Originally posted by jocieBIf it means anything, I am a non-TV-owning vegetarian. (PS) OMG, you idiots actually pay $4.99 for a burger, over the pond? Here, we just kill a horse (apparently), mash it up and it's less than £2!
one can not explain why he loves bacon.you will never know if you never try.
grrr. Pig is the sole reason I could revert. I think, from what I can gather, that is the general "veggie community" opinion too
MMO means different things to different people. For some it is simple as having an environment where people come together and enjoy themselves.
RPG also means different things to different people. For some people it is more literally about playing a role, for other it is more about the systems we are used to such as leveling up, gear progression, cusomization, talent trees etc...
When you throw those 2 together you have just about any combination of the above 2 you can imagination, and add to that all the bias from past experience with old school MMORPGs.("EQ was like this therefore all MMORPGs must be like this or they aren't MMORPGs" opinions)
Frankly I think there is room for all kinds of MMORPGs for all kinds of different gamers. From people who want hardcore death and corpse looting rules, to people who just want to log in have fun, make a little progress and talk to friends in an hour of free time.
I agree with the post. Not sure why it's in existence in this thread, but I agree!
MMO means different things to different people. For some it is simple as having an environment where people come together and enjoy themselves.
RPG also means different things to different people. For some people it is more literally about playing a role, for other it is more about the systems we are used to such as leveling up, gear progression, cusomization, talent trees etc...
When you throw those 2 together you have just about any combination of the above 2 you can imagination, and add to that all the bias from past experience with old school MMORPGs.("EQ was like this therefore all MMORPGs must be like this or they aren't MMORPGs" opinions)
Frankly I think there is room for all kinds of MMORPGs for all kinds of different gamers. From people who want hardcore death and corpse looting rules, to people who just want to log in have fun, make a little progress and talk to friends in an hour of free time.
I agree with the post. Not sure why it's in existence in this thread, but I agree!
MMO means different things to different people. For some it is simple as having an environment where people come together and enjoy themselves.
RPG also means different things to different people. For some people it is more literally about playing a role, for other it is more about the systems we are used to such as leveling up, gear progression, cusomization, talent trees etc...
When you throw those 2 together you have just about any combination of the above 2 you can imagination, and add to that all the bias from past experience with old school MMORPGs.("EQ was like this therefore all MMORPGs must be like this or they aren't MMORPGs" opinions)
Frankly I think there is room for all kinds of MMORPGs for all kinds of different gamers. From people who want hardcore death and corpse looting rules, to people who just want to log in have fun, make a little progress and talk to friends in an hour of free time.
I agree with the post. Not sure why it's in existence in this thread, but I agree!
Sorry if I derailed the bacon conversation. lol.
LOL! You go ferrit, mate! I had no idea what to say next anyway
Originally posted by jbombard MMO means different things to different people. For some it is simple as having an environment where people come together and enjoy themselves.RPG also means different things to different people. For some people it is more literally about playing a role, for other it is more about the systems we are used to such as leveling up, gear progression, cusomization, talent trees etc...When you throw those 2 together you have just about any combination of the above 2 you can imagination, and add to that all the bias from past experience with old school MMORPGs.("EQ was like this therefore all MMORPGs must be like this or they aren't MMORPGs" opinions)Frankly I think there is room for all kinds of MMORPGs for all kinds of different gamers. From people who want hardcore death and corpse looting rules, to people who just want to log in have fun, make a little progress and talk to friends in an hour of free time.
Very well said! And I agree.
Unfortunately most MMORPGs are following a disturbing (for me) trend of similarity, not diversity. Games now shoot for WoW-like numbers instead of aiming lower and covering a more diverse ground with smaller numbers.
I can't blame the companies, for players buy up their games by the millions and they rake in money.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Unfortunately most MMORPGs are following a disturbing (for me) trend of similarity, not diversity. Games now shoot for WoW-like numbers instead of aiming lower and covering a more diverse ground with smaller numbers.
Uh?
PS2 is the only world pvp game.
STO is the only star trek MMO (or even recent game).
There are only 2-3 super heroes MMOs.
TSW has a unique setting.
What similarity? Sure there are tons of fantasy MMOs .. but those are not the only MMOs.
And if you look at MMO-like games, or games with some MMO features, there are a lot of diversity from ARPG fantasy hack-n-slash to WW2 tank battles.
When I read the forums, I get this feeling from the majority posters: "I want to play an MMORPG, but..."
