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Mark Jacobs and Company - Please do not REQUIRE monthly fees to play.

SketchitSketchit Williamsburg, VAPosts: 15Member

Mark Jacobs and City State Entertainment:

Please rethink the archaic idea of requiring people to pay a monthly fee to log on and play the game. We are living in a time where money is tight all around, and there are a lot of gamers that are fed up with the idea of paying for the Box Price of a game, and on top of that, paying a monthly fee every single month in order to login and play a game.

I will take World of Warcraft’s model as an example. I had bought most of the game’s expansions, and paid the monthly fee for the game for several years. I had invested heavily into a character, and spent a lot of time revolved around the game. The sad part is that at the end of the month, you had as much right to play as somebody else who is just starting to play the game. It did not matter if you invested hundreds of dollars into the game – as soon as you stopped forking over cash, you lost ALL access to what you so heavily invested in already.

Many MMORPGers use MMORPGs as a hobby. I know video games are indeed a large hobby of mine. A hobby is something you invest in. Could you imagine any other hobby where if you stopping shelling out money, somebody swooped down and took away everything you had put into it already? I cannot. I do recognize that a business needs money in order to continuously provide a service. This is not a charity, and I understand that completely. Hopefully, however, the developers and other players can understand my reasoning as well. Business models that are not flexible are a thing of the past. I’m not crying for CSE to make Camelot Unchained into a F2P game, but there should be some common ground here.

I have a possible solution to this problem.

  1. A box price with no subscription fee.
  2.  In-Game shop that sells cosmetic items only. Look how successful League of Legends is – and they have no box price whatsoever.
  3. If you want to change to a different realm/server more than once, perhaps also charge as well.
  4. Offer a conversion of gold to In-Game shop currency much like GW2 [but do not do the reverse, as this enables a pay-to-win environment] does to continue to combat Gold Sellers. This allows people to buy stuff from the store without sinking in real-life cash
  5. Any new races that becomes available after the game releases into the in-game shop as well.
  6. Optional in game subscriptions for reduced price for in-game shop currency as well as veteran rewards for long-term subscribers – special cosmetic housing items, ect.

I know people may look at this list and go, “Ewww, I HATE in-game shops. PERIOD!” But, please, look at what you’re gaining. You get consistent access to a game you’ve bought and paid for. You’re still on a equal playing field with everyone else. Gone would be the days of losing that character you played for so long, all because you’re done sinking money you’ve paid for a game ten times over. Please take my suggestions into consideration as you continue planning out the foundation of CU.

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Comments

  • sweetdigssweetdigs Washington, DCPosts: 196Member

    DISAGREE!!

    Make it a monthly subscription.  No cash house.  No pay to win.  No pay to level past level 20. 

    Just a flat monthly subscription so everybody is on equal footing.

     

  • Niix_OzekNiix_Ozek Calgary, ABPosts: 397Member

    He has already stated it will be subscription and doesn't care if he offends a few people.

    stop posting these ugh

    Ozek - DAOC
    Niix - Other games that sucked

  • sweetdigssweetdigs Washington, DCPosts: 196Member
    Originally posted by Sketchit
    Originally posted by sweetdigs

    DISAGREE!!

    Make it a monthly subscription.  No cash house.  No pay to win.  No pay to level past level 20. 

    Just a flat monthly subscription so everybody is on equal footing.

     

     

    [mod edit]

    I read your post.  I disagree wholly with most of it. [mod edit]

    First, you propose:  Optional in game subscriptions for reduced price in-game currency

    Then, you state:  You’re still on a equal playing field with everyone else

    [mod edit]

     

     

  • SketchitSketchit Williamsburg, VAPosts: 15Member
    Originally posted by sweetdigs
    Originally posted by Sketchit
    Originally posted by sweetdigs

    DISAGREE!!

    Make it a monthly subscription.  No cash house.  No pay to win.  No pay to level past level 20. 

    Just a flat monthly subscription so everybody is on equal footing.

     

     

    [mod edit]

    I read your post.  I disagree wholly with most of it.

     

     

    So, you probably realized I, too, spoke out against pay2win and paying to level - as well as everyone being on equal footing. If you realized that, then why did you feel the need to type what  you did? I'm saying they'd recieve the In-Game item shop currency, that offers cosmetic items. That doesn't make the game unbalanced.

  • morfidonmorfidon BochniaPosts: 245Member

    Also DISAGREE. I want a good community. Not a hoping players who jump from realm to realm.

    I don't want also so many kids. 

    10-15$ per month is very cheap. And it's good for overall quality of game. Let devs focus on game not on rewards for people who pay. 

