Nah .. they are more like bitter whiners who don't like anything.
That would be the new generation who whines every time a class is unbalanced, who whines when they need to travel 2 feet, who whines when they have 5 minuted downtime, who whines when there is a death penalty, who whines you need to group, etc
Originally posted by WhiteLantern Really? I get the exact opposite feeling from these boards.
I think this board represents a vocal minority.
Of that, I have no doubt.
Actually, they more represent what is known in business as "enthusiasts", and your enthusiasts are often the people start and lead trends. Smart businesses pay close attention to these people.
Nah .. they are more like bitter whiners who don't like anything.
You keep telling yourself that, and you can pretend the current MMO market isn't moving in the exact direction the "whiners" on this site have been saying it would for the past 4 years or so.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Originally posted by WhiteLantern Really? I get the exact opposite feeling from these boards.
I think this board represents a vocal minority.
Vocal minority on both fronts or vocal minority as in those who disagree with me? for example 'WOW ruined MMOS and everything is just a casual fest these days and if you disagree with what i say you are vocal minority'.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Originally posted by WhiteLantern Really? I get the exact opposite feeling from these boards.
I think this board represents a vocal minority.
Of that, I have no doubt.
Actually, they more represent what is known in business as "enthusiasts", and your enthusiasts are often the people start and lead trends. Smart businesses pay close attention to these people.
Nah .. they are more like bitter whiners who don't like anything.
You keep telling yourself that, and you can pretend the current MMO market isn't moving in the exact direction the "whiners" on this site have been saying it would for the past 4 years or so.
Im one of those guys And i love the fact so many sandbox style games are coming along this next few years
To be honest, Alot of those things are situational. for instance
"I want to be able to turn off chat" Example of when its a good thing, Barrens chat.
"i Want mini games galore" When you hit max level you get a choice of either playing once a week or Re rolling. For the themepark atleast, Sandbox doesnt really have that issue
"Instantly Teleported to Dungeon" If your gonna have a LFG tool, you might aswell have this.
"Character Save the Universe" I've come to the conclusion that the only good thing SWTOR did in my opinion was the reroll factor. Honestly i've never gotten 2 characters to max on the same account, its boring to do the same thing over again. Atleast with SWTOR, you have a new (and possibly good or bad) Story to tide you over abit.
"Massive World" Some games having the massive seamless world is a great thing, some games can benefit from it greatly. Others cant, This all comes down to Lore. WoW is a world in a constant state of war on multiple fronts with multiple enemies. TSW is a World where bad shit is happening in select areas. The planet your on is also earth. If you were to correctly Code earth into the game it would take Days if not months in order to get anywhere. Lets not even think about the file size.
"stand there and swing my sword" i agree with how annoying this is. However less and less companies are actually doing this anymore.
The others well... i agree with being dumb responses. This also only really applies to Themepark, Sandbox plays by its own rules.
Because i can. I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out. Logic every gamers worst enemy.
Originally posted by WhiteLantern Really? I get the exact opposite feeling from these boards.
I think this board represents a vocal minority.
Vocal minority on both fronts or these people are considered vocal minority only when they disagree with what you say?
I'm saying that people who want meaningful travel, forced grouping, death penalties, class unbalance, downtime, are a minority, even though I'm one of them,
Vanguard was an eye-opener for me, the first game after Everquest that had some unbalance in classes, that had a death penalty and meaningful travel.
What did half of the players do, whine non-stop to make it eaiser until developer caved right at launch
Even though every person knew going into Vanguard that it would involve having to walk long distances, still half of the playerbase whined.
Can't wait to see thousands of WoW players give their opinion on EQNext.
Current MMO are nothing like they were before, everything starting with WoW completely changed MMO into a casual gaming experience, if I started with WoW instead of EQ I would have probably have the same idea as them about MMO.
Some thing are better, but so much is worse too.
U serious about EQNext?? You wan't see thousands of wow player posting on game like EQ, maybe some better title like TESO could be interesting for wow players but EQ arghhh...