"...I don't want a massive world that takes forever and a day to traverse." "...I don't want to stand there swinging my sword." "...I want my heavily armored warrior to be able to do acrobatics in full plate." "...I want mini-games galore, for almost everything I do." "...I want to click a button and be instantly transported to the dungeon I just threw my name onto a list for." "...I want massive amounts of instancing so that I feel like what I do affects the world." "...I want massive instancing so that I don't have to worry about other players spoiling my gaming experience." "...I want to be able to turn off chat." "...I want to be told a story where my character saves the universe." "...I want to be able to jump online for the 15-30 minutes I have free and gain something useful." "...I don't want downtime where I feel like I have to converse with others. I have friends IRL, thank you."
All I can ask is, Do these players really want to play MMORPGs?
All the things you describe is for single player RPG's.I hope that, these kind of players stay out of mmo's.
Frankly I think there is room for all kinds of MMORPGs for all kinds of different gamers. From people who want hardcore death and corpse looting rules, to people who just want to log in have fun, make a little progress and talk to friends in an hour of free time.
There is of course. That is why choices are great.
Look at D3. It has hard core perma death, as an option. It has difficulty .. as an option .. so no one can say it is too easy, or too challenging. You can play a 10 min dungeon run solo, or go on a 1 hour romp with friends.
When I read the forums I feel the majority on these boards love being lead by the nose. They are lazy. They wan't to be told where to go and what to do, like robots. They want their rewards but hate earning it. Spoon fed if you will. The new generation of gamers are vastly different than the ones of old.
When I read the forums, I get this feeling from the majority posters: "I want to play an MMORPG, but..."
"...I don't want a massive world that takes forever and a day to traverse." "...I don't want to stand there swinging my sword." "...I want my heavily armored warrior to be able to do acrobatics in full plate." "...I want mini-games galore, for almost everything I do." "...I want to click a button and be instantly transported to the dungeon I just threw my name onto a list for." "...I want massive amounts of instancing so that I feel like what I do affects the world." "...I want massive instancing so that I don't have to worry about other players spoiling my gaming experience." "...I want to be able to turn off chat." "...I want to be told a story where my character saves the universe." "...I want to be able to jump online for the 15-30 minutes I have free and gain something useful." "...I don't want downtime where I feel like I have to converse with others. I have friends IRL, thank you."
All I can ask is, Do these players really want to play MMORPGs?
i dont really see much people asking such things, but all that reminds me a series of quote's:
1- Since "Asking" its futile, just choose from the list the most appealing one for you. (refering to mmo's in this matter)
2- if there is nothing that you like, proceed to make one yourself.
3- if you cant do it yourself and yet you dont like anything that already exists, just give up.
4- If nothing from the previous mentioned solve's your problem, then you probably need to stay away.
What i mean with all that, there is some people who just know how to say "Give me, That!" and they do not understand
that the developers will not listen to you unless a big % of the playerbase demands something (even with that they may ignore all the player base).
And before someone say's something like "if they do what they want that would ruin them and there is no profit on that!"
Yeah i know! and a example of that will be WAR, and unfortunately isnt the first nor the last to suffer that effect.
My point on the matter will be this, let them do games and post contructives idea's so that way you are helping them and yourself to find a suitable game to stay in, but under No circumstance start posting cry-baby posts saying things like "boooh this is a fail, this should be suposed to be THAT way not THIS" because that its utterly useless specially when the game its released.
Try to contribute with the comunity while the game its in development, that way even if the final game decieves you, you can still say "well i did what i can" but never flame on it, never blame them, because the only one hurted in the process will be you, and your ego.
And remember, the best way to flame on a mmorpg that doesnt like you, or you even hate, its not playing it. Easy as that.
Originally posted by AlBQuirky Unfortunately most MMORPGs are following a disturbing (for me) trend of similarity, not diversity. Games now shoot for WoW-like numbers instead of aiming lower and covering a more diverse ground with smaller numbers.
Uh?
PS2 is the only world pvp game.
STO is the only star trek MMO (or even recent game).
There are only 2-3 super heroes MMOs.
TSW has a unique setting.
What similarity? Sure there are tons of fantasy MMOs .. but those are not the only MMOs.
And if you look at MMO-like games, or games with some MMO features, there are a lot of diversity from ARPG fantasy hack-n-slash to WW2 tank battles.
[mod edit]
I am not familiar with PS2. I've dabbled in STO. I have played CO and DCUO a little bit. I did one beta weekend in TSW.
