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[Preview] Neverwinter: Taking the Control Wizard for a Spin

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Comments

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon

    I am almost always (OK I lie I am always) a Melee DPS build, I love the use of 2-Handed weapons or Dual Wielding Swords but this past beta weekend I was commited to testing the 2 ranged classes, the Control Wizard and Devoted Cleric.  In all my times playing MMO's I have never loved playing a caster class more so then this past weekend.  Played the Wiz to level 30 and the Cleric to 22.

     

    First the Control Wizard:  Although I felt the damage of the Wiz was slightly less then any of the other classes (way less then the Triskster Rogue) the battlefield control I had was amazing and with proper use of control skills and teleportation (the Control Wiz's teleport can be used more often then any of the other classes defensive utility skills so its wise to take advantage of it.  I think this class will be the ultimate in PvP and will be as annoying as a WoW Frost Mage for melee's.  My favorite skills were Ice Lance, Repel and the AOE ice field (forgot the name).  I think a little more damage could warranted on the non control abilities & Magic Missles though.

     

    The Devoted Cleric is nothing short of Overpowered and the damage needs to be toned down quite a bit IMO.  He also can take a beating thanks to the healing and potion use.  Last beta I did the Doom Tomb Foundry Mission on my Rogue and died at least 11 times and used over 40 potions and 6 Altars.  This beta I took the Cleric through the mission and never used an altar, never died and only used 4 potions total.  Like I said, overpowered!

     

    At the end of the day, I do not intend to make either my Main, but they are a strong contender for being my first Alt.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kniknax

    I may have been spoilt by GW2s character animation, as now when I look at videos like this, the characters seem to move in a series of preprogrammed routines that all end the same, snapping back to position, rather than any natural transition.

     

    They all did it before, but since GW2 when I go back, I notice it alot. 

     

    While I love GW2 its animations leave alot to be desired, espcially when it comes to Dual Wielding.  Hate that both weapons do not swing in unison, it looks bad IMO.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by Kniknax

    I may have been spoilt by GW2s character animation, as now when I look at videos like this, the characters seem to move in a series of preprogrammed routines that all end the same, snapping back to position, rather than any natural transition.

     

    They all did it before, but since GW2 when I go back, I notice it alot. 

     

    While I love GW2 its animations leave alot to be desired, espcially when it comes to Dual Wielding.  Hate that both weapons do not swing in unison, it looks bad IMO.

    both don't swing in unison because each weapon has its own set of skills main/offhand... use main hand attacks main hand swings use offhand attacks it uses offhand... but for neverwinter i find the animations overall not bad(aside from the running animation) just the transitions between animations don't feel as smooth as they should imho

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • KamielRKamielR Tucson, AZPosts: 11Member
    I only wish that the teleport was a lil quicker. I kept double tapping which direction I wanted to port to and only 2 out of 5 times it worked. Meanwhile pressing shift and a direction moved instantly.
  • Dren_UtogiDren_Utogi OuterSpacePosts: 1,713Member Uncommon
    Is it or is it not 2013 ? What is up with those graphics ???

    reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.

  • grndzrogrndzro Reno, NVPosts: 1,150Member
    Cannon? what's that, we have cannons in already........fail
  • LanessarLanessar PALM HARBOR, FLPosts: 87Member

    I played a CW up to level 27, and quit. Now, realize that I've played a bard in the original EQ and leveled solo from 30-50, so that might tell you my temerity on games as a reference.

     

    Immediate problems:

     

    1. Reliance on potions was terrible. 3-4 per encounter at times, boss fights might require 6 (varied based on boss - melee, no problem, unless he had a teleport - then you're toast).

     

    2. Arcane stacks and Chill stacks have nothing to do with each other, and don't assist or synergize in any way. This is pretty contrary to how the class should play. You're more optimized doing all arcane powers or all frost powers. And honestly, arcane didn't keep you alive.

     

    3. It's not the lack of control powers. It's the lack of duration, and almost NO ranged AoE. You cannot control a group of mobs at range without slotting the icy terrain in your fourth slot, and this will totally kill your ability to kill mobs.

     

    I'm going to say that controllers are the trickiest to balance in any game. But design 101 is just off with this class as it stood in beta. One thing alone would have helped:

     

    Synergy.

     

    If, for example, you could build up chill stacks (faster than 6-9 seconds, by the way) and then "detonate" an AoE control with an arcane AoE, that would work better. Likewise, the reverse: Build up stacks of arcane, then detonate them with a chill AoE, and have massive DPS. This would give you better synergy between your powers than exists as of last BWE. Anything, so long as your attacks actually compliment each other and do somethng, no matter if you're using arcane or frost or a mishmash of both,

     

    Some might master the class, but it was frustrating compared to any other class (save for GW; I did not get this class up to level 20.

