of your stuff while logged off? I have never said anything remotely like this, that would be completely retarded.
Upon reflection I understand there would have to be something to do (although the official game should be the main way to progress in all aspects; PvE and PvP).
I still relate the suggestion to the classic PvE, PvP, or Co-op servers. Do you not think it would be cool to switch between PvE and PvP servers on one character (back in the day)?
It wouldn't be themepark or sandbox but more like a playground. You could mimic TES single player games and just keep walking in a direction (no faction bountries, no Cyrodiil war). The cool part is that you could run into other players doing the same thing! With the option to flag for PvP you are giving players the oppertunity to communicate before attacking each other... you may even make a new friend.
Developers should put all their efforts into the official game but make a NPCless "Explorer Server" players can switch between. If you want a break from leveling or want to check out the enemy faction before creating an alt, then you can switch to explorer mode and run down there!!!
Personally I'm shocked at how many people doesn't find that cool as hell ~ not as the main focus but just an option if you wanted.
When I was designing websites, I would drive the programmers crazy with questions. I usually based my assumptions on what I've seen others do... but in the end I made a lot of changes and they pulled off some miracles.
Age of Wushu have a neat Player NPC system. You log off your character and they get a local job such as fishing or waiting tables. It would be neat if they could do something like this in ESO, in any capacity (but I can't help to think how cool it would be to have a player populated market - working kind of like vendors - instead of having an auction house or NPC vendors). One day we may be accpeting quests from players.
Me too.
Red 1/2: Sapphen, I think you misunderstood the point I was trying to make with that, you remove the nps but leave mobs and trash to kill, guards etc, you still have loot from those fights, who are you going to sell it to without having to switch servers? What if your bags are full, in a rush to join some friends you switch from normal play to let's say, explorist mode, and down a mini-boss. Something purple drops with your name on it, but you can't take it unless you drop something you've already being carrying. Theres no ability to run to a nearby vendor to trash and come back to reclaim your loot. This is of course an oversimplification, but I'm using it to highlight the point that npc's actually serve a undeniable function in modern gaming.
Red 2/2: I never implied the ability to loot other players who log off in Explorist mode (I think that's what I'll refer to your idea as, I'll explain why soon), merely that if you remove npcs from cities, but without removing any of the goods available in the city, it'll be an absolute lootfest to try and rob the royal vault. If you can walk unmolested into Aldmeri Dominion territory and take an item that only they are supposed to have in the Gameplay mode, what's to stop profiteering? Take what you want, switch back to Gameplay mode, show off the fact you have your factions items?
Yellow: I also remember back in the day, most games I played that had server distinctions like that made you transfer your character over through their official means, requiring you to either pay to do this, and or what a period of time for the character to become available, before making you wait to switch back if you made a mistake.
Green: I remember my brother once referred to a private server he was GM'ing for WoW back in Vanilla, his playground. He had perma-invisibility, was level 100 when at the time the cap was still 60, was a druid wearing a warrior armor kit which he had changed the stats on for his own wants and could solo Ony. Not really relavent, but when you said Playground, that came to mind.
Finally, Blue: I never said this idea wasn't cool as hell. I just don't believe your suggestion of it should apply to TESO.
Let's say for example a developer out there reads this, and thinks to himself, 'Gee, I wonder what it would be like if I set a team aside to create a game wherein the sole purpose was simply to explore as much as possible', your ideas would be a shoe-in for being exactly what they'd be looking for.
Honestly, a game titled Heart of Afrikka or something like that, which rewarded players for exploration, whether peacefully, or aggressively, would be friggen sweet. Make it an open world without borders, but limit the amount of land that can be travelled effectively so that the map doesn't get covered in a single day, restrict the amount of npcs on hand to cater to your every whim so that players are forced to create skills and shops to cater to the needs of the community, enable people to group up to form towns and then to defend them if they choose from people simply choosing to raid them... I'd play that. Heck, you could even call that type of mmo an Explorist mode.