Going to reply to a few posts all in one. I'm lazy
Originally posted by Calerxes I find it ironic that instant teleportation was in EQ at release and they also expanded it to be accessible by all players in the Planes of Power expac in 2002 but WoW only had that latter type of instant teleport when Burning Crusade was launched in 2006 and only in Shatrath, all other transport was from Bat, Griffon, underground railway and Zepplin. Though my Lock could, with the aid of others, pull players to outside dungeons from anywhere in the world.
Yes, EQ did, but that was limited to 2 (out of 14) character classes (Wizards and Druids), which players had to "beg" the service from, and one teleportation ability to go wherever a player set their "soulbind" at (usually a major city). Dieing cost a player too much to use it as a fast travel option. Today's fast travel is simply clicking on a way point for a few copper or dieing. There is no interaction with other players (the multi-player part of MMO) involved, which is why I dislike fast travel today.
@WhiteLantern: Yes, there are plenty of "MMOs today SUCK!" threads. And each and every one gets refuted by many, many posters. I think us "disgruntled" players have nothing to play in the MMO genre to keep us busy, so we post and moan here Maybe things would quiet down if there was a MMORPG worth playing?
@Axehilt: I agree with your distinction between boring and fun. Since almost everyone defines these aspects differently, the majority wins. Many players find being lost the most terrible gameplay catastrophe while a few others make the most of it and find adventure. Many players cannot get enough of combat. If they fight every 25 yards, they are happy while a few others would like to be able to pick and choose a little more when they fight. Some players can spend hours decorating a home for their player to live in, in their online world, while many others find that the most boring and wasteful aspect of fun wondering why developers don't spend those resources on making more monsters to fight.
@Wraithone: I agree that a game like would sell millions They already have
@nariusseldon: Yes, I am a "bitter whiner" because players who never liked MMOROGs in the first place have taken away the virtual world because they find them boring and "un-fun." We have no replacement for them. Give me a game with a real virtual (can I use those two words in succession?) world and I'll quit complaining I wonder what you'd think if your favorite Mystery genre books all of sudden went to Romance novels genre with very few Mystery books ever written by so-so writers...
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Can't wait to see thousands of WoW players give their opinion on EQNext.
Current MMO are nothing like they were before, everything starting with WoW completely changed MMO into a casual gaming experience, if I started with WoW instead of EQ I would have probably have the same idea as them about MMO.
Some thing are better, but so much is worse too.
U serious about EQNext?? You wan't see thousands of wow player posting on game like EQ, maybe some better title like TESO could be interesting for wow players but EQ arghhh...
EQ2 follows the WOW formula and was even changed to the effect after success of WOW. You make it sound as if EQ players are so drasticaly different from that of WOW players.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Originally posted by ellobo29 When I read the forums...... i say to myself.. "AAAHHHHhhhhh the internets... where everybody and there pet gerbil thinks that they have an opinion AND THAT IT MATTERS FOR SOMETHING....
Including you?... ^^
Opinions are like belly buttons, everyone has one. ^^ I suspect that someone who came up with a game with many of those traits would find a good sized audience.
Players want a good game. MMORPGs can be good games.
Nothing about that implies travel has to be tedious. Tedious travel is simply bad design.
Nothing about it implies combat has to be stationary. The only thing implied is a light (at best) twitch skill component, since that's a defining trait of RPGs and part of what makes them successful with their demographic.
Acrobatic fullplate is pretty rarely requested, but certainly I'd have a lot less fun in WOW if I wasn't able to charge and heroic leap to zip all over like a maniac. If you took it away without replacing it with an equally deep and skill-rewarding set of gameplay mechanics, you'd be net negative in terms of fun.
Instant dungeon teleport? Again, tedious travel is bad design.
Instancing to allow the world to show impact is great, but obviously can't be the entire experience or must remain a shared MMO experience (as with phasing and cross-realm PVE areas.) Honestly the instanced parts of MMORPGs feel far more "RPG" than the non-instanced ones.
