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Mark Jacobs and Company - Please do not REQUIRE monthly fees to play.

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Comments

  • FearumFearum Cinnaminson, NJPosts: 1,166Member Uncommon
    Why do you care if there are so many great (sarcasm) F2P games out there for you already? Do you just want another casual game to hop into every once in awhile with the only reason to play is to buy the fluffy santa hat from the cash shop
  • Plastic-MetalPlastic-Metal Highland Heights, KYPosts: 405Member
    Originally posted by Sketchit

    I guess you're right. Both are only games. With pvp only in mind. All I'm saying is that it is ignorant to say "LOLZ I'ma pvper, PVPERS DON'T WANT COSMETIC STUFF!"

    That is simply not true. Team Fortress 2's hats? LoL's cosmetic skins? WoW's noncombat pets and mounts?

     

    Well, I'll be the dick.  Like another poster pointed out about being tight on money, we all are suffering in a recovering economy. If you can't afford $15 a month, then you need to readjust your free time in trying to earn extra cash to pay to play a game.  In the spirit of Mark Jacob's comments about not caring if you offend someone, go back to Guild Wars 2 where you can play for free.  I personally don't want to see you in Camelot Unchained, unless you're on the opposite side so I can grief you.

    This dead horse has been beaten just as much as tab targetting and collison detection discusions.

    Good luck in life, sir.

    /end thead

    My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.

    image

  • TuktzTuktz Atlanta, GAPosts: 299Member

    For the kind of niche game with strong sense of community they're trying to make here, I think F2P with cash shop, and to an extent even B2P would mess that community up pretty bad. You'd have a huge population of here today, gone tomorrow players in the game, which would ruin the experience for all the dedicated people.

     

    If you read the foundational principles, you'd know your idea is contrary to some of them.

     

    I prefer sub model to be honest. Let them focus on ways to improve the game and increase subs for their core design, rather than spending all their time thinking of silly cosmetic things to put on a cash shop to try to keep their lights / power on.

     

    Besides, he's talking about some really interesting ways to modify the stale old sub models of $15 per month.

    I think we'll see some interesting sub model options.

     

    -Discounts for family plans (multiple accounts in family)

    - Different tiers of sub, maybe 4.99, 9.99, 14.99 ?

     

    I don't get why people act like $15 a month is the end of the world anyway. I've had 4 active subs at a time going on games, and don't sweat. I'm not rich by any means either. I'm fresh out of college lol.

    image
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    Tuktz - http://www.heretic.shivtr.com/

  • SketchitSketchit Williamsburg, VAPosts: 15Member
    Originally posted by Dogblaster
    Originally posted by Sketchit
    Originally posted by Dogblaster
    Originally posted by Sketchit
     

    I did stop reading here ... and just lol xD really?

    i prefer b2p / p2p mmorpg over ANY (I repeat.. ANY) f2p mmorpg. Always.

    Please note that I suggested for a B2P game, not a f2p one. I agree with you.

    okey b2p without ingame shop ... then agreed.

    But tell me .. why is b2p with lame cash shop, buyable races, boosts, buyable currency better for you than p2p with everything opened and no cash shop for you? I dont understand this .. Why should I pay for new race or why should there be any boosts ?

     

    So, you'd rather, after sinking 500 dollars into a game over the years for expansions, monthly fees, ect, be cut off from the game - cold turkey, for not paying for a month, rather than pay a one time fee, and always have access to the game - with the option for paying for new races that come out, or a cosmetic item. Even if the playing field is the same?

  • moguy2moguy2 Saint Peters, MOPosts: 337Member

    All I see in your posts is you disagreeing with people and firing back at them. If you wanted a fight why not just step out in the street and hit some one?  To me, all you look like, is some one NOT wanting peoples input but wanting people to agree with what you said.  

     

    Oh and by the way, this game is YEARS AWAY. Lol lets get our panties in an uproar NOW.

  • akleyakley plymouth, MAPosts: 17Member

    I prefer the monthly subscription model.

     

    My 2c

  • DogblasterDogblaster PraguePosts: 491Member
    Originally posted by BowbowDAoC

    I have to say i disagree with basically all that is said in there.

    No offense, but a good mmo requires revenues after th einital sale of the boxed game in order to continue to proide new stuffs, customers service etc.

    As for losing access to the game when you stop playing, totally understandable. whether oyu go play pool, go out and have a beer, go to movies, you name it, if one day you decide to stop going out to play pool, the pool table wont come to your place so you cvan play for free.

    then afterwards...