    BTW LoL is instant action game not a game like CU is gonna be. CU is gonna have legendary moments that might be unpredictable and we need it to be paid not free.

  • ManestreamManestream PrestonPosts: 633Member Uncommon

    Also dissagree.

    They have to cover costs of running the servers, staff and other things. I however find that having a monthly subscription you then know how much that game is for the entire month of play. With so called F2P games (item shops) this cost is dramatically increased as always, at some stage you will be forced to have to use the item shop, although this is needed the cost can spiral to 3, 4, 5 or more times what a monthly subscription game does cost.

    I prefer the monthly subscription fee (i know where i stand with the game), and also having to purchase the game too. Money is tight at the present moment, but dont be fooled into thinking these F2P games are cheaper as they are not.

  • SketchitSketchit Williamsburg, VAPosts: 15Member
    Originally posted by morfidon

    Also DISAGREE. I want a good community. Not a hoping players who jump from realm to realm.

    I don't want also so many kids. 

    10-15$ per month is very cheap. And it's good for overall quality of game. Let devs focus on game not on rewards for people who pay. 

    BTW LoL is instant action game not a game like CU is gonna be. CU is gonna have legendary moments that might be unpredictable and we need it to be paid not free.

    You don't want so many kids? I really hate to let you down, but if kids want to play a game, they'll get their parents to fork over the cash. Sorry. Look at WoW. Look at Xbox live. A monthly fee does not stop children from playing.

    Players who hop from realm to realm could be stopped with a box fee.

  • Plastic-MetalPlastic-Metal Highland Heights, KYPosts: 405Member

    I'm not trying to disrespect or insult you, both let me publically post a few things here to clear the air:

    In the days prior to digital download, the box price covered several things:  profit for the developer, cost of the producer, shipping/handling companies, and all the overhead in and between the beginning and release of the game.

    Unless the game continuously pulls in new customers, the company's revenue stream ends there.  However, if they charge a monthly fee it allows the MMO company to constantly updated/patch the game, provide new content, maintain the servers, and continue to advertise, a long with a whole list of internal costs.

    Is the in-game shop a worthy idea to cover it?  Yes and no.  This is a niche game, which automatically disqualifies people that have selective interest in PvE content, among other things.  I sincerely doubt a 'free to play' model will work for CU.

    On the bright side, I'm pretty sure I heard/read Mark say something about a potential in tiered subscription rates.  Absolute free players should certainly have a lot of the game limited to them, though.

    My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.

    image

  • SketchitSketchit Williamsburg, VAPosts: 15Member
    Originally posted by Manestream

    Also dissagree.

    They have to cover costs of running the servers, staff and other things. I however find that having a monthly subscription you then know how much that game is for the entire month of play. With so called F2P games (item shops) this cost is dramatically increased as always, at some stage you will be forced to have to use the item shop, although this is needed the cost can spiral to 3, 4, 5 or more times what a monthly subscription game does cost.

    I prefer the monthly subscription fee (i know where i stand with the game), and also having to purchase the game too. Money is tight at the present moment, but dont be fooled into thinking these F2P games are cheaper as they are not.

    Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 can cover the cost of the servers without a monthly fee.

    GW2 gets monthly content updates, with no monthly fee.

    The in-game shop is cosmetic only. It works.

    I didn't say make it F2P, I suggested B2P. Which is different.

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148 1, NJPosts: 6,690Member
    No thanks but thanks for the suggestion. Do not want to see anymore cash shops or f2p business models.
    30
  • SketchitSketchit Williamsburg, VAPosts: 15Member
    Originally posted by Plastic-Metal

    On the bright side, I'm pretty sure I heard/read Mark say something about a potential in tiered subscription rates.  Absolute free players should certainly have a lot of the game limited to them, though.

    So, then it makes the game worse for those players than some F2P or B2P games then?

  • Plastic-MetalPlastic-Metal Highland Heights, KYPosts: 405Member
    Originally posted by Sketchit
    Originally posted by Manestream

    Also dissagree.

    They have to cover costs of running the servers, staff and other things. I however find that having a monthly subscription you then know how much that game is for the entire month of play. With so called F2P games (item shops) this cost is dramatically increased as always, at some stage you will be forced to have to use the item shop, although this is needed the cost can spiral to 3, 4, 5 or more times what a monthly subscription game does cost.

    I prefer the monthly subscription fee (i know where i stand with the game), and also having to purchase the game too. Money is tight at the present moment, but dont be fooled into thinking these F2P games are cheaper as they are not.

    Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 can cover the cost of the servers without a monthly fee.