Saving the universe is perfectly fine if it fits the game's aesthetic. The aesthetic of doing heroic things appeals to people more than being a shit-covered peasant...for some reason.
Mandatory downtime is usually bad design, but depends on how it's paced. The ideal is to let the player be in control: it's up to them whether to pursue content nonstop or sit in town socializing.
All you have to have to be an MMORPG is a shared persistent online world with lots of players, some form of progression, some form of narrative, and not too much twitch.
When you say bad design, don't you really mean "in my opinion"? I view things differently.. To me any game that allows instant travel to anywhere in the world by anyone is too unbelievable even in a fantasy world.. IMO, Original EQ had the best form of travel for players.. Combat should be somewhat stationary.. A person in full plate leaping 30 feet while doing 20 somersaults is just silly.. Instancing is bad design IMO.. I play mmo's to be in a social world, whereas instancing just puts you into private rooms.. You might as well just go play Xbox then.. Everyone is a superhero? Really? This is more console game thinking of everyone needs to be a hero.. When I first stated playing AD&D in the 80's I did not play it to be a HERO.. I was just a normal run of the mill druid having fund with friends.. This didn't change when I started EQ in 1999.. I was no hero and had no desire to be a hero.. Everyone I played with was pretty much the same way.. Manditory downtime such as meditating, town trips for food/drink and supplies was great.. I remember teaching languages which was a good concept..
From where I sit.. the new MMO genre is just too selfish and demanding, and have little clue how to be normal.. It seems everyone wants to be "special"..... oooooof
I don't really mean "in my opinion" because I also wouldn't call Physical Torture in a game bad design "in my opinion", because there's a chance of somebody wanting that too. But I understand (a) the pysiological and psychological reasons players play games and (b) what games have done well over the last 25 years. So I can safely say it's bad game design without quantifying "in my opinion".
Non-gameplay, tedious travel is simply not why players choose to play games. They play games because their brains delight in learning, and games offer a huge spread of new patterns to solve. Tedious travel is therefore not very nutricious food for their brains to consume, because the patterns involved are minimal (and mostly revolve around learning how to avoid killing oneself on long, tedious trips; but another lesson they're capable of teaching is "don't enter into a long, tedious trip if another vacation destination is right at your doorstep!")
This is not about console vs. PC gaming. MMORPGs without a focus on fun are solitary games. They're alone amongst games designed fun-first.
They're even alone amongst MMORPGs, because the most successful MMORPGs are fun-first designs.
Overwhelmingly PC gaming is successful for the same fun-focused reasons as any other game, console or otherwise.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Originally posted by WhiteLantern Really? I get the exact opposite feeling from these boards.
I think this board represents a vocal minority.
Absolutely.
Most people play whatever game interests them and they keep their mouth shut about it.
Unhappy people come here to complain because they have a need to infect other people with their unhappiness.
OCD people come here to start fights because, well...that's what OCD people do.
Teens (physically and mentally) come here to try and shock people with their words, mainly because their parents never really gave a shit when they tried to shock them with 666 tattooed on their foreheads and Aleister Crowley books strewn about their rooms. You can tell those people by their handles.
It all boils down to the fact that gaming forums are the trailer parks and meth houses of the genre.
It is fun watching (and sometimes pushing along) the train-wreck, however. :P
I want a game to be fun and challenging NOT tedious and time consuming.
I want options to the game..I want mini-games( gambling , racing, ect)
I want Large scale PVP instances (like AV)
I want it to be a simple affair to ignore people( not a big fan of MMORPG folk)
Seriously you made and knocked over a strawman. The features that many of the "hardcore" people want , I want no part of , even if it is free. Companies are trying to enlarge the Market place NOT appeal to their customer base. They are offering what features they THINK ultra casual gamers and NON-gamers want. They are also trying to get causals to use the parts of the game that traditionaly only hardcore players want to use, hence all the conviences. They are trying to change the casual into a hardcore player. They want everyone to be a dungeon crawler, a lover of tedium, a jumper of hoops.
