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I just realized, I don't like MMORPGs any more!

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Comments

  • eddieg50eddieg50 Tolland, CTPosts: 1,614Member Uncommon
    MMO's are still  good, but when I compare them to games like Skyrim, dishonored, Dragon age, Baldurs Gate SOM, The Witcher 1 and 2, Mass effect, Dead space, Gothic 1 and 2, etc they just do not hold a candle.  I think most people today play MMO's for the social aspect because the game play is a C or a B at best, why play those when you can play an A game
  • OnomasOnomas Rock Hill, SCPosts: 1,128Member Uncommon

    Not narrow minded at all, mmorpgs were made to expand on rpgs to make them more than what rpgs are/were. Now they are blending the two again and dumbing down mmorpgs and making them nothing more than console rpgs. You are basicaly destroying what mmorpgs stand for. Not anrrow minded at all, narrow minded would be someone wanting their mmorpgs to play and act like their simplistic, linear, non-creative singleplayer games. 

     

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    Originally posted by eddieg50
    MMO's are still  good, but when I compare them to games like Skyrim, dishonored, Dragon age, Baldurs Gate SOM, The Witcher 1 and 2, Mass effect, Dead space, Gothic 1 and 2, etc they just do not hold a candle.  I think most people today play MMO's for the social aspect because the game play is a C or a B at best, why play those when you can play an A game

    I agree, all of those games are infinitely better than any MMO that has ever existed.  The problem is, games of that caliber are relatively rare and they don't last that long, I can play through most of those games in a few weeks at most, I can play through every game you listed in less than 6 months, what do I do then?  I think MMOs largely fill those gaps, they potentially give you the same general kind of experience without having to shell out $60 2-3 times a month.  However, you are right, the overwhelming majority of MMOs are really low quality and adding in thousands of idiots running around telling fart jokes doesn't help.

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
    Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
    Now Playing: None
    Hope: None

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,925Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by tixylix

    I mean I haven't liked a single one since 2005 and have been looking in the genre ever since. My point is however that the MMORPG genre has evolved into this WoW clone genre, 

    And thus where I stopped reading. Sorry but with that mentality I just really can't see you being a very good judge of games. For one, WoW can easily be cloned of games like Everquest in the regards you mentioned as it took a LOT (I mean A LOT) of aspects from that game, which in turn Everquest took elements from games like Ultima Online and so on and so on. We can go on and on.

     

    If your judgement of a game is based off doing 'tasks' then honestly, you probably don't want to play 90% of the games out there, not just MMOs but any game in general. Hell, even Simcity I skimmed by is basically objective base. Eve Online, hell, no offense but if your bored of games where you got to 'kill stuff' you basically entered into the territory of repetition.

     

    I think what is 'disatisfying' you is deeper root then the repetition factor as you seem to have played a lot of games that do just that, even to degrees far worst then most MMos. I think your just not satisfied with the Fantasy Setting rather then MMos. You still enjoy that repetition, you just don't like the fantasy worlds that many games push. Your looking for a modern/futuristic game instead of a traditional fantasy MMo setting, perhaps even with some sandbox elements being mixed in it. 

     

    You aren't sick of MMOs, you are sick of FANTASY games.

  • KaosProphetKaosProphet Edmonton, ABPosts: 379Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    But i do agree each person need to find their right game.

    That's funny, your posts usually imply the exact opposite.

  • eddieg50eddieg50 Tolland, CTPosts: 1,614Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by eddieg50
    MMO's are still  good, but when I compare them to games like Skyrim, dishonored, Dragon age, Baldurs Gate SOM, The Witcher 1 and 2, Mass effect, Dead space, Gothic 1 and 2, etc they just do not hold a candle.  I think most people today play MMO's for the social aspect because the game play is a C or a B at best, why play those when you can play an A game

    I agree, all of those games are infinitely better than any MMO that has ever existed.  The problem is, games of that caliber are relatively rare and they don't last that long, I can play through most of those games in a few weeks at most, I can play through every game you listed in less than 6 months, what do I do then?  I think MMOs largely fill those gaps, they potentially give you the same general kind of experience without having to shell out $60 2-3 times a month.  However, you are right, the overwhelming majority of MMOs are really low quality and adding in thousands of idiots running around telling fart jokes doesn't help.