     

    Even more frustrating was that (at least in solo play), my divine cleric at 27 had far more control of a battle along with DPS, and healing on top of that, than the control wizard did. His first AoE CC (ranged) was level 10. By level 15, you can have a PBaoE pushback + heal, PBAoE stun and ranged AoE lockdown with the divine cleric. This means you kill 90% of the mobs before they touch you,

     

    This was not possible with a level 15 wizard, nor a level 20 or 30 wizard. You can push them back, you can (minorly) slow them, or you can do damage. Fights last easily twice as long as any other class during leveling.

     

    In group instances, I'm not sure of the viability. That's a subject which needs far more examination, but there is no "meter" to judge control, so the CW comes across as a low-DPS class with very limited ability to control the battlefield.

     

    I'm glad some people are making it work. However, because I saw four or five CWs at level 30 instances when there were three clerics, where before that I saw 5 CWs to every other class... that's a high attrition rate.

     

  • LanessarLanessar PALM HARBOR, FLPosts: 87Member
    Originally posted by winter

     No other classws Daily does as much damage aas the CW's.

     

    This is false. A rogue coming out of stealth with a daily can easily surpass anything you can do with a daily, even with 600 crit score.

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 7,906Member Uncommon
    Yeah agreed, I felt the same about the Control Wizard, too squishy and hectic for my taste. Needs more control.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,437Member Uncommon

    I was sooo pumped for the CW but after playing it I'm dissapointed. Biggest complaint was Ray of Frost was pretty much useless. It just wasn't fun.

    Luckily I really enjoyed the Trickster Rogue which i usually don't care for Rogues, so I have a fun launch class at least.

    image
  • nennafirnennafir Greater New Orleans Metro Area, LAPosts: 283Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by azzamasin

    I am almost always (OK I lie I am always) a Melee DPS build, I love the use of 2-Handed weapons or Dual Wielding Swords but this past beta weekend I was commited to testing the 2 ranged classes, the Control Wizard and Devoted Cleric.  In all my times playing MMO's I have never loved playing a caster class more so then this past weekend.  Played the Wiz to level 30 and the Cleric to 22.

     

    First the Control Wizard:  Although I felt the damage of the Wiz was slightly less then any of the other classes (way less then the Triskster Rogue) the battlefield control I had was amazing and with proper use of control skills and teleportation (the Control Wiz's teleport can be used more often then any of the other classes defensive utility skills so its wise to take advantage of it.  I think this class will be the ultimate in PvP and will be as annoying as a WoW Frost Mage for melee's.  My favorite skills were Ice Lance, Repel and the AOE ice field (forgot the name).  I think a little more damage could warranted on the non control abilities & Magic Missles though.

     

    The Devoted Cleric is nothing short of Overpowered and the damage needs to be toned down quite a bit IMO.  He also can take a beating thanks to the healing and potion use.  Last beta I did the Doom Tomb Foundry Mission on my Rogue and died at least 11 times and used over 40 potions and 6 Altars.  This beta I took the Cleric through the mission and never used an altar, never died and only used 4 potions total.  Like I said, overpowered!

     

    At the end of the day, I do not intend to make either my Main, but they are a strong contender for being my first Alt.

    Clerics have always been overpowered in D&D.  It is part of the benefits package to be a healer.  I wouldn't worry about it..

  • Athena_StarfireAthena_Starfire AucklandPosts: 195Member Uncommon

    I got to see the game when a mate of mine forked over the US$60 for the beta. Now he wishes he had saved the money and just did it for free whenever. My main issue is the pee-poor hotkey bar. I had enough of that kind of rubbish in Diablo 3. What inticed PW/Cryptic to use that? ChampsOnline, PW, Star Trek Online all have full multiple hotkey bars. Why should NW be any different. Surfice it to say, I am also glad I haven't paid, I will wait till the cost is a download to try it out.

     

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Athena_Starfire

    I got to see the game when a mate of mine forked over the US$60 for the beta. Now he wishes he had saved the money and just did it for free whenever. My main issue is the pee-poor hotkey bar. I had enough of that kind of rubbish in Diablo 3. What inticed PW/Cryptic to use that? ChampsOnline, PW, Star Trek Online all have full multiple hotkey bars. Why should NW be any different. Surfice it to say, I am also glad I haven't paid, I will wait till the cost is a download to try it out.

     

    I don't know what your trying to say here?  Is it the keybinding? or is it the small choice in actual skills you can place on your bar at any given time?

     

    If it's the keybinds, those can be changed.  My At-Wills stayed Left/Right mouse.  My Encounters were rebound to 1,2 & 3.  My Daily was R, my potions was 4.  My Class ability (Tab) was C and my Dodge/untility was one of the Tumb buttons on my mouse (Left Control by default) and finally my auto run bound to middle mouse press.  Worked like a charm for me as I hate using anything but numbers for often used action binds.