Do all of these games have you reaching the coveted "end game" in 4-8 weeks? Is the end game in these games pretty much the same? In these games, does a player's health magically regenerate after every battle? Do most of these games focus highly on combat alone? Say 75-80%?
If i want to play in the Star Trek or Star Wars universe, how many "choices" do I have? Do these 2 titles play similarly to many other games out there?
Yes, there is a little bit of variety with a difference here or there, other than your examples of settings alone. WURM Online is a real sandbox with crappy graphics and a UI that is anything but user friendly. GOD forbid if a player wants a sandbox type MMORPG that does not have free for all, full loot, open world PvP. That should be enough, dammit!
I cannot seem to get rid of this little flame inside of me called "Hope." I keep hoping that MMORPGs will come back. Maybe I'll have to wait for all these "insta-gamers" to leave, but still, that hope survives.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
When I read the forums, I get this feeling from the majority posters: "I want to play an MMORPG, but..."
"...I don't want a massive world that takes forever and a day to traverse." "...I don't want to stand there swinging my sword." "...I want my heavily armored warrior to be able to do acrobatics in full plate." "...I want mini-games galore, for almost everything I do." "...I want to click a button and be instantly transported to the dungeon I just threw my name onto a list for." "...I want massive amounts of instancing so that I feel like what I do affects the world." "...I want massive instancing so that I don't have to worry about other players spoiling my gaming experience." "...I want to be able to turn off chat." "...I want to be told a story where my character saves the universe." "...I want to be able to jump online for the 15-30 minutes I have free and gain something useful." "...I don't want downtime where I feel like I have to converse with others. I have friends IRL, thank you."
All I can ask is, Do these players really want to play MMORPGs?
Nope... they need to be shuffled back to their third person shooters pronto because they are just ruining it for the rest of us.
Originally posted by AlBQuirky Unfortunately most MMORPGs are following a disturbing (for me) trend of similarity, not diversity. Games now shoot for WoW-like numbers instead of aiming lower and covering a more diverse ground with smaller numbers.
Uh?
PS2 is the only world pvp game.
STO is the only star trek MMO (or even recent game).
There are only 2-3 super heroes MMOs.
TSW has a unique setting.
What similarity? Sure there are tons of fantasy MMOs .. but those are not the only MMOs.
And if you look at MMO-like games, or games with some MMO features, there are a lot of diversity from ARPG fantasy hack-n-slash to WW2 tank battles.
[mod edit]
I am not familiar with PS2. I've dabbled in STO. I have played CO and DCUO a little bit. I did one beta weekend in TSW.
PS2 is a open world pvp FPS.
Do all of these games have you reaching the coveted "end game" in 4-8 weeks?
No. I have never reached end-game in any of these games. But i play games like games, not a job.
Is the end game in these games pretty much the same?
Fighting with a star ship is the same to you as fighting as a super hero? Mechanics are different. Settings are different. What you actually "play" is different. No .. not the same to me.
In these games, does a player's health magically regenerate after every battle?
So? In a FPS, you shoot guns. Does it make Halo the same as Bioshock?
Do most of these games focus highly on combat alone? Say 75-80%?
So? Most video games focus on combat. Does it make Halo the same as Baldur Gates?
Yes, there is a little bit of variety with a difference here or there, other than your examples of settings alone. WURM Online is a real sandbox with crappy graphics and a UI that is anything but user friendly. GOD forbid if a player wants a sandbox type MMORPG that does not have free for all, full loot, open world PvP. That should be enough, dammit!
The point of my post is that there is diversity .. in settings, in combat mechanics, in types of games. In fact, you just prove my point .. there are even sandboxes.
I cannot seem to get rid of this little flame inside of me called "Hope." I keep hoping that MMORPGs will come back. Maybe I'll have to wait for all these "insta-gamers" to leave, but still, that hope survives.
They are never gone. You can still play UO. BTW, i wouldn't call it hope. It is more like wishful thinking. The trend in the marketplace is pretty clear.
Originally posted by Rusque Here's what I see on the forums, "Why can't they make a game just for meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!"
don't you think that is natural? Why would anyone care about what others like for entertainment except their own? (Except, of course, if you are a devs, and try to figure out the size of your market).
Nope... they need to be shuffled back to their third person shooters pronto because they are just ruining it for the rest of us.
What make you more superior? May be you are ruining it for them and you are the one who should leave.
