I just remembered: WAR had a thing where if you ran infront of someone for 5 seconds you would go through him. Isn't that ridiculous?
Only ridiculous in that you think it's relevant to the discussion of collision detection.
Of course it's relevant. You collide for 5 seconds but then you don't? How does that not completely destroy immersion?
OK you said "collide" now, before you said "in front of" -there's a difference.
Colliding and then passing through is a type of collision detection called "mud". It allows a slowdown and then a pass through an intersection. This is done for a reason, it's speed bumping. The "stone" CD method wouldn't let that happen at all. The "Water" method would make it completely fluid with no slow down, etc.
If you would pass through some one just because you were in front of them, that would simply be a client server glitch.
Those who tread with ill intent Beneath our sacred firmament, Whether of Hammer or of Tree, Albion's might shall strike at thee!
I just remembered: WAR had a thing where if you ran infront of someone for 5 seconds you would go through him. Isn't that ridiculous?
Only ridiculous in that you think it's relevant to the discussion of collision detection.
Of course it's relevant. You collide for 5 seconds but then you don't? How does that not completely destroy immersion?
OK you said "collide" now, before you said "in front of" -there's a difference.
Colliding and then passing through is a type of collision detection called "mud". It allows a slowdown and then a pass through an intersection. This is done for a reason, it's speed bumping. The "stone" CD method wouldn't let that happen at all. The "Water" method would make it completely fluid with no slow down, etc.
If you would pass through some one just because you were in front of them, that would simply be a client server glitch.
stone for enemies / mud for friendlies works for me
I don't know how this is going to be resolved, but if this game actually sees the light of day, and CD is in it, AND there's a race as small as lurikeens...we better be able to jump over them. It's been a dream of mine for a long time.
I don't know how this is going to be resolved, but if this game actually sees the light of day, and CD is in it, AND there's a race as small as lurikeens...we better be able to jump over them. It's been a dream of mine for a long time.
Nope lol....two keens will be able to stop a zerg at the front door.
I just remembered: WAR had a thing where if you ran infront of someone for 5 seconds you would go through him. Isn't that ridiculous?
Only ridiculous in that you think it's relevant to the discussion of collision detection.
Of course it's relevant. You collide for 5 seconds but then you don't? How does that not completely destroy immersion?
OK you said "collide" now, before you said "in front of" -there's a difference.
Colliding and then passing through is a type of collision detection called "mud". It allows a slowdown and then a pass through an intersection. This is done for a reason, it's speed bumping. The "stone" CD method wouldn't let that happen at all. The "Water" method would make it completely fluid with no slow down, etc.
If you would pass through some one just because you were in front of them, that would simply be a client server glitch.
stone for enemies / mud for friendlies works for me
I never had an issue with that in WAR. It seemed like a reasonable implementation of CD. Now how much that contributed to the lag problem is something only the people actually working on it can say.
If it can't be done properly, than don't do it... but if it will work, by all means implement it. It gives weight (sorry) to the choice of choosing a larger or smaller race-type. It adds some realism to the actual tactics of melee.
Now, maybe there is a certain 'player density' point where it should cut out or switch to a more simplified mechanic to optimize server response. Again, we won't know what the game is going to be able to handle yet. I doubt they even know what hardware they're going to be running this on at this point...
I would imagine there will not be collision detection when running into other player characters in this game for a number of reasons. Some which have already been mentioned in this thread. People have already stated they won't be playing this game if it has this type of CD, and I sadly would be put into that category. People wanting this type of CD will still play if it isn't implemented. So the obvious choice in my opinion is to choose against it if you are trying to get people to back your Kickstarter.
Personally I'm glad this was brought up. I feel like we need a concrete answer on this from Mr. Jacobs before the Kickstarter begins. I'd imagine he is following this thread or will be by Mon/Tues. It would be nice to hear what he has to say about it. To me this is a deal breaker. I personally don't want to be bumping into my friends or enemies in game. But CD should exist between you and ALL terrain. So any object can be used as line of sight.
I'm gonna suggest that MJ is in no position to be offering concrete answers to any questions like this. They are so far away from even a prototype game. They haven't even worked out a tech solution to rendering/lag issues for large scale combat yet.
I think at this point MJ is just splashing around ideas and intentions to generate discussion/hype/advertising for the KS.
I expect his answer would be similar marketing speak to the stealth question, "I'm aware of the division in the community over this subject, and part of me wants it in, part wants it out, I'm gonna come up with a new and effective way of doing it that makes everyone happy".
Would be happy and surprised if he did post a concrete answer.
Having CD doesn't make it not be DAoC style combat. Collision Detection is an environmental setting. It could be exactly like DAoC (I hope it isn't, personally) and still have CD.