    1. box price with no subscriptiont fee

    Well, the way i think is this : you buy the box to play the game as it is when you buy it, subscription fee is to ensure what i mention earlier

    2.  In-Game shop that sells cosmetic items only. Look how successful League of Legends is – and they have no box price whatsoever.

    i'm speaking for myself, but i'd never put a single penny to buy anything cosmetic in an RvR oriented mmo, even if the game is F2P. i way prefer to give them 20$ a month and see the game evolve to something better every time there s an update, than using money to buy an "oh what a nice awesome looking armor" that doesnt give you anything more than be able to say " i have a nice awesome looking armor"

    3. If you want to change to a different realm/server more than once, perhaps also charge as well.

    that would be contrary to the realm pride MJ wants to promote. The only thing the liberty is doing imo is allowing people to swtich from loser side to winning side, or in some cases, MAYBE join friends on other side, but if that is the reason, you need to only change once, then the pirde kicks in again with your friends.

    4. Offer a conversion of gold to In-Game shop currency much like GW2 [but do not do the reverse, as this enables a pay-to-win environment] does to continue to combat Gold Sellers. This allows people to buy stuff from the store without sinking in real-life cash

    Since i totally disagree on the "store" concept, the F2P concept, i wont elaborate here, self-explanatory.

    5. Any new races that becomes available after the game releases into the in-game shop as well.

    Once again, i prefer to pay a sub based game and have access to everything that the game has to offer, than having to pay for everything added to the game.

    6. Optional in game subscriptions for reduced price in-game currency as well as veteran rewards for long-term subscribers – special cosmetic housing items, ect.

    Once again, same arguments stated earlier

     

    I know people may look at this list and go, “Ewww, I HATE in-game shops. PERIOD!” But, please, look at what you’re gaining. You get consistent access to a game you’ve bought and paid for. You’re still on a equal playing field with everyone else. Gone would be the days of losing that character you played for so long, all because you’re done sinking money you’ve paid for a game ten times over. Please take my suggestions into consideration as you continue planning out the foundation of CU.

    Having a sub based game also puts everyone equal, with EVERYTHING the game as to offer, even better, i think having to rely on shops exactly does the opposite...the ones with more money coulad have advantages of some sorts over less fortunate players.

     

    So...Thanks but no thanks.

    AS much as i want CU to come out, i'd never play it if it was F2P with in game store, or rather, i wouldnt play if didnt have a monthly sub fee.

    agreed on this one .. 100%

  • Plastic-MetalPlastic-Metal Highland Heights, KYPosts: 405Member
    Originally posted by Tuktz

    I don't get why people act like $15 a month is the end of the world anyway. I've had 4 active subs at a time going on games, and don't sweat. I'm not rich by any means either. I'm fresh out of college lol.

     

    When I go to see a new film with my fiance, we spend about $20's on movie tickets and another $15 on popcorn and a drink.  That's for two and a half hours of entertainment at most.  $15 for unlimited play for an entire month is ridiculously cheap entertainment.

    My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.

    image

  • SketchitSketchit Williamsburg, VAPosts: 15Member
    Originally posted by Fearum
    Why do you care if there are so many great (sarcasm) F2P games out there for you already? Do you just want another casual game to hop into every once in awhile with the only reason to play is to buy the fluffy santa hat from the cash shop

    I didn't say that there were, did I? I'm asking for a B2P model. No reason to be rude.

  • WightyWighty Westbury, NYPosts: 665Member Uncommon

    Perhaps you should read a little before posting...

     

    I quote Mark Jacobs:

     

    What business model (i.e., free-to-play, buy to play, subscription) are you looking at for this game?

    Multi-tiered subscription with no free-to-play option but with (maybe) some cosmetic items for housing. I think F2P and buy-to-play have their places, but we are trying to create a very niche-oriented MMORPG that won't benefit from using those models. I'd rather have 30K people paying and playing monthly than hundreds of thousands playing for free and hope to convert 5%. This game is geared to doing one thing spectacularly, and that one thing is RvR. I believe there is a core group of players who have been waiting for this type of game, and our Kickstarter campaign will either prove or disprove this notion.

    Source:

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/02/05/rvr-unchained-mark-jacobs-returns-to-camelot/

     

    See he don't want the freeloaders and the leechers in his reinvention of Camelot... The game can not be B2P either because he knows he is catering to a niche audience... B2P games need to sell about 1 million units in order to be sustainable long term... maybe less for an independant developer. But this is not necessary.... Succes for him as stated above is 30k subs which is a very attainable and realistic goal for a game of this type.