They really don't belong in the MMORPG space and should stay in the FPS space or TPS as it is these days.
TPS = Third Person Shooter
Why don't they belong here? They are customers just like you, and developers are actively courting them. Sounds to me like they do belong but you just have different ideas on what an MMO means.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Nope... they need to be shuffled back to their third person shooters pronto because they are just ruining it for the rest of us.
What make you more superior? May be you are ruining it for them and you are the one who should leave.
They really don't belong in the MMORPG space and should stay in the FPS space or TPS as it is these days.
TPS = Third Person Shooter
Why don't they belong here? They are customers just like you, and developers are actively courting them. Sounds to me like they do belong but you just have different ideas on what an MMO means.
MMORPG is changing .. and devs would more of the "normal" gamers than those who just stuck in one genre with a strict definition.
Look at Destiny .. the devs don't pretend it is a MMO but it certainly shares some features/ideas with MMOs.
WoW, Eve, UO, Entropia, ATiTD are all very different MMO's from each other. Their only real commonality is they allow a lot of people in the same area. That is really the only definition, everything else is just personal and specific game preference. Those additions will attract one group of gamers and repell another. But that doesn't make it any less of an MMO.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
The problem most players have with MMOs, is they think they're all the same...They're in the genre, but it's probably the most diverse genre of gaming. It's not like a shooter, where you know exactly what to expect, and even in most of them, the controls are exactly the same. Now before you say it, even the "WoW clones" are different.
It's human nature to want to label and put things with similarity into groups, but MMOs aren't similar to each other. They have similar goals and aspects about them, but everything else is pretty much different. Players will play one MMO and will say it sucks, which is a matter of opinion, so ALL MMOs of that type are sucky MMOs from now on...which isn't the case. I'ved played numerous MMOs, and I've played alot of bad ones, and a few good ones. The bad ones usually aren't "bad", they're just not my cup of tea, so I label them as "bad".
Eve is a good example of this. I absolutely hated playing Eve, you have no real control over your ship, all you do is use a bunch of menus to tell your ship to orbit something and mine or blow it up...to me that is boring to no end. However, that doesn't make it a bad game. That makes it a bad game FOR ME.
WoW, another good example, is a great game for me. I know there are others that absolutely hate the game for one reason or another, but for me it's tops. If I had the time, I could sit at my computer for days on end (ahh the good ol' days lol) playing WoW and never get tired of it.
People tend to think, "just because I don't like something, nobody can possibly like it".
Nope... they need to be shuffled back to their third person shooters pronto because they are just ruining it for the rest of us.
What make you more superior? May be you are ruining it for them and you are the one who should leave.
They really don't belong in the MMORPG space and should stay in the FPS space or TPS as it is these days.
TPS = Third Person Shooter
Why don't they belong here? They are customers just like you, and developers are actively courting them. Sounds to me like they do belong but you just have different ideas on what an MMO means.
I said MMORPG... those last three letters actually meant something once upon a time.
Comments
Yeah, but there's rumours it's dog. Not great PR.
I agree with the post. Not sure why it's in existence in this thread, but I agree!
Sorry if I derailed the bacon conversation. lol.
LOL! You go ferrit, mate! I had no idea what to say next anyway
I highly doubt anyone here is under the illusion that ranting posts on a forum will derail anything.
Unfortunately most MMORPGs are following a disturbing (for me) trend of similarity, not diversity. Games now shoot for WoW-like numbers instead of aiming lower and covering a more diverse ground with smaller numbers.
I can't blame the companies, for players buy up their games by the millions and they rake in money.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Uh?
PS2 is the only world pvp game.
STO is the only star trek MMO (or even recent game).
There are only 2-3 super heroes MMOs.
TSW has a unique setting.
What similarity? Sure there are tons of fantasy MMOs .. but those are not the only MMOs.
And if you look at MMO-like games, or games with some MMO features, there are a lot of diversity from ARPG fantasy hack-n-slash to WW2 tank battles.
All the things you describe is for single player RPG's.I hope that, these kind of players stay out of mmo's.
There is of course. That is why choices are great.
Look at D3. It has hard core perma death, as an option. It has difficulty .. as an option .. so no one can say it is too easy, or too challenging. You can play a 10 min dungeon run solo, or go on a 1 hour romp with friends.
that is how games should be designed.
Why should they when MMO devs are catering to them?
i dont really see much people asking such things, but all that reminds me a series of quote's:
1- Since "Asking" its futile, just choose from the list the most appealing one for you. (refering to mmo's in this matter)
2- if there is nothing that you like, proceed to make one yourself.