    GW2 gets monthly content updates, with no monthly fee.

    The in-game shop is cosmetic only. It works.

    I didn't say make it F2P, I suggested B2P. Which is different.

    This is going to be a niche game with a population MUCH smaller than Guild Wars 1/2.  You do understand that, right?  Look at percentages of purchases versus actual players.  It's between 5-15% - I can even find the statistics if you want me too.  It simply won't work with a small populated niche game.

    My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.

    image

  • dkabibdkabib Rio de JaneiroPosts: 6Member

    DIsagree.

    I prefer paying 15 bucks a month and have a mature community, not a bunch of kids playing around.

     

    Also, MJ already said it's going to be Sub based, and that is one thing he isn't changing.

  • morfidonmorfidon BochniaPosts: 245Member
    @Skechit GW 2 has PvE. As the poster above noticed CU is gonna be PvP game. I don't care about cosmetic things. I will go there fight and have fun. That wouldn't allow them to develop as fast as they will with monthly fee subscription.
  • SketchitSketchit Williamsburg, VAPosts: 15Member
    Originally posted by Normandy7
    No thanks but thanks for the suggestion. Do not want to see anymore cash shops or f2p business models.

    Why? If gameplay isn't effected at all, and if it wasn't a pay 2 win cash shop, a shop that only sold cosmetic items?

  • SketchitSketchit Williamsburg, VAPosts: 15Member
    Originally posted by morfidon
    @Skechit GW 2 has PvE. As the poster above noticed CU is gonna be PvP game. I don't care about cosmetic things. I will go there fight and have fun. That wouldn't allow them to develop as fast as they will with monthly fee subscription.

    League of Legends is PvP only. You wouldn't think people would care about cosmetic stuff, but they do, and they buy it up. They can develop just as fast because hey - they're not building a pve world.

  • SketchitSketchit Williamsburg, VAPosts: 15Member
    Originally posted by dkabib

    DIsagree.

    I prefer paying 15 bucks a month and have a mature community, not a bunch of kids playing around.

     

    Also, MJ already said it's going to be Sub based, and that is one thing he isn't changing.

    You're right. World of Warcraft has the best community ever. It's because this is a game you're interested in, that the community will be a mature one.

  • Plastic-MetalPlastic-Metal Highland Heights, KYPosts: 405Member
    Originally posted by Sketchit
    Originally posted by morfidon
    @Skechit GW 2 has PvE. As the poster above noticed CU is gonna be PvP game. I don't care about cosmetic things. I will go there fight and have fun. That wouldn't allow them to develop as fast as they will with monthly fee subscription.

    League of Legends is PvP only. You wouldn't think people would care about cosmetic stuff, but they do, and they buy it up. They can develop just as fast because hey - they're not building a pve world.

    LoL is a completely different game design.  I'm growing tired of trying to be nice to people that continuously compare apples to oranges and act like everyone else is stupid for pointing it out.

    My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.

    image

  • DogblasterDogblaster PraguePosts: 491Member
    Originally posted by Sketchit

    Mark Jacobs and City State Entertainment:

    Please rethink the archaic idea of requiring people to pay a monthly fee to log on and play the game. We are living in a time where money is tight all around, and there are a lot of gamers that are fed up with the idea of paying for the Box Price of a game, and on top of that, paying a monthly fee every single month in order to login and play a game.

    I will take World of Warcraft’s model as an example. I had bought most of the game’s expansions, and paid the monthly fee for the game for several years. I had invested heavily into a character, and spent a lot of time revolved around the game. The sad part is that at the end of the month, you had as much right to play as somebody else who is just starting to play the game. It did not matter if you invested hundreds of dollars into the game – as soon as you stopped forking over cash, you lost ALL access to what you so heavily invested in already.

    Many MMORPGers use MMORPGs as a hobby. I know video games are indeed a large hobby of mine. A hobby is something you invest in. Could you imagine any other hobby where if you stopping shelling out money, somebody swooped down and took away everything you had put into it already? I cannot. I do recognize that a business needs money in order to continuously provide a service. This is not a charity, and I understand that completely. Hopefully, however, the developers and other players can understand my reasoning as well. Business models that are not flexible are a thing of the past. I’m not crying for CSE to make Camelot Unchained into a F2P game, but there should be some common ground here.

    I have a possible solution to this problem.