     

    if it was the limited hotbar selection its because these types of games have another layer of choice and skill and it works like a deck-building game.  Limiting your abilities you can use at any given time brings massive amounts of hidden skill, choice and depth unlike the WoW or Rift style games that feature multiple hotbars and the ability to use any skill at will.  Those games don't hold a candle to the customization and more importantly BALANCE of a limited skilbar game.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nennafir
    Originally posted by azzamasin

    I am almost always (OK I lie I am always) a Melee DPS build, I love the use of 2-Handed weapons or Dual Wielding Swords but this past beta weekend I was commited to testing the 2 ranged classes, the Control Wizard and Devoted Cleric.  In all my times playing MMO's I have never loved playing a caster class more so then this past weekend.  Played the Wiz to level 30 and the Cleric to 22.

     

    First the Control Wizard:  Although I felt the damage of the Wiz was slightly less then any of the other classes (way less then the Triskster Rogue) the battlefield control I had was amazing and with proper use of control skills and teleportation (the Control Wiz's teleport can be used more often then any of the other classes defensive utility skills so its wise to take advantage of it.  I think this class will be the ultimate in PvP and will be as annoying as a WoW Frost Mage for melee's.  My favorite skills were Ice Lance, Repel and the AOE ice field (forgot the name).  I think a little more damage could warranted on the non control abilities & Magic Missles though.

     

    The Devoted Cleric is nothing short of Overpowered and the damage needs to be toned down quite a bit IMO.  He also can take a beating thanks to the healing and potion use.  Last beta I did the Doom Tomb Foundry Mission on my Rogue and died at least 11 times and used over 40 potions and 6 Altars.  This beta I took the Cleric through the mission and never used an altar, never died and only used 4 potions total.  Like I said, overpowered!

     

    At the end of the day, I do not intend to make either my Main, but they are a strong contender for being my first Alt.

    Clerics have always been overpowered in D&D.  It is part of the benefits package to be a healer.  I wouldn't worry about it..

    Even barring Overpoweredness it was the most fun healing experience I have ever encountered in an MMO and for the life of me I don't understand why more company's don't use that sort of system.  It's as if I actually got to play the game and watch the encounters without having to watch health bars.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by Kniknax

    I may have been spoilt by GW2s character animation, as now when I look at videos like this, the characters seem to move in a series of preprogrammed routines that all end the same, snapping back to position, rather than any natural transition.

     

    They all did it before, but since GW2 when I go back, I notice it alot. 

     

    While I love GW2 its animations leave alot to be desired, espcially when it comes to Dual Wielding.  Hate that both weapons do not swing in unison, it looks bad IMO.

    both don't swing in unison because each weapon has its own set of skills main/offhand... use main hand attacks main hand swings use offhand attacks it uses offhand... but for neverwinter i find the animations overall not bad(aside from the running animation) just the transitions between animations don't feel as smooth as they should imho

    Always was a huge issue for me which is why every character I play uses a 2H of some sort.  Greatsword and Bow for Warrior.  Greatsword and Staff for Guardian.  For ranged casters it isn't so much a problem but for melee's its a huge aesthetic problem I have constantly dealth with and its the predominat factor in why my Thief was shelved within days upon getting to level 80.  Swing main hand indepentantly of the off hand jsut feels wrong on so many aesthetic levels.

     

    Agree with the running animations and I know alot...I mean ALOT of folks hate the Control Wizard's zen like stance while idle I absolutely loved it and the way he twists, turns and contorts his body around while casting seems unreal and hyper fantastical to me which is why I always play a Melee.  the more common stand still with no body movement of traditional casters always felt bland and rigid to me.  It was nice to see the Wiz get down with his ablities.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • GinazGinaz Calgary, ABPosts: 1,731Member Uncommon
    I felt the same way about the CW as the OP.  Some fun abilities but it felt VERY weak, esp. after playing the devouted cleric last beta weekend.  They need to do a lot of work on this class to make it fun to play imo.  They could start by at least giving you an aoe at an earlier level.

    image

    Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

    Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  • GinazGinaz Calgary, ABPosts: 1,731Member Uncommon
    And I really hated the 2 fingers up pose.  Who thought that was a good idea???

    image

    Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

    Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  • RyukanRyukan Mason, MIPosts: 706Member Uncommon
    Played this class a bit and didn't really care for it. That two finger pose looks too ridiculous .The cleric is a much better pew pew class...with healing. Game felt kind of meh to me, not really interested in throwing money at it. 
     
  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by winter
    Originally posted by QSatu
    I still think Control Wizard is an idiotic name. Next step will be taking away all "fluff" and start naming classes as Tank,. Healer and DPS, afterall why even try.
     