        Yea the idiots in the chat do not help, although I like F2P when we had a sub it kept out many of the kids and nut cases. For the most part I just mentioned RPG's however I did leave out Oblivion and Morrowind, all the fallouts, neveer winter nights and all the spin offs, than you have the mods, etc, and then their are the sims and RTS the Civs, the total war series,the great shooters, games like Metro, batman, all the call of duties, ass creed series, crises, max payne, Boarderlands, half life and half life 2,vampire masq, bioshock, again all better than most mmo's. I am more casual than you so I am still working blissfully on all these great single player games

  • nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAPosts: 1,829Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by nate1980
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Loke666

    I have a feeling that the genre will be very different 5 years from now.

    The "genre" is already very different. I think people have lost sight of games that are like MMOs, but not quite, and MMO ideas going into other genre.

    If you use a strict definition of what a MMO is (by its traditional characteristics), then the genre will never really change, because you will just classify something new NOT a MMO, and thus outside of the genre. That is the problem here. People are too narrow.

    If you include games that are like MMOs, or similar to part of MMOs, or take MMO features, then the "genre" has been changing and expanding. Some examples:

    - ARPG with MMO featuers. Traditionally, ARPG are like MMOs anyway (focus on combat & progression). D3 add AH & crafting. PoE adds persistent zones. Personally i think these games are very close to combat centric MMOs, and don't evaluate them differently.

    - MOBA and other instanced based pvp games (like WOT, and Star Conflict) .. essentially takes MMO progression, arena combat, and focus on that.

    - "world war games" like PS2 .. essentially take the open world pvp idea and runs with it.

    - instanced pve games (DDO, vindictice, SD gundam ...) .. just do dungeon runs, and nothing else.

    - Destiny is going to be a new kind of online game with some MMO features (i.e. shared world shooter)

    You're missing the point of what makes a MMO a MMO. MMO is the acronym that symbolizes that this game will have a persistant world and that you'll be able to play with thousands of other players on the same server. That's all it takes to earn the MMO tag. Now, the RPG, FPS, RTS, and etc tags that go along with it hold the same requirements to hold them as their single player counterparts. 

    The problem many people on this site have is that developers are copying features from other games, making new games feel exactly alike older games. They're mistakingly thinking that those features is what defines a MMORPG, which is wrong. The term was defined well over a decade ago and hasn't changed. If developers want to breathe life into the MMO genre, they'll have to innovate and stop copying the same features from previous games.

    Oh i didn't miss the point. I just think the point is crap. Narrowly defining MMO like that *is* the problem. That is close minded, and not open to innovation and change.

    Personally i don't care if a game is a MMO by that narrow definition, or by any definition. If it is fun, i will play it.

    Look at what is successful and fun .. many are not MMOs by your definition, but have *some* MMO features. That is the future.

    Persistent world is not required to have fun. TO play with thousand of players at the same time is not required to have fun. I can match with as many players in D3, as in WOW but D3 is not a MMO. Why would i care if it is fun?

    Like music, games are split into genres for a reason. They are split so people can easily identify and group the type of games they like. Games that share a couple core features that define those types of games. It doesn't mean that other genres won't share some characteristics. MMO fans on this site get upset for a very good reason when games are being listed as MMO's when they're not. That's because they WANT an MMO, not a CO-OP game. 

    The definition of a MMO that the founding fathers of this genre used to describe it actually is very broad. That's only 2 requirements to belong to the MMO genre. Then of course you need to fill the requirements to be considered a FPS, RPG, RTS, or whatever the second part of the acronym you're game is fulfilling.

    You keep saying "MMO features" like MMO's are required to have x, y, z in them in order to be called an MMORPG. You and developers have the same problem. You see features that have become popular (and overcopied) in the MMORPG genre and you think every MMORPG is supposed to have those features (ie. quests, AH, PvP). That problem leads to the stagnation of a genre, because the same features are being used in every game. It leads to people getting bored. It's that lack of creativity and vision that developers, and apparently after talking to you, fans in this genre. Developers in the early days of the genre weren't like that. Just take a look at the early games: UO, AC, EQ, DAoC, and Shadowbane for instance. All were very different games, but held the two core requirements of being called a MMORPG: a persistant world, and the ability to play with thousands of other players on the same server.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Onomas

    Not narrow minded at all, mmorpgs were made to expand on rpgs to make them more than what rpgs are/were. Now they are blending the two again and dumbing down mmorpgs and making them nothing more than console rpgs. You are basicaly destroying what mmorpgs stand for. Not anrrow minded at all, narrow minded would be someone wanting their mmorpgs to play and act like their simplistic, linear, non-creative singleplayer games. 