    1. A box price with no subscription fee.
    2.  In-Game shop that sells cosmetic items only. Look how successful League of Legends is – and they have no box price whatsoever.
    3. If you want to change to a different realm/server more than once, perhaps also charge as well.
    4. Offer a conversion of gold to In-Game shop currency much like GW2 [but do not do the reverse, as this enables a pay-to-win environment] does to continue to combat Gold Sellers. This allows people to buy stuff from the store without sinking in real-life cash
    5. Any new races that becomes available after the game releases into the in-game shop as well.
    6. Optional in game subscriptions for reduced price for in-game shop currency as well as veteran rewards for long-term subscribers – special cosmetic housing items, ect.

    I know people may look at this list and go, “Ewww, I HATE in-game shops. PERIOD!” But, please, look at what you’re gaining. You get consistent access to a game you’ve bought and paid for. You’re still on a equal playing field with everyone else. Gone would be the days of losing that character you played for so long, all because you’re done sinking money you’ve paid for a game ten times over. Please take my suggestions into consideration as you continue planning out the foundation of CU.

    I did stop reading here ... and just lol xD really?

    i prefer p2p mmorpg over ANY (I repeat.. ANY) f2p mmorpg. Always. 

    B2P is also good but cash shops are just bad ...

    So my vote is ... STAY P2P please :)

  • SiderasSideras HelsingborgPosts: 231Member
    Originally posted by dkabib

    DIsagree.

    I prefer paying 15 bucks a month and have a mature community, not a bunch of kids playing around.

     

    Also, MJ already said it's going to be Sub based, and that is one thing he isn't changing.

    15 bucks a month for a mature community, did WoW teach you nothing?

  • SketchitSketchit Williamsburg, VAPosts: 15Member
    Originally posted by Dogblaster
    Originally posted by Sketchit
     

    I did stop reading here ... and just lol xD really?

    i prefer b2p / p2p mmorpg over ANY (I repeat.. ANY) f2p mmorpg. Always.

    Please note that I suggested for a B2P game, not a f2p one. I agree with you.

  • SketchitSketchit Williamsburg, VAPosts: 15Member
    Originally posted by Plastic-Metal
    Originally posted by Sketchit
    Originally posted by morfidon
    @Skechit GW 2 has PvE. As the poster above noticed CU is gonna be PvP game. I don't care about cosmetic things. I will go there fight and have fun. That wouldn't allow them to develop as fast as they will with monthly fee subscription.

    League of Legends is PvP only. You wouldn't think people would care about cosmetic stuff, but they do, and they buy it up. They can develop just as fast because hey - they're not building a pve world.

    LoL is a completely different game design.  I'm growing tired of trying to be nice to people that continuously compare apples to oranges and act like everyone else is stupid for pointing it out.

    I guess you're right. Both are only games. With pvp only in mind. All I'm saying is that it is ignorant to say "LOLZ I'ma pvper, PVPERS DON'T WANT COSMETIC STUFF!"

    That is simply not true. Team Fortress 2's hats? LoL's cosmetic skins? WoW's noncombat pets and mounts?

  • DogblasterDogblaster PraguePosts: 491Member
    Originally posted by Sketchit
    Originally posted by Dogblaster
    Originally posted by Sketchit
     

    I did stop reading here ... and just lol xD really?

    i prefer b2p / p2p mmorpg over ANY (I repeat.. ANY) f2p mmorpg. Always.

    Please note that I suggested for a B2P game, not a f2p one. I agree with you.

    okey b2p without ingame shop ... then agreed.

    But tell me .. why is b2p with lame cash shop, buyable races, boosts, buyable currency better for you than p2p with everything opened and no cash shop for you? I dont understand this .. Why should I pay for new race or why should there be any boosts ?

     

  • BowbowDAoCBowbowDAoC Granby, QCPosts: 470Member
    Originally posted by Sketchit

    Mark Jacobs and City State Entertainment:

    Please rethink the archaic idea of requiring people to pay a monthly fee to log on and play the game. We are living in a time where money is tight all around, and there are a lot of gamers that are fed up with the idea of paying for the Box Price of a game, and on top of that, paying a monthly fee every single month in order to login and play a game.

    I will take World of Warcraft’s model as an example. I had bought most of the game’s expansions, and paid the monthly fee for the game for several years. I had invested heavily into a character, and spent a lot of time revolved around the game. The sad part is that at the end of the month, you had as much right to play as somebody else who is just starting to play the game. It did not matter if you invested hundreds of dollars into the game – as soon as you stopped forking over cash, you lost ALL access to what you so heavily invested in already.

    Many MMORPGers use MMORPGs as a hobby. I know video games are indeed a large hobby of mine. A hobby is something you invest in. Could you imagine any other hobby where if you stopping shelling out money, somebody swooped down and took away everything you had put into it already? I cannot. I do recognize that a business needs money in order to continuously provide a service. This is not a charity, and I understand that completely. Hopefully, however, the developers and other players can understand my reasoning as well. Business models that are not flexible are a thing of the past. I’m not crying for CSE to make Camelot Unchained into a F2P game, but there should be some common ground here.

