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Imagine if
Maelwydd
Member Posts: 1,123
You load up the game and are asked to choose a race.
You then get to choose a sex.
You then get to choose your skills.
You then choose a starsign.
You then choose a starter town.
You head out and hear that there is a war going on.
The war is taking place between lots of factions but the largest 3 are a merchant lord from Breton, a Nord warlord and a mysterious elven matriach.
They are fighting over the crown of tamriel and the lands surrounding the tower.
Because of where you started you find there is a lot of support for the Breton lord.
Following the story you find there is a lot you can do to assist the breton merchant lord in the area and doing so might reflect well if you wanted to fight for this lord.
You are also aware of some people looking to hire people for jobs that might be against the local lord.
You decide to stay out of the fight for now and set off to explore the world.
You explore from the Northern reaches of the frozen north to the hot and humid swamps in the east and even venture todards the sommerset isles.
During your travels you get to hear all about the war, all about what each faction fights for and how the world is being affected by each.
You are now a well informed individual who understands what the fight is all about and can choose, if you wish, to join sides.
Should you wish to join sides you will have to prove yourself by assisting the war effort. You can do that mostly my finding work near each factions stronghold and doing quests that can assist in the war effort for that faction.
You could also perform more subversive quests near the home of a faction you dislike to try and undermine their war efforts.
Be careful though as your alliegence can have an effect on who will like you and who may not.
Outside the warzone you may find certain regions who have close links with each faction may no longer trust you.
You also hear of several large guilds affiliated to factions that you might want to keep an eye on.
These large organisations might someday vie for the crown themselves and become a force in the great nation of Tamriel.
Enter Cyrodil and fight for the side you choose, wear their colors and earn your reward.
Play TRESO. (The Real Elder Scrolls Online)
Explore the world.
Choose a side.
Play the game YOU want to play.
Use the Mega server technology to play with who you want and how you want. Select your play style such as roleplayer, solo, guild as well as the type of server you enjoy such as Standard (PvP only inside Cyrodil exactly as is currently designed but with people chooseing who they fight for) PvP (flagged for PvP outside Cyrodil), Full PvP (Open world flagged PvP outside Cyrodil) or FFA (PvP anywhere, no safe zones).
Due to our open world design you can play the way you want and we have not put restrictions in place to force you into any race, sex, faction, region or class.
Comments
Its WWII, a genman boy is now old enough to make in the world on his own. After a few years of education and getting to know the people in his world view he decides he loves the idea of freedom of religion and speach. He heads for the nearest group of Americans yelling in german, "Ich möchte Ihre Kampf anzuschließen" translated "I want to join your fight" and is shoot. Game over, that was short
I poke fun, but your idea works well with all but the lore of this time in TES history. Its the races that have made a stand to say why they have the right to rule. A brutal war of the races is happening. Your idea means the devs would need to go back to ground zero with their stories and quests. This sugestion is not like asking for a LFG window, or ask for changes on how the UI works. This is making a whole new game. Great idea but this game has been 6 years in development with a core set of lore and mechanics that if the devs are artists, have made the concept organicly grow from that.
The lore doesn't have anything even remotely connected to a race war. they made it up. Sure they can do that but don't use it as justification. They could have said space aliens came down, would that have been ok? The only real info we have about lore at this time is that lots of petty warlords were fighting for control. If you can find mention of a race war to backup what they are suggesting from extablished lore then I will stand corrected.
But that was my point...6 years in development and they still couldn't get things right, lore or not. I mean, they made up the lore to justify how they wanted to make the game with all these restrictions. So they CHOSE to add the lore for a factional race war because they CHOSE to have race locked, region locked 3 faction centralised PvP.
They went out of their way to give us the design that people don't like. Talk about screwing the pooch!
LOL, your right they could have had aliens. Fact is they picked this time in TES history because for the most part its untouched. The devs took the exsisting lore and added to it. In this time that is now official lore, is that the races are at war that has been broken down into 3 factions. From that the writers have written quest and much VO story to make that come alive. How much do you think they spent on that? Lets just say the VO acting and studio time? 1 mill, 3 mill, maybe 10 mill? At what point is that money and time no longer relevant and they can say, "What the hell lets rewrite everything!!!!"? 6 years development and how many millions? Are we there yet?
*****Thats the point I am making, make sugestions that may really fly, not rework the game from ground zero. Here is one sugestion to make so you can explore all areas without leveling a second char. Ask that once you have reached level cap you automaticly earn a top level char in the other factions, or you can make a char in the other faction that gets a 50% exp boots so you can just do the main story and be at top level. Make sugestions that will get what you want without asking for, as it stands now, the moon.*******
Another one is guesting like in GW2 with a twist. At any time you can make a copy of your chars, level, equipment and achievements to another faction and pick a new race so you fit in there. Must be on another conflict so you are not spying and you cant take part in AvA but you can do all the exploring and questing you like and your achievements and levels are sinked between the copy and your main char the copy came from. Now you are seeing the story and quests as they were designed for. You are not breaking other players immersion as a darkelf in a highelf town kinda thing.