3- if you cant do it yourself and yet you dont like anything that already exists, just give up.
4- If nothing from the previous mentioned solve's your problem, then you probably need to stay away.
What i mean with all that, there is some people who just know how to say "Give me, That!" and they do not understand
that the developers will not listen to you unless a big % of the playerbase demands something (even with that they may ignore all the player base).
And before someone say's something like "if they do what they want that would ruin them and there is no profit on that!"
Yeah i know! and a example of that will be WAR, and unfortunately isnt the first nor the last to suffer that effect.
My point on the matter will be this, let them do games and post contructives idea's so that way you are helping them and yourself to find a suitable game to stay in, but under No circumstance start posting cry-baby posts saying things like "boooh this is a fail, this should be suposed to be THAT way not THIS" because that its utterly useless specially when the game its released.
Try to contribute with the comunity while the game its in development, that way even if the final game decieves you, you can still say "well i did what i can" but never flame on it, never blame them, because the only one hurted in the process will be you, and your ego.
And remember, the best way to flame on a mmorpg that doesnt like you, or you even hate, its not playing it. Easy as that.
[mod edit]I am not familiar with PS2. I've dabbled in STO. I have played CO and DCUO a little bit. I did one beta weekend in TSW.
Do all of these games have you reaching the coveted "end game" in 4-8 weeks?
Is the end game in these games pretty much the same?
In these games, does a player's health magically regenerate after every battle?
Do most of these games focus highly on combat alone? Say 75-80%?
If i want to play in the Star Trek or Star Wars universe, how many "choices" do I have? Do these 2 titles play similarly to many other games out there?
Yes, there is a little bit of variety with a difference here or there, other than your examples of settings alone. WURM Online is a real sandbox with crappy graphics and a UI that is anything but user friendly. GOD forbid if a player wants a sandbox type MMORPG that does not have free for all, full loot, open world PvP. That should be enough, dammit!
I cannot seem to get rid of this little flame inside of me called "Hope." I keep hoping that MMORPGs will come back. Maybe I'll have to wait for all these "insta-gamers" to leave, but still, that hope survives.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Nope... they need to be shuffled back to their third person shooters pronto because they are just ruining it for the rest of us.
The same person (you) will want different things depending on their mood and situation.
If a game can satisfy a significant number of people at any one time, that's probably good enough.
What make you more superior? May be you are ruining it for them and you are the one who should leave.
don't you think that is natural? Why would anyone care about what others like for entertainment except their own? (Except, of course, if you are a devs, and try to figure out the size of your market).
They really don't belong in the MMORPG space and should stay in the FPS space or TPS as it is these days.
TPS = Third Person Shooter
Why don't they belong here? They are customers just like you, and developers are actively courting them. Sounds to me like they do belong but you just have different ideas on what an MMO means.
MMORPG is changing .. and devs would more of the "normal" gamers than those who just stuck in one genre with a strict definition.
Look at Destiny .. the devs don't pretend it is a MMO but it certainly shares some features/ideas with MMOs.
The problem most players have with MMOs, is they think they're all the same...They're in the genre, but it's probably the most diverse genre of gaming. It's not like a shooter, where you know exactly what to expect, and even in most of them, the controls are exactly the same. Now before you say it, even the "WoW clones" are different.
It's human nature to want to label and put things with similarity into groups, but MMOs aren't similar to each other. They have similar goals and aspects about them, but everything else is pretty much different. Players will play one MMO and will say it sucks, which is a matter of opinion, so ALL MMOs of that type are sucky MMOs from now on...which isn't the case. I'ved played numerous MMOs, and I've played alot of bad ones, and a few good ones. The bad ones usually aren't "bad", they're just not my cup of tea, so I label them as "bad".
Eve is a good example of this. I absolutely hated playing Eve, you have no real control over your ship, all you do is use a bunch of menus to tell your ship to orbit something and mine or blow it up...to me that is boring to no end. However, that doesn't make it a bad game. That makes it a bad game FOR ME.
WoW, another good example, is a great game for me. I know there are others that absolutely hate the game for one reason or another, but for me it's tops. If I had the time, I could sit at my computer for days on end (ahh the good ol' days lol) playing WoW and never get tired of it.
People tend to think, "just because I don't like something, nobody can possibly like it".
I said MMORPG... those last three letters actually meant something once upon a time.