     

    Listen to yourself. Refusal to accept new ideas *is* narrow minded.

    Borderland is much more creative than most MMO. Destiny is more creative than most MMOs. These games are doing something new .. in fact, blending elements.

    You are confusing bledning elements you don't like and "dumbing down".

    The future is great with so many innovations. WOT is a successful innovation that figures out you don't need a full MMO to play arena combat to have fun.

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by nate1980

    You keep saying "MMO features" like MMO's are required to have x, y, z in them in order to be called an MMORPG. You and developers have the same problem. You see features that have become popular (and overcopied) in the MMORPG genre and you think every MMORPG is supposed to have those features (ie. quests, AH, PvP). That problem leads to the stagnation of a genre, because the same features are being used in every game. It leads to people getting bored. It's that lack of creativity and vision that developers, and apparently after talking to you, fans in this genre. Developers in the early days of the genre weren't like that. Just take a look at the early games: UO, AC, EQ, DAoC, and Shadowbane for instance. All were very different games, but held the two core requirements of being called a MMORPG: a persistant world, and the ability to play with thousands of other players on the same server.

    Just take a look at LOL, WOT, D3 ... very different and successful games .. and all have some MMO features without the persistent world.

    Look at destiny. Look at defiance. All bring new stuff to the table, and not confined to traditional MMO thinking.

  • BahamutKaiserBahamutKaiser Hyattsville, MDPosts: 306Member

    I felt the same way like 5 years ago... actually longer.

    I played FFXI, right before the big WoW boom, I had been a FF follower since I discovered the series and went all the way back and forward with the series until 11, than, crap. I never cared for the MMO trinity, I felt the MMO gamespace was horribly lacking in basic gameplay already present in generations of console gaming, or even basic isometric online games like D2. I tried to keep up with FFXI just to keep with the series, even though I hated the gameplay, HATED WITH A PASSION, but I finally realized I didn't like it and it was boring. Even from a FF series perspective, the gameplay was sadly boring and honestly I always perfered more action oriented gameplay to begin with.

    So I spent years prowling forums to see if games could evolve into more enjoyable, I don't know, interesting gameplay, I ultimately avoided any new paid MMOs and played Guild Wars til free to play became a thing, than tried a variety of action oriented MMOs only to find the gameplay grindy and repetative, with little actual content, and predatory real money shops.

    I'm finally seeing games that appear to have approached what I was looking for, like a decade ago... but now I'm so withdrawn from online gameplay and so concerned about my time that I don't know if I can give anything a serious try.

    I've refined what I really want out of a game after all this time, and while I'm willing to play something of alternate interest for a few dozen hours in typical console games n such, if I consider spending thousands and thousands of hours on an MMO like I did in FFXI... I pretty much only want to play something that specifically includes my tastes, among whatever else is available in the game...

    Anyway... I think there are a lot of games out now and upcoming that are really pioneering better gameplay and intelligent design... perhaps they may entertain you where others have faultered.  As for me... I'm gonna dauble in some new games if I ever find the time... but I'm expencting to be disappointed... Online games in general, of all sorts, have been woefully dissapointing to me these days.

    Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes.
    That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.

  • PsychowPsychow SF Giants Territory, CAPosts: 1,784Member

    The Good Old Days:

     

    Customers: $$$$$$ (The Vets)

     

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     

    New MMOs:

     

    New Customers: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

     

    Ex-customers:  $$$$$$ (The Old Biter Vets)

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    Originally posted by Psychow

    The Good Old Days:

     

    Customers: $$$$$$ (The Vets)

     

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     

    New MMOs:

     

    New Customers: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

     

    Ex-customers:  $$$$$$ (The Old Biter Vets)

    ^^^ THIS! ^^^

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
    Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
    Now Playing: None
    Hope: None

  • nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAPosts: 1,829Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by nate1980
     

    Maybe because MMORPG's are something they are passionate about and this is their chosen hobby? A hobby that perhaps was changed from something they loved into something they can hardly recognize? Believe it or not, developers read gaming forums to keep tabs of what people are raving for. If everyone just quit the genre and never looked back, the developers won't know what players are looking for in a MMORPG. It's better to provide constructive feedback for developers and discuss new ideas, than to just quit and walk away.

    Devs are more likely to notice recent big hits like WOT, than ranting on forums, who want to go back to 10+ year old tried-and-failed ideas.

     

    True, the failure of SWTOR sent a larger message than any complaining on forums would. I'm not sure I'd still play a MMO made like the old school ones. I'm 10 years or more older now, and enjoy playing games in < 3 hour increments. However, there are some old ideas that just worked well in the MMORPG genre that I'd either like to see again, or like to improved upon.