@WhiteLantern: Yes, there are plenty of "MMOs today SUCK!" threads. And each and every one gets refuted by many, many posters. I think us "disgruntled" players have nothing to play in the MMO genre to keep us busy, so we post and moan here Maybe things would quiet down if there was a MMORPG worth playing?
My response to that is, if there is nothing you want to play, GO FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO DO! That's one thing that bugs me to no end, people who sit here with tens of thousands of posts, who would be better served by finding something else to do where they're actually having fun, instead of pretending that someone owes them an MMO to play.
@WhiteLantern: Yes, there are plenty of "MMOs today SUCK!" threads. And each and every one gets refuted by many, many posters. I think us "disgruntled" players have nothing to play in the MMO genre to keep us busy, so we post and moan here Maybe things would quiet down if there was a MMORPG worth playing?
My response to that is, if there is nothing you want to play, GO FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO DO! That's one thing that bugs me to no end, people who sit here with tens of thousands of posts, who would be better served by finding something else to do where they're actually having fun, instead of pretending that someone owes them an MMO to play.
@WhiteLantern: Yes, there are plenty of "MMOs today SUCK!" threads. And each and every one gets refuted by many, many posters. I think us "disgruntled" players have nothing to play in the MMO genre to keep us busy, so we post and moan here Maybe things would quiet down if there was a MMORPG worth playing?
My response to that is, if there is nothing you want to play, GO FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO DO! That's one thing that bugs me to no end, people who sit here with tens of thousands of posts, who would be better served by finding something else to do where they're actually having fun, instead of pretending that someone owes them an MMO to play.
Nobody does. Get over yourself.
Says the guy who spends his time arguing with them. For what purpose - to derail any chance of an MMO made for someone other than himself?
It really is ridiculous. Realisticly we all want our own fun games. But nobody is being understanding to someone else for liking something different. The modern era gamers are no less hypocritical and jaded than the other side.
It really is ridiculous. Realisticly we all want our own fun games. But nobody is being understanding to someone else for liking something different. The modern era gamers are no less hypocritical and jaded than the other side.
Earlier I pointed out this wasn't a console gamer vs. PC gamer issue. Seems like I have to take the time to point out that it's also not a Modern Gamer vs. Old Gamer issue.
See my earlier post though, as it's all the exact same reasons. Early PC games were played not because they hid fun behind needless timesinks and minimal gameplay, but because the gameplay itself was fun and worth playing. So older gamers wanted the exact same thing modern gamers want: a fun game that doesn't jerk them around.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
@WhiteLantern: Yes, there are plenty of "MMOs today SUCK!" threads. And each and every one gets refuted by many, many posters. I think us "disgruntled" players have nothing to play in the MMO genre to keep us busy, so we post and moan here Maybe things would quiet down if there was a MMORPG worth playing?
My response to that is, if there is nothing you want to play, GO FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO DO! That's one thing that bugs me to no end, people who sit here with tens of thousands of posts, who would be better served by finding something else to do where they're actually having fun, instead of pretending that someone owes them an MMO to play.
Nobody does. Get over yourself.
Says the guy who spends his time arguing with them. For what purpose - to derail any chance of an MMO made for someone other than himself?
Get over your own self.
Of course, I'm very clear that I don't play MMOs and I probably spend less than 10 minutes a day here if I'm really bored.
No we are a minority, people who watch love connection and live in a world of glazed over mediocrity are the ones the investors that fund development companies are targeting
Why, because they are glazed over with mediocrity.
Kinda like we all want to have a healthy weight, but boy that fat hamburger at the fast food joint for $4.99 dosent help......unless of course I become extreme and post comments about it somewhere, where then you will probably be told to shut up by your stupid non thinking peers to stop being a whiner.....
who are probably fat
and stupid
If it means anything, I am a non-TV-owning vegetarian. Okay, that makes me some other insult instead, I get it.
(PS) OMG, you idiots actually pay $4.99 for a burger, over the pond? Here, we just kill a horse (apparently), mash it up and it's less than £2!