    I have a possible solution to this problem.

    1. A box price with no subscription fee.
    2.  In-Game shop that sells cosmetic items only. Look how successful League of Legends is – and they have no box price whatsoever.
    3. If you want to change to a different realm/server more than once, perhaps also charge as well.
    4. Offer a conversion of gold to In-Game shop currency much like GW2 [but do not do the reverse, as this enables a pay-to-win environment] does to continue to combat Gold Sellers. This allows people to buy stuff from the store without sinking in real-life cash
    5. Any new races that becomes available after the game releases into the in-game shop as well.
    6. Optional in game subscriptions for reduced price in-game currency as well as veteran rewards for long-term subscribers – special cosmetic housing items, ect.

    I know people may look at this list and go, “Ewww, I HATE in-game shops. PERIOD!” But, please, look at what you’re gaining. You get consistent access to a game you’ve bought and paid for. You’re still on a equal playing field with everyone else. Gone would be the days of losing that character you played for so long, all because you’re done sinking money you’ve paid for a game ten times over. Please take my suggestions into consideration as you continue planning out the foundation of CU.

    I have to say i disagree with basically all that is said in there.

    No offense, but a good mmo requires revenues after th einital sale of the boxed game in order to continue to proide new stuffs, customers service etc.

    As for losing access to the game when you stop playing, totally understandable. whether oyu go play pool, go out and have a beer, go to movies, you name it, if one day you decide to stop going out to play pool, the pool table wont come to your place so you cvan play for free.

    then afterwards...

    1. box price with no subscriptiont fee

    Well, the way i think is this : you buy the box to play the game as it is when you buy it, subscription fee is to ensure what i mention earlier

    2.  In-Game shop that sells cosmetic items only. Look how successful League of Legends is – and they have no box price whatsoever.

    i'm speaking for myself, but i'd never put a single penny to buy anything cosmetic in an RvR oriented mmo, even if the game is F2P. i way prefer to give them 20$ a month and see the game evolve to something better every time there s an update, than using money to buy an "oh what a nice awesome looking armor" that doesnt give you anything more than be able to say " i have a nice awesome looking armor"

    3. If you want to change to a different realm/server more than once, perhaps also charge as well.

    that would be contrary to the realm pride MJ wants to promote. The only thing the liberty is doing imo is allowing people to swtich from loser side to winning side, or in some cases, MAYBE join friends on other side, but if that is the reason, you need to only change once, then the pirde kicks in again with your friends.

    4. Offer a conversion of gold to In-Game shop currency much like GW2 [but do not do the reverse, as this enables a pay-to-win environment] does to continue to combat Gold Sellers. This allows people to buy stuff from the store without sinking in real-life cash

    Since i totally disagree on the "store" concept, the F2P concept, i wont elaborate here, self-explanatory.

    5. Any new races that becomes available after the game releases into the in-game shop as well.

    Once again, i prefer to pay a sub based game and have access to everything that the game has to offer, than having to pay for everything added to the game.

    6. Optional in game subscriptions for reduced price in-game currency as well as veteran rewards for long-term subscribers – special cosmetic housing items, ect.

    Once again, same arguments stated earlier

     

    I know people may look at this list and go, “Ewww, I HATE in-game shops. PERIOD!” But, please, look at what you’re gaining. You get consistent access to a game you’ve bought and paid for. You’re still on a equal playing field with everyone else. Gone would be the days of losing that character you played for so long, all because you’re done sinking money you’ve paid for a game ten times over. Please take my suggestions into consideration as you continue planning out the foundation of CU.

    Having a sub based game also puts everyone equal, with EVERYTHING the game as to offer, even better, i think having to rely on shops exactly does the opposite...the ones with more money coulad have advantages of some sorts over less fortunate players.

     

    So...Thanks but no thanks.

    AS much as i want CU to come out, i'd never play it if it was F2P with in game store, or rather, i wouldnt play if didnt have a monthly sub fee.

     

     

    image

    Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
    Thurka on WAR

    image

  • GhavriggGhavrigg Halifax, NSPosts: 776Member Uncommon

    I'm getting so tired of people wanting F2P for every game. Just leave this alone, and play something else, please.

    But then, maybe I should finally just give up on the MMORPG genre with the way it's going. It's clear that P2P is never going to be as big as it used to be, and F2P is garbage.

    Oh wells.

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