     

    So no... the business model you are asking for is just not going to happen, nor does he want it... Mark Jacobs is one of the last bastions who truly believes in the subscription model and he will be a success (at least a niche success) with his project.

    What are your other Hobbies?

    Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...

  • SeariasSearias Edmonton, ABPosts: 712Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sketchit

    Mark Jacobs and City State Entertainment:

    Please rethink the archaic idea of requiring people to pay a monthly fee to log on and play the game. We are living in a time where money is tight all around, and there are a lot of gamers that are fed up with the idea of paying for the Box Price of a game, and on top of that, paying a monthly fee every single month in order to login and play a game.

    I will take World of Warcraft’s model as an example. I had bought most of the game’s expansions, and paid the monthly fee for the game for several years. I had invested heavily into a character, and spent a lot of time revolved around the game. The sad part is that at the end of the month, you had as much right to play as somebody else who is just starting to play the game. It did not matter if you invested hundreds of dollars into the game – as soon as you stopped forking over cash, you lost ALL access to what you so heavily invested in already.

    Many MMORPGers use MMORPGs as a hobby. I know video games are indeed a large hobby of mine. A hobby is something you invest in. Could you imagine any other hobby where if you stopping shelling out money, somebody swooped down and took away everything you had put into it already? I cannot. I do recognize that a business needs money in order to continuously provide a service. This is not a charity, and I understand that completely. Hopefully, however, the developers and other players can understand my reasoning as well. Business models that are not flexible are a thing of the past. I’m not crying for CSE to make Camelot Unchained into a F2P game, but there should be some common ground here.

    I have a possible solution to this problem.

    1. A box price with no subscription fee.
    2.  In-Game shop that sells cosmetic items only. Look how successful League of Legends is – and they have no box price whatsoever.
    3. If you want to change to a different realm/server more than once, perhaps also charge as well.
    4. Offer a conversion of gold to In-Game shop currency much like GW2 [but do not do the reverse, as this enables a pay-to-win environment] does to continue to combat Gold Sellers. This allows people to buy stuff from the store without sinking in real-life cash
    5. Any new races that becomes available after the game releases into the in-game shop as well.
    6. Optional in game subscriptions for reduced price for in-game shop currency as well as veteran rewards for long-term subscribers – special cosmetic housing items, ect.

    I know people may look at this list and go, “Ewww, I HATE in-game shops. PERIOD!” But, please, look at what you’re gaining. You get consistent access to a game you’ve bought and paid for. You’re still on a equal playing field with everyone else. Gone would be the days of losing that character you played for so long, all because you’re done sinking money you’ve paid for a game ten times over. Please take my suggestions into consideration as you continue planning out the foundation of CU.

    You do understand that CU is being developed by a small indie team right? Developing cash shop items with a small team like that is not going to go well. You do also realize that this game is going to have a multi-tier subscription model right and it is not going to cost you $15 per month, I think you should stop being cheap.

    <InvalidTag type="text/javascript" src="http://www.gamebreaker.tv/cce/e.js"></script><div class="cce_pane" content-slug="which-world-of-warcraft-villain-are-you" ctype="quiz" d="http://www.gamebreaker.tv"></div>;

  • dynamicipftwdynamicipftw Arrow, ALPosts: 207Member
    I am generally VERY anti-Subscription, but MJ convinced me that it is the best option for this game (as long as the cheapest sub tiers are as low as 5 euros per month).
  • SketchitSketchit Williamsburg, VAPosts: 15Member
    Originally posted by moguy2

    All I see in your posts is you disagreeing with people and firing back at them. If you wanted a fight why not just step out in the street and hit some one?  To me, all you look like, is some one NOT wanting peoples input but wanting people to agree with what you said.  

     

    Oh and by the way, this game is YEARS AWAY. Lol lets get our panties in an uproar NOW.

    I feel the need to respond to people who talk to me. I'm sorry if that concept is foreign. I want to stand by my decision and defend it, and speak my logic behind it. I'm not insulting others, I'm defending my point of view.  I didn't come here to fight, a lot of my replies are me saying that... as my post clearly states, I'm not asking for a f2p game.

    I know its odd, everyone is agaisnt me, I should do what many others do and run and hide.

  • DogblasterDogblaster PraguePosts: 491Member
    Originally posted by Sketchit

    So, you'd rather, after sinking 500 dollars into a game over the years for expansions, monthly fees, ect, be cut off from the game - cold turkey, for not paying for a month, rather than pay a one time fee, and always have access to the game - with the option for paying for new races that come out, or a cosmetic item. Even if the playing field is the same?