(PPS) I want to play an MMORPG but... find that the alpha/beta forums are so filled with people waving about the stamped IQ card of a tree stump that I don't bother.
Addendum: I'd much rather see my £2 galloping over some finish line or other, having never been whipped
My response to that is, if there is nothing you want to play, GO FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO DO!
Don't we all at least find fault with the games we play? Are we not allowed to express our feelings on them? Is this mmorpgFUCKINGSUNSHINEONLY.com?
That's one thing that bugs me to no end, people who sit here with tens of thousands of posts, who would be better served by finding something else to do
Erm... what are you doing then? tens of thousands of posts? Man, you need a hobby.
where they're actually having fun, instead of pretending that someone owes them an MMO to play.
Nobody does. Get over yourself.
Who says we're not all having fun? I'd make the utterly outrageous suggestion that those spreading love and peace, hate and bitchiness or just sarcasm and humour are all, in their own way, having fun.
And fwiw, anyone paying for, or investing time in, an MMO, deserves an MMO.
Take a look in the mirror some time. And get over that.
MMO means different things to different people. For some it is simple as having an environment where people come together and enjoy themselves.
RPG also means different things to different people. For some people it is more literally about playing a role, for other it is more about the systems we are used to such as leveling up, gear progression, cusomization, talent trees etc...
When you throw those 2 together you have just about any combination of the above 2 you can imagination, and add to that all the bias from past experience with old school MMORPGs.("EQ was like this therefore all MMORPGs must be like this or they aren't MMORPGs" opinions)
Frankly I think there is room for all kinds of MMORPGs for all kinds of different gamers. From people who want hardcore death and corpse looting rules, to people who just want to log in have fun, make a little progress and talk to friends in an hour of free time.
Originally posted by jocieB Originally posted by RobokappOriginally posted by jocieBIf it means anything, I am a non-TV-owning vegetarian. (PS) OMG, you idiots actually pay $4.99 for a burger, over the pond? Here, we just kill a horse (apparently), mash it up and it's less than £2!
one can not explain why he loves bacon.you will never know if you never try.
grrr. Pig is the sole reason I could revert. I think, from what I can gather, that is the general "veggie community" opinion too
No "fake bacon" equivalent?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Comments
That would be the new generation who whines every time a class is unbalanced, who whines when they need to travel 2 feet, who whines when they have 5 minuted downtime, who whines when there is a death penalty, who whines you need to group, etc
You keep telling yourself that, and you can pretend the current MMO market isn't moving in the exact direction the "whiners" on this site have been saying it would for the past 4 years or so.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Vocal minority on both fronts or vocal minority as in those who disagree with me? for example 'WOW ruined MMOS and everything is just a casual fest these days and if you disagree with what i say you are vocal minority'.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Im one of those guys
And i love the fact so many sandbox style games are coming along this next few years 
To be honest, Alot of those things are situational. for instance
"I want to be able to turn off chat" Example of when its a good thing, Barrens chat.
"i Want mini games galore" When you hit max level you get a choice of either playing once a week or Re rolling. For the themepark atleast, Sandbox doesnt really have that issue
"Instantly Teleported to Dungeon" If your gonna have a LFG tool, you might aswell have this.
"Character Save the Universe" I've come to the conclusion that the only good thing SWTOR did in my opinion was the reroll factor. Honestly i've never gotten 2 characters to max on the same account, its boring to do the same thing over again. Atleast with SWTOR, you have a new (and possibly good or bad) Story to tide you over abit.
"Massive World" Some games having the massive seamless world is a great thing, some games can benefit from it greatly. Others cant, This all comes down to Lore. WoW is a world in a constant state of war on multiple fronts with multiple enemies. TSW is a World where bad shit is happening in select areas. The planet your on is also earth. If you were to correctly Code earth into the game it would take Days if not months in order to get anywhere. Lets not even think about the file size.
"stand there and swing my sword" i agree with how annoying this is. However less and less companies are actually doing this anymore.