I'm thinking that mobs wouldn't drop loot while in this mode, if you want loot you should play the official game - this would be for exploring, goofing off, or world pvp. You wouldn't expect to get loot from a training dummy? The reward could be just an achievement or the act of doing it, we're not wanting to encourage people to play this way.
I do believe that players should be able to walk around 'enemy' cities, but I'm not sure about selling items there. Players should at least go to their faction cities or sell outside enemy cities.
I'm okay with the war setting but I do not think that it should effect the explorer mode in a large way. There would be faction wPvP (again, players should be encouraged to flag for wPvP) but I think those rivarlies should be saved for the official version of the game.
Yes but ESO is doing their Cyrodiil Campaigns like servers, you can not freely switch between them. There is no way to level a character in explorer mode. From what I understand the Mega-Server will put people in instances with others that have similar intrests, in a way you are already switching between different versions of the game.
That does indeed come to mind! In a way that's kind of what they are doing but regulating the power that you have. If this is popular they could add the hunger mod or cold weather mod. In a previous thread I suggested that all subscribers get their own version of ESO to invite players into and release developer made mods that altered the private game - while not effecting the offical game.
I can understand that. I feel the same way about ESO, I like the ideas but I don't think they apply to a TES game. I would have rathered they created their own IP and then stated "from the creators of Elder Scrolls" (or something along those lines).
I don't think the suggestion would make a good game by itself, it only works alongside a game that has a solid PvE storyline, a PvP system and end game content. Again this is just a place for players to goof off in an Elder Scrolls World, it's not made to define the official game.
I wonder if they would let players Kickstart a project that pays the developers of ESO to make a NPC-less version of ESO and allow them to flag for Free For All PvP, Faction PvP, or Non-Combat. We could set the base price and the more money you get, the more features they add - like world bosses, player NPCs, and organized wPvP.
So you actually want a FPS type of Elders Scrolls game?
You need a player run economy right for your system to work? or do you want weapons, armor, fluff to magically appear when ever needed?
So yes it will take years and a whole re-write of the games code. As said I don't think you truly thought your idea over. Sorry
No no no, not at all. The basic concept is to give players an alternative way to play ESO. The economy, wepaons, and fluff is all connected directly to what they already have. Think of it like a server with a different ruleset.
Your whole idea seems to go against the problem you're trying to solve IMO, the problem is not being able to access content right? How does removing that same content fix this issue? You also want a completely different focus for the devs here, whether it be small scale or not, you're essentially asking them to balance a whole different game/design within their current game/design. They're balancing their PVP around the large scale variety, meaning group mechanics will be more important than 1 on 1 class A vs B.
Technical points aside, I really can't move past the opening line of my post. What does your idea have to do with an elder scrolls experience? So many arguments have been about forced factions, cut off from content etc..etc... I've seen you take part in these debates bringing up these faults as the worst part about this game ( deal breaker if I remember correctly was the term used).
Now you want to remove all of that content and still bar the player from that content. Seeing some scenery is all fine and good in the super short term, but what comes with that? Aside from a random NPC spawn?
History tells us even sandbox players will not stick around for the ability to share a world with players and a few spawns alone, you need a game under that regardles of genre, building, economies, crafting etc... These things are some of the toughest areas to crack in terms of MMO development, so you can forget about those in this situation (idea).
To me this sounds far worse than simply asking the player to reroll and see it all that way.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It fixes it by allowing two different versions, the official ESO game and an Explorer Mode. They shouldn't focus on this mode but rather just make an NPCless world, add in a PvP flagging system and put players in it. They should not balance their game around Explorer Mode. PvP isn't required but there could also be large scale battles in Explorer Mode.
I feel it mimics the Elder Scroll experience by making a world players can walk around in reguardless of race. All content like quests should be experienced through the main game.
Basicially, it is kind of a scenery mode but with a PvP flagging option. I think it would be cool to bump everyone to the same level, like they are doing in Cyrodiil, and make world bosses players could group together (reguardless of faction) and defeat just for the sake of doing it - no loot, no drops, just a moving target dummy.