  • KaosProphetKaosProphet Edmonton, ABPosts: 379Member
    Originally posted by nate1980
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by nate1980
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Loke666

    I have a feeling that the genre will be very different 5 years from now.

    The "genre" is already very different. I think people have lost sight of games that are like MMOs, but not quite, and MMO ideas going into other genre.

    If you use a strict definition of what a MMO is (by its traditional characteristics), then the genre will never really change, because you will just classify something new NOT a MMO, and thus outside of the genre. That is the problem here. People are too narrow.

    If you include games that are like MMOs, or similar to part of MMOs, or take MMO features, then the "genre" has been changing and expanding. Some examples:

    - ARPG with MMO featuers. Traditionally, ARPG are like MMOs anyway (focus on combat & progression). D3 add AH & crafting. PoE adds persistent zones. Personally i think these games are very close to combat centric MMOs, and don't evaluate them differently.

    - MOBA and other instanced based pvp games (like WOT, and Star Conflict) .. essentially takes MMO progression, arena combat, and focus on that.

    - "world war games" like PS2 .. essentially take the open world pvp idea and runs with it.

    - instanced pve games (DDO, vindictice, SD gundam ...) .. just do dungeon runs, and nothing else.

    - Destiny is going to be a new kind of online game with some MMO features (i.e. shared world shooter)

    You're missing the point of what makes a MMO a MMO. MMO is the acronym that symbolizes that this game will have a persistant world and that you'll be able to play with thousands of other players on the same server. That's all it takes to earn the MMO tag. Now, the RPG, FPS, RTS, and etc tags that go along with it hold the same requirements to hold them as their single player counterparts. 

    The problem many people on this site have is that developers are copying features from other games, making new games feel exactly alike older games. They're mistakingly thinking that those features is what defines a MMORPG, which is wrong. The term was defined well over a decade ago and hasn't changed. If developers want to breathe life into the MMO genre, they'll have to innovate and stop copying the same features from previous games.

    Oh i didn't miss the point. I just think the point is crap. Narrowly defining MMO like that *is* the problem. That is close minded, and not open to innovation and change.

    Personally i don't care if a game is a MMO by that narrow definition, or by any definition. If it is fun, i will play it.

    Look at what is successful and fun .. many are not MMOs by your definition, but have *some* MMO features. That is the future.

    Persistent world is not required to have fun. TO play with thousand of players at the same time is not required to have fun. I can match with as many players in D3, as in WOW but D3 is not a MMO. Why would i care if it is fun?

    Like music, games are split into genres for a reason. They are split so people can easily identify and group the type of games they like. Games that share a couple core features that define those types of games. It doesn't mean that other genres won't share some characteristics. MMO fans on this site get upset for a very good reason when games are being listed as MMO's when they're not. That's because they WANT an MMO, not a CO-OP game. 

    Note: some people do enjoy both, and there's nothing wrong with that.

    But when someone insists on calling the co-op games MMOs, I have to wonder about them.  It just reeks of seeking some kind of validation for their preferences that shouldn't be necessary.

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    Originally posted by nate198

     

    True, the failure of SWTOR sent a larger message than any complaining on forums would. I'm not sure I'd still play a MMO made like the old school ones. I'm 10 years or more older now, and enjoy playing games in < 3 hour increments. However, there are some old ideas that just worked well in the MMORPG genre that I'd either like to see again, or like to improved upon.

    Like what?  I can't think of anything that actually worked well that has totally gone away, in fact, the ideas that have gone away have largely been the ones that MMO evolution has selected against, they died for a reason.

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
    Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
    Now Playing: None
    Hope: None

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by KaosProphet
    Originally posted by nate1980
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by nate1980
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Loke666

    I have a feeling that the genre will be very different 5 years from now.

    The "genre" is already very different. I think people have lost sight of games that are like MMOs, but not quite, and MMO ideas going into other genre.

    If you use a strict definition of what a MMO is (by its traditional characteristics), then the genre will never really change, because you will just classify something new NOT a MMO, and thus outside of the genre. That is the problem here. People are too narrow.

    If you include games that are like MMOs, or similar to part of MMOs, or take MMO features, then the "genre" has been changing and expanding. Some examples:

    - ARPG with MMO featuers. Traditionally, ARPG are like MMOs anyway (focus on combat & progression). D3 add AH & crafting. PoE adds persistent zones. Personally i think these games are very close to combat centric MMOs, and don't evaluate them differently.