If the design is wrong it is wrong. If you are more afraid to change a development error then to see the end product fail because of it you do not deserve your position. I know of some games taht have been scrapped mid way thorugh development because it turns out the idea wasn't good. Other games have been totally scrapped with years of development because someone in authority realises a mistake is being made. Saying it is too late is a copout.
The question now is, are they just going ahead becasue they need to re-coup development costs and they realise there a lot of DAOC fans that are just going to throw money at the game no matter what it is and the same for some TES fans. Or is it possible they think nothing is wrong with their design and they are confident. The obvious friction the game is causing suggests to me there is a problem so my only conclusing is they are blindly ploughing ahead oblivious to the issues or know full well the problems but want to make money.
Either way it isn't a good way to do things imo.
Bottom line for me is the question - Could you still have 3 faction PvP restricted to a a centralised location and still have world exploration and freedom of character creation. The answer is yes.
These problems are 100% avoidable which means they CHOSE to make these problems or were so short sighted they didn't see the problems they would cause. It is a shame because their lack of vision means I personally and currently very hessitant about the game. I could be totally wrong about it but at my age and the years I have been involved in computers and gaming I trust my judgement.
So we just made a new thread to spread this same point of view over what, 3-4-10 threads? Your OP of this thread has been brought up many times in other threads by you and others. As for problems the devs and the top hype for game in dev right now on mmorpg.com says otherwise. As for the TES fans who are yelling and freaking, we know most of them will buy the game anyways. Again I suggest you make suggestions that wont require them starting at ground zero and has a hope of getting what you want.
No thanks.
If I have a load of achievements and equipment, friends, guildies, stories and time invested in a game I don't want to be forced to change all that.
And as I said above, and keep repeating...you only see a problem with the quests because you are fixated on their current design. If you remove race lock, remove region lock, make faction a choice, make factions ideological not racial then you don't have these problems.
It is easy to see the problems if you start with TES and work up: -
Did TES have race locks? No, designers added them.
Did TES have race linked faction locks? No, designers added them.
Did TES have region locks? No, designers added them.
Did TES have classses? No, designers added them.
And looking at the design. Could you have 3 faction PvP without the following: -
Race locks? Yes.
Race linked Faction locks? Yes.
Region locks? Yes.
Classses? Yes.
So they had to make up lore, redesign the world to have gaps, had to hard code races to factions, had to hard code regions to factions....all totally uneccessary.
These designers WENT OUT OF THEIR WAY TO REMOVE YOUR ABILITY TO MAKE CHOICES. If you are happy then more the pitty for you. That you defend it is shameful.
The thread was to show that none of the designs that are causing problems are neccessary. I will make a thread a day if I want to, people are free to not comment or keep it going. Free world.
Hype isn't a reflection of popularity or how good the game is. It is simply being discussed more then others. Just like SWTOR, GW2, DAYZ...and other successess...
The reason it is being discussed more is because their design choices are causing a lot of disagreements. These are not suggestions. These are posts made to show how badly designed the game is. I don't want it to change. I want the results of the game to be 100% of their design.
I dont really understand why they had to tie the Factions to specific Races/Nations instead of making the Factions independant.
Why follow the DAoC design to the letter? The 3 Realm (Faction) PvP in a large central location I get and I think will work well. Thats the part of DAoC that people remember as being the best.
The 3 locked PvE areas just seem so contrived. Its like they said "Well, we did it that way in DAoC and since we are using the RvR model for ESO we might as well use the PvE model as well"
Its like they didnt even try to expand on what was done before or think outside the standard Themepark MMO box and use their creativity.
Honestly the whole game just seems to be phoned in.
Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.
Games Played: Too Many
And the game didnt have multiplay as well, or anything else that made it a MMO. Want to remove them as well and just go back to making a TES game? They had to pick a MMO model and no matter what one you picked it would not fit 100% with the TES games. The devs picked one that would net PvE fans and PvP fans, DAoC model and model was a huge success and frankly thats the only MMO model to make it big in the past 10 years that has not been used again and asked for by many many fans. Sure taking a medium from one form to another you dont get to keep it pure, that never happens but you can try and get as close as you can.
The current model lets pure PvE players enjoy the world without getting attacked or forced to flag because some jurk stands in their AE. It makes each area drive faction pride with a great story for that faction. It also give PvP fans something to be excited for, the gold standard of faction war. Also not having PvP spread thin by having it everywhere, but focusing all PvP on one map means more fun for all PvP players. You give up only 1 thing, freedom to go everywhere on one char. Thats not much when you compare it to everything else. Also, they have tones of things to make explorers happy, mage story line all about exploring, ruins and caves everywhere, 2 man open world dungeons. Devs made sure explorers wont be upset.
Seems to me, the devs took what worked best and I cant wait to play!!!!
I wish the TESO devs would come out and address this directly. Just explain why they made the decisions they made and hopefully it puts this topic to rest.
For what we all know, there could exist a reality within the development world that makes the OP's idea impossible to do. They made the decisions they made for a reason. Just wait to try the game and then overly complain and criticize.