Those who tread with ill intent Beneath our sacred firmament, Whether of Hammer or of Tree, Albion's might shall strike at thee!
Having CD doesn't make it not be DAoC style combat. Collision Detection is an environmental setting. It could be exactly like DAoC (I hope it isn't, personally) and still have CD.
Wait you didn't like DAoC's combat? This explains everything...
He's right, that poll has nothing to do with cd vs no cd. It was action vs tab target. As far as a reddit poll, why bring the topic here and not do a poll when you could run off at the mouth on reddit.
Anwyay planetside has no bearing on the conversation since it's a fucking fps which is mostly ranged combat. Not 200+ swinging axes at each other (which war couldn't do either mind you because the engine was trash). I'm wondering what game you guys have played that did CD right and could have a very large amount of people on the screen fighting in melee. I can't recall one myself.
Like I said before... bringing in CD brings other things with it, like kb,pull, and probably leaps. I hated all 3, and thought they were terrible. Which is my main beef with CD (other than knowing damn well a low budget game won't be able to handle it worth a damn but for the sake of arguement lets not focus on that).
This community finds a single topic weekly to be comletely divided upon and then magically hops to the next topic. It's like listening to people talk about politics. As interesting as it is, it's pretty humorous. 13 pages strong. We can easily break 20 on this one.
I'd love to see CD if it were implemented correctly, but honestly.. I'd rather CSE focus on developing amazingly smooth tab-target positional style combat that allows players to run through each other.
My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.
If people want daoc style combat You damn right that means no CD CD is something that would DRASTICALLY change the nature of combat and combat mechanics / strategy If the biggest success of daoc was those things and that is what is driving the creation of this game why bring in CD So annoying the only argument for CD is "it's more real" well omg it's a game nothing is real CD destroys the personal immersion in a game, not to mention it will never get done properly on the budget ( don't even think you can do it properly )
If daoc was such a success, maybe trust the players that played that game and they embody MJs "old school" design plan Pretty sure CD will kill the game, but that's IMHO
Having CD doesn't make it not be DAoC style combat. Collision Detection is an environmental setting. It could be exactly like DAoC (I hope it isn't, personally) and still have CD.
Wait you didn't like DAoC's combat? This explains everything...
Do I want CU's combat to be EXACTLY like DAoC's? Of course not, that would be stupid, games can support better systems now without being restricted by the same things a 12 year old game was saddled with: low bandwidth connections, lower processing power, restrictive engines, etc.
The interrupt code alone would be reason enough to make it different.
Those who tread with ill intent Beneath our sacred firmament, Whether of Hammer or of Tree, Albion's might shall strike at thee!
Age of Conan has CD, TSW has CD, but in SWTOR you walk through NPC like ghosts because of missing CD
only joke MMO don't have collision detection, it's immersion breaking and crappy
I guess DAoC was a joke MMO then, right? 11m people seem to like that joke of an MMO called WoW, too. Also I have never played Conan or TSW. But I have played SWTOR and I certainly had no problem with their system. I would have beeen pretty frustrated if things didn't work the way they do in that game.
WOW is a shitfest for PVP, who cares what bloody wow does its a raiders game, serious pvpers dont play the bloody thing.
no CD made sense in daoc, because back then everyone was on dial up and didnt have the bandwidth to pass the data back and forth, nowadays with everyone on broadband, you can do it, hell PS2 supports 2000 players per continent, with collision detection, bullet tracing and real time combat, because todays technology is capable of doing it.
I would say that serious PVPers avoid mmorpgs and play more pvp appropriate fps games.
FPS is a different genre than MMOs. It's like saying people who are serious fisherman only go out open ocean fishing, when obviously there are plenty of serious fisherman that hang out on rivers, lakes and ponds.
Yes it is different captaion obvious. When someone brings up the serious pvpers bullcrap, I have to tell them where to go with it. Sometimes they are not clever enough to know they were just told that.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Comments
OK you said "collide" now, before you said "in front of" -there's a difference.
Colliding and then passing through is a type of collision detection called "mud". It allows a slowdown and then a pass through an intersection. This is done for a reason, it's speed bumping. The "stone" CD method wouldn't let that happen at all. The "Water" method would make it completely fluid with no slow down, etc.
If you would pass through some one just because you were in front of them, that would simply be a client server glitch.
Those who tread with ill intent
Beneath our sacred firmament,
Whether of Hammer or of Tree,
Albion's might shall strike at thee!
actually thats exactly how to do it with friendly targets
it stops that mage running through his tank buddy so you can nail him
but it lets you pass greifers
stone for enemies / mud for friendlies works for me
I don't know how this is going to be resolved, but if this game actually sees the light of day, and CD is in it, AND there's a race as small as lurikeens...we better be able to jump over them. It's been a dream of mine for a long time.