    If i remeber it correctly, If I stop paying my gym pass now I wont be allowed to go there again, even after i payed around 3000 for it already in past few years. And yea, I am okey with it. I see P2P subscription as fee for using their servers, maintanance and all. What is wrong with that?

     

    B2P/F2P games focus A LOT on creating new cash shop items so they make money because cash shop is their MAIN source of income... sad, but true

    P2P games have to focus on content, server issues, etc to retain its players. because their main source of income is subscription, not microtransaction.

     

    MMORPGs are created/developed only to make money for developers/investors ..  p2p give developers a lot more reasons to focus on content/game/servers than f2p/b2p games.

  • SketchitSketchit Williamsburg, VAPosts: 15Member
    Alright folks, I get it, you hate the idea. Perhaps I was wrong. I'm sorry to upset so many individuals with my  blasphemy.
  • BowbowDAoCBowbowDAoC Granby, QCPosts: 470Member

    Sketchit, please read my answer on page 4, it gives pretty good reasons as to why most (if not all) of us dont agree. its worth reading

     

    Plus, like someone said earlier, 15-20$ a month for unlimited access to your hobby, hell i used to spend 10  times that to play pool in my younger days.

    image

    Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
    Thurka on WAR

    image

  • sweetdigssweetdigs Washington, DCPosts: 196Member
    Originally posted by Sketchit
    Originally posted by Fearum
    Why do you care if there are so many great (sarcasm) F2P games out there for you already? Do you just want another casual game to hop into every once in awhile with the only reason to play is to buy the fluffy santa hat from the cash shop

    I didn't say that there were, did I? I'm asking for a B2P model. No reason to be rude.

    Sure there is. 

  • alterfenixalterfenix Bielsko-BialaPosts: 343Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sketchit

    Mark Jacobs and City State Entertainment:

    Please rethink the archaic idea of requiring people to pay a monthly fee to log on and play the game. We are living in a time where money is tight all around, and there are a lot of gamers that are fed up with the idea of paying for the Box Price of a game, and on top of that, paying a monthly fee every single month in order to login and play a game.

    I will take World of Warcraft’s model as an example. I had bought most of the game’s expansions, and paid the monthly fee for the game for several years. I had invested heavily into a character, and spent a lot of time revolved around the game. The sad part is that at the end of the month, you had as much right to play as somebody else who is just starting to play the game. It did not matter if you invested hundreds of dollars into the game – as soon as you stopped forking over cash, you lost ALL access to what you so heavily invested in already.

    Many MMORPGers use MMORPGs as a hobby. I know video games are indeed a large hobby of mine. A hobby is something you invest in. Could you imagine any other hobby where if you stopping shelling out money, somebody swooped down and took away everything you had put into it already? I cannot. I do recognize that a business needs money in order to continuously provide a service. This is not a charity, and I understand that completely. Hopefully, however, the developers and other players can understand my reasoning as well. Business models that are not flexible are a thing of the past. I’m not crying for CSE to make Camelot Unchained into a F2P game, but there should be some common ground here.

    I have a possible solution to this problem.

    1. A box price with no subscription fee.
    2.  In-Game shop that sells cosmetic items only. Look how successful League of Legends is – and they have no box price whatsoever.
    3. If you want to change to a different realm/server more than once, perhaps also charge as well.
    4. Offer a conversion of gold to In-Game shop currency much like GW2 [but do not do the reverse, as this enables a pay-to-win environment] does to continue to combat Gold Sellers. This allows people to buy stuff from the store without sinking in real-life cash
    5. Any new races that becomes available after the game releases into the in-game shop as well.
    6. Optional in game subscriptions for reduced price for in-game shop currency as well as veteran rewards for long-term subscribers – special cosmetic housing items, ect.

    I know people may look at this list and go, “Ewww, I HATE in-game shops. PERIOD!” But, please, look at what you’re gaining. You get consistent access to a game you’ve bought and paid for. You’re still on a equal playing field with everyone else. Gone would be the days of losing that character you played for so long, all because you’re done sinking money you’ve paid for a game ten times over. Please take my suggestions into consideration as you continue planning out the foundation of CU.

    As much as such freemium would easily work in case of PvE game (in fact it does after all) in PvP title it would cause only more problems than worth of it.

    Simple scenario. Monthly fee is 10$. You have 100 players and in typical p2p model that gives you 1000$ each month. In your model if let say 90% ppl pay subscription it would make no difference but then how can you make sure that it happens? Rather it would be 50 ppl pay and 50 ppl eventually MAY use item shop. That gives 500$ + something. Not everyone likes cosmetic stuff and so on so not everyone would use it. You can't be certain how much that "something" would be therefore total it may be over 1000$ as well as only 500$. It easily can become way too unstable for serious title that is not f2p by it's design.