    - MOBA and other instanced based pvp games (like WOT, and Star Conflict) .. essentially takes MMO progression, arena combat, and focus on that.

    - "world war games" like PS2 .. essentially take the open world pvp idea and runs with it.

    - instanced pve games (DDO, vindictice, SD gundam ...) .. just do dungeon runs, and nothing else.

    - Destiny is going to be a new kind of online game with some MMO features (i.e. shared world shooter)

    You're missing the point of what makes a MMO a MMO. MMO is the acronym that symbolizes that this game will have a persistant world and that you'll be able to play with thousands of other players on the same server. That's all it takes to earn the MMO tag. Now, the RPG, FPS, RTS, and etc tags that go along with it hold the same requirements to hold them as their single player counterparts. 

    The problem many people on this site have is that developers are copying features from other games, making new games feel exactly alike older games. They're mistakingly thinking that those features is what defines a MMORPG, which is wrong. The term was defined well over a decade ago and hasn't changed. If developers want to breathe life into the MMO genre, they'll have to innovate and stop copying the same features from previous games.

    Oh i didn't miss the point. I just think the point is crap. Narrowly defining MMO like that *is* the problem. That is close minded, and not open to innovation and change.

    Personally i don't care if a game is a MMO by that narrow definition, or by any definition. If it is fun, i will play it.

    Look at what is successful and fun .. many are not MMOs by your definition, but have *some* MMO features. That is the future.

    Persistent world is not required to have fun. TO play with thousand of players at the same time is not required to have fun. I can match with as many players in D3, as in WOW but D3 is not a MMO. Why would i care if it is fun?

    Like music, games are split into genres for a reason. They are split so people can easily identify and group the type of games they like. Games that share a couple core features that define those types of games. It doesn't mean that other genres won't share some characteristics. MMO fans on this site get upset for a very good reason when games are being listed as MMO's when they're not. That's because they WANT an MMO, not a CO-OP game. 

    Note: some people do enjoy both, and there's nothing wrong with that.

    But when someone insists on calling the co-op games MMOs, I have to wonder about them.  It just reeks of seeking some kind of validation for their preferences that shouldn't be necessary.

    Who does that? At least not me. If you read my post, i am very clear about games that are not MMOs, but with MMO features (or vice versa). In fact, my gaming is not restricted by MMOs. And in fact, many co-op games are much more fun (to me) than MMOs.

  • ArclanArclan Chicago, ILPosts: 1,494Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Cephus404

    Originally posted by Psychow The Good Old Days:   Customers: $$$$$$ (The Vets)   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------   New MMOs:   New Customers: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$   Ex-customers:  $$$$$$ (The Old Biter Vets)
    ^^^ THIS! ^^^

    Oh yes the MMO industry is thriving. Don't let the mass layoffs, downsizings, and bankruptcies fool ya. It's all green on my screen...

    Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
    In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Arclan

     


    Originally posted by Cephus404

    Originally posted by Psychow The Good Old Days:   Customers: $$$$$$ (The Vets)   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------   New MMOs:   New Customers: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$   Ex-customers:  $$$$$$ (The Old Biter Vets)
    ^^^ THIS! ^^^

     

    Oh yes the MMO industry is thriving. Don't let the mass layoffs, downsizings, and bankruptcies fool ya. It's all green on my screen...

    What industry has no layoff and stuff?

    And yeah .. MMO industry is thriving. Spending has increased 14% in the US from 2011 to 2012. I bet most industries would love that kind of growth.

    http://www.newzoo.com/infographics/the-global-mmo-market-sizing-and-seizing-opportunities/

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Psychow

    The Good Old Days:

     

    Customers: $$$$$$ (The Vets)

     

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     

    New MMOs:

     

    New Customers: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

     

    Ex-customers:  $$$$$$ (The Old Biter Vets)

    That actually deserves an infographic, sort of.

    Only 22 million vs about 4 million, though. If 4 million is 6$..."new" customers is 33.

    $$$$$$ vs $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    (Naturally all figures are wildly inaccurate estimates)

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    Originally posted by Arclan

     


    Originally posted by Cephus404

    Originally posted by Psychow The Good Old Days:   Customers: $$$$$$ (The Vets)   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------   New MMOs:   New Customers: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$   Ex-customers:  $$$$$$ (The Old Biter Vets)
    ^^^ THIS! ^^^

     

    Oh yes the MMO industry is thriving. Don't let the mass layoffs, downsizings, and bankruptcies fool ya. It's all green on my screen...