      Talk to wizards of the coast it their changes to the D&D rules not cryptics

     

     You think people would have gotten the memo already that these are the class names from the 4th edition, but instead we get these comments on every thread.

  • gillrmngillrmn ArnhemPosts: 250Member

    In your article, you completely missed one most positive important aspect - spell specialization. Using Repel in spell specialization to affect multiple targets was one of my most fun CW moment.

     

    But you highlighted a few things weel. Yes it feels very weak and needs rebalance imo too, also its stance should not be "I smell my fingers".

    Also most good powers are down in the line. They should be available at lower level. That leads most people not to get impressed by Control Wizard.

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by Lanessar
    Originally posted by winter

     No other classws Daily does as much damage aas the CW's.

     

    This is false. A rogue coming out of stealth with a daily can easily surpass anything you can do with a daily, even with 600 crit score.

     

     Because they are the actual striker / DPS class, and Wizards are not.

    Wizard DPS is pretty much on par with GF and DC, but they do have lower survivability until about 20 when you get your full arsenal of control skills.

    After 30 you can start speccing into better controls in the paragon paths, or better buffs / debuffs. So it only gets better.

    The problem with beefing them up at early levels is that they will cheapen the character growth later on. So you make them better controllers early on, then where do they go from there? They cant increase control anymore as it would get to a cheap level.  

    Most utility classes have this problem. Enchanters and bards felt weak in EQ until you got to a certain level.

  • EerieGGEerieGG AasPosts: 1Member

    I played as a healer during last beta, I got to say I was quite happily surprised by the fact I had damage! I could kill things by myself, two-three hits and BOOM the monsters were dead.

    I am not used to such powers, most games I've played up over the years, if I wanted to be a healer I'd better party up or level like a snail

    Is it better to outmonster the monsters or to be quietly devoured?

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,119Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by nennafir
    Originally posted by azzamasin

    I am almost always (OK I lie I am always) a Melee DPS build, I love the use of 2-Handed weapons or Dual Wielding Swords but this past beta weekend I was commited to testing the 2 ranged classes, the Control Wizard and Devoted Cleric.  In all my times playing MMO's I have never loved playing a caster class more so then this past weekend.  Played the Wiz to level 30 and the Cleric to 22.

     

    First the Control Wizard:  Although I felt the damage of the Wiz was slightly less then any of the other classes (way less then the Triskster Rogue) the battlefield control I had was amazing and with proper use of control skills and teleportation (the Control Wiz's teleport can be used more often then any of the other classes defensive utility skills so its wise to take advantage of it.  I think this class will be the ultimate in PvP and will be as annoying as a WoW Frost Mage for melee's.  My favorite skills were Ice Lance, Repel and the AOE ice field (forgot the name).  I think a little more damage could warranted on the non control abilities & Magic Missles though.

     

    The Devoted Cleric is nothing short of Overpowered and the damage needs to be toned down quite a bit IMO.  He also can take a beating thanks to the healing and potion use.  Last beta I did the Doom Tomb Foundry Mission on my Rogue and died at least 11 times and used over 40 potions and 6 Altars.  This beta I took the Cleric through the mission and never used an altar, never died and only used 4 potions total.  Like I said, overpowered!

     

    At the end of the day, I do not intend to make either my Main, but they are a strong contender for being my first Alt.

    Clerics have always been overpowered in D&D.  It is part of the benefits package to be a healer.  I wouldn't worry about it..

    Even barring Overpoweredness it was the most fun healing experience I have ever encountered in an MMO and for the life of me I don't understand why more company's don't use that sort of system.  It's as if I actually got to play the game and watch the encounters without having to watch health bars.

    From what I understand, Elder Scrolls Online will be doing something similar.  All heals will be cone or aoe.  There will be no need to target players or stare at health bars, but you will need to remain either in the middle of the group or facing them at all times.  Age of Conan is very similar as well.  Other games had it in smaller doses, such as City of Heroes, Champions Online and Warhammer Online.  I'm hoping that EverQuest Next will embrace aoe healing.  One thing I notice is that there are usually a lot more healers running around in the games I have played where there are a lot of 'no-target required' heals.

    image
  • AvsRock21AvsRock21 Denver, COPosts: 256Member
    This game is already looking more fun than the incredibly boring GW2. I still can't believe how hard GW2 failed. If you like mobas, GW2 is okay. The mobs in GW2 can be tough, but aside from that, it's the easiest mmorpg ever. It's so casual it's sad. Also, gear being useless and lack of unique builds is a game breaker. Neverwinter looks like it could be good though, specially if it has some PnP elements. Why are developers trying to bring so much twitch into mmorpgs nowadays? Most games are twitch based, I want my mmorpgs to be strategy and attribute/build based. 
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