This is their first point of failure. They took a part of the timeline where little happens except a few lines about petty warlords fighting over territory. Instead of expanding on the established lore they throw it out the window, make Bretons and Redguards all chummy with Orcs, continue the trend allying motral enemies together and then locking each race into a region without any options for disagreement.
I ask, for the sake of arguing and ignoring how the game is currently designed....knowing the lore available would it not have made more sense to have had the guilds be the factions being run by petty warloards? Or perhaps keep the 3 faction set-up and have 3 leaders of factions and allow people to join. Wouldn't that give you your 3 faction PvP?
My idea means nothing more then showing how simple things would have been if they hadn't followed the 'remove player choices' path. I agree, the damage has been done.
Again, not asking for changes. Just showing how bad their design is.
Its because other MMOs like Warhammer followed the DAoC model but made the game have the freedom to go anywhere and it broke the game. RvR areas were dead and players took the easy road. Instead of fun battles players did gorilla warfare, jumping to easy targets and them jumping again to other areas with no population. Players questing were attacked when they didnt want to PvP and quit in frustration. Locked faction maps is needed to make the DAoC model work as it did in the past. A place to drive faction pride, a place to let PvEers have their fun to.
To illustrate I put it this way, Coke rocks and by far the biggest selling pop. Coke keeps messing with it and trying to make it better and sales drop. What do they do, bring back Classic Coke and all is well again. DAoC works for many reasons and part of that is the faction locked areas.
They did have aliens. Robot aliens. In Skyrim. In official free DLC from the Steam Workshop. I guess it was okay with them.
Honestly, I don't think this game was made for TES fans or MMO players but rather DAoC fans. I'm fine with the 3 faction system but they pretty much followed DAoC to the letter. The only creativity they used was trying to make it seem like ESO had more TES in it than it really does.
There were many things that contributed to the downfall of WAR. The freedom to explore the world was probably the least of them if it at all.
ESO isnt like bringing back Classic Coke. Its like mixing Classic Coke with Dr Pepper.
Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.
Games Played: Too Many
That is totally true. They didn't bother trying to expand on the timeline or even properly repersenting the races. They looked for a spot they could fit in a DAoC war and the loremasters made it so. Nothing about the war or faction locks feels like TES.
Stop using that argument, a multiplayer game doesn't relie of faction locked races or region locked factions. that is a pre-meditated design choice.
Bigger then say WOW? Or EQ? Or UO? Or Lineage?
Seriously, if your argument actually had merrit DAOC wouldn't be close to the top design choice!
Wish the develpers had at least tried. This is ENTIRELY my point.
Why do you keep using this argument. Can you not think of a way to keepPvP inside Cyrodil but want to allow exploration? I can, several. And they are not wild ideas, they are idea's already in cirulation, already being used, already popular.
I would better fight for a chosen master then be enslaved with no choice.
But that is also irrelevent. You play on your server, let others play on theirs. Unfortunately their design isn't flxible.
Haha that gold standard again....I will point you towards other, more successful, more popular designs of game then DOAC. But what criterial for gold standard are you using? Personal bias or industry standards?
Again, you lack of imagination and ignorance of what is possible mean you regurgitate this line endlessly. Even if the borders were open, the currently lore of the game doesn't allow PvP outside Cyrodil by gentlemans agreement (read designers lack of imagination and design skill to think up any other way the a big invisible wall).
Freedom to choose my race.
Freedom to choose my faction.
Freedom to explore my world.
Pretty big things to me.
Highlighted your words in red, may want to read your post again and then your reply lol. Following DAoC RvR system to the letter down to the faction lock is bringing back classic RvR, or as I put it classic coke!
I think that is an important statement. I don't have a problem with the game's systems or quality, it's just personally I don't think it fits in an Elder Scrolls game.
It feels like they worked TES around the RvR idea rather than working the RvR around TES.
So Pepsi can release Classic Coke now?
I echo this statement.
In fact I like a lot of the stuff I read about the game and sure I am hung up on these related design issues but honestly, they are huge issues for me.
Nanfoodle vs Maelwyn has become a thing.
I'm with Maelwyn on the race/faction lock thing. I think it's ridiculous not just for an Elder Scrolls game, but for an MMORPG in general. It worked ok for DAoC because every faction had a bunch of races, but when each only has 3 races, it's just painful. My brother and one of my friends are going to try this one out for sure. What if I want to be an Argonian based on my long history of choosing Argonians throughout the series and my brother prefers being an Orsimer axe murderer? One of us is shit out of luck. And for no good reason at all.
And about the race war thing. Yes, they made it up completely. They actually now have Dunmer and Argonian on the same faction. A very WTF move that really has nothing to do with the lore of the races up to this point.
But then, I'm still looking forward to it. :P
DAoC only started with 4 races a faction. Thats just 1 more then ESO. I do agree, DAoC does give up some freedom but what you get in return IMO is well worth it. As for not playing with friends, I feel you there but that would be no different then any game with any design. In the end you need to pick a side for race, faction, story, server and someone always needs to give up what they want to play with friends.
Bollox!
In badly designed games perhaps.