    Because MMOs are the only genre that has mass layoffs, downsizings and bankruptcies, right?  We're in the middle of an economic downturn, remember?  Most entertainment industries are suffering right now.

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
    Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
    Now Playing: None
    Hope: None

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member

    It seems as though there is a process of evolution going on, but it's not clear that the games that come out will always be simplistic.

    The audience got bigger, and a certain amount of that audience will look for more in depth games to replace the ones they started with. The trend isn't guaranteed to move toward pedestrian games perpetually though.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • KaosProphetKaosProphet Edmonton, ABPosts: 379Member
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Psychow

    The Good Old Days:

     

    Customers: $$$$$$ (The Vets)

     

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     

    New MMOs:

     

    New Customers: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

     

    Ex-customers:  $$$$$$ (The Old Biter Vets)

    That actually deserves an infographic, sort of.

    Only 22 million vs about 4 million, though. If 4 million is 6$..."new" customers is 33.

    $$$$$$ vs $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    And just for outside comparison, Cow-clickers in 'social media' games:

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by nate198

     

    True, the failure of SWTOR sent a larger message than any complaining on forums would. I'm not sure I'd still play a MMO made like the old school ones. I'm 10 years or more older now, and enjoy playing games in < 3 hour increments. However, there are some old ideas that just worked well in the MMORPG genre that I'd either like to see again, or like to improved upon.

    Like what?  I can't think of anything that actually worked well that has totally gone away, in fact, the ideas that have gone away have largely been the ones that MMO evolution has selected against, they died for a reason.

    There is some truth to what you are saying. But the reason for some of those features going away was sometimes a cost/benefit analysis based on dev time in building the game versus end product as received by users. A myopic approach has yielded results lately that are ungood for the same bean counters.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    Originally posted by ignore_me
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by nate198

     

    True, the failure of SWTOR sent a larger message than any complaining on forums would. I'm not sure I'd still play a MMO made like the old school ones. I'm 10 years or more older now, and enjoy playing games in < 3 hour increments. However, there are some old ideas that just worked well in the MMORPG genre that I'd either like to see again, or like to improved upon.

    Like what?  I can't think of anything that actually worked well that has totally gone away, in fact, the ideas that have gone away have largely been the ones that MMO evolution has selected against, they died for a reason.

    There is some truth to what you are saying. But the reason for some of those features going away was sometimes a cost/benefit analysis based on dev time in building the game versus end product as received by users. A myopic approach has yielded results lately that are ungood for the same bean counters.

    I don't really buy that.  Developers take the most popular elements and spend the most time on them because they are popular and will draw in the most paying players.  That's how business works.  What you're really saying is that developers don't waste their time on unpopular ideas and I agree with you.  Why?  Because they're unpopular!

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
    Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
    Now Playing: None
    Hope: None

  • BurntvetBurntvet Baltimore, MDPosts: 2,950Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Cephus404

    Originally posted by ignore_me
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by nate198   True, the failure of SWTOR sent a larger message than any complaining on forums would. I'm not sure I'd still play a MMO made like the old school ones. I'm 10 years or more older now, and enjoy playing games in < 3 hour increments. However, there are some old ideas that just worked well in the MMORPG genre that I'd either like to see again, or like to improved upon.

    Like what?  I can't think of anything that actually worked well that has totally gone away, in fact, the ideas that have gone away have largely been the ones that MMO evolution has selected against, they died for a reason.

    There is some truth to what you are saying. But the reason for some of those features going away was sometimes a cost/benefit analysis based on dev time in building the game versus end product as received by users. A myopic approach has yielded results lately that are ungood for the same bean counters.

    I don't really buy that.  Developers take the most popular elements and spend the most time on them because they are popular and will draw in the most paying players.  That's how business works.  What you're really saying is that developers don't waste their time on unpopular ideas and I agree with you.  Why?  Because they're unpopular!

     

    There is also such a thing as over-saturation in a given market segment. The themepark segment is overloaded. The casual, click and go, get right into the game with no thought has been done to death. If game makers want players to stay with a title for more than 1 month, there should be enough depth to ensure that, instead of instance grinds and gear grinds. Now, the market segment that wants a deeper, virtual world type of experience is almost unserved. Usually, the hardest thing in business is to identify the market segment in which you can be successful. In the MMO space, it seems to be the other way around: the market opportunity is there, but no one wants to take it.
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