The others well... i agree with being dumb responses. This also only really applies to Themepark, Sandbox plays by its own rules.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
I'm saying that people who want meaningful travel, forced grouping, death penalties, class unbalance, downtime, are a minority, even though I'm one of them,
Vanguard was an eye-opener for me, the first game after Everquest that had some unbalance in classes, that had a death penalty and meaningful travel.
What did half of the players do, whine non-stop to make it eaiser until developer caved right at launch
Even though every person knew going into Vanguard that it would involve having to walk long distances, still half of the playerbase whined.
Agreed!
U serious about EQNext?? You wan't see thousands of wow player posting on game like EQ, maybe some better title like TESO could be interesting for wow players but EQ arghhh...
Going to reply to a few posts all in one. I'm lazy
Yes, EQ did, but that was limited to 2 (out of 14) character classes (Wizards and Druids), which players had to "beg" the service from, and one teleportation ability to go wherever a player set their "soulbind" at (usually a major city). Dieing cost a player too much to use it as a fast travel option. Today's fast travel is simply clicking on a way point for a few copper or dieing. There is no interaction with other players (the multi-player part of MMO) involved, which is why I dislike fast travel today.@WhiteLantern: Yes, there are plenty of "MMOs today SUCK!" threads. And each and every one gets refuted by many, many posters. I think us "disgruntled" players have nothing to play in the MMO genre to keep us busy, so we post and moan here
Maybe things would quiet down if there was a MMORPG worth playing?
@Axehilt: I agree with your distinction between boring and fun. Since almost everyone defines these aspects differently, the majority wins. Many players find being lost the most terrible gameplay catastrophe while a few others make the most of it and find adventure. Many players cannot get enough of combat. If they fight every 25 yards, they are happy while a few others would like to be able to pick and choose a little more when they fight. Some players can spend hours decorating a home for their player to live in, in their online world, while many others find that the most boring and wasteful aspect of fun wondering why developers don't spend those resources on making more monsters to fight.
@Wraithone: I agree that a game like would sell millions
They already have 
@nariusseldon: Yes, I am a "bitter whiner" because players who never liked MMOROGs in the first place have taken away the virtual world because they find them boring and "un-fun." We have no replacement for them. Give me a game with a real virtual (can I use those two words in succession?) world and I'll quit complaining
I wonder what you'd think if your favorite Mystery genre books all of sudden went to Romance novels genre with very few Mystery books ever written by so-so writers...
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
EQ2 follows the WOW formula and was even changed to the effect after success of WOW. You make it sound as if EQ players are so drasticaly different from that of WOW players.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
I lost mine...in a tragic fishing accident....
Uhh... what?
I don't really mean "in my opinion" because I also wouldn't call Physical Torture in a game bad design "in my opinion", because there's a chance of somebody wanting that too. But I understand (a) the pysiological and psychological reasons players play games and (b) what games have done well over the last 25 years. So I can safely say it's bad game design without quantifying "in my opinion".
Non-gameplay, tedious travel is simply not why players choose to play games. They play games because their brains delight in learning, and games offer a huge spread of new patterns to solve. Tedious travel is therefore not very nutricious food for their brains to consume, because the patterns involved are minimal (and mostly revolve around learning how to avoid killing oneself on long, tedious trips; but another lesson they're capable of teaching is "don't enter into a long, tedious trip if another vacation destination is right at your doorstep!")
This is not about console vs. PC gaming. MMORPGs without a focus on fun are solitary games. They're alone amongst games designed fun-first.
They're even alone amongst MMORPGs, because the most successful MMORPGs are fun-first designs.
Overwhelmingly PC gaming is successful for the same fun-focused reasons as any other game, console or otherwise.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Absolutely.
Most people play whatever game interests them and they keep their mouth shut about it.
Unhappy people come here to complain because they have a need to infect other people with their unhappiness.
OCD people come here to start fights because, well...that's what OCD people do.
Teens (physically and mentally) come here to try and shock people with their words, mainly because their parents never really gave a shit when they tried to shock them with 666 tattooed on their foreheads and Aleister Crowley books strewn about their rooms. You can tell those people by their handles.