  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser ParisPosts: 1,873Member
    Originally posted by morfidon

    Also DISAGREE. I want a good community. Not a hoping players who jump from realm to realm.

    I don't want also so many kids. 

    10-15$ per month is very cheap. And it's good for overall quality of game. Let devs focus on game not on rewards for people who pay. 

    BTW LoL is instant action game not a game like CU is gonna be. CU is gonna have legendary moments that might be unpredictable and we need it to be paid not free.

    Ehh..as if there are no kids in P2P games right? 

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

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  • sweetdigssweetdigs Washington, DCPosts: 196Member
    Originally posted by Sketchit
    Originally posted by moguy2

    All I see in your posts is you disagreeing with people and firing back at them. If you wanted a fight why not just step out in the street and hit some one?  To me, all you look like, is some one NOT wanting peoples input but wanting people to agree with what you said.  

     

    Oh and by the way, this game is YEARS AWAY. Lol lets get our panties in an uproar NOW.

    I feel the need to respond to people who talk to me. I'm sorry if that concept is foreign. I want to stand by my decision and defend it, and speak my logic behind it. I'm not insulting others, I'm defending my point of view.  I didn't come here to fight, a lot of my replies are me saying that... as my post clearly states, I'm not asking for a f2p game.

    I know its odd, everyone is agaisnt me, I should do what many others do and run and hide.

    No, you should just not bother repeatedly posting a request that is clearly NOT going to be implemented per Mark Jacobs' own words and that is one of the basis for the kickstarter funding.

  • WellzyCWellzyC Stillwater, MNPosts: 557Member Uncommon

     

    Disagree.

     

    Prefer Sub model.

    The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.

    The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...


    www.CeaselessGuild.com

  • MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member

    I don't mind paying a sub fee for a great game either, especially if it will keep the game hoppers away.

    Besides, they are damned if they do ~ damned if they don't.  3/4 of the people on this forum believe MMO games should be completely free, as in they don't have to pay a dime for any of it whatsoever.  They whine about cash shops, whine about box fees, and whine about subs.

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • morfidonmorfidon BochniaPosts: 245Member
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by morfidon

    Also DISAGREE. I want a good community. Not a hoping players who jump from realm to realm.

    I don't want also so many kids. 

    10-15$ per month is very cheap. And it's good for overall quality of game. Let devs focus on game not on rewards for people who pay. 

    BTW LoL is instant action game not a game like CU is gonna be. CU is gonna have legendary moments that might be unpredictable and we need it to be paid not free.

    Ehh..as if there are no kids in P2P games right? 

    Ehh as if there are so many like in F2P game right?

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon

    I don't like monthly fees and it's many horrible arguments, like:

    1. "anyone has that amount of money": That amount of money is clearly not in everyones hand, if you have it great. Give thanks for the fact that you have a well paying job or have parents who give you money or maybe won the lotto, I don't know or care the point is not everyone is on the same boat so please don't boast how "cheap" it is. It just makes you look ignorant.
    2. "kids will come!": The kids that will come are the spoiled brats that can afford a sub.
    3. "It's cheaper than a movie!": Yes, it's cheaper than a movie, an amusement park, a concert, ect... Where this falls flat on its ass is that compared to other games it's more expensive. It's easy to know there is something wrong when folks try to justify the price of something when they have to start compairing it to other things aside from it's direct competition.
    4. "they need that montly income": In this market with so many games that cost much less they will not get that monthly income if players feel like they could be getting more for their money elsewhere. They have to lower the price of admission in order to even get people in the door and after they are in the door they have to blow them away to justify a sub. So it actually hurts to charge a sub even though it sounds good in theory(in this market).

     

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  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by morfidon
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by morfidon

    Also DISAGREE. I want a good community. Not a hoping players who jump from realm to realm.

    I don't want also so many kids. 

    10-15$ per month is very cheap. And it's good for overall quality of game. Let devs focus on game not on rewards for people who pay. 

    BTW LoL is instant action game not a game like CU is gonna be. CU is gonna have legendary moments that might be unpredictable and we need it to be paid not free.

    Ehh..as if there are no kids in P2P games right? 

    Ehh as if there are so many like in F2P game right?

    As far as you and me can tell, yes. We don't have the data but with our limited tools it's obvious there are tons of kids playing P2P games, like WoW.

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