Nope lol....two keens will be able to stop a zerg at the front door.
I never had an issue with that in WAR. It seemed like a reasonable implementation of CD. Now how much that contributed to the lag problem is something only the people actually working on it can say.
If it can't be done properly, than don't do it... but if it will work, by all means implement it. It gives weight (sorry) to the choice of choosing a larger or smaller race-type. It adds some realism to the actual tactics of melee.
Now, maybe there is a certain 'player density' point where it should cut out or switch to a more simplified mechanic to optimize server response. Again, we won't know what the game is going to be able to handle yet. I doubt they even know what hardware they're going to be running this on at this point...
What color is the sky in your universe?
Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival
RED IS DEAD!
Its like saying you can't have sandwiches without hats.
I'm gonna suggest that MJ is in no position to be offering concrete answers to any questions like this. They are so far away from even a prototype game. They haven't even worked out a tech solution to rendering/lag issues for large scale combat yet.
I think at this point MJ is just splashing around ideas and intentions to generate discussion/hype/advertising for the KS.
I expect his answer would be similar marketing speak to the stealth question, "I'm aware of the division in the community over this subject, and part of me wants it in, part wants it out, I'm gonna come up with a new and effective way of doing it that makes everyone happy".
Would be happy and surprised if he did post a concrete answer.
This is why I said make it a poll. It just becomes two groups of idiots telling each other they're wrong.
There is a poll up on reddit if you have an account. As of right now having CD is the most favored.
http://www.reddit.com/r/YesNo/comments/19xxdt/collision_detection_system_in_camelot_unchained/
We already had a poll: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5561495#5561495
Most people (70%) want DAoC-like combat = No CD
Having CD doesn't make it not be DAoC style combat. Collision Detection is an environmental setting. It could be exactly like DAoC (I hope it isn't, personally) and still have CD.
Those who tread with ill intent
Beneath our sacred firmament,
Whether of Hammer or of Tree,
Albion's might shall strike at thee!
Wait you didn't like DAoC's combat? This explains everything...
He's right, that poll has nothing to do with cd vs no cd. It was action vs tab target. As far as a reddit poll, why bring the topic here and not do a poll when you could run off at the mouth on reddit.
Anwyay planetside has no bearing on the conversation since it's a fucking fps which is mostly ranged combat. Not 200+ swinging axes at each other (which war couldn't do either mind you because the engine was trash). I'm wondering what game you guys have played that did CD right and could have a very large amount of people on the screen fighting in melee. I can't recall one myself.
Like I said before... bringing in CD brings other things with it, like kb,pull, and probably leaps. I hated all 3, and thought they were terrible. Which is my main beef with CD (other than knowing damn well a low budget game won't be able to handle it worth a damn but for the sake of arguement lets not focus on that).
/thread?
This community finds a single topic weekly to be comletely divided upon and then magically hops to the next topic. It's like listening to people talk about politics. As interesting as it is, it's pretty humorous. 13 pages strong. We can easily break 20 on this one.
I'd love to see CD if it were implemented correctly, but honestly.. I'd rather CSE focus on developing amazingly smooth tab-target positional style combat that allows players to run through each other.
You damn right that means no CD
CD is something that would DRASTICALLY change the nature of combat and combat mechanics / strategy
If the biggest success of daoc was those things and that is what is driving the creation of this game why bring in CD
So annoying the only argument for CD is "it's more real" well omg it's a game nothing is real
CD destroys the personal immersion in a game, not to mention it will never get done properly on the budget ( don't even think you can do it properly )
If daoc was such a success, maybe trust the players that played that game and they embody MJs "old school" design plan
Pretty sure CD will kill the game, but that's IMHO
Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked
It cannot be, because EA and mythic own the rights
He is a lawyer he isn't going to cause himself a lawsuit
But he can still follow all the successful combat mechanics from daoc , hence "old school mmo"
Ps it doesn't have CD
Ozek - DAOC
Niix - Other games that sucked
Neither is it WAR 2.
Do I want CU's combat to be EXACTLY like DAoC's? Of course not, that would be stupid, games can support better systems now without being restricted by the same things a 12 year old game was saddled with: low bandwidth connections, lower processing power, restrictive engines, etc.
The interrupt code alone would be reason enough to make it different.
Those who tread with ill intent
Beneath our sacred firmament,
Whether of Hammer or of Tree,
Albion's might shall strike at thee!
Yes it is different captaion obvious. When someone brings up the serious pvpers bullcrap, I have to tell them where to go with it. Sometimes they are not clever enough to know they were just told that.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"