It all boils down to the fact that gaming forums are the trailer parks and meth houses of the genre.
It is fun watching (and sometimes pushing along) the train-wreck, however. :P
I want to play an MMORPG BUT.....
I want a game to be fun and challenging NOT tedious and time consuming.
I want options to the game..I want mini-games( gambling , racing, ect)
I want Large scale PVP instances (like AV)
I want it to be a simple affair to ignore people( not a big fan of MMORPG folk)
Seriously you made and knocked over a strawman. The features that many of the "hardcore" people want , I want no part of , even if it is free. Companies are trying to enlarge the Market place NOT appeal to their customer base. They are offering what features they THINK ultra casual gamers and NON-gamers want. They are also trying to get causals to use the parts of the game that traditionaly only hardcore players want to use, hence all the conviences. They are trying to change the casual into a hardcore player. They want everyone to be a dungeon crawler, a lover of tedium, a jumper of hoops.
My response to that is, if there is nothing you want to play, GO FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO DO! That's one thing that bugs me to no end, people who sit here with tens of thousands of posts, who would be better served by finding something else to do where they're actually having fun, instead of pretending that someone owes them an MMO to play.
Nobody does. Get over yourself.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
+1000
Says the guy who spends his time arguing with them. For what purpose - to derail any chance of an MMO made for someone other than himself?
Get over your own self.
It really is ridiculous. Realisticly we all want our own fun games. But nobody is being understanding to someone else for liking something different. The modern era gamers are no less hypocritical and jaded than the other side.
Earlier I pointed out this wasn't a console gamer vs. PC gamer issue. Seems like I have to take the time to point out that it's also not a Modern Gamer vs. Old Gamer issue.
See my earlier post though, as it's all the exact same reasons. Early PC games were played not because they hid fun behind needless timesinks and minimal gameplay, but because the gameplay itself was fun and worth playing. So older gamers wanted the exact same thing modern gamers want: a fun game that doesn't jerk them around.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Of course, I'm very clear that I don't play MMOs and I probably spend less than 10 minutes a day here if I'm really bored.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
If it means anything, I am a non-TV-owning vegetarian. Okay, that makes me some other insult instead, I get it.
(PS) OMG, you idiots actually pay $4.99 for a burger, over the pond? Here, we just kill a horse (apparently), mash it up and it's less than £2!
(PPS) I want to play an MMORPG but... find that the alpha/beta forums are so filled with people waving about the stamped IQ card of a tree stump that I don't bother.
Addendum: I'd much rather see my £2 galloping over some finish line or other, having never been whipped
Don't we all at least find fault with the games we play? Are we not allowed to express our feelings on them? Is this mmorpgFUCKINGSUNSHINEONLY.com?
Erm... what are you doing then? tens of thousands of posts? Man, you need a hobby.
Who says we're not all having fun? I'd make the utterly outrageous suggestion that those spreading love and peace, hate and bitchiness or just sarcasm and humour are all, in their own way, having fun.
And fwiw, anyone paying for, or investing time in, an MMO, deserves an MMO.
Take a look in the mirror some time. And get over that.
grrr. Pig is the sole reason I could revert. I think, from what I can gather, that is the general "veggie community" opinion too
MMO means different things to different people. For some it is simple as having an environment where people come together and enjoy themselves.
RPG also means different things to different people. For some people it is more literally about playing a role, for other it is more about the systems we are used to such as leveling up, gear progression, cusomization, talent trees etc...
When you throw those 2 together you have just about any combination of the above 2 you can imagination, and add to that all the bias from past experience with old school MMORPGs.("EQ was like this therefore all MMORPGs must be like this or they aren't MMORPGs" opinions)
Frankly I think there is room for all kinds of MMORPGs for all kinds of different gamers. From people who want hardcore death and corpse looting rules, to people who just want to log in have fun, make a little progress and talk to friends in an hour of free time.
grrr. Pig is the sole reason I could revert. I think, from what I can gather, that is the general "veggie community" opinion too
No "fake bacon" equivalent?
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