I doubt many players would stick around for Explorer Mode, they would stick around for the official ESO game. Players can still (and will be encouraged) to roll alts - the suggestion is to explore and meet other players from all races and then have the option to fight with or against them.
Your ideas are horrible as they lead to either:
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
For the life of why can't peple understand there is more Explorable PvE content in ONE faction then any Elder Scrolls Game. In fact if you play Ebonheart Pact, you're getting the same content and area as THREE previous Elder Scrolls Games.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Sapphen, remember what I said earlier about my brother running GM on a private server for vanilla WoW all those long years ago?
I can kind of imagine that if there is enough player base around that truly want to experience TESO but without the restrictions of FvFvF, and simply allow themselves to toggle to PvP or not, that someone somewhere in the world will pump enough money into creating their own private server for this very purpose.
What you're asking is that Zenimax do it for you, properly, so that you don't have to worry about the dodginess of some 3rd party investment and software manipulation, which I believe is fair enough.
Again, I don't see it fitting with the direction of the game, but I believe I fully understand this side of the argument now.
I think this is my $0.08.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It may not fully fit within the direction of the game but it does somewhat fit within a TES game. I dunno, I think a lot would depend on it's presentation.
then go play TES. It's not like there isn't an option for you here...
You make me like charity
I agree, it isn't a direct fix for the issues many have with this game. I was hoping for a nice substitute - something that doesn't try to change ESO's core but rather add an alternative playground version populated by players. I failed to get their interest in this idea and that is my fault, I have to accept that as a designer.
I would say that since I've started this thread, what to do while in this mode has been weighing heavily on my mind. It's almost like the mode has little to no point - although when first conceived I wanted to focus on exploration and the choice of world PvP - I don't know if that's enough by itself. I was betting on a longshot, that somehow players would enjoy something that really didn't have a point.
I kind of thought it might be cool to make organized wPvP games mixed in the world. For instance you could walk to an area and come across a 'battleground-like match' taking place in the open world ~ almost like going to a football game in RL except players could 'step on the field' and participate in the match.
It's actually pretty healthy to tear down ideas. I appreciate you taking the time to talk with me. Overall, I would agree that this suggestion is underdeveloped.You know the coolest thing to this is the player application. With the PvP flagging options and no NPCs; any scenery, landmarks, fields or city is background for battle.
Guilds could stage battles against other guilds (same or different faction) and meet up in a city to fight it out - even multiple guilds and groups could particpate.
Very well put sapphen - but you have made one error - If I may...
You have characterised yourself as a 'hater' - presumably because of the weight of criticism your entirely reasonable posts on this issue have attracted in the past.
There are a great many people with more attitude than intelligence who use these forums - who find it expedient to characterise others as haters, clueless, flamers, trolls etc, etc. so they don't have to bother debating the issue - clearly it takes too much out of the poor dears...
They should be encouraged to change their limited approach, and if they cannot be, should have their non-positions roundly criticised, or ignored - your call.
What they should never be however is given the slightest credibility.
YOU are not one of them, nor are you a hater etc.
Please don't try to make your post more palatable to such people by saying so.
I see your point, I've changed the wording a little. Thank you for your post.
It's likely the title of the thread that rubbed people the wrong way, right from the start. It comes off as narcissistic and a bit condscending (or at least, I can see how it could be confused/perceived that way). It's like, "Hey Matt, I don't like your game, so therefore it's obviously bad and now I'm going to help you "fix" it...". To the people that actually like the direction of the game (including the devs themselves), it comes off as a jab, more so than a welcome suggestion. If he had titled it something like, "An addition to the game that I think could be fun!", it probably wouldn't have been met with quite as much hostility.
Anyway, that's just my take on the matter. As for the suggestion itself, I see nothing wrong with it, assuming it isn't a huge undertaking for the team. The more accommodation of variety of playstyles, the better, in my eyes.
Suggestion taken and applied! I didn't really think about the title but you're right. I was wondering why everyone was posting such angry responses.
I think it is important to have options for players with different preferences. It doesn't have to be this suggestion, but I would like to see something for TES explorers and world PVPrs.